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kobashi100
Banned
(12-23-2012, 04:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Infinite

It's about money.

I hope this is legit btw I hate region locking especially since this console has a bunch of games not coming here that are awesome.

I would love to know the % of gamers who actually do import. I know they argue its about monies in each region but seriously, it must be a small number who import.

Dunno why Nintendo keep up with this region locking. When it comes to 3DS software and Wii U in the future, if ninty would just speed up the release dates between Japan/US and EU, even with region free software, you would find people would be prepared to wait anyway.

The space between some Nintendo software releases between NA and EU is just unacceptable. It should be days apart, not weeks and sometimes even months!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(12-23-2012, 04:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by kobashi100

I would love to know the % of gamers who actually do import. I know they argue its about monies in each region but seriously, it must be a small number who import.

I'd be very curious about if the number of people who have ever imported a video game spiked with the Xenoblade release. Its the most hyped I ever remember a game that had an English release but wasn't released in NA being, and the first (and currently only) title I've ever imported.
androvsky
Member
(12-23-2012, 04:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by kobashi100

I would love to know the % of gamers who actually do import. I know they argue its about monies in each region but seriously, it must be a small number who import.

From what I can tell it's becoming a real problem with anime blu-rays in Japan. The pricing there is vastly higher than the US, and combined with the weak dollar means sales of the US blu-rays on Amazon.co.jp are supposedly quite a bit higher than the Japanese releases. One publisher is starting to force the US publishers to wait a year before putting out blu-rays, and Index forced the Persona 4 blu-ray to be dub-only because of it. If that's working out well for the Japanese otaku, I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting to import US games more even with the smaller margins. And given the way Nintendo works, that's probably the only scenario they're truly concerned about.
neo2046
BUDDHA AND JESUS
ROLLED INTO ONE
(12-23-2012, 04:52 PM)
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All I want is a region-free firmware
frankie_baby
Member
(12-23-2012, 04:52 PM)

Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

Region locks are confirmed to serve no purpose whatsoever, except obscure licence agreements where licence holder behaves like the customers are still living in Middle Ages not travelling anywhere outside their own country.

Really, it's that simple - Nintendo is not made of geniuses. If GAF cannot come up with convincing argument for region lock, big chance Nintendo cannot either. That doesn't stop they from region locking their devices, and me from buying them as long as they are not region free.

Actually there is one good purpose to the region lock and likely one of the main reasons nintendo went with it, it makes it a lot less practical for people to produce conterfeit games
kobashi100
Banned
(12-23-2012, 04:56 PM)

Originally Posted by androvsky

From what I can tell it's becoming a real problem with anime blu-rays in Japan. The pricing there is vastly higher than the US, and combined with the weak dollar means sales of the US blu-rays on Amazon.co.jp are supposedly quite a bit higher than the Japanese releases. One publisher is starting to force the US publishers to wait a year before putting out blu-rays, and Index forced the Persona 4 blu-ray to be dub-only because of it. If that's working out well for the Japanese otaku, I wouldn't be surprised if they're starting to import US games more even with the smaller margins. And given the way Nintendo works, that's probably the only scenario they're truly concerned about.

wow! thank for the info..

didnt think about japan importing from the west.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
(12-23-2012, 05:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by frankie_baby

Actually there is one good purpose to the region lock and likely one of the main reasons nintendo went with it, it makes it a lot less practical for people to produce conterfeit games

This is absolute nonsense. If you've read that somewhere, you've bought into some creamy bullshit.
Tenki
Member
(12-23-2012, 05:20 PM)
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I want a region-free 3DS, but I don't want other things that come along with hacking.
wsippel
(12-23-2012, 05:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Pie and Beans

This is absolute nonsense. If you've read that somewhere, you've bought into some creamy bullshit.

It actually isn't. It's certainly not the main reason, but it is true that pirates essentially have to produce five different versions of counterfeit games on region locked systems if they target the global market, spreading their resources thinner and making logistics a lot more complicated. They only need one or two versions on region free systems.
The Hermit
Member
(12-23-2012, 05:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by neo2046

All I want is a region-free firmware

me too, I want to know if EX troopers is that good.
androvsky
Member
(12-23-2012, 05:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by kobashi100

wow! thank for the info..

didnt think about japan importing from the west.

