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Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 06:55 AM)
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E-mails just got sent out to "top DMC players" especially based in the UK area. Here's the e-mail:

Originally Posted by Ninja Theory

Hi,

Im part of the team currently developing the new Devil May Cry title at Ninja Theory and I wanted to get in touch to see if youd like to come in and play the game. Essentially Im inviting in a very select few really top end DMC players to come and play through a section of the game and talk to some of our team about your experience.

Well pay for travel to and from the studio and will also provide lunch.

Let me know if this sounds of interest and I can give you some more details.

Cheers

XXXXXX

One of my known DMC contacts received one as well and he's based in the UK. This probably went out to DMC players especially UK based who are basically known DMC veterans (trust me on this the guy who got this was pretty big into the DMC3 scene).

This is HUGE NEWS for DmC as it shows that they actually want feedback from top DMC players and it shows that the game is actually being fine tuned for high level DMC play. Some of the people who may receive the e-mail might not be able to go for the test (like myself) but others might and that's why I posted this thread.

So yeah.... good job to Ninja Theory on this. This is exactly the type of feedback that made DMC3 godlike which was feedback from top players. LHK would be proud although I don't even think he can go because he isn't UK based either.

Also someone please translate this page as well as it contains new DmC information:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201111/04005054.html
confused
Banned
(11-08-2011, 06:55 AM)
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That'll end well......
Coxy
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(11-08-2011, 06:56 AM)
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wear a megaman costume =)
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 06:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Coxy

wear a megaman costume =)

I don't think Ninja Theory is concerned about MM either way.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 06:57 AM)
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Good on them for doing this. Considering how technical and in depth players can get in the combat system with the previous games, the fans and top level players can be a valuable asset to them in getting the combat where it needs to be.
Beth Cyra
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(11-08-2011, 06:57 AM)
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As I said in the other thread, this is great, however this does nothing to hype me up because this frankly does nothing to my two biggest issues.

Even if people Dahbomb help tighten up the combat, it still going to be stuck in UE3 and even if you are telling them in person it's not needed to know they need to try and get it locked at 30 and frankly while I wish all of you who go and do this the best of luck I see no reason to believe that this will do anything to help with the engine problems or even the combat engine.
Takao
Hello friend!
Have you heard the good news about Medabots?!
(11-08-2011, 06:58 AM)
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There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?
Monocle
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(11-08-2011, 06:58 AM)
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This is a significant step in the right direction, assuming of course that NT are willing to act on the feedback they receive.
Zertez
Member
(11-08-2011, 06:58 AM)
It is a good start. If they listen to the feedback is another story. Ninja Theory didnt seem willing to budge with their design choices this time last year, so Im skeptical they are really willing to listen when someone hates parts of the game.
Yoboman
Banned
(11-08-2011, 06:59 AM)

Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

Combo videos are awesome
XANDER CAGE
WELCOME TO THE XANDER ZONE
(11-08-2011, 06:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

Once upon a time there were arcades and that's what 90% of games were about.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 06:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

Absolutely. There are sites and forums dedicated to showing off videos and dishing about techniques. The complexity of the combat system for DMC is known for being the SF of the action game genre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjsuGB3S92Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqMFIYb_A-Y

Just a couple of examples.

Originally Posted by Monocle

This is a significant step in the right direction, assuming of course that NT are willing to act on the feedback they receive.

Why wouldn't they?
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 07:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

Yes (not scores though), there IS a competitive DMC scene which started right after DMC3. It's usually labeled under something like "True Style Tournament". I used to judge these back in the day (think of them like the Olympics only players have to style and show top execution for marks/points/rankings).

Ninja Theory didnt seem willing to budge with their design choices this time last year, so Im skeptical they are really willing to listen when someone hates parts of the game.

Art design/story is something they will not be changing but the game play/combat pretty much have been said to be tailored to have the DMC DNA. If NT doesn't have the experience to make a top DMC combat then this is the best way to go about it.

Capcom did something very similar for DMC3 back in the day.
pa22word
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(11-08-2011, 07:01 AM)
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This won't end well, but it is nice of them to do this after they told us they didn't care about what we thought of the game >_>
IC_Champion
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(11-08-2011, 07:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

I have wondered how you gauge something like that? I mean with DMC 4, your scores were recorded on Leaderboards.
Wario64
works for Gamestop (lol)
(11-08-2011, 07:02 AM)
I hope they ask for 60 FPS
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(11-08-2011, 07:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

lol

On Topic: This is the greatest DmC news I've ever heard. Enjoy, Dahbomb, Kail, Brea and the rest :D
lazybones18
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(11-08-2011, 07:03 AM)
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They gonna pay off the players!
pa22word
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(11-08-2011, 07:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gamebaron

I have wondered how you gauge something like that? I mean with DMC 4, your scores were recorded on Leaderboards.


