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duckroll · May 23, 2013

http://www.gamer.ne.jp/news/201305230010/

Remember when the director of the game recently told fans at an event that they were planning paid DLC content, but would make sure that the DLC were not easy cash grabs and were actually substantial value to players? LOL!!!!!!

Featuring... DAY ONE DLC for a costume and exp-grab quest! Welcome our new Index overlords! Did you like paying premium price for one of the most expensive 3DS games to date? Now you can continuing throwing even more money at the company you love so much!

This is a pack of 3 different hairstyles you can give the main character. The DLC is free. Cool. So if it's free why isn't it part of the game? Who knows.

---

This is an exclusive silver samurai costume. It costs 100yen until June 10, at which point the price will go up to 200yen. But wait, it's not just cosmetic armor. It is "effective for tackling areas early in the game"! Pay2win!

---

Next up is a 250yen Challenge Quest from Charon which opens up a new field in the game featuring enemies who drop items which can increase your experience! Sounds like a good place to farm for levels! And if you fulfil certain conditions (probably completing the quest), you can fuse a brand new demon.... Oread! Except she looks exactly like a color swap of Napaea! Lol! Amazing!

RyougaSaotome · May 23, 2013

I really have no idea who would pay for this. There's an easy mode in the game and it's not even remotely impossible to to move forward.

So odd.

Glass Rebel · May 23, 2013

The DLC hairstyles look pretty ass.

The easy mode costume looks ass as well.

Challenge quest sounds ass too.

Not sure what to think.

IrishNinja · May 23, 2013

you know i was really bummed about this transpiring, but duckroll's upbeat manner has me thinking everything's coming up milhouse!

Damo Yoshi · May 23, 2013

Ducky are you mad?

It's okay to be mad.

... I'm just glad we're getting the game at all! =( (RIP Strange Journey)

BGBW · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
Now you can continuing throwing even more money at the company you love so much!

So Nintendo is also getting a cut from the profits?

Forkball · May 23, 2013

This is how they get you. It's like Fire Emblem. At first you're happy cause they give you free stuff, and next you're paying $5 to see Tharja in a swimsuit. Or Mara for SMT IV in this case.

Principate · May 23, 2013

Probably because of manufacturing and this content didn't make it on time so they added it through DLC. Or the above

Hot Coldman · May 23, 2013

So... what you're saying is, all this DLC is worthless and thus can be ignored without missing out on anything?

Great!

Hours Left · May 23, 2013

Forkball said:
This is how they get you. It's like Fire Emblem. At first you're happy cause they give you free stuff, and next you're paying $5 to see Tharja in a swimsuit. Or Mara for SMT IV in this case.

The DLC in Fire Emblem is all pretty legit IMO. Some games I'd feel a bit iffy about supporting some of the DLC, but I had no qualms about any of the Fire Emblem stuff.

Ryuukan · May 23, 2013

The point of free DLC is to get people to look at the list and see the paid ones.

also · May 23, 2013

Gunloc said:
The DLC in Fire Emblem is all pretty legit IMO. Some games I'd feel a bit iffy about supporting some of the DLC, but I had no qualms about any of the Fire Emblem stuff.

Aren't some some of the DLC maps designed for easy gold farming? Paying for ''easy mode'' doesn't seem legit.

Eusis · May 23, 2013

Atmej said:
Aren't some some of the DLC maps designed for easy gold farming? Paying for ''easy mode'' doesn't seem legit.

Eh, I consider there to be something of a hierarchy, and frankly I'd much rather have that than paying for EXP/Gold/Items straight up. Make me work for that, even if it's relatively minimal. This looks to be tip toeing to the edge, but if the main game's balanced fine I'll deal, honestly it sounds like stupid crap they made up after the fact.

Hours Left · May 23, 2013

Atmej said:
Aren't some some of the DLC maps designed for easy gold farming? Paying for ''easy mode'' doesn't seem legit.

The way that this Fire Emblem is made, gold is never a problem, even with no paid DLC.

NeonZ · May 23, 2013

So, the green Nemea is actually Oread, a different demon (Reminds me of all the pallet swaps in SMT 1...)? I wonder if these DLC demons will get descriptions in the compendium...