I forgot to mention but it's probably generally known, the blu-ray region is the same for the US and Japan. So publishers can region lock all they want and it's still a problem.

One might think that dropping prices in Japan and not pandering to the drooling fans would result in better sales on both sides of the Pacific, but even the US market is starting to respond to the Japanese approach.

Originally Posted by wsippel

It actually isn't. It's certainly not the main reason, but it is true that pirates essentially have to produce five different versions of counterfeit games on region locked systems if they target the global market, spreading their resources thinner and making logistics a lot more complicated. They only need one or two versions on region free systems.

Even games on region-free consoles tend to have differences between regions, mainly in content and labeling, resulting in most of the same logistical headaches.
KojiKnight
Member
(12-23-2012, 05:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

It actually isn't. It's certainly not the main reason, but it is true that pirates essentially have to produce five different versions of counterfeit games on region locked systems if they target the global market, spreading their resources thinner and making logistics a lot more complicated. They only need one or two versions on region free systems.

Pirate groups are small and disorganized by DESIGN. The smaller you are, the easier it is to go unnoticed and not caught. As such, small groups tend to focus on a specific region (usually their home region) because it's easiest/safest to market your 'wares' in a small area.

Region coding doesn't effect them much in that sense. Any "benefit" region curries against bootlegs is minimal at best.
wsippel
(12-23-2012, 06:01 PM)

Originally Posted by KojiKnight

Pirate groups are small and disorganized by DESIGN. The smaller you are, the easier it is to go unnoticed and not caught. As such, small groups tend to focus on a specific region (usually their home region) because it's easiest/safest to market your 'wares' in a small area.

Region coding doesn't effect them much in that sense. Any "benefit" region curries against bootlegs is minimal at best.

We're not talking about sceners, we're talking about professional bootleggers manufacturing counterfeit retail games and selling them globally via eBay.
Graphics Horse
graphics horse
graphics horse
does whatever a
graphics horse does
(12-23-2012, 06:05 PM)
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That doesn't sound like a gigantic problem for pirates worth hobbling your platform over.
It just means they have to make 3 versions and label them on eBay appropriately, like the 3 versions of nintendogs. It's not like you have to check the location of the seller, the seller would be bidding for a specific regional copy as advertised.
You could argue that releasing loads of new games would hinder pirates too.
Last edited by Graphics Horse; 12-23-2012 at 06:12 PM.
Tagg9
Member
(12-23-2012, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

That doesn't sound like a gigantic problem for pirates worth hobbling your platform over.
It just means they have to make 3 versions and label them on eBay appropriately, like the 3 versions of nintendogs.
You could argue that releasing loads of new games would hinder pirates too.

Pretty sure that eBay listings would get shut down very quickly. The only place this will work is in third world countries or places like South America where this kind of thing is prevalent.
Omikaru
Banned
(12-23-2012, 06:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

It actually isn't. It's certainly not the main reason, but it is true that pirates essentially have to produce five different versions of counterfeit games on region locked systems if they target the global market, spreading their resources thinner and making logistics a lot more complicated. They only need one or two versions on region free systems.

What a pile of dogshit.

If you can counterfiet games, you've already bypassed the system's DRM. If you've bypassed the system's DRM, then you've also bypassed the region lock. Pirates would only need one version of the game (language issues aside, of course) if they were running a counterfeiting operation.

The only valid excuse for region locking is price fixing. The sooner hackers abolish it, the better.
wsippel
(12-23-2012, 06:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

That doesn't sound like a gigantic problem for pirates worth hobbling your platform over.
It just means they have to make 3 versions and label them on eBay appropriately, like the 3 versions of nintendogs. It's not like you have to check the location of the seller, the seller would be bidding for a specific regional copy.
You could argue that releasing loads of new games would hinder pirates too.

With more versions and lower production runs, the price per unit goes up. It's also not exactly trivial for bootleggers to accurately predict regional demand, so warehousing, sellouts and excess stock suddenly become a bigger issue.


Originally Posted by Omikaru

What a pile of dogshit.

