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DICE: PS4 & Mantle will drive Frostbite design and optimisation going forward

G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Update:

Transcript of repi's comments + the slide in question:

We do have to build and continue to maintain our OpenGL and DirectX rendering path but we really try to avoid limiting ourselves to what we can do in those APIs. So I think going forward, the main things to drive the design we have in Frostbite and the type of optimisations we will do, will be what we can do with Mantle, and also what we can do with PS4. PS4 also has its own graphics API that’s really quite programmable and really a lot of good control and performance from it, so we can share concepts, methods and various types of hardware level optimisations between those and see where we end up with that, which is quite exciting.
Click to expand...

NefUH1b.png


Original:

Just mentioned on stage as part of repi's APU13 presentation.

I didn't get the slide grab, but basically he said that PS4's library and Mantle are quite similar, and PS4 offers great performance, so they'll be driving forward Frostbite's design and optimisation based on these. He said that Mantle and PS4's library are a lot more similar than Mantle and DX11.

Strategic my partnership if old.

thumb900_phpxjjx8fp1010528.jpg
 
K

KKRT00

Member
He said that its CPU system look closer to PS4 than DX 11.

Which is understandable looking at the Mantle design

===========

Man said:
These IPs and studios:
thumb900_phpxjjx8fp1010528.jpg

Will shine extra, extra bright on one particular console platform.
Click to expand...

Eh no. This doesnt mean that.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
No ESRAM is why PC & PS4 development will be a better fit, due to similar architecture. ESRAM complicates things a bit on the Xbox.
I also eagerly await groundbreaking Mantle accelerated PopCap games LOL.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
my summary from other thread:

MANTLE:

- MULTI-VENDOR IT essentially means Nvidia is onboard
- OPEN Repi said he wants other developers to take part in developement
- All frostbite games will be Mantle enabled and in FUTURE BUILD FOR MANTLE MAINLY
- BIG CPU IMPROVEMENT "With mantle CPU won't be problem anymore"
- BIG MULTICORE/GPU IMPROVEMENT 8 GPUS in single PC, VR -1 GPU per eye, fixed a lot of problems with SLI/CF setups.
- ASYNCHRONOUS COMPUTE (like PS4)

and a lot more


oh and:

- STEAMOS + MANTLE = ROCKET PERFORMANCE
Click to expand...
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
diaspora said:
Xbone uses GCN, so it can take advantage of Frostbite's implementation of Mantle.
Click to expand...

It would require Microsoft to use Mantle at the driver level.

Anyway, the talk in general was interesting. Some of it was way too low level for the lay viewer, but other bits were quite illuminating. Some good insight into some of console-ish things that can be done, some talk too about compute scheduling and queue control and ideas for that for the future.
 
ragon

ragon

Member
My understanding This means DICE says even if PS4 Doesn't support Mantle like xbox one, it seems there is a way to handle it because they looks similar?
 
P

Perkel

Banned
x3sphere said:
In a perfect world, yes. There's no indication Nvidia will be on board.
Click to expand...

comeone. REPI said it is not GCN based. He explictly said on stage multivendor API and OPEN to dev community to work together improving it.

There is Intel there is Nvidia and there is one big nothing beside them
 
M

Metfanant

Member
ragon said:
My understanding This means DICE says even if PS4 Doesn't support Mantle like xbox one, it seems there is a way to handle it because they looks similar?
Click to expand...
The Xbone doesnt support Mantle..Mantle is a low level API similar to what has traditionally been offered on consoles "writing to the metal"
 
S

Skeff

Member
diaspora said:
Xbone uses GCN, so it can take advantage of Frostbite's implementation of Mantle.
Click to expand...

On a hardware level yes, on a software level no.

This is very bad news for anyone still hoping for console parity on Frostbite games.

EDIT: anyone have a link to a replay of this?
 
B

BBboy20

Member
That's pretty bad when one console can actually help with a game engine while the other apparently either can't or would suck at it.

Too bad I don't want to give EA any more money because Frostbite is really my favorite engine.
 
