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Shiggy
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:05 PM)
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I already expected this to happen. So where to start?

Last year, Silicon Knights and Nintendo started to work together once again on a new title. Based on the fact that they already had Wii U dev kits and also based on Dyack's comments, it was Eternal Darkness 2.

With Nintendo being a major owner of Silicon Knights, they were pretty much the studio's last saviour. After the commercial and critical failure of Too Human, just as well as long delays of both Too Human and The Ritualist (Sega, later THQ), Silicon Knights was pretty much avoided by 3rd parties. While they still got a contract for X-Men Destiny, the title received miserable reviews. All of this led to a series of layoffs, going from 150 employees in 2007 to only 40 in 2012.

Of course, the Epic trial was not much of a help either. While SK already had a buckload of debt (e.g., a loan which needs to be paid back next year to the government (?)), 3rd party publishers feared that if SK lost the trial, SK would close shops and the game would end up unfinished.

So as already mentioned, the studio was solely dependent on Nintendo's goodwill since late November 2011. But then the trial against Epic took place last week, and SK lost it. SK was ordered to pay 4.5 mio USD to Epic, and additionally they may need to pay for Epic's legal fees (any idea about that amount? Should it be above one million?). The company's debt rose to a new level.

That's apparently when Nintendo noticed that things may not look as shiny anymore. I do not know what the budget for a mid-tier HD game like Eternal Darkness 2 would have been, perhaps 40, perhaps 50 millions USD? When Nintendo saw that they would need to pay an additional 10 million USD to have the company survive that develops the game, they didn't seem to like it, especially as they wouldn't get anything in return. This has happened in the past too, do you remember Factor 5?

So it looks like there have been internal discussions between Nintendo and Silicon Knights. NCL reviewed its decision and it appears as if Eternal Darkness 2 is cancelled for now. Hence, many of the 40-man team were laid off, leaving the studio in limbo now.

Obviously, Dyack anticipated what was to come. He did not comment on the outcome of the trial except for saying that they will appeal - that appears to be a last attempt to save the studio now; they've got nothing to lose anymore.

Good luck to all employees who lost their job!
Ein Bear
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:06 PM)
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This...can't be happening!
elsk
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:07 PM)
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Going on trial against Epic was plain stupid.
Wolves Evolve
Just visiting Planet Fuck
(06-09-2012, 02:07 PM)
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DYACK WHAT THE HELL DUDE
Vinterbird
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:08 PM)
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We need leaks, artwork, vertical slices, anything now.
MrHicks
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:08 PM)
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the epic/SK lawsuit ended already?
and they lost?

lol
Globox_82
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:08 PM)
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Anyone surprised?
Exterminieren
on the brink of disasrer
(06-09-2012, 02:08 PM)
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Dyack, you total idiot.

Proceedings against Epic was an enormously bad idea, and it was plain from the start.
Raide
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:08 PM)
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DAMMIT! NO TOO HUMAN TOO?

Someone grab the IP for the love of god.
Shiggy
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vinterbird

We need leaks, artwork, vertical slices, anything now.

Will happen sooner or later, but we should give them some time to see if they can survive somehow. Everything else wouldn't be fair.
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(06-09-2012, 02:09 PM)
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Dyack you stupid bastard. You stupid, stupid bastard.

Nintendo I'm begging you, give the game to somebody else. I would sell my soul for ED2.
Nibel
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:10 PM)
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You should have never fucked with Epic in the first place. Goddamn.
Raide
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:10 PM)
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If only Epic has settled early, this might have all blown over instead of dragging on for years. Always sad to see developers go under and regardless of GAF's for/against when it comes to Dyack, I enjoyed Too Human.
walking fiend
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Exterminieren

Dyack, you total idiot.

Proceedings against Epic was an enormously bad idea, and it was plain from the start.

.
Vinterbird
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shiggy

Will happen sooner or later, but we should give them some time to see if they can survive somehow. Everything else wouldn't be fair.

I do wonder if this means that they are going to go door to door to ever single publisher trying to do just something third rank thing to keep head above water now, or just become that company everyone outsources to like with Darksiders.
WhyMe6
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:12 PM)
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Oh shiiiiiit, I was so looking forward to Eternal Darkness 2 :(

If Nintendo retains the IP, I wonder if they'll bring a different studio on board to finish it...
Holy Wars
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:12 PM)
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU GO AGAINST THE NEOGAF
walking fiend
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:12 PM)
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I always thought they should have had become a Nintendo 2nd party much sooner.
demigod
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:12 PM)
Karma sure is a bitch.
Magic Ovaries
Junior Member
(06-09-2012, 02:13 PM)
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So what was the reason for the SK lawsuit? The game was delayed? The game sucked? The device costs were too high?

