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Horse Armour
Member
(12-01-2012, 06:45 AM)
http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...29_575412.html

New article has revealed the specs of the PC that the Agni's Philosophy tech demo was run on: GTX 680, i7-3770K 3.5GHz and 32 GB of RAM. Apparently the CPU was hardly stressed and it could have run on something much weaker. It also only used 1.8GB of texture data so next gen consoles should have very little problem fitting it onto memory. In terms of anti-aliasing I think it may have used a combination of 8xMSAA and FXAA which is massively impressive if true.

What was most impressive was that it runs at 60FPS as shown by this slide:

Originally Posted by DieH@rd

Caption below this slide was " シーンのレンダリングパフォーマンス概要 ", which translates into "Overview of the scene rendering performance".

16678Ás/16.6ms/60fps. Impressive.
I always thought this demo was 30fps.

What implications does this have for next gen? Considering that the rumour for PS4 is that it has a 7870, is there any reason to think that it won't be able to run this same fidelity of graphics but at 30FPS?


Here's the original video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU

Here are some new screens:



Last edited by Horse Armour; 12-01-2012 at 08:51 AM.
XANDER CAGE
WELCOME TO THE XANDER ZONE
(12-01-2012, 06:47 AM)
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Damn, that's pretty impressively optimized already if true. Not sure if I buy 8XMSAA though... that seems a little nuts for 60fps, even on that hardware.

Looking forward to running Square games with SMAA injectors!
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
(12-01-2012, 06:47 AM)
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I think the main question is what kind of graphical fidelity can you have in a big open world.

When all the game has to render is a dudes face and some monsters, of course it'll look great ... but what if you're riding an airship in real time in an RPG? How good will that look when you have to stream a shitload of assets without a framerate dip?
speedpop
Has problems recognising girls
(12-01-2012, 06:47 AM)
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I just hope whatever uses it is thrown on PC as well.
Seik
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(12-01-2012, 06:48 AM)
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Well, it'll run on next-gen, but it won't be at its maximum. (Maybe at 30fps, like you mentioned, maybe a few effects less and I can see this happening.)

Still, its impressive to obtain such results on a single 680GTX, I am more and more tempted to buy one, my 480GTX is starting to get old.

Dat beard.
brandonh83
(12-01-2012, 06:50 AM)
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It'll run but we'll keep getting more restricted RPG's from them in favor of technical prowess.
Terrell
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(12-01-2012, 06:51 AM)
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I remember when the internet debated the FF8 demo and the FF7 PS3 demo. This shall be no different. And by "no different" I mean "meaningless in the long scheme of things".
kuroshiki
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(12-01-2012, 06:51 AM)
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It's Square Enix that has to worry about that, not us.

Also some of current gen game like God Of War Ascension and Uncharted 3 looks stunning too. Surely next gen will blow us away.
The M.O.B
important Canuck facts
(12-01-2012, 06:51 AM)
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Can next gen afford it?
Pranay_
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(12-01-2012, 06:52 AM)
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The PS4 is rumoured to have an apu + discrete gpu
Gamer @ Heart
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(12-01-2012, 06:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by The M.O.B

Can next gen afford it?

Can they afford to make it and can we afford to buy it.
DTKT
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(12-01-2012, 06:52 AM)
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You cant have a 680 and sell the console at a 400$ price-point and make a profit. The card alone retails for 450$.
Horse Armour
Member
(12-01-2012, 06:53 AM)

Originally Posted by DTKT

You cant have a 680 and sell the console at a 400$ price-point and make a profit. The card alone retails for 450$.

Something like a 7850 in a console shouldn't have any trouble running this at 30FPS.
lsslave
Jew Gamer
(12-01-2012, 06:54 AM)
I really doubt that this will look like next gen, in fact I'd wager it won't look like this except for some Heavy Rain type experiences (if that)

Pre-scripted sequences is not a game, and a 680 is well above the tech next gen can afford.
MCD
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(12-01-2012, 06:55 AM)
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Sure. Just drop it to 30fps.

Who needs 60 when we can have the feel.
antonz
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(12-01-2012, 06:56 AM)
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Processor certainly stomps the shit out of anything we are led to expect in Next Gen Consoles. I would expect it will run alright but wont be reaching the kind of numbers that pc setup is
Tagg9
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(12-01-2012, 06:56 AM)
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Seems like a massive amount of RAM. Presumably it could work with certain types of streaming tech as well.
Anth0ny
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(12-01-2012, 06:57 AM)
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GTX 680, i7-3770K 3.5GHz and 32 GB of RAM

pfft

ps4/720 will be at least double that

piece of cake
Cake Boss
go home you're drunk
(12-01-2012, 06:57 AM)
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Not at 60fps.
Horse Armour
Member
(12-01-2012, 06:58 AM)

Originally Posted by antonz

Processor certainly stomps the shit out of anything we are led to expect in Next Gen Consoles. I would expect it will run alright but wont be reaching the kind of numbers that pc setup is

Article says processor load was very light, CPU power won't be the problem next gen in achieving this type of fidelity.
DonMigs85
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(12-01-2012, 06:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by lsslave

I really doubt that this will look like next gen, in fact I'd wager it won't look like this except for some Heavy Rain type experiences (if that)

Pre-scripted sequences is not a game, and a 680 is well above the tech next gen can afford.