Capture device to record the gameplay I'd imagine, or just photo's of the screen.
lowhighkang_LHK
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(11-08-2011, 07:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Takao

There's a "scene" for a single player action game? Wut. Do you guys just try to one up each other in scores, and chain totals?

The DMC combat system is open ended.

I started making DMC combo videos all the way back with DMC1, then with the popularity of youtube combos started coming up in video format from anyone with a recording device. Then we started hand vs. eye . com during vanilla DMC3 in which shit really exploded, especially with all the contributions from myself, gemasis, YuriSeal, JustaNewbie etc. Since then - hand vs. eye died out but the essence of the website still exists from person to person, youtube account to youtube account, and fansite to fansite.

Devil May Cry 'technology' is in the same realm as Marvel tech or Street Fighter tech, you expand and outdo other people's combos and skills. It's self fueling.

And - beyond that, DMC is skill based. Which entices any group of people to create a scene if you feel that skill is based on a justified game.

Ninja Theory is simply seeking to harness that scene. In the same way players in the fighting game community have play tests with Capcom's fighting games before release.

This is a very good move by Ninja Theory - it serves to create trust between the two groups (something lost early in the game's announcement) it serves to create reason we should get a better action game, and it serves as a good PR mechanic to show that Ninja Theory actually does care what veteran fans want.

Most of my work looking back is from DMC1 -
Last edited by lowhighkang_LHK; 11-08-2011 at 07:10 AM.
Riposte
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(11-08-2011, 07:05 AM)
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I don't know what to make of this in terms of the future of DmC, but it is a good they are doing it.

Originally Posted by ezekial45

The complexity of the combat system for DMC is known for being the SF of the action game genre.

I wonder if my brain could handle the MvC of the action game genre, then.
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 07:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gamebaron

I have wondered how you gauge something like that? I mean with DMC 4, your scores were recorded on Leaderboards.

Even for DMC4, we don't look at "scores" or leaderboards although DMC4 was actually Capcom's attempt to harbor this competitive scene of DMC.

Essentially I compare it to something like the Olympics or a Freestyle tricks exhibition. Set guidelines are made on entries (time restriction, stage, weapon load out) and participants submit videos. They are judged based on style, variety, execution and general innovation then posted to the general public at the DMC forums. It's named under "True Style Tournament" and it even had a DMC2 side tournament (which allowed people to see some really fancy shit in that game).

The game's engine allowed the combat to go into such insane depth and variety that even with similar weapon and style load outs you saw different game play in between players. It was a constant leveling up process where players one upped each other. Who could do long unsustained combos, who can squeeze in more taunts, who can hold a SSS for the longest, who can chain multiple tight links together or the most jump cancels.... etc.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
(11-08-2011, 07:07 AM)
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That's promising, I guess.

Originally Posted by lowhighkang_LHK

The DMC combat system is open ended. I started making DMC combo videos all the way back with DMC1, then with the popularity of youtube combos started coming up in video format from anyone with a recording device. Then we started hand vs. eye . com during vanilla DMC3 in which shit really exploded. Since then - hand vs. eye died out but the essence of the website still exists from person to person, youtube account to youtube account, and fansite to fansite.

I swear, I use to check that site religiously. I never had the equipment to make videos tho, so I couldn't really join. It was gdlk when it was active. The things I saw people do in DMC and NG were incredible.
EvilNando
Junior Member
(11-08-2011, 07:07 AM)
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this mean they will increase the fps to 60?
EvilNando
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(11-08-2011, 07:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Even for DMC4, we don't look at "scores" or leaderboards although DMC4 was actually Capcom's attempt to harbor this competitive scene of DMC.

Essentially I compare it to something like the Olympics or a Freestyle tricks exhibition. Set guidelines are made on entries (time restriction, stage, weapon load out) and participants submit videos. They are judged based on style, variety, execution and general innovation then posted to the general public at the DMC forums. It's named under "True Style Tournament" and it even had a DMC2 side tournament (which allowed people to see some really fancy shit in that game).

The game's engine allowed the combat to go into such insane depth and variety that even with similar weapon and style load outs you saw different game play in between players. It was a constant leveling up process where players one upped each other. Who could do long unsustained combos, who can squeeze in more taunts, who can hold a SSS for the longest, who can chain multiple tight links together or the most jump cancels.... etc.


is there any footage of these competitions? Im really curious to watch one
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 07:09 AM)
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LHK can I trust you to make a thread on Gamefaqs? I know a lot of top DMC players hang around there or used to at least.

