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Massive FORZA blowout from OXM UK. Lots of details inside.

-Fantastic-looking car models - Each car use up to 15,000 polygons each
Over 200 cars from 60 different manufacturers (unconfirmed yet) - BMW, Chevrolet, Dodge, Honda, Mazda, Mercedes-benz, Nissan, Porsche and Ferrari

-Rip apart and rebuild cars however you desire - means swapping suspension systems, tyres, engine parts etc.

-Also able to install entirely new engines - size restraints are a factor but if its possible in the real world the option will be there to do it in the game

-Change visual appeal of your cars - body kits, bonnet scoops, spoilers etc.

-All changes will have an impact on the car handling.

-Aesthetic add-ons - colour scheme (that you can create yourself), stickers, decals ( that you can create yourself as well)

-Car trading online (through Xbox live0 is an aspect the team is thinking of adding

-Car damage affects car handling

-The only two officially confirmed tracks anr Nurburgring and Laguna Seca

-Innovative piece of technology called Drivatar AI. This alows you to teach your computer-controlled team mates to drive like you, for example, aggressively or defensively. This means that the opponent AI is also very human in performance

Points from interview with lead programmer Garrett Young and game designer Dan Greenawalt
"The GT series paved the way for us. Without the success Polyphony has had, we would not have had the oppurtunity yo create Forza. Although we are taking the racing sim genre in a bit of a different direction"

"We will be honoured by any comparisons gamers make between Forza and GT4"

"One of the most powerful tools in Forza is our custom paint and decal editor. Players can place manufacturer decals, text or vinyl shapes anywhere on the car - online, every car should look totally unique. On top of that, we've licensed real world tuner kits for real-world tuner cars"

"How can you make a simulator without damage? We approached the manufacturers early on in the product cycle with full mock-ups of our damage as well as design docs to make sure they understood how and why we were including damage"

On car selection - "We used the top 100 car lists from magazines such as EVO magazine and fan sites to come up with our top cars"

"With damage and customisable parts, our cars take several weeks to build. We've invested considerably in each car in the game. Based on out production plans and vehicle specs, shooting for 200+ cars made the most sense to us"

On Live features - "The ability to win money for single-player car upgrades and customisation while online. The ability to bring cars created and customised in single-player into the online space. The ability to trade theses cars and connect up with other enthusiasts in car clubs are all interesting innovations"

On the DRIVATAR AI - "There are a lot of ways to advance in Forza. The ability to train AI Drivatars and then compete with/against them is another great example of many things there are to do in the game. Not many game companies have over 50,000 passionate employees to draw inspiration from. Even fewer have research departments spread around the world including PhD AI developers incubating great ideas such as learning AI - Microsoft does. The technology behind learning AI in games was brought to us by our Microsoft research team in Cambridge. They are not game developers, but rather technology developers that have been working on the problem of learning AI systems for many years"

credit Mike69
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
-Also able to install entirely new engines - size restraints are a factor but if its possible in the real world the option will be there to do it in the game

:O
 
neptunes said:
200 cars hmmm....

so all those car manufacturers agreed to real-time car damage?


Thats what they said. Makes you wonder how the GT developers can use them as an excuse to not include it in their game.
 

Midas

Member
Well, didn't PD want each car to react differently? Like if you crashed your Skyline the damage would be like if you crashed your Skyline in reality? If they did that, well congrats. :)
 

neptunes

Member
Blazing Sword said:
Thats what they said. Makes you wonder how the GT developers can use them as an excuse to not include it in their game.

seeing as how Gran Turismo has a library of 500 cars I think there must be some set backs from implementing it into the game.

Kaz even stated that he would love for car-damage to be in GT and he wanted to implement it since 2 or 3(IIRC)
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Blazing Sword said:
Thats what they said. Makes you wonder how the GT developers can use them as an excuse to not include it in their game.

Kaz's last comments about this IIRC were that all it takes is for one to say no and they won't do it for any.
 

FightyF

Banned
GT4 may beat Forza in sales, but Forza may just beat GT 4 in Gameplay.

Well, if this is executed right, that is. If we are comparing feature lists...sure, I'd agree with you.

But there are some key things they can't mess up on. Firstly, I think the artists for this game aren't that great, and secondly, there seems to be an emphasis on making it look real good technically...to the point where it seems that they are willing to give up 60 fps...
 