I remember Too Human's menu having frame rate issues, I just shooked my head.
Rygar 8 Bit
Jaguar 64-bit
(06-09-2012, 02:14 PM)
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just had to push it with epic man eternal darkness 2 could of been a huge come back for you dyack
Raide
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Magic Ovaries

So what was the reason for the SK lawsuit? The game was delayed? The game sucked? The device costs were too high?

I remember that game's menu having frame rate issues, I just shooked my head.

Unhappy with UE, thought Epic did not provide them with enough help, wanted to take Epic to court...lost.
DieH@rd
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:14 PM)
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Budget for mid tier HD game is not $40-50 million.
tkscz
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by walking fiend

I always thought they should have had become a Nintendo 2nd party much sooner.

They were good during the gamecube age, but they went out on their own and this is where it got them.

Originally Posted by Raide

Unhappy with UE, thought Epic did not provide them with enough help, wanted to take Epic to court...lost.

You're joking right? Is it in the contract that Epic give you a class on how to use UE3? Hell, maybe they shouldn't have joined the UE3 ban wagon and made their own engine.
Dascu
(06-09-2012, 02:15 PM)
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Goddammit.

Best of luck to those were laid off.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:15 PM)
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Facepalm If only Dyack focused on doing something useful instead of suing Epic
Biggzy
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by DieH@rd

Budget for mid tier HD game is not $40-50 million.

Isn't that the going rate for a AAA game?
Sponge
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:17 PM)
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Why
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
(06-09-2012, 02:17 PM)
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Dyack seemingly had a real "biting the hand that feeds you" and blame game complex going on all through his career. Whether it was blaming game journalists or the entire preview/review system for the savaging his sub-par game received and not actually using that criticism to improve it, or turning on the engine providers when his supposedly amazing game failed to take the world by storm, the guy is like some modern day parable of what happens when you get consumed by weird vengeance all the time.

Pity people are obviously losing their jobs, but its been a long time since I've seen a spark of talent at Silicon Knights. They'll achieve much more now not anchored to a ship with a captain that keeps trying to win fights against icebergs.
Box of Bunnies
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:17 PM)
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Dyack suffering sanity effects.
kurahador
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:18 PM)
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nooooooo... :(
specialguy
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:20 PM)
Because of being a Nintendo exclusive, I wonder if people would have vastly overrated ED2 as much as they did 1 back in the day...
Holy Wars
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Pie and Beans

Dyack seemingly had a real "biting the hand that feeds you" and blame game complex going on all through his career. Whether it was blaming game journalists or the entire preview/review system for the savaging his sub-par game received and not actually using that criticism to improve it, or turning on the engine providers when his supposedly amazing game failed to take the world by storm, the guy is like some modern day parable of what happens when you get consumed by weird vengeance all the time.

Pity people are obviously losing their jobs, but its been a long time since I've seen a spark of talent at Silicon Knights. They'll achieve much more now not anchored to a ship with a captain that keeps trying to win fights against icebergs.

He was blaming Unreal for the game's shitty E3 showing, promising it'd be fixed for release. Oops.
Shiggy
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vinterbird

I do wonder if this means that they are going to go door to door to ever single publisher trying to do just something third rank thing to keep head above water now, or just become that company everyone outsources to like with Darksiders.

Both alternative are pretty much ruled out. Either they find a way to pay back their debt, which is only possible by either winning the lawsuit or by finding an external investor - I heard Curt Schilling is interested (sorry), or they go bankrupt.


Originally Posted by WhyMe6

Oh shiiiiiit, I was so looking forward to Eternal Darkness 2 :(

If Nintendo retains the IP, I wonder if they'll bring a different studio on board to finish it...

I wonder why SK cannot simply reform under a new name and continue development. But well, Epic may try to get money from that "new" studio then. We had that already with Factor 5 and WhiteHarvest LLC...


Originally Posted by DieH@rd

Budget for mid tier HD game is not $40-50 million.