Wish it could be like the Xbox 1, where its GPU at launch was almost as powerful as Nvidia's top of the line card at the time (Geforce 3 Ti 500).
Tagg9
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(12-01-2012, 06:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Horse Armour

Article says processor load was very light, CPU power won't be the problem next gen in achieving this type of fidelity.

If the Wii U is a sign of things to come, expect more GPU power and less CPU power.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(12-01-2012, 07:00 AM)
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Switch out 8x MSAA for SMAA and pair back a couple things and it probably could. Definitely 30 fps at least. Those are way lower specs than I expected. If it's even possible to get near that at 60fps next gen will surpass my expectations. Even 30 would be impressive. 680 level output in a lower card should be within reach with proper optimization.
Last edited by RoboPlato; 12-01-2012 at 07:08 AM.
Log4Girlz
I recently went to my friends house to check out his wii. I was generally impressed. It was larger than I expected though.
(12-01-2012, 07:00 AM)
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Does Wii U count as next generation?
gundamkyoukai
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(12-01-2012, 07:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by DTKT

You cant have a 680 and sell the console at a 400$ price-point and make a profit. The card alone retails for 450$.

Does not really matter how much the card retails for MS and Sony not going to pay any where near street price .
Still we not going to get a 680 in a next gen system .

Demo look really nice carry down the AA and drop 30fps and i can see it happening on next gen systems.
Last edited by gundamkyoukai; 12-01-2012 at 07:03 AM.
RedSwirl
Junior Member
(12-01-2012, 07:00 AM)
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Definitely more optimized than I expected. Just goes to show that a 680 can really do if you push it. Also shows that few, if any PC games out now really push the highest-end gaming systems.

It's gonna be weird owning a gaming PC over the next 18 months, seeing this sudden massive bump in graphics, and then realizing your current hardware can already run that.
Zyrusticae
Banned
(12-01-2012, 07:00 AM)

Originally Posted by BigJiantRobut

Damn, that's pretty impressively optimized already if true. Not sure if I buy 8XMSAA though... that seems a little nuts for 60fps, even on that hardware.

Looking forward to running Square games with SMAA injectors!

Judging from the fact that the MSAA isn't included on that particular slide, I believe it's probably not being used there (it has a measurable performance impact like everything else). I could be wrong, though.

Also, speaking personally, post-processing AA is pretty darn useless. Even in its best implementation, it does absolutely nothing for temporal aliasing, which is where the worst of it is.

I can only hope TXAA and SMAA 2x/4x see common usage in the future. A future without temporal aliasing would be a very nice future indeed!
raven777
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(12-01-2012, 07:02 AM)
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If we can run this in 30fps with a bit less AA, than I would still be very impressed.

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201211/26024927.html

The link above has few videos showing technical stuff about Luminous Studio that might be of interest
RedSwirl
Junior Member
(12-01-2012, 07:02 AM)
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Also, judging by what they said about CPU load, I'm guessing this demo could've run on a high-end i5?
IcyBlueStrawberry
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(12-01-2012, 07:03 AM)
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I'm genuinely impressed by the fact that they had the demo running at 60 fps on a single 680. I assumed that it was running at 30 fps on a pair of them.

I know it's only a tech demo, but maybe next gen won't be so horrible after all.

Now I'm sad that my current rig with roughly twice the GPU power struggles with certain, much less impressive, current gen games :(
Last edited by IcyBlueStrawberry; 12-01-2012 at 07:05 AM.
raven777
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(12-01-2012, 07:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zyrusticae

Judging from the fact that the MSAA isn't included on that particular slide, I believe it's probably not being used there (it has a measurable performance impact like everything else). I could be wrong, though.

Also, speaking personally, post-processing AA is pretty darn useless. Even in its best implementation, it does absolutely nothing for temporal aliasing, which is where the worst of it is.

I can only hope TXAA and SMAA 2x/4x see common usage in the future. A future without temporal aliasing would be a very nice future indeed!

There is a slide that shows it was using 8xMSSAA + FXAA for AA, at least on the character model bit.
Cake Boss
go home you're drunk
(12-01-2012, 07:04 AM)
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What are the rumored video cards that are suppose to be in the 2 consoles, have the rumors been all over the place or are they all mentioning the same cards?
Horse Armour
Member
(12-01-2012, 07:05 AM)

Originally Posted by RedSwirl

Also, judging by what they said about CPU load, I'm guessing this demo could've run on a high-end i5?