If you can counterfiet games, you've already bypassed the system's DRM. If you've bypassed the system's DRM, then you've also bypassed the region lock. Pirates would only need one version of the game (language issues aside, of course) if they were running a counterfeiting operation.

The only valid excuse for region locking is price fixing. The sooner hackers abolish it, the better.

Sorry, but you're quite wrong. You don't need to bypass the DRM, let alone the region lock, to manufacture counterfeit games. Good counterfeit copies don't require hacked systems, they're exact clones of original games - DRM and region lock fully intact. Yes, price fixing is the main reason. Doesn't change the fact that it also makes the lifes of bootleggers a little harder.
Last edited by wsippel; 12-23-2012 at 06:21 PM.
M3d10n
Member
(12-23-2012, 10:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by Omikaru

What a pile of dogshit.

If you can counterfiet games, you've already bypassed the system's DRM. If you've bypassed the system's DRM, then you've also bypassed the region lock. Pirates would only need one version of the game (language issues aside, of course) if they were running a counterfeiting operation.

The only valid excuse for region locking is price fixing. The sooner hackers abolish it, the better.

Creating 1:1 copies of games is completely different than bypassing a region lock or running homebrew. Most people can easily run pirated games on a 360, but you need to go through hell to get homebrew running.
The_Joker
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:12 PM)
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new picture



he/they is/are getting forward
Sammy Samusu
I should post less pop-gaf speak spam. It's bad for my health.
(12-28-2012, 02:23 PM)
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Can't say I'm happy. Region free is cool, but it comes with an expense: piracy and cheaters.

The thought of hackers destroying MK7 and eventually MH4 makes me cringe. Ugh.
Kyoufu
(12-28-2012, 02:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sammy Samusu

Can't say I'm happy. Region free is cool, but it comes with an expense: piracy and cheaters.

The thought of hackers destroying MK7 and eventually MH4 makes me cringe. Ugh.

PSP getting hacked did wonders for Monster Hunter on that system. You do know that right?
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(12-28-2012, 02:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sammy Samusu

Can't say I'm happy. Region free is cool, but it comes with an expense: piracy and cheaters.

The thought of hackers destroying MK7 and eventually MH4 makes me cringe. Ugh.

How bad was Monster Hunter Tri hacking?
You played with randoms?
mugurumakensei
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by The_Joker

new picture



he/they is/are getting forward

Xcution.... Hmm...
Somebody a Bleach fan?
Sammy Samusu
I should post less pop-gaf speak spam. It's bad for my health.
(12-28-2012, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

PSP getting hacked did wonders for Monster Hunter on that system. You do know that right?

You mean Kai and translation patches? I never played MHFU online. Like I said, good things can come out of a hacked system, but there's a cost to be paid.

Originally Posted by dallow_bg

How bad was Monster Hunter Tri hacking?
You played with randoms?

MH3 runs on Capcom servers, I have read reports of hackers, but never found one myself. And I played that game for a long time.

Mario Kart Wii on the other hand is unplayable thanks to cheaters.
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(12-28-2012, 02:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sammy Samusu

You mean Kai and translation patches? I never played MHFU online. Like I said, good things can come out of a hacked system, but there's a cost to be paid.


MH3 runs on Capcom servers, I have read reports of hackers, but never found one myself. And I played that game for a long time.

Mario Kart Wii on the other hand is unplayable thanks to cheaters.

Wii couldn't be patched.
3DS and Wii U should be fine.
realraptor
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:42 PM)
Via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

Reasons for regional lockout

Some of the reasons for regional lockout are as follows:

Pricing. It is difficult to maintain a single pricing structure that can be applied worldwide. Region-locking a console means that there is no need for pricing parity across the world; different territories can have different prices for games without people simply shopping "wherever is cheaper".

Sensitive regions. Some games could be regarded as offensive for religious or political reasons, and regional lockout may be required to prevent these games from being distributed in sensitive countries.