Need to spread the awareness on this... man I thought I was gonna get work done today.
Fjordson
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(11-08-2011, 07:11 AM)
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First reaction was wtf @ top players. But this "scene" sounds bad ass. Any place one can watch one of these True Style tourneys?
pa22word
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(11-08-2011, 07:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by EvilNando

this mean they will increase the fps to 60?


Highly doubtful. Boon's team over at Midway/Warner had to basically use voodoo magic to get a 2D fighter to maintain 60FPS on UE3 (consoles, of course).

Best hope for 60 FPS in this game is a PC port.
GuardianE
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(11-08-2011, 07:12 AM)
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Guess there's hope after all. Hopefully we get some impressions from people that fly in... actually, they'll likely sign a non-disclosure, I guess.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 07:13 AM)
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Has Capcom Japan ever done anything like this for DMC3-4? I know that they had some combo videos featured on the disc at times, but I always figured those were done in house.

Originally Posted by pa22word

Highly doubtful. Boon's team over at Midway/Warner had to basically use voodoo magic to get a 2D fighter to maintain 60FPS on UE3 (consoles, of course).

Best hope for 60 FPS in this game is a PC port.

Plus, the 60fps was only engaged during the combat. Everything else ran at standard 30fps.
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 07:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by EvilNando

is there any footage of these competitions? Im really curious to watch one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azLT90VUTJY

Probably a ton more on youtube. There is a particular one with DMC4 Royal Guard Dante that is one of my favorites but I can't seem to find it.

Originally Posted by ezekial45

Has Capcom Japan ever done anything like this for DMC3-4? I know that they had some combo videos featured on the disc at times, but I always figured those were done in house.

There was a very early DMC3 demo disc released and a Capcom rep by the name of Ben Judd was constantly at Gamefaqs checking in for feedback. The top DMC players really went in with DMC3 and basically went down to the floats/hit properties/juggles mechanics of the game. LHK can explain this better because I was covering the IGN DMC boards at the time (where Gemasis/Tats/Pokey etc were).

The video that was in DMC3 was done in house. The demo that we got was really bare bones, it had only Rebellion and E&I plus the 4 basic styles at LVL1. Stages went up to Cerberus only and of course you couldn't level up. Even then.... it was godlike and people had combo videos to show from it.

Weird fact but in this DMC3 demo when you threw out Sword Pierce and Dante was free to use moves, he basically had a lot of his Beowulf moves replace his sword moves during this mode. It was actually closer to Ifrit's movelist. Those animations were then brought into Beowulf.
Last edited by Dahbomb; 11-08-2011 at 07:18 AM.
GuardianE
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(11-08-2011, 07:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

Has Capcom Japan ever done anything like this for DMC3-4? I know that they had some combo videos featured on the disc at times, but I always figured those were done in house.

They took some advice from playtesting, and I'm sure they did beta testing, but I doubt they brought people in selectively from the community. Could be wrong. Then again, Capcom Japan probably didn't need quite as much help as Ninja Theory does.
lowhighkang_LHK
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(11-08-2011, 07:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dahbomb

LHK can I trust you to make a thread on Gamefaqs? I know a lot of top DMC players hang around there or used to at least.

Need to spread the awareness on this... man I thought I was gonna get work done today.

Sure. Somebody mentioned Brea is coming down - but I thought Brea was from Japan?

I made a lot of posts in DmC threads here at GAF alluding to the days when Ben Judd really asked some of us to get DMC back on track after the abysmal DMC2. Maybe somebody from Ninja Theory was reading one of those posts and thought it would be a good idea to capture that idea again.

Hopefully whoever goes addresses the concept of difficulty, DMC games should be hard. - In an odd way, I kind of take responsibility for making DMC3 too hard, since every time Ben would ask me - I kept saying "make DMC3 harder." So, I guess I fucked up.
lowhighkang_LHK
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(11-08-2011, 07:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

Has Capcom Japan ever done anything like this for DMC3-4? I know that they had some combo videos featured on the disc at times, but I always figured those were done in house.



Plus, the 60fps was only engaged during the combat. Everything else ran at standard 30fps.

Ben Judd was getting feedback and talking to us almost daily over at the gamefaq boards pre-release DMC3.

I, among a few other vets really cracked down on some of the biggest problems with DMC2, and what needed to improve with DMC3.

It strikes me then as no coincidence as DMC3 turned out to be one of if not -the- greatest action game of all time. Really, devs need to do this more often in skill oriented games, beyond the fighting genre.


Originally Posted by Oldschoolgamer

That's promising, I guess.



I swear, I use to check that site religiously. I never had the equipment to make videos tho, so I couldn't really join. It was gdlk when it was active. The things I saw people do in DMC and NG were incredible.

