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Motorola's 68000 CPU was probably way ahead of its time

BAW

Banned
I think it was, taking into account the systems it powered:

Genesis
Amiga 500
X68000
Neogeo
Arcade systems such as Capcom's CPS1 & CPS2, Sega's System 16

How could developers push better and better 2D graphics from a chip with laughable processing power until recently? It's mind-boggling. Wikipedia says the chip was developed in 1979.
 

phanboy4

Member
Yeah same arch/chip family, different versions. Kinda like how the GameCube MIPS is basically the same arch as what the WiiU uses, but obviously one is more powerful than the other.

The fact that they could keep iterating on it and get that kind of performance out of it does indicate it was a good design though, for sure.
 

Jonnax

Member
This is from the reference manual so you can see there's quite a few variations of the chip. Somewhat similar to how there are different x86, ARM, etc processors but possibly with less differences. The console manufacturers will have had their own customizations as well.

9qLYEZ7.png
 
I think it was, taking into account the systems it powered:

Genesis
Amiga 500
X68000
Neogeo
Arcade systems such as Capcom's CPS1 & CPS2, Sega's System 16

How could developers push better and better 2D graphics from a chip with laughable processing power until recently? It's mind-boggling. Wikipedia says the chip was developed in 1979.

Don't forget the Atari Jaguar!!
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I think it was, taking into account the systems it powered:

Genesis
Amiga 500
X68000
Neogeo
Arcade systems such as Capcom's CPS1 & CPS2, Sega's System 16

How could developers push better and better 2D graphics from a chip with laughable processing power until recently? It's mind-boggling. Wikipedia says the chip was developed in 1979.

The 68K was a great processor, very easy and efficient to code for but all the systems you mention were chock-full of custom processors.

The Amiga especially was built around its custom chipset, and things like the copper and hardware scrolling were what separated it from th Atari ST which had a faster clocked 68K but struggled to even scroll a fullsize screen smoothly.
 
The modern equivalent is ARM... ARM comes in a million flavors/designs/customized packages, is cheap to mass produce, and easy to program for.
 

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
I did Assembler programming on this chip - I still have the reference book. It was definitely ahead of its time.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
I did Assembler programming on this chip - I still have the reference book. It was definitely ahead of its time.

Yeah it was ahead of its time, 16 bit processor but able to operate with 32 bit values. Great instruction set, was very easy to code for in assembler and you could produce really clean code the more you thought about it.

Combined with say the custom chipset of the Amiga and it was trick central. The Amiga Demo Scene was a great example of this, really pushed boundaries.
 

injurai

Banned
This is from the reference manual so you can see there's quite a few variations of the chip. Somewhat similar to how there are different x86, ARM, etc processors but possibly with less differences. The console manufacturers will have had their own customizations as well.

9qLYEZ7.png

yeah, it's just yet another distinct architecture that too received many iterations.

I can't say if it was better or worse than what was out there, but it seemed to serve a meaningful purpose just how ARM does now.
 

DrPreston

Member
This is rather silly logic. Those consoles all ran on CPU's with the same architecture but they were not the same CPU's. The NES and Atari also shared similar CPU's, just like my desktop at home shares a CPU similar to the 80806 that shipped in the original IBM PC.
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
I did 680X0 programming on Amiga after getting frustrated with the speed of pascal for drawing 3d vectors. It was a really clean chip to program compared to the god awful 8086 at the time.

It taught me to optimise and think more logically. There were always many ways to optimise an algorithm and increase speed significantly. How things have changed where nowadays you just chuck a faster CPU at slow code.

Actually Pascal was a useful way to design your code and then covert line by line to 680x0 before optimising even further.

People use to think l was a right geek in the day.
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
This is rather silly logic. Those consoles all ran on CPU's with the same architecture but they were not the same CPU's. The NES and Atari also shared similar CPU's, just like my desktop at home shares a CPU similar to the 80806 that shipped in the original IBM PC.

No, they used the same CPU's basically they were just supported by different custom chipsets.

The Sharp X68000 had obscene playfield hardware, the Amiga had the copper which could dynamically change the display as it was drawn etc.

The 68K was VERY fast and cheap for its time, being able to move 32 bit data around while only being a 16 bit processor. Much better instruction set allowing you to write cleaner and faster code. It's why it ended up in so many things which at the time which were seen as cutting edge.

