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A History Degree in the Gaming Industry

W

wilflare

Member
hello everyone, this is my first thread on NeoGAF but I really hope I can get some great views on the topic.

I am a History Major and I have been wondering how my studies can be of use in the development of the gaming industry. I am hoping to write an article for my History Society's Magazine on how a History Degree-holders can still work in the Gaming Industry (so they can look forward to a career beyond the traditional teaching). The tweet below started my interest in this.

https://twitter.com/#!/TheWesterFront/status/116070893989527552
"Is there anyone who knows a History PhD who would like to write for us?" - Paradox CEO

The prevailing mindset is that the gaming industry requires predominantly programmers, designers. Can "historians" be of use in this industry?

Any developers, gamers would like to comment?
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
wilflare said:
hello everyone, this is my first thread on NeoGAF but I really hope I can get some great views on the topic.

I am a History Major and I have been wondering how my studies can be of use in the development of the gaming industry. I am hoping to write an article for my History Society's Magazine on how a History Degree-holders can still work in the Gaming Industry (so they can look forward to a career beyond the traditional teaching). The tweet below started my interest in this.

https://twitter.com/#!/TheWesterFront/status/116070893989527552
"Is there anyone who knows a History PhD who would like to write for us?" - Paradox CEO

The prevailing mindset is that the gaming industry requires predominantly programmers, designers. Can "historians" be of use in this industry?

Any developers, gamers would like to comment?
Click to expand...

I've worked at quite a few developers around the Los Angeles area throughout the past decade, and I met a lot of game designers at those studios that had history degrees. They said that a history degree is useful for game design because:

1. History's a fairly writing intensive major, and you need to have good communicating skills to be a game designer.
2. Being history majors, they had a wide variety of inspiration to implement in their ideas.

There were other reasons too, but these were the two main ones I kept hearing most of them say.
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
wilflare said:
hello everyone, this is my first thread on NeoGAF but I really hope I can get some great views on the topic.

I am a History Major and I have been wondering how my studies can be of use in the development of the gaming industry. I am hoping to write an article for my History Society's Magazine on how a History Degree-holders can still work in the Gaming Industry (so they can look forward to a career beyond the traditional teaching). The tweet below started my interest in this.

https://twitter.com/#!/TheWesterFront/status/116070893989527552
"Is there anyone who knows a History PhD who would like to write for us?" - Paradox CEO

The prevailing mindset is that the gaming industry requires predominantly programmers, designers. Can "historians" be of use in this industry?

Any developers, gamers would like to comment?
Click to expand...

My initial reaction was "I wonder how many of them actually mean 'Know Things About The Bible'". Because the Bible is one of the most popular literary devices.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
I don't work in the industry, but it seems like it would be more or a character-building asset in an interview, something that rounds you out as a person, rather than something that will necessarily land you a job. It seems like it wouldn't do you any harm, but you'll also need to prove yourself in other, practical areas. What these areas are is probably dependant on what job you're applying for.
 
T

timcsavage

Member
I agree with Rez. You will have the 'transferable skills' from doing history which are applicable to a broad range of jobs which require strong soft skills.

Having said that, from a writing and research perspective you are probably in a strong position. Consider Assassin's Creed which references a lot of history and doesn't come across as a pastiche but quite engrossing.
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
I'm not sure there is a persistent demand for a history degree, but there might be for good writers with a history background.

You could probably just be a designer - game design courses are a relatively new thing, and very few of the designers I've worked with actually came from game design school.

By and large, the designers I've worked with have...

- A liberal arts education
- Are competent writers and communicators
- Have a vast knowledge of games
- Are clearly smart, so they can learn on the job
- Finishers - i.e. completed a degree​

As I see it, a lot of higher education is about learning how to learn, and less about the actual knowledge you may or may not leave with, so don't overthink this. The fact that you completed a history degree says a lot about your work ethic and ability to assimilate and synthesize information, and those are the most important traits for 90% of designers.

I've also worked with a ton of great designers that have come up through test, but managed to demonstrate all of the above through hard work instead of academic accomplishment.

Things are little different these days, though, so if you wanted a job in games the best thing you could do would be to teach yourself UnrealEd and start figuring out how to make levels with it.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
paradox-interactive-6mtk1b.jpg
 
S

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
The more expanded the gaming industry becomes, the more interest there will be for those who have never studied programming courses or what have you.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
As a history student myself I firmly believe that a history degree first and foremost is a personal benefit, not exactly one that gets you into jobs. But the skills you learn and develop are favorable for quite a broad range of occupations.
 
