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Damsel in Distress: Part 3 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - Yes, There Are Spoilers
- Thread starter ponpo
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polyh3dron
Banned
She's just cranking these out isn't she?
NoirVisage
Banned
actually, no.
My problem with this video series is they don't come out in a timely fashion.
polyh3dron
Banned
I wonder how long it'll be before the kneejerk YouTube DMCA takedown.
Crash55118
Member
I didn't like her Castle Crashers and Earthworm Jim examples of pulling out the rug from underneath the player upon completing the game.
It is simply a purposeful slight against the player - meaning that all their time spent/trials overcome were ultimately pointless.
It is simply a purposeful slight against the player - meaning that all their time spent/trials overcome were ultimately pointless.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
Gah, spoilers again. So I have to skip this one too since I've yet to play Braid.
partyphone
Banned
Braid dies.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
Braid is in this? I wonder what she has to say about this.
Wrestlemania
Banned
That's it's a good example of successfully subverting the damsel trope.
She's saying just because you can swap the sprite that doesn't make the damsel in distress less of an issue.
partyphone
Banned
Fat Princess is literally an object.
Cool, I always enjoy these.
There's probably one counter-example that doesn't fit what she says, though, so she is entirely wrong about everything and should remove herself from the public eye and realize sexism was invented by angry feminists who want only to ruin mens' lives because they have issues with their fathers.
There's probably one counter-example that doesn't fit what she says, though, so she is entirely wrong about everything and should remove herself from the public eye and realize sexism was invented by angry feminists who want only to ruin mens' lives because they have issues with their fathers.
mysteriousmage09
Member
This video was really drawn out, it can simply be summarized with "Enough with the tired trope with damsels in distress, if you make a game using that plot device, don't make the damsel an object that does nothing".
And that game idea she has, why not, if it was fun i'd play it. Also, instead of saying "why aren't their games like this?" put some of that stack of cash into, I don't know, making a game with those view points?
And that game idea she has, why not, if it was fun i'd play it. Also, instead of saying "why aren't their games like this?" put some of that stack of cash into, I don't know, making a game with those view points?
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
That doesn't surprise me. Braid's ending sequence is fantastic.
Zombie James
Banned
Fuck, Braid spoiled. Can anyone post a time stamp so I can watch around it?
Braid is 18:32 to 19:32.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I dont get how she throws Super Meat Boy in that. In the IndieGame Movie EdmundMcMillen even explains why they use the old "trope" for this game and goes into detail, that Meatboy is the meat and Bandagegirl is what makes him complete.
They also had other ideas, but to them that fittet the best IIRC.
And why she even mentions that if you feed the Fat Princess so she will weigh 300tons she will get less feminine. I mean, of course obese women dont really appear feminine at all (to me)...
They also had other ideas, but to them that fittet the best IIRC.
And why she even mentions that if you feed the Fat Princess so she will weigh 300tons she will get less feminine. I mean, of course obese women dont really appear feminine at all (to me)...
She did in last video, and looking at the list of games in the OP, she does the same in this one.
She's gotta find the youtube videos to use as footage. Zing.
I can't wait until she gets to the later videos, where something of actual merit may come.
Conciliator
Banned
I liked it, pretty interesting. Haven't watched one since the original I think. Princess Peach mood swing stuff is pretty goofy, didn't know about that!
EDIT: I disagree with her on Spelunky though, I appreciated Spelunky's rescue-choice-thing.
EDIT: I disagree with her on Spelunky though, I appreciated Spelunky's rescue-choice-thing.
yeah she spoiled some pretty recent games in her last video.
For the most part I liked it. I'm more interested in a new trope after three on this topic, but it did feel necessary to cover the amount of material on this one.
Happy to see Beyond Good & Evil get a nod of approval. I did wonder what was going to be said when I saw the name listed in the description.
You don't solve a problematic trope or device by simply dragging a wider variety of people/dogs into it.
This episode has a whole section dedicated to indie games from recent years. The last episode also had a decent emphasis on more modern titles.
Happy to see Beyond Good & Evil get a nod of approval. I did wonder what was going to be said when I saw the name listed in the description.
You don't solve a problematic trope or device by simply dragging a wider variety of people/dogs into it.
This episode has a whole section dedicated to indie games from recent years. The last episode also had a decent emphasis on more modern titles.
Sentenza
Member
Best site on the internet, by the way.
I don't know what the fuck it's about, all I know is that Jonathan Blow was pissed off and personally offended that nobody could figure it out.
That would require extra research
MikeXXIeaf
Banned
To prolong the discussion I'd assume.
Wrestlemania
Banned
Nothing there contradicts her issues with using those tropes.
mysteriousmage09
Member
The video is basically "damsels in distress plot is still shit as of my last video, here's another list of games with them".
