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1up Writer Pens a Love Letter to the Second Best Game of '07

ethelred

Member
Apologies to Jeremy for posting mostly the whole thing, but frankly, it's a pretty awesome write-up of an excellent game and hopefully more people will read it this way.

Here's a link back to his article (which is still worth a look as it has pretty pictures!): http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8584178&publicUserId=5379721

Jeremy Parish said:
2007 was the year in which I finally extricated myself from the JRPG blinkers I'd been wearing for a decade and reminded myself why western role-playing games were so popular back in the day. Mass Effect's sci-fi patina helped quite a bit, since I still find the high fantasy settings most western RPGS use to be agonizingly uninteresting. (Yes, I know... except for Fallout and Planescape -- they're on my list.) But I took baby steps first, beginning with Final Fantasy XII, an inspired mash-up of many opposites, including Western and Japanese design sensibilities. But the true hero was a game that most people didn't even notice, and even fewer liked.

But those who like it, love it. That game, of course, is:

Etrian Odyssey
Atlus | Nintendo DS | RPG

In metaphorical musical terms, Etrian Odyssey is a Beatles tribute band. Yeah, a few of the Beatles are still around, but they're more or less self-parodies at this point. But this group gets back to the spirit of their original, groundbreaking recordings, reproduces them flawlessly, and throws in a few neat studio tricks to make those old tunes feel relevant and modern again.

Etrian Odyssey is a pretty incredible game, really. Incredible, because it means someone said, "Wouldn't it be awesome to create an RPG that blows off 25 years of genre evolution and basically recaptures the core gameplay of the old Wizardry PC games?" Incredible because someone green-lighted it. Incredible because an American publisher said, "We should bring this indescribably niche game to Americans!" And most incredible of all? The fact that it all worked out beautifully.

Etrian Odyssey ("Yggdrasil Labyrinth" in Japan, and presumably changed for the U.S. because it arrived right on the heels of Atlus' Yggdra Union) is unapologetically limited in scope, unabashedly geared toward hardcore gamers, unrelentingly difficult, and unrepentantly addictive. Although its gameplay is wholly based on exploration punctuated by random encounters, it strikes a very deliberate balance and pacing. It's a slow game, but not because you move at a pokey pace, or because random counters happen every few steps. On the contrary, you cruise through the labyrinth pretty quickly, and enemy attacks are measured in their frequency. In fact, you can generally predict when each new encounter will happen thanks to a simple threat indicator in the corner of the screen -- it slowly transitions from green to red, giving you plenty of time to brace yourself, heal up and prepare.

No, the deliberate nature of Etrian Odyssey comes in its character advancement. Level-ups aren't handed out like candy as they are in most JRPGs; you have to fight through quite a few battles to reach your next experience level. But those advances mean a lot -- nothing so dramatic as Tactics Ogre, where a single level is the difference between "overwhelmed" and "overpowered," but nevertheless significant, because each new level grants a few skill points that allow your warriors to boost their stats, skills and specializations.

As with all the best RPGs, Etrian's strength is the sense of ownership it gives you. It has no real story to speak of, so instead the role-playing element takes the guise of character-building. Each player's party is radically different than the next's; one might choose to go with a fairly standard spread of classes and min-max each warrior's abilities to balance one another's weaknesses, while another might go with an unconventional crew of largely defensive front-row characters and a back row emphasizing buffs and debuffs. Or the "battle medic," a healer whose makes use of the class' hidden potential for advanced offensive skills. Or whatever. You even get to choose from four different cosmetic variants per class -- which isn't as superfluous as you might think, since your party of five is drawn from a guild that can consist of quite a few potential participants. A popular strategy in the early going is to create a team of rangers specializing in resource hunting whose role is to do nothing more than venture to a gathering point near the entrance to the labyrinth and collect salable goods. And while classes whose trade is primarily in status effects aren't much good in the first few strata, where raw survival is the most important consideration, they're indispensable further along.

In other words, Etrian Odyssey offers plenty of strategic options -- but whatever strategy you choose, you'd better make damn good use of it.