W

wilflare

Member
thanks for all the replies thus far :)
to be honest, some of the points mentioned here i have yet to think of.

there's just a prevailing mindset that a history/humanities degree gives you a rather limited range of occupations to choose from.

hop into a cab/taxi, the driver will chat with ya and the moment he finds out you study history, he'll ask "so what are you gonna do after you graduate? a teacher?"

i do remember Valve wanting to hire an economist sometime back.

any one came across "big companies" looking to hire historians etc?
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
wilflare said:
there's just a prevailing mindset that a history/humanities degree gives you a rather limited range of occupations to choose from.

hop into a cab/taxi, the driver will chat with ya and the moment he finds out you study history, he'll ask "so what are you gonna do after you graduate? a teacher?"
Click to expand...

As a graduate from History I hate this lol.
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Liberal Arts majors like History, English, Communications, and so on, generally produce well rounded employees that are sought after at a lot of businesses. Specialists are in need, but you'll often find many of your managers, directors, and so on, were in some liberal arts field in undergrad, or at least, went to a college that required a thorough core curriculum in the liberal arts.
 
C

Corran Horn

May the Schwartz be with you
The Albatross said:
Liberal Arts majors like History, English, Communications, and so on, generally produce well rounded employees that are sought after at a lot of businesses. Specialists are in need, but you'll often find many of your managers, directors, and so on, were in some liberal arts field in undergrad, or at least, went to a college that required a thorough core curriculum in the liberal arts.
Click to expand...

You sound like my old history teacher lol.
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
Are you published, OP? What is your area of expertise?

The Albatross said:
Liberal Arts majors like History, English, Communications, and so on, generally produce well rounded employees that are sought after at a lot of businesses. Specialists are in need, but you'll often find many of your managers, directors, and so on, were in some liberal arts field in undergrad, or at least, went to a college that required a thorough core curriculum in the liberal arts.
Click to expand...
Games will get around to appreciating the works that come from those fields of study, eventually, though I still don't think they'll provide an abundance of employment opportunities.

iirc, a game you would think would have multiple 'researchers' or 'scholars' working on some foundational historical material, Assassin's Creed, has one about one or two employees dedicated to those tasks; it's probably not full-time either.
 
W

wilflare

Member
MuseManMike said:
Are you published, OP? What is your area of expertise?
Click to expand...

I'm an undergrad, specializing in East Asian History.
The school's History Society Facebook page had an interesting discussion some weeks back when someone stirred the hornet's nest by saying a degree in History is useless.

I am hoping to get some leads to write an article on how specially a degree in History can help in fields like gaming. (though I must mention that the gaming industry in my country Singapore is small. but i do hope the article will offer some encouragement a student or two out there who has a secret dream of working in their favorite games company)
 
S

Squidofman

Member
I'm a history post-grad.

Got me a job writing about games, because as has been said above, your skills are transferable.

Analysis, interpretation, fast research, etc.
 
A

aceface

Member
I do modern Irish history. Specifically, I wrote my dissertation on the origins of the Fenians and the relationship between Irish and American Fenians during the 1850's and 60's.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Look at something like Assassin's Creed 2 set during the Renassaince, or even BioShock with the period-piece appropriate pieces it incorporated (often in blended, past-as-future fashion) in its fictitious world of Rapture. There are certainly many times when a historian would be useful to consult for accuracy, because even the most fantastical worlds sometimes borrow concepts of culture, architecture, etc, from other periods of history. Eternal Darkness is another great example, traveling through time as it does.

But what I really want to see is a game that depicts a historical event. Games like Eternal Sonata took a real-life historical figure's life (in this case, Chopin) and used tremendous artistic license to create a game out of it. But where are the games that try to accurately depict someone's biography in playable format? How about a game where you play as Abraham Lincoln and it's accurate to his life and the choices he had to make? That's just one example. There are so many ways you can approach this, and since film has movies for just about every notable figure in history, I don't see why games cannot.
 
H

Hcoregamer00

The 'H' stands for hentai.
I have a history degree, and I am currently working on my Master's Thesis for a Masters in Business Administration.

I think that a history degree is useful in the gaming industry in that writing a lot allows you to think logically, critically, and to create a story that flows well. Gaming storytelling would improve greatly if people with history degrees wrote more stories. Not to mention that the games themselves would have a deeper cosmology, geography, history, and a stronger interconnected world.

Kudos for Paradox for thinking outside of the box and hiring people with history degrees for storytelling.
 
