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Monorojo · Mar 4, 2006

Sources are from this very board

JPN #'s http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=64940&page=1
US Numbers - Countless of NPD topics + LanceSterns TEVS_Documentation

First lets take a look at USA.

Code:

---             JAPAN             USA               US+JPN
DS TOTAL	3,824,649	4,605,617	8,430,266
PSP TOTAL	3,563,838	7,483,465	11,047,303

Code:

US DS TOP 10	
Spider Man 2 (Activision)	341,671
Asphalt Urban GT (Ubisoft)	231,070
Madden NFL 2005 (EA)	194,927
Urbz Sims in the City (EA)	194,361
Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow (Konami)	164,440
Sonic Rush (Sega)	155,994
Zoo Tycoon (THQ)	148,302
Star Wars Revenge of the Sith (LucasArts)	147,573
The Sims 2 (EA)	123,046
Yugioh Nightmare Troubadour (Konami)	111,319

US PSP TOP 10	
Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories (TakeTwo)	818,239
Madden NFL 2006 (EA)	523,818
Need for Speed Underground Rivals (EA)	420,590
Star Wars Battlefront II (LucasArts)	354,966
Midnight Club 3 D.U.B. Edition (TakeTwo)	320,126
Need for Speed Most Wanted (EA)	320,066
Tony Hawks Underground 2 Remix (Activision)	280,316
Ridge Racers PSP (Namco)	258,984
Metal Gear Acid (Konami)	252,763
Lumines (Ubisoft)	232,890

US [BOTH] Top 25
PSP	Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories (TakeTwo)	818,239
PSP	Madden NFL 2006 (EA)	523,818
PSP	Need for Speed Underground Rivals (EA)	420,590
PSP	Star Wars Battlefront II (LucasArts)	354,966
DS	Spider Man 2 (Activision)	341,671
PSP	Midnight Club 3 D.U.B. Edition (TakeTwo)	320,126
PSP	Need for Speed Most Wanted (EA)	320,066
PSP	Tony Hawks Underground 2 Remix (Activision)	280,316
PSP	Ridge Racers PSP (Namco)	258,984
PSP	Metal Gear Acid (Konami)	252,763
PSP	Lumines (Ubisoft)	232,890
DS	Asphalt Urban GT (Ubisoft)	231,070
PSP	Burnout Legends (EA)	196,105
PSP	Madden NFL 2005 (EA)	194,927
PSP	Coded Arms (Konami)	194,499
DS	Urbz Sims in the City (EA)	194,361
PSP	NBA Live 06 (EA)	191,244
PSP	NFL Street 2: Unleashed (EA)	176,025
PSP	MVP Baseball (EA)	168,528
DS	Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow (Konami)	164,440
PSP	Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2005 (EA)	164,162
PSP	Spider Man 2 (Activision)	161,011
PSP	Sonic Rush (Sega)	155,994
PSP  Namco Battle Museum (Namco)	150,717
DS	Zoo Tycoon (THQ)	148,302

Code:

DS - 71 titles - 4,605,617 (Avg:64,867)

EA	1,118,829
Activision	641,935
UbiSoft	611,423
Konami	348,711
THQ	302,386
Sega	301,273
Nacmo	270,027
Vivendi Uni	215,686
Lucasarts	147,573
Atari	141,368
BuenaVista	102,544
Majesco	74,534
Atlus	71,191
Capcom	61,575
Ignition Ent.	59,622
Hudson	53,316
Crave Ent.	34,820
DSI	25,959
Activ. Value	22,845

Code:

PSP - 51 titles - 7,483,465 (Avg:146,734)

EA	2,951,642
TakeTwo	1,138,365
Activision	750,042
Konami	651,941
Namco	529,520
LucasArts	354,966
UbiSoft	321,067
Koei	158,217
Capcom	124,262
THQ	108,294
Ignition Ent.	100,192
Sega	71,065
Midway	63,503
Majesco	53,393
Bandai	47,820
Tecmo	33,633
Eidos	25,543

Below you can see how publishers that released games on both are doing, numbers in paranthesis are the number of titles released.

Code:

	Company DS	PSP
Activision	641,935 (5)	750,042 (6)
Capcom	61,575 (2)	124,262 (2)
EA	1,118,829 (11)	2,951,642 (17)
Konami	348,711 (5)	651,941 (5)
Lucasarts	147,573 (1)	354,966 (1)
Majesco	74,534 (4)	53,393 (1)
Nacmo	270,027 (7)	529,520 (4)
Sega	301, 273 (4)	71,065 (2)
THQ	302,386 (4)	108,294 (1)
UbiSoft	611,423 (8)	321,067 (2)

DS Thrid Party sales make up just around 44% of total software sales on DS in America (That means Nintendo themselves make up around 56%)...for PSP 3rd party sales make up just under 70% of the tally.

