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iBuyPower: Those who make higher-priced Steam Machines "just don't get it"

A

alexandros

Banned
Slashgear got the chance to talk to an iBuyPower exec at CES. iBuyPower are one of Valve's 13 initial Steam Machine partners. They say that they could launch the Steam Machine as soon as February, but Valve will not be ready.

As Lee suggests, "you won't be able to sell a Steam Machine without the controller." This means that "when SteamOS is ready and when the Steam Controller is ready," Lee continued, "we'll be ready." "It depends on Valve," said Lee, "We could ship this next month." He refers to the first Steam Machine to be presented by iBuyPower, the color-changing box you see above.

Lee also estimated that they're currently looking at a "February timeframe" ideally, suggesting that they could potentially* see release "before Chinese New Year." Chinese New Year occurs in 2014 on the 31st of January.

*NOTE: This release date refers to the best-case scenario, if everything suddenly fell in place like magic. It's far more likely that the full Steam Machine hardware push will begin in the second half of the year.
Click to expand...

More interestingly, they say that other companies that decided to come up with expensive Steam Machines don't understand the point of Steam Machines.

We shall see - we also had an extended talk with Lee on the strategy they've used to initiate this first Steam Machine release, suggesting that some of the higher-priced solution manufacturer's "just don't get it." It all comes down to a price point that fits in with the (extremely successful) consoles being released by Microsoft and Sony right now.
Click to expand...

I can't say I agree 100%, more expensive Steam Machines may find their niche, but it is true that a lot of the initial manufactures really phoned it in.

Link: http://www.slashgear.com/steam-machine-oems-ready-when-you-are-valve-13313010/
 
U

udivision

Member
I guess it depends on whether they're trying to profit off of the hardware. I don't think Sony or Microsoft have to do that, but the makers of steam machines aren't making money off the software.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
I quite honestly just do not understand who the Steam machines are supposed to be for. It's like they are built for a small niche market that doesn't really exist.
 
G

Griss

Member
It's hard to know who exactly would want a Steam Machine, but if anyone would it would be on the cheaper end, as a small, aesthetic box to sit under/next to your TV.

If you're going to drop more than a grand, why wouldn't you build one yourself? Cheaper, tons of options, Windows and that 90% of games that you won't miss out on...

Only the very rich would consider a Steam Machine at the higher prices, imo.
 
G

Glorified G

Member
iBuypower's machine doesn't even meet the recommended requirements for CoD Ghosts. A cross gen game that came two months ago. They don't get it either
 
P

pixlexic

Banned
It depends.. If publishers start treating steam is like a new console and create ports for it of new games then a high priced steam machine makes sense. But if they don't then yeah they basically selling a high end non windows PC.
 
S

ShinobiFist

Banned
Very true to an extent. Some folks(Like myself)don't want to build a PC anymore and want power. I bought an X51 a couple of years ago because I wanted something powerful, but small. And for the price and size there is nothing out there like the X51. The days of big rigs are done for me, thanks to NYC. And plus, I don't have to deal with different manufactures in case something goes wrong. Is all about ease of use for me.
 
D

Dolor

Member
ShinobiFist said:
Very true to an extent. Some folks(Like myself)don't want to build a PC anymore and want power. I bought an X51 a couple of years ago because I wanted something powerful, but small. And for the price and size there is nothing out there like the X51. The days of big rigs are done for me, thanks to NYC. And plus, I don't have to deal with different manufactures in case something goes wrong. Is all about ease of use for me.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, according to Neogaf posters on SteamOS threads, you don't exist.

I am sorry to be the one who has to break this news to you.
 
G

Geedorah

Member
StaticJam said:
He has a point. People aren't gonna spend $1000+ on something that doesn't even have Windows on it.[/QUOTECan you install Windows in these machines?
Click to expand...

But Windows on a TV with a controller? No thanks. I can drag my full sized PC over into the living room if I want that experience. In my opinion a Steam Machine should focus on the streaming aspects, even if Valve said that isn't the direction they want to go in.

Glorified G said:
iBuypower's machine doesn't even meet the recommended requirements for CoD Ghosts. A cross gen game that came two months ago. They don't get it either
Click to expand...

Easy solution - Streaming content on the same network. Your $400-$500 Steam Machine could work just fine over several generations with hardware upgrades to the main "host" PC.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
I think there's a niche for it, kind of like the Star Citizen crowd. Especially for Oculus Rift

But I do agree that the main point of the Steam Machine is to be an affordable HTPC
 
T

TheChewyWaffles

Member
zma1013 said:
I quite honestly just do not understand who the Steam machines are supposed to be for. It's like they are built for a small niche market that doesn't really exist.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%. Anyone who wants to game on a PC can do so already without the aid of a Steam OS or Steam controller. They don't even need to custom build a rig to get performance that far exceeds consoles.