W

wilflare

Member
storytelling-wise, literature majors would be of great help right?

i can't help to think there's a certain stereotype when it comes to the humanities and the industry.

for the case of Assassin's Creed, is the historian's involvement.. superficial? I mean as much as he's there to verify historical accuracy, would the average gamer be concerned with whether the right type of art style is used etc?
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
wilflare said:
storytelling-wise, literature majors would be of great help right
Click to expand...
Well, being a competent writer doesn't necessarily translate into being a competent screenwriter. Even though I feel no game has come close to utilizing actual literature/authors in any meaningful way, these are two very different things and should be treated as such (e.g. Crysis 2's abysmally laughable plotline). However, it may make sense in creating a respectable and well-written backstory (iirc, KoA: R is doing something like that).
wilflare said:
for the case of Assassin's Creed, is the historian's involvement.. superficial? I mean as much as he's there to verify historical accuracy, would the average gamer be concerned with whether the right type of art style is used etc?
Click to expand...
Well, no, but, let us hope that games don't continue to appeal to the lowest common denominator and that sometime in the future, games will be appeal to the more learned members of their consumer base.
wilflare said:
we have a Parliamentary Democracy here.
and well.. haha politics is another thing altogether here in Singapore :X
Click to expand...
Well, I hear our former speaker has some admiration for your country's drug laws.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
FateBreaker said:
Wait, really? Goddamn, this UC Irvine BA-English/Literature/Creative Writing degree may do something after all!
Click to expand...

Don't misconstrue: I worked very hard, and wrote a lot of speculative scripts and fiction, and those samples got me the job.

I'd say the literature degree exposed me to works I wouldn't normally have read, and forced me to learn to analyze a piece of text for form, content, etc.
 
W

wilflare

Member
MuseManMike said:
Well, being a competent writer doesn't necessarily translate into being a competent screenwriter. Even though I feel no game has come close to utilizing actual literature/authors in any meaningful way, these are two very different things and should be treated as such (e.g. Crysis 2's abysmally laughable plotline). However, it may make sense in creating a respectable and well-written backstory (iirc, KoA: R is doing something like that).

Well, no, but, let us hope that games don't continue to appeal to the lowest common denominator and that sometime in the future, games will be appeal to the more learned members of their consumer base.

Well, I hear our former speaker has some admiration for your country's drug laws.
Click to expand...

it seems that predominately strategy games (Civilizations/Total War) require a fair bit of historical accuracy/knowledge.

i agree with the part about the "lowest common denominator". it's always fun to play a game that has put much thought in creating an immersive world (with its own lore, rules and etc).

well on the drug laws - some laugh at it or feel that Singapore is state with draconian laws. but I guess while we complain, we still enjoy trains without having to worry about chewing gums.
 
L

Lindbergh

Member
Just curious, but would a Computer Science degree do well to land in a game design position (as opposed to game programmer)?
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
This may be the thread to ask this.

I've got a degree in Psychology and I've been looking around for a job in the industry the last few months. I've been wanting to get some experience in game development before I go back for my Masters and phD in a couple years. The way I want to shape the latter half of my education, I need hands on experience of what it's like to conceive, make and ship a game (or two). It's obvious I'm not going to get any type of "in" with sound, art or programming, so what are some good solid types of positions I should look into asking after with game companies? I had though on my own that producer or designer jobs would take advantage of my education and communication skills, but I'm wondering if there's more that I just don't know about.

I don't just want a job in the industry, I want a learning opportunity for myself. Something that'll give me a good overview of what game making is like so I can take that back to my Masters or phD program in Psychology and cater my education toward what I really want: Using sound Psychological principle to create not just better games, but games that don't rely so heavily on unhealthy concepts like repetitive action and addiction to be their hooks.

I saw this "liberal arts degrees in the games industry" thread, it might get some eyeballs on it from people who know what they're talking about. Anybody have some advice on where I can fit myself in? Should I even be worrying about it prior to more schooling or would the industry just be better served if I jumped straight into the graduate program?
 
S

Sober

Member
wilflare said:
hello everyone, this is my first thread on NeoGAF but I really hope I can get some great views on the topic.

I am a History Major and I have been wondering how my studies can be of use in the development of the gaming industry. I am hoping to write an article for my History Society's Magazine on how a History Degree-holders can still work in the Gaming Industry (so they can look forward to a career beyond the traditional teaching). The tweet below started my interest in this.

https://twitter.com/#!/TheWesterFront/status/116070893989527552
"Is there anyone who knows a History PhD who would like to write for us?" - Paradox CEO

The prevailing mindset is that the gaming industry requires predominantly programmers, designers. Can "historians" be of use in this industry?

