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Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

Incoming crow buffet for everyone who predicted a casual game and the death of the series when the sequel was announced!

It's a pretty hefty, detailed article, so here's the rundown:

Possible to be invaded while hollow.
Humanity scrapped, replaced with a single item like Stone of Ephemeral Eyes.
Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%.
White phantoms now have a limited duration, may have to leave sooner if they do too much work for the host player.
More visible blood stains and messages thanks to being server-based instead of P2P, messages no longer require an item to write.
Way of Blue covenant summons a player phantom to help defend if you get invaded.
3 item slots per hand, 10 consumable item slots. UI is much denser and more detailed, less scrolling necessary.
Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

You'd better get ready to die.

Soriku · Sep 19, 2013

Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%

Oh hell no. Are they bringing the Cling Ring from Demon's back?

Mike M · Sep 19, 2013

Invaded while hollow is some bullshit. Coupled with DeS-esque HP penalty? Bullshit squared, the first news out of this game's development to legitimately be a detractor for me.

Way of the Blue sounds like it fills a needed niche in the Coveneant system.

Ultryx · Sep 19, 2013

Possible to be invaded while hollow.

This is some bull shit. That was my one, single saving grace to keep my sanity.

Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

Soriku said:
Oh hell no. Are they bringing the Cling Ring from Demon's back?

Counting on it. Short of that, I bet there's some other way of decreasing the HP penalty.

Mike M said:
Invaded while hollow is some bullshit.

Way of the Blue sounds like it fills a needed niche in the Coveneant system.

Hopefully the server system means invasions are handled a little more carefully to keep them from getting completely out of hand.

FluxWaveZ · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Possible to be invaded while hollow.

Heh, everyone's fucked.

Level balancing essential.

The Hermit · Sep 19, 2013

...

fuck

FateBreaker · Sep 19, 2013

FluxWaveZ said:
Heh, everyone's fucked.

I suddenly had an urge not to play this game. I mean, seriously? That is insane.

Amir0x · Sep 19, 2013

And here I was worried this game would get easier

Fuck. YES

totowhoa · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Hopefully the server system means invasions are handled a little more carefully to keep them from getting completely out of hand.

That's a good point, and it would make a lot of sense given what they're listing there.

Either way. So pumped for this game.

Buzzman · Sep 19, 2013

Remember when everyone was afraid that they were going to make it easier?

Forkball · Sep 19, 2013

I don't get how human/hollow form works in this game with humanity removed. It still sounds like you need to farm some item like humanity to go into human form.

Soriku · Sep 19, 2013

I am 100% OK with getting invaded as a Hollow.

The Agility stat sounds interesting. The White Phantom bit is good news, hate people who have a WP while I'm trying to do PvP :x Nearly impossible to win. This isn't too big of a deal in the Burg but in the Darkroot Garden a lot of people run around with WPs.

Renoir · Sep 19, 2013

Hollow invasion isn't going to make the game hard... It's just going to be annoying. Imagine I buy the game a week after launch, and every one is maxed out . now I get invaded, that's an auto butt hurt.

Vlade · Sep 19, 2013

I want this game so hard

Roubjon · Sep 19, 2013

I'm liking everyone of those bullet points. I always wished I got invaded more often, so this is awesome.

Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

Sklorenz said:
That's a good point, and it would make a lot of sense given what they're listing there.

Either way. So pumped for this game.

Maybe they'll factor in PvP performance instead of just soul level when deciding who you can invade, meaning a soul level 1 Darkwraith will start getting matched up against tougher and tougher opponents instead of just being able to invade everyone.

Player performance is also mentioned under the new white phantom limitations, so I figure they'd do something similar for PvP.

EatinOlives · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%.

Sweet! The -%50 HP penalty in Souls was cruel and awesome at the same time. I felt there was no real consequence to dying in Dark Souls as a result other than the lack of PvP/Co-op.

Orayn said:
White phantoms now have a limited duration, may have to leave sooner if they do too much work for the host player.

Somewhat cruel, but I can understand it. I coasted through Flamelurker in Demon's Souls because I summoned someone who was obviously an expert and we just destroyed him on my first try. I felt like I cheated myself out of a good fight. I wonder if they're forced to leave in the middle of a boss fight if they're just wrecking that boss.