Staggered launches. If a console is region-locked, then staggered launches of the games would be easier, as console producers could easily control the huge bow-wave of people wanting a game the moment it is released.

beril
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by The_Joker

new picture



he/they is/are getting forward

That icon is from the Nintendo sample demos, which would imply whoever this is has access to the SDK. Or that picture could just be a dev having a laugh
Sammy Samusu
I should post less pop-gaf speak spam. It's bad for my health.
(12-28-2012, 02:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by realraptor

Via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

Sony: (laughs)
witchedwiz
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:50 PM)
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I'm with nintendo as far as piracy goes, but the moment a hw manufacturer implements any region lock of sorts they loose all my support..
Heck, when most of those i knew pirated the hell out of ds/psp i kept true, thinking that i owe the developers that much...
But region locked 3ds is a joke....
Berg
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by realraptor

Via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

All points I've never thought of. Tho, I too, wish they would localize more. Maybe those games have some anti-american content in them?
EuropeOG
Banned
(12-28-2012, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by witchedwiz

I'm with nintendo as far as piracy goes, but the moment a hw manufacturer implements any region lock of sorts they loose all my support..
Heck, when most of those i knew pirated the hell out of ds/psp i kept true, thinking that i owe the developers that much...
But region locked 3ds is a joke....

So this is your excuse for pirating 3DS games if it should get hacked?
wsippel
(12-28-2012, 02:55 PM)

Originally Posted by beril

That icon is from the Nintendo sample demos, which would imply whoever this is has access to the SDK. Or that picture could just be a dev having a laugh

Xcution does have the SDK and a Panda unit if I remember correctly.
Tenki
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:55 PM)
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If this finally gets to piracy, will we see even less games localized?
watershed
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:57 PM)
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I hope the 3ds doesn't get hacked. I don't want developers to lose profit and abandon the platform.
Zeroth
Member
(12-28-2012, 02:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by EuropeOG

So this is your excuse for pirating 3DS games if it should get hacked?

I'm not sure where you read that bit. All he said was that he doesn't support Nintendo's take on region locking, unless you're implying "having a hacked console == piracy".
iceatcs
Junior Member
(12-28-2012, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by realraptor

Via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_lockout

These wording much more make the scene if it is for digital content.

Maybe that's why some of the digital era haven't move on away from region lock yet.
Takao
Hello friend!
Have you heard the good news about Medabots?!
(12-28-2012, 02:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Berg

All points I've never thought of. Tho, I too, wish they would localize more. Maybe those games have some anti-american content in them?

lol
Anoregon
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by watershed

I hope the 3ds doesn't get hacked. I don't want developers to lose profit and abandon the platform.


The DS was hacked, and I think it would be more than a stretch to imply that occurred with that system.
El Pescado
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tenki

If this finally gets to piracy, will we see even less games localized?

Probably. Devs have used it as an excuse for not localizing games in the past at the very least
watershed
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anoregon

The DS was hacked, and I think it would be more than a stretch to imply that occurred with that system.

Maybe in terms of devs abandoning the system but how many legit sales were lost to pirates? I even know some parents who the flashcart scene and downloaded games for their kids instead of buying them. I'm not a fan of that.
EuropeOG
Banned
(12-28-2012, 03:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zeroth

I'm not sure where you read that bit. All he said was that he doesn't support Nintendo's take on region locking, unless you're implying "having a hacked console == piracy".

I read the bit where he basically says he didn't pirate because he felt he owed them something (due to DS and PSP being region free).

With 3DS being locked he is implying what?
Mandoric
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:09 PM)

Originally Posted by Berg

All points I've never thought of. Tho, I too, wish they would localize more. Maybe those games have some anti-american content in them?

Nothing as "fun" as that. It's just a lot more expensive to launch a niche game in the US than in Japan; you have to put three or four copies in every Walmart, K-mart, Target, Best Buy, and EB, and that shit adds up. Your media campaign is also a lot more expensive as you need to saturate a range of cable networks with extremely scattershot, less "event" programming rather than Japan's clearly-defined "nerdy" timeblocks of tune-in-every-week shows on a few nationwide broadcast networks (this is an oversimplification); plus, you've gotta keep the IGN/1up/etc hype engines primed with cash and schwag when they tend to consider handheld and Wii intern territory, while in Japan you have to do far less arm-twisting and only at Famitsu.