Any developers, gamers would like to comment?
Click to expand...
If you want to continue to be academic about it, then you can study the industry and gamers (video game players I think is the preferred term) and write about it. Though that is pretty niche and far from what you would do in enthusiast press. Possibly Gamasutra and the likes. Have you written even an undergrad paper on the topic? I have but mine was severely narrow and really was more of a "video games and wider culture" instead of something for the industry.

Also, I think ludology is a emerging field in academia, but most of those that write on it have communication degrees and very few (from what I could find when doing research) study the wider effects that a historian would look at. A lot of "video game" books (of the academic kind) either look at programming or are similarly insular (for design purposes, etc.). At best we have gender studies mixed up into it.

MuseManMike said:
Well, being a competent writer doesn't necessarily translate into being a competent screenwriter. Even though I feel no game has come close to utilizing actual literature/authors in any meaningful way, these are two very different things and should be treated as such (e.g. Crysis 2's abysmally laughable plotline). However, it may make sense in creating a respectable and well-written backstory (iirc, KoA: R is doing something like that).
Click to expand...
Yes, backstory is likely a good start since you have history to draw on, you can rely on historical events to write backstory/exposition and in turn you are more likely to create something that doesn't require too much suspension of belief in events (in regards to an event in a backstory and it's wider social/political/economical consequences; though to be fair video game writing or most entertainment media rarely touches subjects like that)

wilflare said:
it seems that predominately strategy games (Civilizations/Total War) require a fair bit of historical accuracy/knowledge.

i agree with the part about the "lowest common denominator". it's always fun to play a game that has put much thought in creating an immersive world (with its own lore, rules and etc).
Click to expand...
Civ is just history flavoured at best and mostly board-game-esque. You can literally replace any historical 'references' with anything else, not to mention how offensive it is to non-Western interpretations of the progression of history.

Total War is somewhat the same thing - look into the 'controversies' regarding games like Rome: Total War's historical accuracy (this is why it spawned so many 'realism' mods), though at least they are more grounded in historical fact.

If you want to make an actual historical game, I think most people will find that boring. I did a major in history so I would not believe anything of the sort but if the best that we have (and most accurate to date) is Paradox grand strategy titles then they do little to excite the masses. Not to mention that any 'historical' game usually just picks at 'easy' ones like WW2 or Rome, etc.
 
C

cvxfreak

Member
I have a History degree (coupled with a Japanese degree), and I work in the game industry in a management capacity.

That said, I also have a Master's degree in International Relations, which definitely helped more than the BA did. Have been in the industry for a short time, having just graduated a year ago.

All three of my degrees helped me qualify for this job. I was sought for my writing skills, my Japanese ability and the time-work management ethic attained in graduate school (my position is usually reserved for older people than myself who usually have a BA and work experience).
 
H

HarryHengst

Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
paradox-interactive-6mtk1b.jpg
Click to expand...
Paradox is pretty much proof that they dont use history majors, or ignore everything they say. i love their games but damn if it isnt bunch of Eurocentric nonsense that really cannot be taken seriously at all.


Anyway, im doing my masters in history and am actually in the preparation phase (that is, i'm collecting my literature but havent started yet :lol) of writing my thesis about how video games can be used as a way to immerse and teach people about history. I think that games are a great new way to bring history out of the ivory tower of academics and to a wider audience, but there is obviously still a lot wrong about how games do it now. I think FPS like the Medal of Honor series have taken the most steps, with some of them integrating real war footage and interviews with veterans in the games, even though the way its presented is really problematic, as it's basically 'fuck yeah, America' and 'goddamn those Japs were some barbarians'.
 
R

rdrr gnr

Member
cvxfreak said:
I have a History degree (coupled with a Japanese degree), and I work in the game industry in a management capacity.

That said, I also have a Master's degree in International Relations, which definitely helped more than the BA did. Have been in the industry for a short time, having just graduated a year ago.
Click to expand...
And what was your area of focus within IR? I'm going to assume something Japan related.
 
S

Sober

Member
HarryHengst said:
Paradox is pretty much proof that they dont use history majors, or ignore everything they say. i love their games but damn if it isnt bunch of Eurocentric nonsense that really cannot be taken seriously at all.
Click to expand...

Europeans making Eurocentric games? Say it isn't so! Also, I'm pretty sure it's super hard to find a non-super-specialist doing non-traditional history studies (i.e. not European or North American) without forking out quite a bit of money for a video game.

though to be fair I haven't tried or read anything much on Sengoku so...
 
