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Question about jesus origin story

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R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
So first off this isn't suppose to be a religion vs atheism or anything like that thread, I was just re-watching Bil Maher's documentary Religulous, and he brings up the point about how there are a variety of different diety stories that are either exactly the same, or very similar to the Jesus Christ story, that came before the Jesus story. I was wondering if anyone knows more about this? Also I'm curious how the church reconciles this point.
 
K

Kalnos

Banned
There are a ton but I think they're talking about Horus.

As to how the church reconciles the point... probably just try to point to historic proof that Jesus actually existed (though that's sketchy in and of itself).
 
L

Lucky Forward

Member
comparisonjesusotherschart.jpg
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Kalnos said:
As to how the church reconciles the point... probably just try to point to historic proof that Jesus actually existed (though that's sketchy in and of itself).
Click to expand...

Yea, I grew up in a religious household, and this was never brought up, and if I had heard it at the time it would have made me really question things. Just seems like a retread of an old story.
 
M

milanbaros

Member?
Well I think 2 of the gospels tell the story of the virgin birth and wise men and such but they are not considered part of the historical jesus by anyone but the strictest believers of the bible.
 
Z

Zzoram

Member
A lot of religions used to steal ideas and stories from each other and just adapt them for their particular situation. Nothing new about that.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
BuddhaRockstar said:
From the documentary, "The God Who Wasn't There":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFsmmMTMCHU&feature=player_detailpage#t=1351s

(Overall not a great documentary, but this part in particular provides some answers for the OPs questions, the main being that the church doesn't have to explain it because no one knows about any of these previous origin stories)
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll check it out for sure, and that point is very true, like I said I didn't really have any idea until I saw this Bill Maher documentary, and religion was a huge part of the majority of my life so far.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
Red_Man said:
So first off this isn't suppose to be a religion vs atheism or anything like that thread, I was just re-watching Bil Maher's documentary Religulous, and he brings up the point about how there are a variety of different diety stories that are either exactly the same, or very similar to the Jesus Christ story, that came before the Jesus story. I was wondering if anyone knows more about this? Also I'm curious how the church reconciles this point.
Click to expand...

You can start with this.

It's a rebuttal to the first section of the film Zeitgeist, which Maher appears to ape in his movie.
 
Eteric Rice

Eteric Rice

Member
Yup, part of the religious arms race.

Gods used to be a local thing. Then they became Gods of ice and thunder. Then all seeing, all knowing, etc.

Religions just trying to out do one another.
 
D

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
From that chart it looks like Jesus is a compendium of all other ones.

Like a final boss with all their attacks.
 
Y

ymmv

Banned
Zzoram said:
A lot of religions used to steal ideas and stories from each other and just adapt them for their particular situation. Nothing new about that.
Click to expand...

That's how the Islam and the Mormon Church got started.
 
R

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Just watched that video, and yea seems the church just claims satans screwing with people.....huh interesting explanation, guess it's the same as the dinosaur bone conundrum.
 
T

Tron 2.0

Member
ymmv said:
That's how the Islam and the Mormon Church got started.
Click to expand...
That's how most religions got started.

JohnTuk said:
Did Bioware make a Jesus game when I wasn't looking?
Click to expand...
I was going to photoshop something discussed earlier this week on the Gaming side, but decided it wasn't worth the potential wrath.
 
M

MrHicks

Banned
Red_Man said:
Yea, I grew up in a religious household, and this was never brought up, and if I had heard it at the time it would have made me really question things. Just seems like a retread of an old story.
Click to expand...

so is the flood story and noah
comes from a sumerian myth if i recall

bible is a combination of dozens of pagan beliefs/traditions and ancient religion ripoffs
 
tfur

tfur

Member
Lucky Forward said:
comparisonjesusotherschart.jpg
Click to expand...
Quite a few inaccuracies in this chart. Some of the entries are simply not present in the stories/myths.

I imagine that's why the chart does not include sources.
 
Z

Zeth

Member
milanbaros said:
Well I think 2 of the gospels tell the story of the virgin birth and wise men and such but they are not considered part of the historical jesus by anyone but the strictest believers of the bible.
Click to expand...
virgin birth. only the strictest believers. you sure about that? thought it was pretty central to christianity.
 