Yeah. What made hand vs. eye so great was that anybody could contribute. It was the DMC combo showcase community before the community even realized it -was- a community. I think Gemasis_Down is still doing combo vids, not sure. Haven't seen anything from him in awhile. Though to be honest, ever since I started med school I hvaen't really done anything worthwhile. And people have already surpassed my skill a ways back so I just tend to observe from the sidelines.
Last edited by lowhighkang_LHK; 11-08-2011 at 07:19 AM.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 07:16 AM)
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I'm hesitant to visit the Capcom Unity DmC forum. Has it been posted there?
Zzoram
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(11-08-2011, 07:16 AM)
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Hopefully they listen to the feedback, although 30fps already makes it inferior.

DMC4 was great IMO, such a smooth experience that you just don't get on consoles. Maybe it wasn't as well designed as DMC3, but the controls felt really good to me.
GuardianE
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(11-08-2011, 07:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by lowhighkang_LHK

In an odd way, I kind of take responsibility for making DMC3 too hard, since every time Ben would ask me - I kept saying "make DMC3 harder." So, I guess I fucked up.

No, goddamnit. You did good.
Twinduct
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(11-08-2011, 07:18 AM)
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Good on Ninja theory on this. Lets hope they take all critique to heart though.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 07:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by lowhighkang_LHK

It strikes me then as no coincidence as DMC3 turned out to be one of if not -the- greatest action game of all time. Really, devs need to do this more often in skill oriented games, beyond the fighting genre.

Totally. The fans are upset, but really they want to see a good DMC. Even though they've been on their case for this past year, the fans are NT's best chance for success on this game.
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
(11-08-2011, 07:19 AM)
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Who's going? I don't know where the likes of gemasis, brea, pokey, etc... are from.
BeautifulMemory
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(11-08-2011, 07:19 AM)
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Very very good news if Brea tests the game herself /biased
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(11-08-2011, 07:20 AM)
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Brea is a girl? I thought that was just handle.
Dahbomb
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(11-08-2011, 07:20 AM)
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Yeah actually BRINGING in known players is completely new.

Brea going down there would be GODLIKE.

Brea is a girl? I thought that was just handle.

Yeah I still don't know if that's true or not... but there is no denying those skills.
Yoshichan
I've played over 500 hours of DMC2 and consider the game good.
(11-08-2011, 07:21 AM)
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Brea going down there would make DmC playable, no doubt. She's fucking insane.

Originally Posted by Dahbomb

Yeah I still don't know if that's true or not... but there is no denying those skills.

She went to a Con (Expo?) somewhere.
BeautifulMemory
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(11-08-2011, 07:22 AM)
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I care about the lore, but as long as combat is there and the characters don't make me vomit, I will buy this...at a mid price
NinjaBoiX
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(11-08-2011, 07:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

As I said in the other thread, this is great, however this does nothing to hype me up because this frankly does nothing to my two biggest issues.

Even if people Dahbomb help tighten up the combat, it still going to be stuck in UE3 and even if you are telling them in person it's not needed to know they need to try and get it locked at 30 and frankly while I wish all of you who go and do this the best of luck I see no reason to believe that this will do anything to help with the engine problems or even the combat engine.

Woah, reading that gave me a headache. Use comma's man! Also, the combat can't be tight as they are using UE3?

Riiiggghhhttt.

Don't get me wrong, I have reservations about the combat too, but this is more to do with NT than UE3. The combat in Enslaved was pretty bland and unresponsive.
IC_Champion
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(11-08-2011, 07:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by ezekial45

I'm hesitant to visit the Capcom Unity DmC forum. Has it been posted there?

No.

EDIT: Okay, now they did.
Last edited by IC_Champion; 11-08-2011 at 07:31 AM.
BeautifulMemory
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(11-08-2011, 07:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by -NinjaBoiX-

Woah, reading that gave me a headache. Use comma's man! Also, the combat can't be tight as they are using UE3?

Riiiggghhhttt.

Maybe it can be tight, but UE is not known for it, and yes I know there's MK. You don't understand when we talk about DMC tight there's only a few games that are in it's level.
neorej
ERMYGERD!
(11-08-2011, 07:25 AM)
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Nothing like an afternoon gaming-session with developers, beer and Linkin Park.
lowhighkang_LHK
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(11-08-2011, 07:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by bone_and_sinew

Who's going? I don't know where the likes of gemasis, brea, pokey, etc... are from.


Some True Style 4 Contest Vids:

Brea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSu...eature=related

ThegothfatherDict:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHgRv...eature=related

TakanashiP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfZir...eature=related

Dango:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWMNI...feature=fvwrel

These are just a few. There were a ton of entries for TST4.

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