That's nice and all, but ultimately there are two factors that keep Etrian from being a mere dungeon hack. The first is the deadly F.O.E. -- no mere random encounter, F.O.E.s are incredibly powerful monsters that lurk at specific points on the map, roaming and patrolling and often reacting to the party's presence with swift violence. You can see them on the map, and in fact you can see them in the 3D exploration view as well, although at that point you're likely doomed. Taking down F.O.E.s becomes progressively more challenging as the game advances, especially once they begin operating in tandem. Oh, and it's always a good idea to make sure your random encounter meter is low when a F.O.E. is around since F.O.E.s move a space on the map for every round of combat... and often right toward the party. Nothing is worse than a random fight against fairly low-level creatures that turns into a desperate fight for survival because you didn't finish quickly enough and a F.O.E. joined the battle. Reaching a new level of the labyrinth is a satisfying experience, sure, but besting all the F.O.E.s in that floor is when you know you've really made it.

Secondly, and most importantly in my book, is the mapping system. Someone at Atlus had the brilliant inspiration to use the DS's bottom screen as virtual graph paper, transporting us back to the days when video games were grids and no serious player went on an adventure without a stack of graph paper by his side. Back in the NES days, I had a ream of maps -- screen-by-screen breakdowns of Metroid, The Goonies II, The Guardian Legend -- and Etrian captured that fantastic sense of progress by minimizing the scope of the automap and forcing players to mark out the details themselves. It might seem a small thing, but watching as your empty grid becomes 25 "sheets" of fully-detailed dungeon layouts gives the adventure a sense of fulfillment that even a poweful party of high-level warriors can't match.

My only regret is that the whole "objectivity" thing meant I couldn't review it myself. (The lead localization editor is a good friend and former roommate, so you can see the potential for conflict of interest, no?) EGM gave it a wildly varied spread of scores (ranging from 4.0 to 8.0, I think). And that's fair, because Etrian definitely is a love-it-or-hate kind of thing. But it meant I didn't really have a venue for commenting about the game until now, when it's pretty much sold out everywhere and my comments do nothing to help it. But hey, at least there's the sequel to look forward to, right?
 
I tried to get into this game, I really did, but I just could not love it. Or, if I was to put that in the context of Parish's write-up...

It's not you, it me!
 

Prax

Member
This really makes me want to finish off the bonus dungeons...
But it's really daunting to think about the grind ahead and having to retire a bunch of characters too!
 

Rolf NB

Member
I feel coincidenced uncannily. I may have to drink water.
Basically, I agree with most of what he wrote there. I already did twelve hours ago. It's a bit weird.
 

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
Vyse The Legend said:
Too bad this game is impossible to find. I guess I'll wait for Etrian Odyssey 2.

Found the game in 10 seconds for $40 online...
 
I just started playing and it is fun for the most part. The only problem I have is that the progression feels so slow. I have gone back and forth between the 1st and 5th floors more times than I can remember. The high encounter rate and slow battle animations don't really help much.

I wouldn't mind if I felt like I was making some real progress, but instead I just feel like I am wasting time traversing the same floors. Hopefully it opens up a little more after the 5th floor. It would be great if I never have to see the 1st - 4th floors ever again.
 

LegatoB

Member
Schopenhauer said:
I just started playing and it is fun for the most part. The only problem I have is that the progression feels so slow. I have gone back and forth between the 1st and 5th floors more times than I can remember. The high encounter rate and slow battle animations don't really help much.

I wouldn't mind if I felt like I was making some real progress, but instead I just feel like I am wasting time traversing the same floors. Hopefully it opens up a little more after the 5th floor. It would be great if I never have to see the 1st - 4th floors ever again.
Remember that as you're going through the first stratum you can periodically run into friendly plot characters who will heal you. You can hang around them while you're levelling or mapping the area so you don't have to do nearly as much warp wiring and backtracking through all the past floors. And once you beat the B5F boss, you'll gain access to the first Geomagnetic Field (permanent portal to and from town), so it'll become much easier to do any sidequests left in the first stratum and you won't have to fight your way down to progress further.
 

Jenga

Banned
:/ My local Gamestop didn't have it in stock. Is this the sort of game I should go down to Gamestop and bug the employees about every day? I love Rouge-likes btw.
 