No as we look in Japan, we consider just how amazingly DS is performing there (atleast Nintendo) and that total software sold is a completely landslide for Nintendo (18~ mil vs 5~ mil) while its reletively even in US (10.4~ mil [DS] vs 10.8~ [PSP] mil.

3rd party sales however are no where near as lopsided.

Code:

JPN DS TOP 10	
Tamagotchi Connection : Corner Shop (Bandai)	987,225
Slime MoriMori: Dragon Quest 2 (Square Enix)	251,087
Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2 (Bandai)	246,000
Naruto 3 (Tomy)	216,322
Mushi King DS (Sega)	148,000
Naruto RPG 2 (Tomy)	126,687
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Capcom)	107,743
Harvest Moon DS(Marvellous)	106,671
Feel The Magic XX/XY (Sega)	100,263
Pac Pix (Namco)	98,650

	
JPN PSP TOP 10	
Monster Hunter Portable (Capcom)	495,003
Ridge Racers PSP (Namco)	307,739
Dynasty Warriors (Koei)	286,287
Brain Training Portable (Sega)	249,866
Tales of Eternia (Namco)	229,175
Winning Eleven 9 (Konami)	226,269
Metal Gear Acid (Konami)	116,702
Kotoba no Puzzle (Namco)	110,316
Mahjong Club (Konami)	106,888
Legend of Heroes (Bandai)	100,989

	JPN [both] Top 25	
DS	Tamagotchi Connection : Corner Shop (Bandai)	987,225
PSP	Monster Hunter Portable (Capcom)	495,003
PSP	Ridge Racers PSP (Namco)	307,739
PSP	Dynasty Warriors (Koei)	286,287
DS	Slime MoriMori: Dragon Quest 2 (Square Enix)	251,087
PSP	Brain Training Portable (Sega)	249,866
DS	Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2 (Bandai)	246,000
PSP	Tales of Eternia (Namco)	229,175
PSP	Winning Eleven 9 (Konami)	226,269
DS	Naruto 3 (Tomy)	216,322
DS	Mushi King DS (Sega)	148,000
DS	Naruto RPG 2 (Tomy)	126,687
PSP	Metal Gear Acid (Konami)	116,702
PSP	Kotoba no Puzzle (Namco)	110,316
DS	Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Capcom)	107,743
PSP	Mahjong Club (Konami)	106,888
DS	Harvest Moon DS(Marvellous)	106,671
PSP	Legend of Heroes (Bandai)	100,989
DS	Feel The Magic XX/XY (Sega)	100,263
DS	Pac Pix (Namco)	98,650
DS	Yu-Gi-Oh!: Nightmare Troubadour (Konami)	98,475
DS	Mega Man Battle Network 5: Double Team (Capcom)	94,043
DS	Power Pro Kun Pocket 8 (Konami) 	91,724
PSP	Samurai Warriors: State of War (Koei)	91,257
DS	Power Pocket Koushien (Konami) 	85,600

Code:

DS - 53 titles - 3,824,649 (Avg:72,163)

Bandai	1,415,419
Sega	422,471
Konami	394,604
Tomy	356,060
Square Enix	335,196
Capcom	234,447
Marvelous	182,033
Namco	176,758
Spike	83,783
Success	45,412
Taito	38,882
EA	36,066
Koei	34,545
Sammy	18,305
Hudson	11,859
Genki	10,254
Aruze	9,613
Tecmo	7,304
TDK	6,128
Atlus	5,510

Code:

PSP- 64 titles - 3,563,838 (Avg:55,684)

Namco	838,563
Capcom	594,293
Konami	541,596
Koei	430,815
Sega	334,768
Bandai	319,020
From	120,707
Banpresto	73,882
EA	61,019
Sammy	43,000
Hudson	36,424
Marvelous	32,262
Genki	29,922
Atlus	20,166
Idea Factory	19,448
Aqua Plus	17,708
Dorart	17,257
Ongakukan	12,861
Taito	11,943
CyberFront	8,184

Code:

Company	DS	PSP
Atlus	5,510 (1)	20,166 (1)
Bandai	1,415,419 (6)	319,020 (9)
Capcom	234,447 (4)	594,293 (7)
EA	36,066 (3)	61,019 (3)
Genki	10,254 (1)	29,922 (1)
Hudson	11,859 (1)	36,424 (1)
Koei	34,545 (1)	430,815 (8)
Konami	394,604 (8)	541,596 (7)
Marvelous	182,033 (3)	32,262 (4)
Namco	176,758 (4)	838,563 (7)
Sammy	18,305 (1)	43,000 (1)
Sega	422,471 (6)	334,768 (4)
Taito	38,882 (3)	11,943 (1)

Now here you can see the Top 20 games US+JPN (numbers combined where applicable) on both handhelds.