C

Chichikov

Member
Red_Man said:
So first off this isn't suppose to be a religion vs atheism or anything like that thread, I was just re-watching Bil Maher's documentary Religulous, and he brings up the point about how there are a variety of different diety stories that are either exactly the same, or very similar to the Jesus Christ story, that came before the Jesus story. I was wondering if anyone knows more about this? Also I'm curious how the church reconciles this point.
Click to expand...
Elijah, Elisha and to a lesser degree Moses all had similar stories to Jesus and perfomed similar miracles.
In mainstream biblical criticism, Elisha is considered the most likely candidate to be the original.
 
E

Escape Goat

Member
Chichikov said:
Elijah, Elisha and to a lesser degree Moses all had similar stories to Jesus and perfomed similar miracles.
In mainstream biblical criticism, Elisha is considered the most likely candidate to be the original.
Click to expand...

I find your post threatening to my world view and choose to ignore it.
 
C

C.Dark.DN

Banned
BuddhaRockstar said:
From the documentary, "The God Who Wasn't There":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFsmmMTMCHU&feature=player_detailpage#t=1351s

(Overall not a great documentary, but this part in particular provides some answers for the OPs questions, the main being that the church doesn't have to explain it because no one knows about any of these previous origin stories)
Click to expand...
Right after the answer to his question, the whole "Christian's today are obsessed about blood sacrifice" because of Mel Gibson's movie and the amount of money it made is stupid. A lot of non-Christan's went to see it. Gore is all over film industry in general, it's not surprising to push what he did for shock value.
 
M

MorisUkunRasik

Member
Zeth said:
virgin birth. only the strictest believers. you sure about that? thought it was pretty central to christianity.
Click to expand...


Yea virgin birth is huge to a lot of people. Hell, Mary has a pretty big presence in Catholicism.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
MrHicks said:
gilgamesh story exactly how did i forget
do most christians just not know this stuff or what???

boggles the mind
Click to expand...
Belief isn't rational. In other words you can explain away anything with the right amount.
 
A

Aika'svyse

Banned
Dont feel like finding it ,but theres a video that debunks the whole Jesus horus comparison. showing that the 2 are nothing alike.
 
T

Tron 2.0

Member
HammerOfThor said:
What does the "reign for 1000 years" refer to?
Click to expand...
The Apocalypse, I believe. Or, I guess, after the Rapture.

Reigns for 1,000 years before the final battle with Satan and his followers.

I was raised Jewish so someone jump in if I fucked that all up.
 
J

jaxword

Member
DeathNote said:
Right after the answer to his question, the whole "Christian's today are obsessed about blood sacrifice" because of Mel Gibson's movie and the amount of money it made is stupid.
Click to expand...

I think it's a sign of the changing attitudes towards religion and the martyr complex that is increasing. You've seen this, an example would be claiming persecution at the slightest dissent from the religious belief, regardless if it's related to the debate.
 
D

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Lucky Forward said:
comparisonjesusotherschart.jpg
Click to expand...
Well I guess that's a possible answer for the TC's question right here. Some deity stories have similarities with the Jesus story but none of them are exactly the same. As someone said above he's like the "final boss" of religion, sorta.
 
A

Air

Banned
I was reading a thread on something awful by a biblical historian. It was a pretty good read, and at one point they address the Zeitgeist, Jesus/Mithra story. I believe they concluded that it was bunk. You can make up your mind for yourself though. Here is the direct quote:

bringer posted:

How about Mithra-cists? It's hard to argue that Jesus existed, or didn't. There's not a lot of actual evidence either way and the Jesus mythos borrow heavily from Mithra, who had a several hundred year head start. It makes sense that a new religion would have a leader but that leads to my next question:


Yes, but this just really isn't true. There just simply isn't any evidence for most of the parallels that have been drawn between Mithras and Jesus - for instance the idea that Mithras had 12 disciples or was born of a virgin. Besides, why would the inheritors of Jewish and / or Hellensitic philosophy (which all the early Christians were) look to an esoteric Persian mystery cult to furnish their mythology? If you want to trace the foundations of Christian belief then there are extremely obvious antecedents in the Jewish and Hellenistic philosophies, that have long been known to scholars and which provide good explanations for the nature and trajectory of Christian theology. These Mithras / Horus connections make absolutely no sense in the social context from which Christianity emerged.
Click to expand...

Here is the thread:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3381676&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

EDIT: its a pretty good thread, and you should read through all of it.
 
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