DarienA said:
Kaz's last comments about this IIRC were that all it takes is for one to say no and they won't do it for any.


Porshe and Ferrari said no to Kaz to even INCLUDE their cars in GT. They said yes to MS AND allowed them to get banged up. Why can Forza get MORE car manufacturers in their stable than GT and allow damage? GT may have more cars, but they will have different models and years from the same manufacturers they had before. Manufacturers Forza has, PLUS some.

One said no to GT, but they all said Yes to Forza. Again I ask why? I just think they cannot do it on the PS2 the right way.. Simple as that.
 
Fight for Freeform said:
Well, if this is executed right, that is. If we are comparing feature lists...sure, I'd agree with you.

But there are some key things they can't mess up on. Firstly, I think the artists for this game aren't that great, and secondly, there seems to be an emphasis on making it look real good technically...to the point where it seems that they are willing to give up 60 fps...


I agree that they need some better lighting on the cars, but as for the 60 FPS, there have been too many conflicting reports on whether it is or not. I think 60 fps is almost assured, but I could be wrong. Personally I don't mind 30 fps. It works fine for PGR 2.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Blazing Sword said:
Porshe and Ferrari said no to Kaz to even INCLUDE their cars in GT. They said yes to MS AND allowed them to get banged up. Why can Forza get MORE car manufacturers in their stable than GT and allow damage? GT may have more cars, but they will have different models and years from the same manufacturers they had before. Manufacturers Forza has, PLUS some.

One said no to GT, but they all said Yes to Forza. Again I ask why? I just think they cannot do it on the PS2 the right way.. Simple as that.

I have no idea if there is a "real" reason besides the one that has been spoken however there is one thing I believe you've stated incorrectly. They may not have the same manufacturers on their lists, but GT has more manufacturers represented than Forza does.
 

IJoel

Member
Blazing Sword said:
I agree that they need some better lighting on the cars, but as for the 60 FPS, there have been too many conflicting reports on whether it is or not. I think 60 fps is almost assured, but I could be wrong. Personally I don't mind 30 fps. It works fine for PGR 2.

I agree with the lighting statement, but the latest IGN screens show a marked improvement in the palette/lighting of the game.

A few screens:

forza-motorsport-20040722083426376.jpg

forza-motorsport-20040722083336614.jpg

forza-motorsport-20040722083308600.jpg

forza-motorsport-20040722083315600.jpg

forza-motorsport-20040722083014534.jpg
 
I really want to check this game out. I've got 3 XBoxes so you know what I've got planned for launch day. ;)

It'll be interesting to see how this game holds up. It's got some stiff competion form the entrenched GT series, not to mention what PGR2 had done for online racing. But it looks like you'll be able to totally personalize this game to your liking. :)
 
DarienA said:
I have no idea if there is a "real" reason besides the one that has been spoken however there is one thing I believe you've stated incorrectly. They may not have the same manufacturers on their lists, but GT has more manufacturers represented than Forza does.


If thats true, how many more can their be for gods sakes. Really when you think about it, the logical reason is the PS2 just does'nt have the necessary specs to do everything that Polyphony could put into it. Adding damage modeling to 500+ cars and maintain good graphics, framerate, physics, AI, etc., would be tough even for XBOX.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Blazing Sword said:
If thats true, how many more can their be for gods sakes. Really when you think about it, the logical reason is the PS2 just does'nt have the necessary specs to do everything that Polyphony could put into it. Adding damage modeling to 500+ cars and maintain good graphics, framerate, physics, AI, etc., would be tough even for XBOX.

I'm not sure what you are asking... are you asking how many more manufacturers could their be? The current GT list includes major and tweak manufacturers:

Acura
Alfa Romeo
Alpine
Amuse
Autobacs
Aston Martin
Audi
Autobianchi
BMW
Cadillac
Chevrolet
Chrysler
Citroen
Daihatsu
Dodge
Dome
Fiat
Ford
Ginetta
Honda
Hyundai
Isuzu
Jaguar
Lancia
Lotus
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz
Mines
Mini
Mitsubishi
Nismo
Nissan
Opel
Pagani
Panoz
Pescarolo
Pugeot
Plymouth
Pontiac
Renault
RUF
Saleen
Shelby
Spoon
Subaru
Suzuki
Toyota
TVR
Volkswagen

The Forza is list is nowhere near that. But Forza looks to have it's own appeal. It seems to be a mix of GT internal tuning and the import racing game outside tuning(body panels, etc..) I like that.
 