W

wilflare

Member
Sober said:
If you want to continue to be academic about it, then you can study the industry and gamers (video game players I think is the preferred term) and write about it. Though that is pretty niche and far from what you would do in enthusiast press. Possibly Gamasutra and the likes. Have you written even an undergrad paper on the topic? I have but mine was severely narrow and really was more of a "video games and wider culture" instead of something for the industry.

Also, I think ludology is a emerging field in academia, but most of those that write on it have communication degrees and very few (from what I could find when doing research) study the wider effects that a historian would look at. A lot of "video game" books (of the academic kind) either look at programming or are similarly insular (for design purposes, etc.). At best we have gender studies mixed up into it.


Yes, backstory is likely a good start since you have history to draw on, you can rely on historical events to write backstory/exposition and in turn you are more likely to create something that doesn't require too much suspension of belief in events (in regards to an event in a backstory and it's wider social/political/economical consequences; though to be fair video game writing or most entertainment media rarely touches subjects like that)


Civ is just history flavoured at best and mostly board-game-esque. You can literally replace any historical 'references' with anything else, not to mention how offensive it is to non-Western interpretations of the progression of history.

Total War is somewhat the same thing - look into the 'controversies' regarding games like Rome: Total War's historical accuracy (this is why it spawned so many 'realism' mods), though at least they are more grounded in historical fact.

If you want to make an actual historical game, I think most people will find that boring. I did a major in history so I would not believe anything of the sort but if the best that we have (and most accurate to date) is Paradox grand strategy titles then they do little to excite the masses. Not to mention that any 'historical' game usually just picks at 'easy' ones like WW2 or Rome, etc.
Click to expand...

thanks for you reply Sober! i have yet to write an undergrad piece on it. (my thesis will probably be on another topic altogether) This article that i am going to write is purely for interest and hopefully, it will encourage a History Major out there looking for a career outside of teaching.

but I guess, like you said, a truly historical game would be boring. if not, it'll be just full of "what ifs" that portrays the perspective of another person on a certain historical issue. anyone has thoughts on how "Homefront" can be an example of such?

I guess Harry's point is true as well... most Western games do portray a Eurocentric view (understandably so as well). C&C Generals chose Nationalist China rather than Communist China.
 
C

cvxfreak

Member
MuseManMike said:
And what was your area of focus within IR? I'm going to assume something Japan related.
Click to expand...

My history focus was broken up into 3 parts:

1. U.S. History (50%)
2. Japanese History (25%)
3. European History (25%)

Of course, there was overlap among all 3.

My master's thesis was about immigration and immigrants in Japan and their ethnic identity issues.

To be fair, I also spent time doing freelance journalism in the game industry during college and wrote FAQs for GameFAQs since I was 13, which helped reinforce the importance of writing in my current job. And knowing Japanese was a must.

EDIT: Didn't notice you were talking about IR until after I posted. Oops!
 
H

HarryHengst

Member
Sober said:
Europeans making Eurocentric games? Say it isn't so! Also, I'm pretty sure it's super hard to find a non-super-specialist doing non-traditional history studies (i.e. not European or North American) without forking out quite a bit of money for a video game.

though to be fair I haven't tried or read anything much on Sengoku so...
Click to expand...
Sengoku had a loading screen or artwork which was literally Japanese buildings being faded in black and a church basking in light. The game pretends to be based in 16th century Japan, when Europeans barely had any contact with the country. And yet Paradox decided that

6fDtK.jpg


was a great representation of how the times were. It's just insulting.
 
W

wilflare

Member
cvxfreak said:
My history focus was broken up into 3 parts:

1. U.S. History (50%)
2. Japanese History (25%)
3. European History (25%)

Of course, there was overlap among all 3.

My master's thesis was about immigration and immigrants in Japan and their ethnic identity issues.

To be fair, I also spent time doing freelance journalism in the game industry during college and wrote FAQs for GameFAQs since I was 13, which helped reinforce the importance of writing in my current job. And knowing Japanese was a must.

EDIT: Didn't notice you were talking about IR until after I posted. Oops!
Click to expand...

were you paid well for your freelance journalism?
trying to earn some bit of money for my exchange to the US this coming Fall.
 
W

wilflare

Member
HarryHengst said:
Sengoku had a loading screen or artwork which was literally Japanese buildings being faded in black and a church basking in light. The game pretends to be based in 16th century Japan, when Europeans barely had any contact with the country. And yet Paradox decided that

6fDtK.jpg


was a great representation of how the times were. It's just insulting.
Click to expand...

hmm I don't think is Paradox is wrong though.
the Jesuit Order came to Japan in the early 16th Century.
if anything, I think the photo may have showed Paradox's religious inclinations.
 
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