I said I didn't know, so please enlighten me as it would be pretty interesting to know.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
(06-09-2012, 02:20 PM)
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I always thought it was odd and confusing that Nintendo partnered with them in the first place considering Nintendo's aversion to financial troubles (Factor 5, CING)
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
(06-09-2012, 02:22 PM)
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ED was a smart, mature game with high production values for the time. The voice acting and direction of the cut scenes was outstanding.

Plus, the camera system is still the best I've seen in a 3rd party game. So, so awesome was that camera.
Last edited by Gahiggidy; 06-09-2012 at 02:25 PM.
Shiggy
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by grandjedi6

I always thought it was odd and confusing that Nintendo partnered with them in the first place considering Nintendo's aversion to financial troubles (Factor 5, CING)

It's been a long time. They invested into SK in 2000. A wholly different philosophy and strategy at Nintendo back then.
Scum
Junior Member
(06-09-2012, 02:25 PM)
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Bugger! :-(
Cerebral Assassin
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by tkscz

You're joking right? Is it in the contract that Epic give you a class on how to use UE3? Hell, maybe they shouldn't have joined the UE3 ban wagon and made their own engine.

That wasn't really the issue, it was more that Epic provided them with an unfinished engine & they seemed more interested in making GoW than providing what was promised to SK (according to SK anyway)
Cosmonaut X
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by specialguy

Because of being a Nintendo exclusive, I wonder if people would have vastly overrated ED2 as much as they did 1 back in the day...

"Eternal Darkness" wasn't overrated; it was the last great game SK made, and though its N64 roots were obvious even then, it was a smart, entertaining and enthralling game that served as a great launch title for the little box.
v1oz
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(06-09-2012, 02:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by specialguy

Because of being a Nintendo exclusive, I wonder if people would have vastly overrated ED2 as much as they did 1 back in the day...

ED was more about the rich interactive story telling. For what it was, it did an amazing job. would you knock Heavy Rain for not being much of a game?
Gambit
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:28 PM)
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this is worse than if ED had stayed dead.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:28 PM)
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not that i'm happy about this, but SK is going down. They haven't made a good game in years and this epic lawsuit is gonna kill them. kinda sad to see them go, i'll always remember eternal darkness and blood omen.
Raide
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:29 PM)
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ED2 could be one of those landmark Wii-U games. Imagine the Sanity stuff working via the controller screen. Weird stuff popping up, making you panic more and make mistakes. Who cares about basic inventory and maps, do something utterly creative and bonkers with it.
Holy Wars
Banned
(06-09-2012, 02:29 PM)

Originally Posted by v1oz

ED was more about the rich interactive story telling. For what it was, it did an amazing job. would you knock Heavy Rain for not being much of a game?

Heavy Rain was good. Eternal Darkness was crap.
7threst
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by specialguy

Because of being a Nintendo exclusive, I wonder if people would have vastly overrated ED2 as much as they did 1 back in the day...

It is not overrated and it certainly has nothing to do with being a Nintendo exclusive. ED simply is a great game.
FatCat
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:30 PM)
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I wouldn't be surprised if the license is kept by Nintendo, if SK goes down. So there is always hope...
DieH@rd
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vinterbird

I do wonder if this means that they are going to go door to door to ever single publisher trying to do just something third rank thing to keep head above water now, or just become that company everyone outsources to like with Darksiders.

?

Darksiders was original IP created by brand new studio Vigil Games. They also worked on Warhammer 40K MMO, but financial instability of THQ shifted focus of the game back to the more traditional "Space Marine" action experience, just with trillion % of more content. Currently they are finishing work on very ambitious DS2.
Cosmonaut X
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(06-09-2012, 02:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by DieH@rd

?

Darksiders was original IP created by brand new studio Vigil Games. They also worked on Warhammer 40K MMO, but financial instability of THQ shifted focus of the game back to the more traditional "Space Marine" action experience, just with trillion % of more content. Currently they are finishing work on very ambitious DS2.

...and SK are reported to have assisted with grunt work on "Darksiders", which is what Vinterbird is getting at.
Jackano
Member
(06-09-2012, 02:32 PM)
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This is Nintendo politics I don't understand, or at least I don't agree with.
If they want third party love, they better show more interest in their second party first.
If they want more core gamers games and generally more games for their systems, they also need to invest in more western studios.
They should have secured Silicon Knights IPs and supported them years ago.

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