Lukas

Banned
they confirmed this game will infact run at 60 fps and sense of speed is one of the top things on their list
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
DarienA said:
I'm not sure what you are asking... are you asking how many more manufacturers could their be? The current GT list includes major and tweak manufacturers:

I count 49 there, I'm not sure how 49 is more than 60 but sure, whatever floats your boat
o_O
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
DopeyFish said:
I count 49 there, I'm not sure how 49 is more than 60 but sure, whatever floats your boat
o_O

Over 200 cars from 60 different manufacturers (unconfirmed yet)

The GT list is confirmed... when you can show me a confirmed list for Forza(and as far as I know MS has barely started to release manufacturers info for Forza) then we'll know if the # is truly 60...and if it is... good for them.

EDIT: I keep hearing that even the published manufacturers list for GT4 is incomplete... *doh* somebody beat me to it.
 

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
DarienA said:
The GT list is confirmed... when you can show me a confirmed list for Forza(and as far as I know MS has barely started to release manufacturers info for Forza) then we'll know if the # is truly 60...and if it is... good for them.

EDIT: I keep hearing that even the published manufacturers list for GT4 is incomplete... *doh* somebody beat me to it.

the 60 manufacturers # is what Microsoft is sticking by and haven't changed that number since announcing the game. The 200 cars number has changed. it used to be below 100 cars, then a little over a hundred, then 150 now 200. Hmmm
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
DopeyFish said:
the 60 manufacturers # is what Microsoft is sticking by and haven't changed that number since announcing the game. The 200 cars number has changed. it used to be below 100 cars, then a little over a hundred, then 150 now 200. Hmmm

Good for them... someone else in this thread is claiming the GT # is now sitting at 80. So I guess until either game gets a bit closer to release we really won't have an idea what the final numbers are.
 

mashoutposse

Ante Up
Blazing Sword said:
Porshe and Ferrari said no to Kaz to even INCLUDE their cars in GT. They said yes to MS AND allowed them to get banged up. Why can Forza get MORE car manufacturers in their stable than GT and allow damage? GT may have more cars, but they will have different models and years from the same manufacturers they had before. Manufacturers Forza has, PLUS some.

One said no to GT, but they all said Yes to Forza. Again I ask why? I just think they cannot do it on the PS2 the right way.. Simple as that.

Yes, the PS2 just doesn't have enough power to properly render Ferraris and Porsches.

The more likely reason is that, because GT is widely regarded as a highly realistic driving simulation, car manufacturers that assess enormous premiums for their vehicles like Ferrari and Lambo would rather not put their vehicles in a position to be directly compared to the other, more pedestrian cars that populate the game.

The same game that made WRXs, Evolutions, and Skylines mainstream and popular can also have an opposite, negative effect on certain six-figure dream cars.
 

Killbin

Banned
Blazing Sword said:
GT4 may beat Forza in sales, but Forza may just beat GT 4 in Gameplay.
Oh yeah, sure! And you played both of them, right? Just wait until they get released and don't post such worthless coments.
 

mr2mike

Banned
forza-motorsport-20040722083014534.jpg

All is not lost! this gives me hope that the AW11 will be in!!!

"I don't mind 30 fps. It works fine for PGR 2."

No it didn't
 
mashoutposse said:
Yes, the PS2 just doesn't have enough power to properly render Ferraris and Porsches.

The more likely reason is that, because GT is widely regarded as a highly realistic driving simulation, car manufacturers that assess enormous premiums for their vehicles like Ferrari and Lambo would rather not put their vehicles in a position to be directly compared to the other, more pedestrian cars that populate the game.

The same game that made WRXs, Evolutions, and Skylines mainstream and popular can also have an opposite, negative effect on certain six-figure dream cars.


The problem isn't whether PS2 can render Porshces and Ferraris, but having damage modeling on 500+cars, plus everything else going on in the game. Try re-reading my post.

As for GT being a realistic simulation the reason car manufacturers won't allow damage is hot air. FORZA is attempting to out sim GT in every aspect possible, just read up on it and you'll understand. But car manufacturers allow damage in it. Like I previously stated before. Why Forza and not GT? The only logical conclusion is PS2 limitations.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
The only logical conclusion is PS2 limitations.
If no other racing game on the PS2, or LAST GENERATION consoles for that matter, featured any form of damage modeling then you might be on the verge of something there. But, in the light of the evidence stacked against your logical conclusion...