Atmej said:
Aren't some some of the DLC maps designed for easy gold farming? Paying for ''easy mode'' doesn't seem legit.

There are three DLC maps for farming. It's one map for gold farming, one for experience farming and one to get copies of legendary weapons. You can farm gold in the game without that DLC map anyway, it just takes longer. The experience map is tied to the game's usual experience system, so it becomes useless in later levels compared to other maps or even skirmishes. It is a much faster way to grow lower level characters though. The Legendary weapons mechanically aren't that good either, with some strong forged weapons surpassing them.

The legendary weapons map is the only one that attempts to put up a real challenge, although the player can still lose units in the other two if he doesn't pay attention to which enemy he's attacking. They also include some humorous stories (and actually a fairly big revelation in the Legendary weapons map if you use certain characters) and quotes for every default playable character. I don't think they're exactly a great example of DLC, but it's not as bad as just buying in game resources.

toastyToast · May 23, 2013

That silver samurai outfit looks kind of fly tho

also · May 23, 2013

NeonZ said:
There are three DLC maps for farming. It's one map for gold farming, one for experience farming and one to get copies of legendary weapons. You can farm gold in the game without that DLC map anyway, it just takes longer. The experience map is tied to the game's usual experience system, so it becomes useless in later levels compared to other maps or even skirmishes. It is a much faster way to grow lower level characters though. The Legendary weapons mechanically aren't that good either, with some strong forged weapons surpassing them.

The legendary weapons map is the only one that attempts to put up a real challange, although the player can still lose units in the other two if he doesn't pay attention to who he's attacking. They also include some humorous stories and quotes for every default playable character. I don't think they're exactly a great example of DLC, but it's not as bad as just buying resources.

I suppose the added dialogue makes it a bit better but it's still depressing to see Nintendo selling gold and exp. ''cheats''.

duckroll · May 23, 2013

Atmej said:
I suppose the added dialogue makes it a bit better but it's still depressing to see Nintendo selling gold and exp. ''cheats''.

I think the larger issue for me isn't that they're just selling gold and exp. What's more disappointing is how many developers don't really tap into the full potential of DLC to deliver content which would really enhance and benefit a game. What we're looking at are cheap piecemeal content which aren't really meaningful or substantial. It's the same problem FFXIII-2 had, despite the promises of the team that they wanted to have worthwhile story scenarios offered via DLC.

NeonZ · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
I think the larger issue for me isn't that they're just selling gold and exp. What's more disappointing is how many developers don't really tap into the full potential of DLC to deliver content which would really enhance and benefit a game. What we're looking at are cheap piecemeal content which aren't really meaningful or substantial. It's the same problem FFXIII-2 had, despite the promises of the team that they wanted to have worthwhile story scenarios offered via DLC.

Well, at least in Fire Emblem, there are groups of dlc maps that together do form alternate campaign(s), in spite of the maps all being sold individually. Of course, the story is simpler and more episodic than the main game's. They could do something like that here if they tie the DLC missions to some plot element or location that only exists in the DLC.

I get what you're saying though - even in that example they still cost more and have less content than actual expansion packs that PC games used to get.

also · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
I think the larger issue for me isn't that they're just selling gold and exp. What's more disappointing is how many developers don't really tap into the full potential of DLC to deliver content which would really enhance and benefit a game. What we're looking at are cheap piecemeal content which aren't really meaningful or substantial. It's the same problem FFXIII-2 had, despite the promises of the team that they wanted to have worthwhile story scenarios offered via DLC.

I think that's because substantial post-launch DLC would require a big change in project management, which could be potentially risky.
First, any meaningful content would usually require the game to be designed to support it. That's easy enough for level based games with no or little story but how do you do it in story heavy games? It's hard to deliver a really satisfying ending while also leave room for expansion. Sure, the DLC could take place mid-game, but then you run the risk of the players, who already completed the game, not being able to access it (Mass Effect comes to mind) or be way too overpowered for the content to be interesting.
Then there's also the issue of how front-loaded most games are. When you release DLC months after the game was completed (good DLC does take time), will people even care or will they have moved on already? Wouldn't it be better to just start working on a new tittle, which can benefit from launch hype?
On the other hand, if you develop DLC alongside the main game and release it on day 1, costumers will keep asking why do they have to pay extra when they already bought the game. It doesn't matter if the game is full of content, the story is complete and the additional content wouldn't have been made if it weren't possible to sell it as DLC, day 1 DLC just leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Also, if your game bombs and doesn't have a dedicated fanbase, you just wasted time and money planning for DLC no one will buy instead of developing a new potential hit.