Orayn said:
More visible blood stains and messages thanks to being server-based instead of P2P, messages no longer require an item to write.

YISSS. I love this, both parts. The first because you got fucked if your particular P2P region in Dark Souls was barren, so was the amount of blood stains/messages. Also, I always thought it was stupid to have to buy an item to write and rate messages. I don't think I ever understood the purpose behind that decision, since you can get it so early in the game but if you're not careful you can miss that entire portion of the online part of the game?

Orayn said:
3 item slots per hand, 10 consumable item slots. UI is much denser and more detailed, less scrolling necessary.

Another YISS. Hopefully the UI on the PC version is tweaked to be made even denser with smaller fonts. The enormous UI elements were especially terrible on the PC, and the UI in DSfix scaling is unfortunately too buggy for me to use.

Orayn said:
Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

Does that mean the death of the Resistance stat? Please kill the Resistance stat.

SeventhSon · Sep 19, 2013

Without humanity, how are bonfires kindled?

super-famicom · Sep 19, 2013

YES. JUST INJECT THIS GAME INTO MY VEINS. March cannot come soon enough.

Coiote · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Possible to be invaded while hollow.

Humanity scrapped, replaced with a single item like Stone of Ephemeral Eyes.

This is ludicrous. I love PVP, but they better offer an option to be left alone by the players without needing to go off line.

Orayn said:
Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

You'd better get ready to die.

I like this. Love playing nimble and agile characters. This will make them more viable.

dkoy · Sep 19, 2013

I reckon being invaded while hollow is awesome. They did try to balance it out with a defence covenant and humanity is goin to be replaced by something else, not necessarily an item. Whites getting a big nerf with time and kill limits is pretty cool, forcing players to learn than get carried and encourages more teamwork between players.

I reckon Blue will basically serve as the anti-red covenant. My theory is joining them gives you an invasion item for the guilty (or something along those lines) and a ring that gets you summoned to an invaded's world like the cat ring in DaS1.

We'll see how well their new system works

Time to get hyped.

fallagin · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Incoming crow buffet for everyone who predicted a casual game and the death of the series when the sequel was announced!

It's a pretty hefty, detailed article, so here's the rundown:

Possible to be invaded while hollow.

Humanity scrapped, replaced with a single item like Stone of Ephemeral Eyes.

Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%.

White phantoms now have a limited duration, may have to leave sooner if they do too much work for the host player.

More visible blood stains and messages thanks to being server-based instead of P2P, messages no longer require an item to write.

Way of Blue covenant summons a player phantom to help defend if you get invaded.

3 item slots per hand, 10 consumable item slots. UI is much denser and more detailed, less scrolling necessary.

Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

You'd better get ready to die.

And people thought they would sissify it

alr1ght · Sep 19, 2013

More visible blood stains and messages thanks to being server-based instead of P2P, messages no longer require an item to write.

Praise the lawd. Definitely made Dark Souls worse in some ways compared to Demon's.

Other stuff sounds rough.

Ken · Sep 19, 2013

hello

will there be souls exploit again so i can be level 1 pyromancer and kill everyone

thanks

Lucentto · Sep 19, 2013

Possible to be invaded while hollow.

The fuck? Awful, I always hated PVP in the Souls games. Whatever, I will just play offline if they are going to do that.

DeliciousDoc · Sep 19, 2013

As long as you can summon allies while undead I see no reason to be scared of being invaded. Invaders will get destroyed by 3v1s unless they are smart and wait for allies to expire.

Hope they make sure there aren't any exploiters though. I didn't have to deal with many low levels with late game spells or gear but that seems to be what happens in all their soul games eventually.

Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

Forkball said:
I don't get how human/hollow form works in this game with humanity removed. It still sounds like you need to farm some item like humanity to go into human form.

There's a new item, Human Effigy, whose only function is to restore you to human form, which in turn restores your max HP to normal. No word on how you acquire it.

SeventhSon said:
Without humanity, how are bonfires kindled?

