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Melbourne archbishop says he'd go to jail than report child abuse heard in confession

R

ronaldthump

Member
L

Laevateinn

Member
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
well to be completely fair, i'm not surprised.

if everyone with a truly terrible confession went to jail for the confession, nobody would be stupid enough to confess

the knowledge would quickly be known, and the whole practice would fall apart.


In a perfect world, the church would publicly say this, but still feed breadcrumbs to the law at the very least...but i don't necessarily think they would be right or wrong for that, considering what the purpose of confession is supposed to be
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
Laevateinn said:
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
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A lawyer has a duty to report if they feel a crime is going to be committed, FYI.
 
M

Madame M

Banned
"allegations" of abuse in confession? I'm confused, how are they allegations when the confessors are telling them about the events straight from their mouths?
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Laevateinn said:
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
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da fuq? A priest has no legal bearing. They're no more special than talking to a stranger at a coffeehouse. Talking to a lawyer in confidence is a fundamental part of constructing a defence and is enshrined in the legal system.

What is wrong with you to prioritise religious traditions above stopping children being raped?
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
oh wait, a child is being sodomised raped by this monster.

so do you save his soul. or do you save the child.

or do you say nothing, and wait for him to come back and share his stories of how he again sinned letting the child get abused again and again and again.


100 hail maries for your sin.


Monsters.
 
A

abstract alien

Member
That's what he is supposed to do. Why would anyone be surprised at someone else actually doing their job? You don't have to agree with it, as I feel all religion is fucking ignorant/stupid, but that's what he signed up for.

Guy does what he says he will. Not everyone is a poser or liar.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Laevateinn said:
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
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Whilst I have some sympathy with this view looking at it another way, where is the line on being able to commit crime (which I guess this guy is doing if a prison sentence is on the cards) due to religious beliefs? Why should someone who does not share those religious beliefs tolerate flagrant law-breaking in the name of religion? Why should a religious person be able to get away with breaking laws when an atheist wouldn't? Isn't this similar to the argument about Muslims practising Sharia law in conflict with the laws of the land?

Logically, the only solution that is fair is the one we have which is man's laws supersedes god's law. People don't have to like it but they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions of they commit what are defined as crimes by the law of the land.
 
A

Agent Gibbs

Member
Priests are meant to absorb the sins of others, take the hit so to speak religiously, so I find it utterly abhorrent that in such a scenario the priest is concerned with his own holy spirit and sinning personally at the expense of the victim - I think the pope himself should clarify this and in his polite way tell priests abusing children is worse than breaking the communion
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
Geoff said:
Whilst I have some sympathy with this view looking at it another way, where is the line on being able to commit crime (which I guess this guy is doing if a prison sentence is on the cards) due to religious beliefs. Why should someone who does not share those religious beliefs tolerate flagrant law-breaking in the name of religion? Why should a religious person by able to get away with breaking laws when an atheist wouldn't? Isn't this similar to the argument about Muslims practising Sharia law in conflict with the laws of the land?

Logically, the only solution that is fair is the one we have which is man's laws supersedes god's law. People don't have to like it but they should be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions of they commit what are defined as crimes by the law of the land.
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they can repent in prison.
 
A

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
I'd argue the same boundaries of patient-therapist confidentiality should apply.
Which means the following exceptions should apply:

8.0. Child abuse cases. Even if a session is privileged originally, the privilege does not apply in child abuse cases. In most states, a mental health professional must report acts of suspected child abuse to law enforcement officials.

12.0. Crime or fraud. The privilege does not apply if the patient is using the session in furtherance of an ongoing or future crime or fraud. Discussions ofpastcrimes or wrongdoing are privileged, but not discussions of plans for future crimes or violence. In other words, much of what you see on "The Sopranos" would not be privileged.

12.1 Duty to warn. The famous 1976 case of Tarasoff v. Regents of Univ. of California established that when a therapist determines that a patient presents a serious danger of violence toward another person, the therapist must take reasonable steps to protect that person, including warning the victim and notifying the police.
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A

autumnleaf

Member
2382814.jpg
 
R

ronaldthump

Member
a lot of child abuse victims end up killing themselves. See: chester bennington.

that's considered an ultimate sin. Eternal damnation - if you believe the doctrine



so saving the soul of a child abuser is > than the soul of an innocent?


this is why I'm an athetist. religion is fucked.
 
J

Jackpot

Banned
Mousnis said:
Isn't that how confessions are supposed to work?

Blame stupid religion rules.
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How about blame the people who choose to slavishly follow these stupid religion rules, and use their position to advocate others do too? Y'know, like the archbishop is doing.
 
B

Billiam268

Neo Member
Not that shocking, if I were him and I genuinely believed I'd go to hell or whatever for breaking some religious rule or oath I think I'd much rather choose some time in prison over acting against god.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Laevateinn said:
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
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Psychiatrists have to report if someone tells something like this. Why should priests not? Lawyers make sense if you're defending someone though it's scummy as hell unless they tell their client they should confess even if hey decide not to.
 
S

Stop It

Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
I'd love to hear his confession after this.

"I could have saved children from shocking abuse but instead done nothing in order to honour my vows to the church, please forgive me Jesus".

Fucking hell.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
No one would go to confession if they knew the priest was going to tell. You don't have to like it or like religion in general but this isn't surprising or even note worthy.
 
M

MooseKnuckles

Banned
The Catholic Church has never put the rights of victims first, so I can't imagine why they'd start now.