This summer, Level 5 and Nintendo are releasing the first big 3DS and Wii U DLC (Fantasy Life, Luigi U), so maybe we will see more of that from Japan.

Mileena · May 23, 2013

$50 and day one DLC. What a shitty company :/

I fully expect people to eat this shit up even though if anyone else did it we'd already have the pitchforks and boycott.

Parakeetman · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
I think the larger issue for me isn't that they're just selling gold and exp. What's more disappointing is how many developers don't really tap into the full potential of DLC to deliver content which would really enhance and benefit a game. What we're looking at are cheap piecemeal content which aren't really meaningful or substantial. It's the same problem FFXIII-2 had, despite the promises of the team that they wanted to have worthwhile story scenarios offered via DLC.

Whats your opinion on the DLC that was released for the latest Fire Emblem for example?

Do agree this day one DLC for SMT IV is a bit

duckroll · May 23, 2013

Parakeetman said:
Whats your opinion on the DLC that was released for the latest Fire Emblem for example?

That was my opinion on the DLC releases for Fire Emblem, and most DLC for JRPGs in general.

Atmej said:
This summer, Level 5 and Nintendo are releasing the first big 3DS and Wii U DLC (Fantasy Life, Luigi U), so maybe we will see more of that from Japan.

Yes I think those will be very interesting tests in terms of how they turn out and how people embrace them. The Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma DLCs are also more in line with what I think gamers today expect in terms of good post-launch DLC. Metal Gear Rising too.

Sammy Samusu · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
I think the larger issue for me isn't that they're just selling gold and exp. What's more disappointing is how many developers don't really tap into the full potential of DLC to deliver content which would really enhance and benefit a game. What we're looking at are cheap piecemeal content which aren't really meaningful or substantial. It's the same problem FFXIII-2 had, despite the promises of the team that they wanted to have worthwhile story scenarios offered via DLC.

AHA! Praise

Level-5

.

duckroll · May 23, 2013

Sammy Samusu said:
AHA! Praise

Level-5

.

It remains to be seen how substantial the Fantasy Life DLC really is though. Especially for 2000yen. It could backfire, especially when the main marketing point for the content is that it allows you to play multiplayer... online now. Something people felt should have been considered in the original release to begin with.

Parakeetman · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
That was my opinion on the DLC releases for Fire Emblem, and most DLC for JRPGs in general.

Yes I think those will be very interesting tests in terms of how they turn out and how people embrace them. The Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma DLCs are also more in line with what I think gamers today expect in terms of good post-launch DLC. Metal Gear Rising too.

At least no one yet has topped banam with the tales gold / exp dlc... at least I hope not anyways.

Oh wait nevermind the wizardry game on the PS3 had something similar.

Yeah do agree with you on what "good" DLC should be.

BlazingDarkness · May 23, 2013

Index, what are you doing? Stahp.

Sage00 · May 23, 2013

Megami Tenpay

Augemitbutter · May 23, 2013

pay to win and costumes. you're breaking my heart, japan. as if casual emblem wasn't enough already. are you gearing up for that cross-over game?

the horror.

Draxal · May 23, 2013

duckroll said:
That was my opinion on the DLC releases for Fire Emblem, and most DLC for JRPGs in general.

Yes I think those will be very interesting tests in terms of how they turn out and how people embrace them. The Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma DLCs are also more in line with what I think gamers today expect in terms of good post-launch DLC. Metal Gear Rising too.

I'll be honest I really don't mind this dlc for JRPGS for Fire Emblem and the SMT as the games are extremely niche. I consider it the premium tax for supporting a dying genre.

Vamphuntr · May 23, 2013

This game keep getting worse to me. After all the dumbing down comes the shitty DLC. Next, we will probably learn the dungeons are like in FF13 or something, that there is a way to auto demon negotiations for them to work 100% of the time and that alignment won't do much in the game.