Pain said:
iBuyPower is the one who doesn't get it. Steam Machines wont' be competing directly with Xbox One and PS4, they'll be competing with each other. The type of people who might be interested in a Steam Machine will most likely want a powerful machine. Why would they buy a weak Steam Machine when they can buy a PS4?

I fully expect this Steam Machine experiment to be a failure. I don't think there's a market for it.
Click to expand...

I was going to disagree with you, but then I read your closing statement. Anyone who is enthusiast enough to want a Steam machine will likely know how (directly or through a friend) to build a decent rig that's just as or more capable than a Steam Machine but for less money.
 
P

Prophet Steve

Member
shagg_187 said:
Then people should treat them less as a Steam-Only Machine and more as a Gaming PC for those short on cash and have rather buy a plug-and-play machine than building it themselves.
Click to expand...

There are plenty of gaming PCs, which makes me think this is a bit weird. Unless SteamOS and the Steam controller are the selling point.

Or a different look.
 
D

Dolor

Member
ashecitism said:
It's not like their model is that hot either. Really, the sweet spot for these machines could be around $800.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. Why battle it out with MS and Sony in the bargain basement?

I can pay more for my console than I do for a tablet.
 
P

Pain

Banned
iBuyPower is the one who doesn't get it. Steam Machines wont' be competing directly with Xbox One and PS4, they'll be competing with each other. The type of people who might be interested in a Steam Machine will most likely want a powerful machine. Why would they buy a weak Steam Machine when they can buy a PS4?

I fully expect this Steam Machine experiment to be a failure. I don't think there's a market for it.
 
D

Dolor

Member
Pain said:
Why would they buy a weak Steam Machine when they can buy a PS4?
Click to expand...

I have 500 Steam games, likely more than 100 of them work with Linux with more coming out all the time. Some are crap, but a lot are great.

Why would I buy a PS4 and have to start a whole new library when I can buy whatever kind of Steam machine I want and play with my existing library and friends etc?
 
G

GameAddict411

Member
well, you don't say.

lt+quot+You+Don+t+Say+quot+_67ec8059f5fea765515fd65a553b9cf0.jpg
 
W

wildfire

Banned
I get the idea of having Steam machines ready before the New Years but having them out the same month doesn't seem like it will have results. Do the Chinese do most of their shopping on the week of New Years instead of buying stuff in advance?
 
E

elostyle

Never forget! I'm Dumb!
balohna said:
Anyone that does anything productive on their PC?
Click to expand...
What about those of us who's weapon of choice for anything productive is a MBP running OSX that we already have? Looking at mysel personally, I want an open box to put under my TV that plays steam games. $1000 price tag an windows is the last thing I'd want on it.

I think the market exist.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
This is the Steam Machine that had an Athlon X4, 4GB RAM and an R7 250 (1GB) isn't it?

Lulz, good luck running anything of note on that. :p
 
V

Vooduu

Member
zma1013 said:
I quite honestly just do not understand who the Steam machines are supposed to be for. It's like they are built for a small niche market that doesn't really exist.
Click to expand...

Same here. Looks like they think a small number of PC gamers will buy one for the living room and then a wild fire will start.
 
J

jim2point0

Banned
zma1013 said:
I quite honestly just do not understand who the Steam machines are supposed to be for. It's like they are built for a small niche market that doesn't really exist.
Click to expand...

I haven't really understood the point of Steam OS \ Steam machines since their announcement... but I think it's for console gamers who don't like the idea of playing games at a desk, but still want in on PC exclusives. I'm really not sure though.

There are so many hurdles. First and foremost is getting a large library of games ported over to Linux. Do developers really want to do that? It's hard enough to get some devs to port to PC as it is....
 
McHuj

McHuj

Member
After CES, Steam Machines to me just come across as nothing more than a small form factor PC. I wish the things were a min, mid, high spec requirement that manufacturers had to conform to. Otherwise, it doesn't help the consumers nor does it help developers.
 
C

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Because the manufactures have to make money on the hardware, they always have to make a profit off of it. Which defeats the purposes because any ole' computer can be a Steam Machine. If Valve really cares, which I don't think they do as a whole, they would cut manufacturers a percentage of all the games sold through Steam, on the Steam Machines. Then we would have some real competition, maybe even machines sold at a loss !!

EDIT : And also set specifications. The whole point I was excited about Steam Machines for was that developers would theoretically have 3-5 configurations they could optimize and guarantee they would work on.
 
D

Dolor

Member
coolasj19 said:
Because the manufactures have to make money on the hardware, they always have to make a profit off of it. Which defeats the purposes because any ole' computer can be a Steam Machine. If Valve really cares, which I don't think they do as a whole, they would cut manufacturers a percentage of all the games sold through Steam, on the Steam Machines. Then we would have some real competition, maybe even machines sold at a loss !!
Click to expand...

Or, they could encourage lower software sale prices thereby improving the value proposition of PCs/SteamMachines over consoles... oh wait....
 