I mean, have you ever even seen this thing called PS2? :p

Question: is Forza damage modeling accurate to the car it's being modeled on, or is it a generic damage model that's basically the same for all cars and doesn't accurately reflect how one car would be damaged differently from another?
 

mashoutposse

Ante Up
Blazing Sword said:
The problem isn't whether PS2 can render Porshces and Ferraris, but having damage modeling on 500+cars, plus everything else going on in the game. Try re-reading my post.

As for GT being a realistic simulation the reason car manufacturers won't allow damage is hot air. FORZA is attempting to out sim GT in every aspect possible, just read up on it and you'll understand. But car manufacturers allow damage in it. Like I previously stated before. Why Forza and not GT? The only logical conclusion is PS2 limitations.

The reality is that GT is regarded as realistic and it carries a great deal of influence. Forza is an unknown quantity; it isn't known for much of anything. If I'm a Ferrari exec and I'm about to decide on licensing out my company's name, I'd take that into account. While they can afford to take MS' money and run, they have to tread much more carefully with a game that has as wide an appeal as GT. There is much more to lose than to gain for the top supercar companies.

Same thing can be applied to the damage debate.
 
kaching said:
If no other racing game on the PS2, or LAST GENERATION consoles for that matter, featured any form of damage modeling then you might be on the verge of something there. But, in the light of the evidence stacked against your logical conclusion...

I mean, have you ever even seen this thing called PS2? :p

Question: is Forza damage modeling accurate to the car it's being modeled on, or is it a generic damage model that's basically the same for all cars and doesn't accurately reflect how one car would be damaged differently from another?


Just like I recommended to another poster, I URGE you to really read up on FORZA and just how detailed and accurate they are making this game. Even things like the temperature of engine components will affect your cars performance if they get too hot.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
I'm going to buy both and hopefully enjoy both offline/on so no need for me to feel all defensive about my fave....that said, I totally don't believe the "car companies" won't allow crash physics/rendering argument about GT. I think it just opens up a whole 'nother can of worms in programming and frankly their just not willing to do it right now. Especially on the PS2.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Blazing Sword said:
Just like I recommended to another poster, I URGE you to really read up on FORZA and just how detailed and accurate they are making this game. Even things like the temperature of engine components will affect your cars performance if they get too hot.
Can't you just answer the question, since it's germane to a thread of conversation YOU started in this topic? The question is simple - is the damage model accurate in a GENERAL physical sense (i.e. paint scrapes and metal dents) or is it accurate to what would specifically happen to each make of car (all 200 of them), within the confines of what this game engine is capable of on Xbox hardware?

A volvo hitting a wall at 80 mph will damage very differently than a ferrari. Is that what Forza will be offering?

From what I understand the reason why damage modeling doesn't appear in GT is because certain car manufacturers won't let them show how their makes of car damage accurately.
 
kaching said:
Can't you just answer the question, since it's germane to a thread of conversation YOU started in this topic? The question is simple - is the damage model accurate in a GENERAL physical sense (i.e. paint scrapes and metal dents) or is it accurate to what would specifically happen to each make of car (all 200 of them), within the confines of what this game engine is capable of on Xbox hardware?

A volvo hitting a wall at 80 mph will damage very differently than a ferrari. Is that what Forza will be offering?

From what I understand the reason why damage modeling doesn't appear in GT is because certain car manufacturers won't let them show how their makes of car damage accurately.


From everything I read, I believe each car will damage according to how its built.
 
Error Macro said:
Man, those goggles must be as black as PSX discs.

Dorky nitpicking here...but psx discs weren't black. They were actually a purpleish blue. The decal on the other side prevented light form coming through, which made them look black. Hold the disc up to the light and look at the inside, it's very much not black. Most people that hadn't figured this out think i'm crazy when i tell them, but its true, it's true!!!
 

Redbeard

Banned
kaching said:
Can't you just answer the question, since it's germane to a thread of conversation YOU started in this topic? The question is simple - is the damage model accurate in a GENERAL physical sense (i.e. paint scrapes and metal dents) or is it accurate to what would specifically happen to each make of car (all 200 of them), within the confines of what this game engine is capable of on Xbox hardware?

As if anyone would be able to tell, or even give a shit...

"OMG, the fender shouldn't be denting like that on this model car! This totally ruins it, I'd rather not have damage at all."
 
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