The only difference between the two would be that the i5 isn't hyper threaded so yes, there wouldn't be any problems at all running it on an i5.

Originally Posted by Cake Boss

What are the rumored video cards that are suppose to be in the 2 consoles, have the rumors been all over the place or are they all mentioning the same cards?

Latest PS4 rumour has it at a 78050/7870.
neoanarch
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(12-01-2012, 07:05 AM)
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32GB OF RAM

christ
Coxy
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(12-01-2012, 07:05 AM)
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impossible to tell from the data provided. "hardly stressed" is a fairly worthless statement
Nibel
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(12-01-2012, 07:06 AM)
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This is "just" a techdemo - with visuals and audio only; no game logic included.

I think we will see a 30 FPS version with minor visual downgrades and that's it.

And damn I want a 680 - that card seems to be magic
DonMigs85
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(12-01-2012, 07:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

Also, judging by what they said about CPU load, I'm guessing this demo could've run on a high-end i5?

Even in the old days most tech demos didn't push the CPU much. It's not like they have to run complex AI or physics routines, it's a pre-baked demo.
flipswitch
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(12-01-2012, 07:07 AM)
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8xMSAA is a bit overkill, don't you think? But then again it's running at 60fps so I guess it isn't!
Thunder Monkey
(12-01-2012, 07:08 AM)
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Should get reasonably close with compromises.

Lower res, or complete lack of MSAA. But this is all just speculation. We know very little about what either powerhouses are actually packing to say either way. I don't expect either to have anything close to the effective capability of the GTX 680. But it's not like they'd need it to get close.

Closed system designs.
SolarPowered
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(12-01-2012, 07:09 AM)
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Five years into next gen, at 30FPS and with little to no AA/AF. I'd be amazed if it ran at 1080p.
Zyrusticae
Banned
(12-01-2012, 07:09 AM)

Originally Posted by Nibel

This is "just" a techdemo - with visuals and audio only; no game logic included.

Game logic is, at this point, an exceedingly negligable portion of the power usage. Pretty sure the physics are also being done on the GPU.

Originally Posted by Nibel

I think we will see a 30 FPS version with minor visual downgrades and that's it.

Quite likely. It is, after all, VERY UNLIKELY that a console is going to have the equivalent of a GTX 680, based on price alone.

Originally Posted by Nibel

And damn I want a 680 - that card seems to be magic

Don't bother - get a 670 and overclock it instead, it's just as good and shaves off $100 from the price. :)

(I have two of them. They are indeed magical.)
Despera
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(12-01-2012, 07:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by raven777

If we can run this in 30fps with a bit less AA, than I would still be very impressed.

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201211/26024927.html

The link above has few videos showing technical stuff about Luminous Studio that might be of interest

Thanks for the link.

And as usual, all of this is bullshit/smokes and mirrors until they show us actual gameplay.
DonMigs85
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(12-01-2012, 07:09 AM)
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Even the 7870 rumored in to be in the PS4 is likely to have half the ROPs and memory bus, much like RSX compared to a regular Geforce 7800.
gundamkyoukai
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(12-01-2012, 07:10 AM)
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Man stuff like this really make waiting for next gen hard .
Also since it a demo not surprise it not not using much of the CPU that often happens .
Don't for that these systems also going to have APU so that should also help even if the system don't have the power of a 680
Last edited by gundamkyoukai; 12-01-2012 at 07:13 AM.
Chuck Norris
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(12-01-2012, 07:10 AM)
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Would we keep in mind that there would probably be greater optimization for consoles, and would be able to get more out of each. So it looks promising.

And FF games don't have AI so we don't have to worry about that :P
Pranay_
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(12-01-2012, 07:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cake Boss

What are the rumored video cards that are suppose to be in the 2 consoles, have the rumors been all over the place or are they all mentioning the same cards?

7850/7870 + APU
benzy
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(12-01-2012, 07:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Horse Armour


Latest PS4 rumour has it at a 78050/7870.

Is that better than a 680? I know nothing about PCs.
SalsaShark
Trust no one!
Keep your laser handy!
(12-01-2012, 07:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nibel

And damn I want a 680 - that card seems to be magic

nothing's magic, got one and still getting some fps drops on Hitman

I feel like PC games are surpassing hardware limitations. SLI was kind of a ridiculous idea before and now its very much needed sometimes.

Anyway, if anything I feel that next-gen consoles could reach the equivalence of a 680 at most really, considering that im sure they'll stick to 30fps.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(12-01-2012, 07:12 AM)
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Does anyone have a link to an HD version of Agni's Philosphy? I want to save it but haven't been able to find a good version.
Chuck Norris
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(12-01-2012, 07:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by DonMigs85

Even in the old days most tech demos didn't push the CPU much. It's not like they have to run complex AI or physics routines, it's a pre-baked demo.

It would be running some physics routines from what I've seen, the particle effects, the hair and cloth simulation etc.

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