NichM

Banned
Schopenhauer said:
I just started playing and it is fun for the most part. The only problem I have is that the progression feels so slow. I have gone back and forth between the 1st and 5th floors more times than I can remember. The high encounter rate and slow battle animations don't really help much.

I wouldn't mind if I felt like I was making some real progress, but instead I just feel like I am wasting time traversing the same floors. Hopefully it opens up a little more after the 5th floor. It would be great if I never have to see the 1st - 4th floors ever again.

You won't have to, since there'll be a warp point from the dungeon entrance to the 6th floor and every 5th floor after that. However, some secret areas in the first stratum open up after you beat the 5th floor boss, so it might be worth exploring some more.

Jenga said:
:/ My local Gamestop didn't have it in stock. Is this the sort of game I should go down to Gamestop and bug the employees about every day? I love Rouge-likes btw.

I don't think that would do either you or them any good. You're better off looking around online. (Also, it's not a roguelike.)
 
it's true too.
:applause:

nice write-up and love letter.

If I could change only one thing about the game it would be to have the enemies and spells animate during battle (like Dragon Quest IV and VII on PSX)

but even with what it is it's still amazing.
I hope one day we see a DS MegaTen game because of this.
 

Jenga

Banned
NichM said:
I don't think that would do either you or them any good. You're better off looking around online. (Also, it's not a roguelike.)
Eh, just using roguelike as an example as I've heard people compare the game to it. Also, the first-person dungeon roaming is fine with me. It's supposed to be like Phantasy Star I in that regard right?
 
My own personal GOTY. A fantastic game that's definitely worthy of attention, but unfortunately maligned due to its intrinsic nature. That's a great write-up too, and I have to give him +1 hardcore points for comparing the difference in levels to that of TO.
 

Fewr

Member
I would have liked a "memory cursor" or a "repeat actions in last turn" button, otherwise it's a really really good game.
 
Jenga said:
:/ My local Gamestop didn't have it in stock. Is this the sort of game I should go down to Gamestop and bug the employees about every day? I love Rouge-likes btw.
It's not a rogue-like, more similar to Eye of the Beholder or Wizardry rather.
 

NichM

Banned
Fewr said:
I would have liked a "memory cursor" or a "repeat actions in last turn" button, otherwise it's a really really good game.

I thought it had this as an option? I know whenever I held the A button down after inputting commands in one turn, it would do the same thing next time.
 
Fewr said:
I would have liked a "memory cursor" or a "repeat actions in last turn" button, otherwise it's a really really good game.
It does have this feature. Do you mean saving inputs from battle to battle?
 

Fewr

Member
NichM said:
I thought it had this as an option? I know whenever I held the A button down after inputting commands in one turn, it would do the same thing next time.
Hmm.. you may be right, I would go check that but someone stole my copy recently :( .
 

lastendconductor

Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
It is indeed a great game. At first I was not very impressed and it felt mediocre and too hard to me, but gaf continued praise made me give it a second chance. After a very rough start and some hours of extreme grindage, I got a grip on the mechanics and everything ran smoothly from there.

Awesome atmosphere, style and sense of exploration, no bloated ridiculous story\dialogue (just enough to keep it from feeling pointless), excellent and fast battle system, GREAT soundtrack (Koshiro ftw)... there's lot of praise to be given to this game. Just play it.

On the other hand, I must admit that the game is not perfect as there are quite a good share of flaws. For example, off the top of my head; the quests usually suck with their shitty rewards and confusing directions, wading through floors that you've already beaten can become a super tedious task because of the encounter rate, and sometimes the areas feel just too repetitive.
Also, I don't think this game is for everyone... it's somewhat of an acquired taste.

I'm quite hyped for EO2 actually.
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
I still can't believe how awesome the game turned out.

I remember gobbling up the little tidbits of information as they were released from Japanese sources, but I never dared to hope that this game would truly bring back and modernize the classic gameplay I craved so much.