Good night my sweet, sweet Strange Journey and Soul Hackers. You will be missed my sweet princes.

*crying and shaking*

Busaiku · May 23, 2013

That costume is nice.

Finalow · May 23, 2013

they all suck, and it sucks to have DLCs like these.

Parakeetman · May 23, 2013

Vamphuntr said:
This game keep getting worse to me. After all the dumbing down comes the shitty DLC. Next, we will probably learn the dungeons are like in FF13 or something, that there is a way to auto demon negotiations for them to work 100% of the time and that alignment won't do much in the game.

Good night my sweet, sweet Strange Journey and Soul Hackers. You will be missed my sweet princes.

*crying and shaking*

Its funny its actually a larger pain in the ass to get demons as friends in this game than it is with strange journey. Was getting pissed off for a while to figure out pixie for example.

who shows up later on in the game and not at the start like most of the time. They replaced her spot at the start with the ugly new art / demon I dont recognize.

Augemitbutter said:
pay to win and costumes. you're breaking my heart, japan. as if casual emblem wasn't enough already. are you gearing up for that cross-over game?

the horror.

Whats odd about that armor is if it is indeed "pay to win" armor, then why the hell did they put ice as a weakness on it when right off the bat there is an enemy that can cast bufu which would put you in shit city when its the monsters turn if hit. Kinda scratching my head at that one.

Soriku · May 23, 2013

Yay, ignorable DLC. Thank you Based Atlus.

The Lucifer look is kinda cool though.

zeelman · May 23, 2013

I was hoping Atlus wouldn't pull shit like this. Paying $50 for a 3DS game is enough as it is.

Alrus · May 23, 2013

Eh, it's pointless DLC, none of it seem to really add anything vital to the game, why are people so angry? As long as the game is fully featured as is, I really don't see the problem. (people had the same reaction about some of the FE DLC, I still don't get it).

There's been much much worse examples of day one DLC.

Soriku · May 23, 2013

zeelman said:
I was hoping Atlus wouldn't pull shit like this. Paying $50 for a 3DS game is enough as it is.

I hope Atlus adds swimsuit DLC to Persona 5.

Reluctant-Hero · May 23, 2013

This is disappointing, but not unexpected.

That hair style, and it's variants, are damn hideous. I'll be through a helmet on my MC as fast as I can.

Magicpaint · May 23, 2013

Imagine what they'll be doing for Persona 5 if this is how far they're going with SMTIV.

fates · May 23, 2013

No thanks, I don't do DLC and won't be starting now.

Jotamide · May 23, 2013

Inb4 GAF defends this shit only because it's SMT.

Velcro Fly · May 23, 2013

I mean we knew this had retailer specific preorder bonuses that basically make your MC a walking advertisement for wherever you bought the game. We knew DLC was coming for this game and now that we know what kind of DLC is coming, we can all band together to not buy any of the shitty kind. Give us DLC that expands on the main game, not stuff that makes it easier for us to progress. I'm absolutely not defending this but I'm still going to keep my preorder. But I really doubt I'm buying any DLC for this game unless it expands upon the game in some meaningful way and doesn't just reduce the difficulty or make other game mechanics a lot easier.

LiquidMetal14 · May 23, 2013

This is worse than horse armor.

Shinta · May 23, 2013

Wait, you can actually see the characters in this game? Guess they're just costumes for walking around the map.

Lunar15 · May 23, 2013

Thanks, Fire Emblem: Awakening.

Mauricio_Magus · May 23, 2013

I'm actually disappointed at Index for this, Atlus is my absolutely favorite company and the only one that I buy their games blindly day 1.

I hope it DLC keeps being stuff that doesn't matter.

Don't you fucking touch Etrian Odyssey, Index!

dakkumauji · May 23, 2013

Lunar15 said:
Thanks, Fire Emblem: Awakening.

I would so buy costumes for Fire Emblem.

Lunar15 · May 23, 2013

dakkumauji said:
I would so buy costumes for Fire Emblem.

Why?

Mauricio_Magus · May 23, 2013

GAF is too busy hating the Xbone to care about this.

Damn you, Index

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