The CPU of course doesn't tell the whole story, but it was part of what allowed the jump over what else was around. The Amiga wiped the floor with the PC's of the day for example.
 
I think it was, taking into account the systems it powered:

Genesis
Amiga 500
X68000
Neogeo
Arcade systems such as Capcom's CPS1 & CPS2, Sega's System 16

How could developers push better and better 2D graphics from a chip with laughable processing power until recently? It's mind-boggling. Wikipedia says the chip was developed in 1979.

Most arcade systems had a boatload of custom chips supporting the CPU and doing all of the rendering / heavy lifting. Sprite scaling on Sega's OutRun era games being a prime example.
 

CO_Andy

Member
Why did the SNES used an 8-bit processor instead of this?

Surely it would have been cheap to manufacture by the last decade of the century.
 

notBald

Member
I did Assembler programming on this chip - I still have the reference book. It was definitely ahead of its time.

There were some comparable chips in its era, like the NS32016, but it was ahead of the competing Intel 8086 easily.

It wasn't until the 386, 7 years later, that Intel got a comparable instruction set, however Motorola's was even then much nice to work with.

Unfortunately the lovely instructions set turned out to be an anchor. x86 is butt ugly but by a stroke of luck all instructions were of the "Read-Modify-Write" type, allowing Intel to implement a CPU with a RISC like core. I.e. Intel's complex instructions could be split up into simpler instruction that only did one thing, so instead of one instruction doing "Read, Modify and Write", you got three separate instructions doing only one thing and one thing well.

Motorola couldn't do this for the 68k. To remain competitive Motorola opted to go for a new architecture (PowerPC). As a last hurrah Motorola reworked the 68K into the ColdFire CPU. The ColdFire could be clocked much higher, but at the cost of software compatibility. Atari and Amiga couldn't use the Coldfire and died off, while Apple went with PPC for their macs.

Why did the SNES used an 8-bit processor instead of this?

Surely it would have been cheap to manufacture by the last decade of the century.

Two reasons. It's easier to port code from the NES to the SNES CPU, as they are much more similar, and they saved a few cents by having a simpler main board. A 8-bit bus requires less traces and pins, which is ultimately cheaper.
 

2+2=5

The Amiga Brotherhood
I bet that most of the youngsters here have never heard of he Amiga(or of the 68k cpu) :(
 

Fularu

Banned
Why did the SNES used an 8-bit processor instead of this?

Surely it would have been cheap to manufacture by the last decade of the century.

It was supposed to be backward compatible with the Famicom. While the idea was scrapped, the processor remained (it's the same one in both, the 6508 I believe, going off memory)
 

Crisium

Member
It is impressive to see the same CPU used across generations. Even my Saturn has one as a sound processor.

Amazing that a 1979 CPU powers the 1985 Sega System 16 (slower than Genesis) all the way to the beastly 1990 Neo Geo and 1993 CPS2.
 
Even my Saturn has one as a sound processor.

.

Yeah it did.. The 68000 was also used as a sound controller for both the Model 1 and Model 2 arcade boards.



The modern equivalent is ARM... ARM comes in a million flavors/designs/customized packages, is cheap to mass produce, and easy to program for.

I would say that the Zilog Z80 would've been like the ARM of the past. The Z80 was used in just about every 8bit home computer back in the day, and and just about every 8bit arcade machine used a z80 as well. The Sega Master System, Game Gear, Neo-Geo Pocket all used Z80 variants. The Game Boy used some kind of hybrid Z80 as well. The Genesis had a z80 in it, and it was used in a lot of Sega's scaling arcade hardware as sound controllers.
 

charsace

Member
Intel got lucky when they got the IBM contract. Matter of fact IBM would be huge if they kept on making their own shit.
 
Indeed.

The Amiga shall never be forgotten though, only Amiga made it possible as they used to say :)

I was an ST guy myself. Another 68k based computer. Ran faster than the Amiga CPU but no custom chips. Used to blow my mind what ST demo coders could do with an 8 MHz chip.
 

Chozolore

Member
This is from the reference manual so you can see there's quite a few variations of the chip. Somewhat similar to how there are different x86, ARM, etc processors but possibly with less differences. The console manufacturers will have had their own customizations as well.

9qLYEZ7.png


I had a 68060 upgrade for my amiga, frontier and grand prix were a joy to play after that.
 
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