Some new consumable/collectable item would be my guess. I think some of this is in response to humanity being difficult to grasp due to the different ways of gaining it and the sheer number of things it was used for.

Samyy · Sep 19, 2013

WOW SO THEY'RE GIMPING CO-OP PLAY?
The only reason I played through the first game, me and my buddy had a goddamn blast playing co-op. This is so fucking bullshit. Hype at an all time low.

Grief.exe · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Possible to be invaded while hollow.

You'd better get ready to die.

Sounds pretty awesome to me. I love games that increase the tension at all times.

Samyy said:
WOW SO THEY'RE GIMPING CO-OP PLAY?
The only reason I played through the first game, me and my buddy had a goddamn blast playing co-op. This is so fucking bullshit. Hype at an all time low.

You can just re-summon him, or use the huge white soap stone so he lasts longer.

Not a huge deal.

Mike M · Sep 19, 2013

I've no problem with Humanity's functions being split out into multiple consumables so long as there aren't a limited quantity in a play through like Stones of Ephemeral Eyes were.

dugdug · Sep 19, 2013

Samyy said:
WOW SO THEY'RE GIMPING CO-OP PLAY?
The only reason I played through the first game, me and my buddy had a goddamn blast playing co-op. This is so fucking bullshit. Hype at an all time low.

Didnt you have to mod it in order to play with a friend?

I mean, it sucks for people who liked that mod, but, co-op with your buddies has never been on From's agenda, since Demon's. I always kinda liked that it forced you to play with randoms.

Kouichi · Sep 19, 2013

Yes.

YESSS

I am both terrified and excited. Exactly how I should be feeling about a new Souls game.

Retro_ · Sep 19, 2013

I like these changes

The biggest design flaw of the first two games to me was that it was way more beneficial to be dead rather than in Human form.

I don't think they intended for it to be imbalanced to the point where people were suiciding to avoid that penalties of dying/being killed in Human form.

They got rid of World Tendency in Dark Souls, and now they're getting rid of dead mode immunity in DS2.

Superflat · Sep 19, 2013

HEHEHEHEH. Bring it on-- all invasions, all the time.

What I'm actually nervous/excited? about:

Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%.

Humanity scrapped, replaced with a single item like Stone of Ephemeral Eyes.

Makes it so that you can't make your safety net too cushy.

Zushin · Sep 19, 2013

Looking awesome. Very happy with the changes.

Lost Fragment · Sep 19, 2013

I can't imagine that they're going to force everyone into MP unless they're not connected to Xbox Live/whatever. I can see them wanting to get more people into MP, but maybe they're just doing something, like, instead of not being available for MP by default like in Dark Souls 1, they make it so you have to go out of your way to play 100% SP by joining a covenant or something.

Xer0 said:
Didnt you have to mod it in order to play with a friend?

I mean, it sucks for people who liked that mod, but, co-op with your buddies has never been on From's agenda, since Demon's. I always kinda liked that it forced you to play with randoms.

You don't have to mod, it just makes it easier.

Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

Xer0 said:
Didnt you have to mod it in order to play with a friend?

I mean, it sucks for people who liked that mod, but, co-op with your buddies has never been on From's agenda, since Demon's. I always kinda liked that it forced you to play with randoms.

Yeah, there was an interview with Miyazaki where he explained how the co-op in Demon's Souls was inspired by a time when he received help from a stranger while driving on icy roads during a snow storm. He wanted the game to capture the experience of a desperate situation forcing you to seek help from someone you didn't know and would probably never see again.

I can understand why some people might be bummed out, but you've got to respect their conviction.

Retro_ · Sep 19, 2013

Lost Fragment said:
You don't have to mod, it just makes it easier.

Anyway, I can't imagine that they're going to force everyone into MP unless they're not connected to Xbox Live/whatever. I can see them wanting to get more people into MP, but I'd be surprised if you can't go out of your way to just play 100% SP by joining a covenant or something.

You can play 100% single player by disconnecting from the internet like always.

but I mean you're missing a large aspect of the game's design that way I feel if you don't take part in that system

SargerusBR · Sep 19, 2013

Possible to be invaded while hollow.