Oh, SPP. The ending is pure gold.
So Peach salvages this artefact, called the Vibe Scepter, right? And the narration follows:
Chairmanchuck
Member
Sure, but if you already have a series, talk about this Game and have an official stance on why the developers used this trope, she could at least say like 10 seconds about it. I mean she says she wanna analyze these tropes at the beginning of the video, but right now she just lines up games without any big analyzing happening besides stating her opinion.
polyh3dron
Banned
I OMG'd a few times at the Spelunky thing.
First, that there is actually an option to change the "damsel" to a male or a dog which is a hilarious cosmetic change but is obviously something done to pander to critics such as Anita. That is completely ridiculous in and of itself.
Then Anita breaks it down and says "THIS" (pointing to the female skinned damsel) is a problem while "THIS" (points to the male skinned damsel) is not. The female damsel being a problem because it reinforces negative stereotypes about women while the male one doesn't reinforce any negative stereotypes about men. I mean seriously, a developer bends over backwards trying to please this current wave of critics who are blaming them for making sexist games and they still can't get a break.
Then she goes into another diatribe giving props to character swapped ROM hacks where Zelda is trying to rescue Link, whatever that girl's name is in Donkey Kong is trying to rescue Mario and so on.
In the Legend of Zelda, Link is a nobody, while Zelda is the Princess of fucking Hyrule. First of all, why would Ganon go to the trouble of invading Hyrule to kidnap some random kid? Ganon's mission is to acquire the Triforce. Link doesn't have any pieces of it. He's not exactly a high value hostage worth invading a kingdom for.
For the sake of argument however, let's say Ganon did kidnap Link for some reason. The Princess doesn't know him, so why would she be personally invested in his safety to the point of actually going on a solo mission to save him without using the army at her disposal? Hacking The Legend Of Zelda to make Zelda the protag and Link the hostage makes absolutely no sense, but it gets praise from Anita.
She then says "Ultimately, we need to think beyond the cliché altogether." So no more kidnapping allowed in games from now on.
First, that there is actually an option to change the "damsel" to a male or a dog which is a hilarious cosmetic change but is obviously something done to pander to critics such as Anita. That is completely ridiculous in and of itself.
Then Anita breaks it down and says "THIS" (pointing to the female skinned damsel) is a problem while "THIS" (points to the male skinned damsel) is not. The female damsel being a problem because it reinforces negative stereotypes about women while the male one doesn't reinforce any negative stereotypes about men. I mean seriously, a developer bends over backwards trying to please this current wave of critics who are blaming them for making sexist games and they still can't get a break.
Then she goes into another diatribe giving props to character swapped ROM hacks where Zelda is trying to rescue Link, whatever that girl's name is in Donkey Kong is trying to rescue Mario and so on.
In the Legend of Zelda, Link is a nobody, while Zelda is the Princess of fucking Hyrule. First of all, why would Ganon go to the trouble of invading Hyrule to kidnap some random kid? Ganon's mission is to acquire the Triforce. Link doesn't have any pieces of it. He's not exactly a high value hostage worth invading a kingdom for.
For the sake of argument however, let's say Ganon did kidnap Link for some reason. The Princess doesn't know him, so why would she be personally invested in his safety to the point of actually going on a solo mission to save him without using the army at her disposal? Hacking The Legend Of Zelda to make Zelda the protag and Link the hostage makes absolutely no sense, but it gets praise from Anita.
She then says "Ultimately, we need to think beyond the cliché altogether." So no more kidnapping allowed in games from now on.
Zombie James
Banned
In case people didn't see this from yesterday...
Some what related:
Excellent post and spot on.
Some what related:
Deified Data said:Call it the Chell Effect:
The phenomenon which sees otherwise rational gaming enthusiasts demanding asexual depictions of women in games as an alternative to more sexualized depictions, totally oblivious to the notion that what they demand is every bit as sexist as the alternative.
The first step to throwing off the shackles of sexism in the gaming community is to stop focusing so much on appearance and focus more on character. It's my belief that a female character could run around totally nude and flaunt her sexuality flagrantly and still be an interesting character with depth so long as she's written that way. Her appearance isn't what's holding her back - it's the mindset of the men (probably) writing her.
Now, can appearance lend itself to having that negative mindset? Absolutely. Seeing sexualized caricatures of women can hammer home the belief that women are meant to be sexual objects. But the depiction is not the source. That rests in family, community, culture, what have you - videogames are the last place people should expect to receive accurate depictions of women (or anyone, for that matter) from, but it is what it is.
I think we can all agree that women need and deserve more varied representation in gaming - they shouldn't all be sexual objects or chaste, asexual Nice Guy fantasies of what they presume an empowered woman should look like.
Excellent post and spot on.
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