C

char0n

Member
I like the idea of steam machines, but I still don't understand them. Surely anyone willing to shell out >$1200 is an enthusiast who would be willing to put together their own build that would be more powerful for less money I'd think. Anyone who doesn't want to spend enough for the graphical fidelity and also doesn't want to get their hands dirty building a PC but does want the comfy-couch gaming experience... well that's the console market.

Maybe it's because I've had my gaming PC hooked up to my Surround sound/TV via HDMI into my receiver for 4 some years now, or the fact that it's been at least that long since HDMI out was standard in all dedicated video cards anyway, but I don't see where these fit in aside from basically being Alienware SteamOS + couch edition. But those do sell decently enough so maybe that does answer my question.

On another note it might have changed but I really wouldn't trust iBuyPower anyway for a build. My old roommate got them for providing a lot of gaming power for cheap (a tower and 2 laptops), but each one had some critical component failure in less than 2 years and I think the tower came only half hooked up internally.
 
C

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Dolor said:
Or, they could encourage lower software sale prices thereby improving the value proposition of PCs/SteamMachines over consoles... oh wait....
Click to expand...
Expand on your point please. I don't know what you're trying to say right now.
 
S

SkeptiMism

Member
I thought it was simply about offering options. That's kinda the point.

There are still tons of people who don't build their own PCs for whatever reason.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
IchigoSharingan said:
i think he's saying there is already a good selling point to steam machines: lower cost of games
Click to expand...

And coolasj19's point was about incentives for the h/w manufacturers, which Dolors rebuttal fails to address in any way. :p
 
N

Newboi

Member
I still think Valve should have waited until they secured more entertainment options, like Netflix or Amazon Prime, before they went public with the Steam Machine concepts.

I believe marketing Steam Machines as competitors to Apple TVs, or Xbox One, as an all-in-one set-top box that can be your TV Guide, stream media, and access all of your Steam library via Streaming, or natively, would be a much more enticing offer.

It would be the HTPC that's consumer friendly, while still being open and moddable for those who like to tinker.

Valve could have then created a Tier System (e.g. Casual, Performance, and Enthusiast) for OEMs and retail that would allow customers to easily decide what machine they would like to buy based on price and native game performance.

Either way, so far, I think Alienware actually has the best concept on pushing a Steam Machine that would at least be marketable in retail. They also have the production power of Dell behind them that would allow them to mass produce and lower costs, allowing for higher quality and performing components. I know that none of the named Steam Machine builders are concerned with retail at this point, but I think the average consumers will need to be able to walk into a best buy and be shown the Steam Machine live in order to understand the value proposition.
 
N

Noble Neckbeard

Banned
Quite simply, if the Steam machines:

- Aren't as powerful as current generation consoles
- Aren't priced competitively in the living room space
- Aren't super duper user friendly

Then no one is going to buy them. Especially that last one. Anyone who is interested in a Steam box either already has a PC, or doesn't want to deal with one. This box is going to be in direct competition with consoles. There's just no two ways about it. Sadly, it seems like the box is shaping up more like a PC than a console.
 
D

Dolor

Member
coolasj19 said:
Expand on your point please. I don't know what you're trying to say right now.
Click to expand...

See below.

IchigoSharingan said:
i think he's saying there is already a good selling point to steam machines: lower cost of games
Click to expand...

Yes this.

Osiris said:
And coolasj19's point was about incentives for the h/w manufacturers, which Dolors rebuttal fails to address in any way. :p
Click to expand...

How does it not? Any rational actor trying to make a decision about which platform to buy games from will choose based on the hardware and software prices. There's a reason I have 500 games on Steam and maybe 4 on PS3 despite having a PS3 for longer, and that's because Steam sales turns the value proposition of consoles on its head.

Hardware doesn't need to be as cheap for PCs when there is so much competition for software sales.
 
P

PBY

Banned
I'd buy a steam machine at sub-200 bux.

I already have a ps4 for the graphical showcases, just kinda want a decent box for indie stuff and media functionality.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Dolor said:
See below.



Yes this.



How does it not? Any rational actor trying to make a decision about which platform to buy games from will choose based on the hardware and software prices. There's a reason I have 500 games on Steam and maybe 4 on PS3 despite having a PS3 for longer, and that's because Steam sales turns the value proposition of consoles on its head.

Hardware doesn't need to be as cheap for PCs when there is so much competition for software sales.
Click to expand...

Hardware manufacturers expect volume sales, if there's no volume, there will be no product, "Promises of a glorious future" won't mean anything, sales and margin will.

And judging by most of the reaction I've seen here and elsewhere to the Steam Machine reveals, volume and sales just won't be there.

Steam OS may have a future, there's no hurry or timescale that matters.
Steam Machines will be dead in the water, the corpses floating alongside the remains of MSX's, Easy PC's and 3DO's
 
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