I'm okay with this. If people want to play the game without getting invaded there is always offline mode.

Humanity scrapped, replaced with a single item like Stone of Ephemeral Eyes.

Hmm, i wonder what will be the drop rate of this item, getting 99 humanities was somewhat a easy thing in Dark Souls.

Repeated deaths while hollow decrease max HP up to 50%.

This will fix players being on Hollow form the entire game, something the devs didn't wanted for Dark Souls

White phantoms now have a limited duration, may have to leave sooner if they do too much work for the host player.

Good change, now some players will have to battle their way through the enemies without Phantoms doing all the work for them.

More visible blood stains and messages thanks to being server-based instead of P2P, messages no longer require an item to write.

Nicely done.

Way of Blue covenant summons a player phantom to help defend if you get invaded.

CASUL Covenant

jk

3 item slots per hand, 10 consumable item slots. UI is much denser and more detailed, less scrolling necessary.

I like it, makes inventory management much easier and adds more combat variety.

Agility stat that increases movement and dodge speed. Existing stats being retooled, such as Dexterity making bleeding/poison more effective.

Not sure about this one, will have to play the game before jumping to conclusions.

You'd better get ready to die.

Ahasverus · Sep 19, 2013

Sounds like make it harder for the sake of it. it really didin't need to be harder.
Easy mode please? kthxbye

PetriP-TNT · Sep 19, 2013

Sounds amazinggggvgghhhhhnngggghhhh

PeterVenkman · Sep 19, 2013

Orayn said:
Yeah, there was an interview with Miyazaki where he explained how the co-op in Demon's Souls was inspired by a time when he received help from a stranger while driving on icy roads during a snow storm. He wanted the game to capture the experience of a desperate situation forcing you to seek help from someone you didn't know and would probably never see again.

I can understand why some people might be bummed out, but you've got to respect their conviction.

Yeah I love their idea of multiplayer. I love co-op games something fierce but when i need to get my co-op on i certainly have never and will never look to the Souls' games. They're meant to isolate you and I've always liked that.

Deuterium · Sep 19, 2013

I am so down with this game! (meaning, in a good way).

I am half-way through my first play through of Dark Souls, and I can honestly say, with no hesitation...that it is one of my all-time favorite video games.

I absolutely love the difficulty level. It is such a friggin' breath of fresh air for the industry, which has progressively decreased the difficulty level of games over the past generation (and earlier).

I love how there is no "check point" / save system (bonfires don't really count). If you blow through a certain key item (e.g., black firebombs), or lose humanities, you can't just load up an earlier Save point. They simply don't exist...and I LOVE that.

The game doesn't hold your hand, and it takes no prisoners.

Bring on the difficulty and incredible challenge, I say. Bring it on!

AppleMIX · Sep 19, 2013

I'm fine with this.

Summons better work this time though.

Calibus · Sep 19, 2013

Ugh guess I'll be pulling the plug. The other changes I am fine with.

squidyj · Sep 19, 2013

Invaded while hollow..... So a grief factory then?

not sure I want the game anymore tbh, just because of that one 'feature'.

Orayn · Sep 19, 2013

AppleMIX said:
I'm fine with this.

Summons better work this time though.

Servers should guarantee that, though there are plenty of improvements they could have made while keeping it P2P if they really wanted. Dark Souls' system is an incredibly awkward, messy method of pooling data from different IP addresses that makes it incredibly prone to grabbing information from people who have stopped playing or left the area. This leads to a lack of messages and dud summoning signs.

TOAO_Cyrus · Sep 19, 2013

Soriku said:
I am 100% OK with getting invaded as a Hollow.

The Agility stat sounds interesting. The White Phantom bit is good news, hate people who have a WP while I'm trying to do PvP :x Nearly impossible to win. This isn't too big of a deal in the Burg but in the Darkroot Garden a lot of people run around with WPs.

That's because you can get invaded by up to three dark phantoms at once in the forest.

Antiwhippy · Sep 19, 2013

squidyj said:
Invaded while hollow..... So a grief factory then?

not sure I want the game anymore tbh, just because of that one 'feature'.

Play offline.

Also there's probably a thing that can stop invasions.

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