Europe's even worse, because you've got to slop together an even more fragmented push in five different languages.

That said, I think that with the Euro price collapse region-locking for games is basically a nonissue. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that its presence on DSi/3DS is just part of a wider attempt to reach out to the rare few third parties who have serious reasons to care.
rjc571
Junior Member
(12-28-2012, 03:10 PM)

Originally Posted by EuropeOG

I read the bit where he basically says he didn't pirate because he felt he owed them something (due to DS and PSP being region free).

With 3DS being locked he is implying what?

Where the hell are you getting anything about the DS and PSP being region free from his post? All he said is that he owed the developers his support. Stop trying to accuse people of pirating if you don't have any proof.
Zeroth
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by EuropeOG

I read the bit where he basically says he didn't pirate because he felt he owed them something (due to DS and PSP being region free).

With 3DS being locked he is implying what?

I'm pretty sure he simply said that he didn't pirate even when everyone else was because he felt he owed the devs for all those people who were indeed pirating. It has nothing to do with region-locking systems or not.
redlemon
Member
(12-28-2012, 03:28 PM)

Originally Posted by Tenki

If this finally gets to piracy, will we see even less games localized?

Depends on how easy it is for the average consumer to implement I imagine. I don't think it has much of an impact on niche games since they tend to sell so little anyways and games were still getting localised for ds and psp even when they were broke wide open.
GaussTek
Member
(12-30-2012, 04:15 PM)
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An update, hopefully hasn't been posted:

From Neimod and yellows8 (via GBATemp):

[07:51:56] <@neimod> full control of the 3ds in kernel mode (arm9 & arm11) from an unmodified 3ds :]
[07:53:03] <EdTheNerd> HHNNNNGGGGG
[07:53:05] <@neimod> the sky is the limit!
[07:53:17] <EdTheNerd> Gib romz plox
[07:53:50] <@neimod> in theory it's possible
[07:53:52] <EdTheNerd> Now then, make it do somethig cool, while displaying GBA TEMP BLOWS somewhere on the screen
[07:54:04] <EdTheNerd> Then enjoy the show
[07:54:36] <EdTheNerd> "neimod: in theory it's possible"
[07:55:02] <EdTheNerd> T-10 seconds before gbatemp quotes that and pisses itself like an excited dog
[07:55:59] <jse> nice work neimod
[07:56:02] <jse> congrats
[07:57:34] <@neimod> unfortunately, we are elitist bastards who never share anything, so kiss that warez loader goodbye
[07:58:01] <EdTheNerd> So not to try to pry to much info here, but is this something you need a specific game/app for?
[07:58:31] <EdTheNerd> Should i by buying all of the eshop now?
[07:58:35] <@neimod> it's based on a specific card-based game
[07:58:39] <EdTheNerd> Nice
[07:58:58] <EdTheNerd> How patchable would you say this is?
[07:59:06] <@neimod> very easily

[07:59:12] <EdTheNerd>
[07:59:41] <EdTheNerd> Still, amazeing work as always
[07:59:46] <EdTheNerd> Congrats!
[08:00:10] <@yellows8> SD version can be used too but ofc one has to run code first for that.
[08:00:19] <EdTheNerd> Now take careof that pesky region lock!
[08:00:33] <EdTheNerd> Could such a thing be posible with this now?
[08:01:55] <@neimod> yes, with full kernel control anything is possible

Getting close guys! :O

Originally Posted by GaussTek

Getting close guys! :O

[07:58:58] <EdTheNerd> How patchable would you say this is?
[07:59:06] <@neimod> very easily

.
dallow_bg
nods at old men
(12-30-2012, 04:18 PM)
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Card based game.
I wonder which.

Funny because UNO is the latest PSP/Vita game with a PSP kernel exploit.
GaussTek
Member
(12-30-2012, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by donny2112

.

Just if you decide to update haha. Hopefully they also can find out a method to skip an update for getting into the eShop or something like that lol
Ridley327
Member
(12-30-2012, 04:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by dallow_bg

Card based game.
I wonder which.

You have no idea how hard I'll laugh if it turns out to be Steel Diver.

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