It completely exceeded my expectations.
 

alisdair

Member
Is there anywhere I can buy my own copy of this online, new and shipped to the UK? As far as I can see, none of the usual importers have copies. I've tried eBay a couple of times but I hate supporting the second-hand market.
 

bababa

Member
I'm not quite sure it's worthy of a love letter, but it is a fun game. But please, don't make me draw my own map. Map notes, good idea. Drawing every single wall in a map-based dungeon crawler, bad idea. There is just no advantage to making the player draw every detail of the map on his own. Too bad it seems the same system is in the sequel.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
This game is so amazing. Has the old-school design that is so endearing and everlasting with new-school niceties and presentation.
 

larvi

Member
You don't have to draw the map if you don't want to. I've gotten through no problem without drawing the walls. I do usually put the doors and some of the special spots but that's pretty much it, it maps each floor tile as you step on it so you don't need to do that.
 

ethelred

Member
bababa said:
But please, don't make me draw my own map. Map notes, good idea. Drawing every single wall in a map-based dungeon crawler, bad idea. There is just no advantage to making the player draw every detail of the map on his own. Too bad it seems the same system is in the sequel.

No, I'm with Parish here. The cartography is one of the best and freshest elements of the game. I really loved creating my maps and being able to customize it with incredible amounts of detail. The feeling of accomplishment after I had completely explored a floor and mastered its secrets and placed all the icons to indicate every little thing... was something that really helped make the game for me. It made the exploration so much more rewarding. I had a complete map that I had risked life and limb for (especially on early floors where you're running like a bat out of hell from stalkers) and I made it, I owned it; it felt much more.

I'm delighted they're not only including cartography in the next game, but also expanding it. I want to see it in every first person dungeon crawler ever from this point on. Atlus revolutionized the genre.
 

bababa

Member
ethelred said:
No, I'm with Parish here. The cartography is one of the best and freshest elements of the game. I really loved creating my maps and being able to customize it with incredible amounts of detail. The feeling of accomplishment after I had completely explored a floor and mastered its secrets and placed all the icons to indicate every little thing... was something that really helped make the game for me. It made the exploration so much more rewarding. I had a complete map that I had risked life and limb for (especially on early floors where you're running like a bat out of hell from stalkers) and I made it, I owned it; it felt much more.

I'm delighted they're not only including cartography in the next game, but also expanding it. I want to see it in every first person dungeon crawler ever from this point on. Atlus revolutionized the genre.

Right, but do you need to draw every single wall yourself? I said in my post that the map notes are a good thing...being able to annotate the map...whatever...but drawing all the walls is just annoying and gets very tedious. I know there's a wall there...why must I draw it myself? Draw the walls and tiles, and give me the ability to customize...that's all.

As for not "having" to draw the map...I need to be able to know where to go, where I've been, where to go back to, etc...I do need the walls drawn.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
I've played through the first mission and a few side mission ones and it seems sort of uneventful so far. What is there that should be exciting me? Much more interesting things to come or if I don't like it at this point will I pretty much not like it in the long term?
 

lastendconductor

Put your snobby liquids into my mouth!
Tiktaalik said:
I've played through the first mission and a few side mission ones and it seems sort of uneventful so far. What is there that should be exciting me? Much more interesting things to come or if I don't like it at this point will I pretty much not like it in the long term?
IMO the main attraction of the game is the exploration per-se. If you don't like that kind of thing, well, the game may not be for you. Yes there are events, but they're are few and mostly excuses to keep you advancing, although for me some of them had much more impact precisely because they are so scarce.
 
Picked EO up after the New Years, other wise it would have made my list for sure. It combines some of my favorite things: map-making, graph paper and hardcore rpg's.

TFrog's right on.
 
Jeremy's article convinced me to finally order this game, so he was successful in that respect. :D

This game is ridiculously hard to find, though. I've seen it in B&M once, eBay has a few copies selling for $40+, and most online retailers are totally out of stock.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
DKnight said:
IMO the main attraction of the game is the exploration per-se. If you don't like that kind of thing, well, the game may not be for you. Yes there are events, but they're are few and mostly excuses to keep you advancing, although for me some of them had much more impact precisely because they are so scarce.


I'm certainly going to keep playing some more, I don't think I've played enough yet to form a solid opinion. The only reason I stopped was because I started playing Advance Wars Dual Strike around the same time and that one really grabbed me.
 
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