But for a bit more context, the reason this has come up is because there has been a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sex Abuse in Australia that has been gathering information for the last few years. One of the recommendations they are set to make in their final report is that it should be a crime for clergy to fail to report abuse they find out about through confession.
 
M

Madame M

Banned
Billiam268 said:
Not that shocking, if I were him and I genuinely believed I'd go to hell or whatever for breaking some religious rule or oath I think I'd much rather choose some time in prison over acting against god.
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God forgives sins in Christianity though, surely he would forgive the "sin" of reporting child molesters to the authorities.
 
A

Alienous

Member
This should be his public stance, as he anonymously sends tips to the police. Hopefully, hopefully that's the case.

If you can just stomach hearing about child abuse and do nothing you certainly aren't a representative of any God.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Australia's history of catholic child abuse is really high which makes this even worse.
 
T

theWB27

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
No one would go to confession if they knew the priest was going to tell. You don't have to like it or like religion in general but this isn't surprising or even note worthy.
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It's pretty noteworthy that religion comes before the well being of children. No matter how much you know about it. I'd love for this to be put on blast more...keeping this ish a secret is why they're able to get away with what they do now.

Why the hell is it so hard for people to be against something without rationalizing it.
 
Z

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
"Forgive me father but I burned a church to the ground last week"

"Ah don't worry, our Lord is a merciful God. Say five Hail Marys and you shall be forgiven."

"Oh and I'm coming back here on Sunday armed to the teeth and I'm going to murder you and the entire congregation"

"Well, there's absolutely nothing I can do about that so make that a dozen Hail Marys and a Rosary. Go in peace my son and I'll see you this weekend."

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

Alienous said:
This should be his public stance, as he anonymously sends tips to the police. Hopefully, hopefully that's the case.

If you can just stomach hearing about child abuse and do nothing you certainly aren't a representative of any God.
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I would like this to be the case but given the overwhelming number of stories of child abuse coming out of churches, madrasas and other places of religious worship I would be shocked if that is what was happening here.

The reputation/honour of the religion takes precedence over the safety of the children they are meant to be protecting.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Gotdatmoney said:
No one would go to confession if they knew the priest was going to tell. You don't have to like it or like religion in general but this isn't surprising or even note worthy.
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There's a difference to "I cheated on my wife last week", which should not land you in jail and "I'm going to molest someone's child next week". If you were going to do something super illegal, it would be stupid to tell even one person about it if you don't want to get caught.
 
C

Cmerrill

You don't need to be empathetic towards me.
Laevateinn said:
I hate religion as much as the next guy but a lawyer or a priest should not be compelled to divulge things that have been confessed to them. I'd hope he would do what he can to encourage the person to come forward himself though.
Click to expand...

Wtf is wrong with you?

So if a priest has knowledge a child is being abused, sexually etc. You think the perp should just be encouraged to come forward? Because the abuser has already shown such empathy for their victim that now that a priest said so, they should probably feel bad and turn themself in.

The priest or any person with knowledge of abuse has a moral obligation(and legal?)to help that child, or you're a piece of shit and no better than the abuser. IMO.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
theWB27 said:
It's pretty noteworthy that religion comes before the well being of children.
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I dunno what religions you have followed or what holy books you have read but no it really isn't. There are examples in the bible that very literally have God put above children.

No matter how much you know about it. I'd love for this to be put on blast more...keeping this ish a secret is why they're able to get away with what they do now.
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I don't feel like this is a secret. Whether they are put on blast for it is a different story but none of this story or this stance is inconsistent with the church's position

Why the hell is it so hard for people to be against something without rationalizing it.
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Shrug. I think this is dumb personally speaking but I'm not a religious person. But if you dedicate your life to a religion and upholding it's teachings then I am not surprised that this is the stance. Issues should be taken with religious exemptions. But as long as society will put relgion on it's own special plane I dont see why this would shock people.
 
E

EGM1966

Member
He's as wrong as anyone following rules they shouldn't in thinking this. The principle is fine but every principle has realistic exceptions and this would be one of them.
 
Amibguous Cad

Amibguous Cad

Member
Jackpot said:
da fuq? A priest has no legal bearing. They're no more special than talking to a stranger at a coffeehouse. Talking to a lawyer in confidence is a fundamental part of constructing a defence and is enshrined in the legal system.

What is wrong with you to prioritise religious traditions above stopping children being raped?
Click to expand...

Not true, in the United States.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest–penitent_privilege

Anyway, if you undermine that privilege no one comes to confession for serious crimes. That means that in the long run you get no information from priests about serious crimes and you've undermined a sacrament that's important to a lot of people. This atheist doesn't have a problem with it.

I really hope you guys are more accepting of attorney-client or doctor-patient privilege, but I'm not optimistic.
 
G

Gotdatmoney

Member
Daedardus said:
There's a difference to "I cheated on my wife last week", which should not land you in jail and "I'm going to molest someone's child next week". If you were going to do something super illegal, it would be stupid to tell even one person about it if you don't want to get caught.
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I agree there is a difference but that's looking at it from a none religious stand point. Some deeply religious people hold tge words said in confessions very seriously amd as such are not going to want to share if they don't believe in confidentiality.

Geoff said:
Why would a non-christian give two fucks about that if it meant saving children from abuse?
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I mean duh. That's not what I said. I said I don't find this surprising based on the religious point of confession. People seemed shocked about the position but I am not. That's not the samw as agreeing with it

Phu said:
I don't give a fuck if people go to confession or not.
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Neither do I. For reference no I don't think communications with God should be above the law because religion is a choice and it shouldn't exempt you from the rules and responsibilities of living in a society.
 
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