A

astraycat

Member
rudieboy77 said:
I read a snippet of an article on Reddit today that mentioned that Mantle could be used on Nvidia gpu's.
Click to expand...

NVIDIA could choose to support it but I doubt they will. Mantle is likely designed around the strengths of the GCN architecture, which differ from NVIDIA's strengths.

But that doesn't mean developers won't support it. At the Thief talk yesterday at APU13 the dev basically said it that it didn't matter if Mantle wasn't cross-platform; they will support it as a feature, and in that regard it makes a lot of sense. PC devs already go through all the trouble of getting things like Eyefinity to work, so why not Mantle (which will potentially have a much larger user base)?
 
B

BlackBuzzard

Banned
Skeff said:
On a hardware level yes, on a software level no.

This is very bad news for anyone still hoping for console parity on Frostbite games.

EDIT: anyone have a link to a replay of this?
Click to expand...

What does that mean? Will frostbite engine games look/perform better on PS4?
 
F

Flai

Member
Chobel said:
Unless Nvidia approve Mantle, that's not gonna happen.
Click to expand...

And unless AMD approves Nvidia, that's not gonna happen. Mantle isn't open-source or anything, and even if the AMD has said that they *could* allow Nvidia to use it, I somehow doubt that they will. And if they would, they definitely wouldn't allow Nvidia to integrate any Nvidia specific features/optimizations etc.
 
P

Perkel

Banned
iMpQPnd0sxZ8u.png
Click to expand...

CPU utilization with mantle compared to DX or GL api

Flai said:
And unless AMD approves Nvidia, that's not gonna happen. Mantle isn't open-source or anything, and even if the AMD has said that they *could* allow Nvidia to use it, I somehow doubt that they will. And if they would, they definitely wouldn't allow Nvidia to integrate any Nvidia specific features/optimizations etc.
Click to expand...


Looks like Mantle is not AMD work but strictly DICE and EA work. They probably asked AMD for help.

REPI said: Multivendor and open for other devs to take part in developement, he also confirmed it is not GCN exclusive and they plan to support non GCN hardware via build in extensions
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Its a great thing that he again confirmed mantle will be used on all Frostbite 3 games, and they will work hard to optimize Mantle to work great on low-power AMD APUs [PVZ Garden Warfare].
 
M

michaelius

Banned
artist said:
Somewhere Durante (along with all other Mantle detractors) is crying.
Click to expand...

Because AMD released some more pointless PR presentasions ?

The problem with AMD is that they talk much and have beatifull visions of future but when time to deliver comes we receive Bulldozers, turtle slow apus, jaguar cores which lose to atom or 290X space heaters and on software front they have such successes as their PhysX alernative with 0 titles support and TressFX with 1 game support.

Yeah it really is suprising some people are sceptical ;)
 
N

No Love

Banned
Perkel said:
my summary from other thread:

MANTLE:
Click to expand...

Awesome summary. I really dig your posts, if I could promote you from Junior to "Bad-ass Member of PC Tech GAF" I totally would. You have my endorsement, sir.

michaelius said:
Because AMD released some more pointless PR presentasions ?

The problem with AMD is that they talk much and have beatifull visions of future but when time to deliver comes we receive Bulldozers, turtle slow apus, jaguar cores which lose to atom or 290X space heaters and on software front they have such successes as their PhysX alernative with 0 titles support and TressFX with 1 game support.

Yeah it really is suprising some people are sceptical ;)
Click to expand...

Get off your soapbox, it's slippery with haterade. I guess AMD sucks massive ass and that's why they're powering PS4, XBone, and Wii U, right? That's why Sony/MS/Nintendo all gave a big collective "noooope" to Nvidia and jumped on board with AMD, right? Because AMD sucks ass and Sony/MS/Nintendo are a bunch of retards who love shitty technology, am I right?

I mean, it couldn't be that AMD's APU designs are the sort of computing hardware future we're headed for, right? Naw. AMD just sucks. You're right. LOL LEAF BLOWER SPACE HEATER 290X who carez if it faster than Titan, IT 2 LOUD AND 2 HOT!
 
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