Code:

DS	Tamagotchi Connection : Corner Shop (Bandai)	987,225
PSP	Grand Theft Auto Liberty City Stories (TakeTwo)	818,239
PSP	Ridge Racers PSP (Namco)	566,723
PSP	Madden NFL 2006 (EA)	523,818
PSP	Need for Speed Underground Rivals (EA)	446,279
PSP	Dynasty Warriors	428,809
PSP	Metal Gear Acid (Konami)	369,465
PSP	Star Wars Battlefront II (LucasArts)	354,966
PSP	Need for Speed Most Wanted (EA)	339,639
PSP	Midnight Club 3 D.U.B. Edition (TakeTwo)	320,126
DS	Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2 (Bandai)	308,166
PSP	Tony Hawks Underground 2 Remix (Activision)	280,316
PSP	Lumines (Ubisoft)	270,161
DS	Slime MoriMori: Dragon Quest 2 (Square Enix)	251,087
PSP	Brain Training Portable (Sega)	249,866
DS	Asphalt Urban GT (Ubisoft)	231,070
PSP	Tales of Eternia (Namco)	229,175
PSP	Winning Eleven 9 (Konami)	226,269
DS	Urbs : Sims in the City (EA)	219,046
PSP	Coded Arms (Konami)	217,919
DS	Naruto 3 (Tomy)	216,322

And Finally, we see the Companies #'s US+JPN combined (where applicable) that released games on both PSP and DS so far.

Code:

Company DS	PSP
Activision	641,935 (5)	750,042 (6)
Atlus	76,701 (3)	20,166 (1)
Bandai	1,415,419 (6)	366,840 (10)
Capcom	296,022 (6)	718,555 (9)
EA	1,154,895 (14)	3,012,661 (20)
Genki	10,254 (1)	29,922 (1)
Hudson	65,175 (2)	36,424 (1)
Koei	34,545 (1)	589,032 (10)
Konami	743,315 (13)	1,193,537 (12)
Lucasarts	147,573 (1)	354,966 (1)
Majesco	74,534 (4)	53,393 (1)
Marvelous	182,033 (3)	32,262 (4)
Namco	446,785 (11)	1,368,083(11)
Sammy	18,305 (1)	43,000 (1)
Sega	723,744 (10)	405,833 (6)
Taito	38,882 (3)	11,943 (1)
Tecmo	7,304 (1)	33,633 (1)
THQ	302,386 (4)	108,294 (1)
UbiSoft	611,423 (8)	321,067 (2)

I have fancy little pie charts with this, but they didnt show up to well on the board.

You have to applaud companies like EA, Konami, Namco, Sega and a few others who found a suitable fanbase on both handhelds. But its clear which system the sales favor most of the time, and overall.

Sony has done brilliantly in their first attempt at a handheld (not counting pocketstation), and just with the case of PS1 and PS2, third parties are their strongest asset.

AniHawk · Mar 4, 2006

so what are you trying to say

jj984jj · Mar 4, 2006

Oh, a mono sales thread, I see it being 5 pages already.

Unless people ignore it because it's mono. :lol

AniHawk · Mar 4, 2006

this is a sales thread of ioi proportions

jett · Mar 4, 2006

Worthless thread of the night.

Archie · Mar 4, 2006

ok thats great you can stop ridin spinnas now

Great Rumbler · Mar 4, 2006

Almost half of the PSP's third party lead in the US was due to EA games. :/

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

You guys need to shut up...

Anyway actually this is quite informative. Thank you. The DS is massive in Japan, but that doesn't automatically translate to huge 3rd party support and sales.

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

Hold the phone....psp r THA winnar ??

or not....poor Monorojo. all that effort...wasted! :lol

Chris Michael · Mar 4, 2006

That's the one thing I'm worried about in terms of DS sales.... 3rd party sales. DS can sell all the units in the world but if the 3rd party games dont sell then it means nothing. I just hope it doesn't end up like the N64/GC now that there's a portable with decent 3rd party sales (PSP).

capslock · Mar 4, 2006

The only way to get higher third party sales on Nintendo platforms is for Nintedo to take a step back and make fewer games, and since Nintendo will never do that I think that might be one factor in the marketshare the Revolution eventually ends up getting.

zabuni · Mar 4, 2006

Same as it ever was. Third parties don't get much traction on the GBA. It's this case on many Nintendo systems, but especially on the portables. Mainly because up until now, portables were teh kiddy, aimed at casuals and a younger demographic.

One could partly counter some of these statistics though, by saying that the profit margins on DS games would probably be better, as they would be much cheaper to develop. You can get away with a simple(graphically) game on the DS, but given greater expectations, along with SCEA's anti 2d tendancies, people have to go whole hog and create 3d engines, textures, and the rest.

It is an interesting choice. Do you go for lower sale rate on the massive user base of the DS, or do you byte the bullet, 3d engine and all, and create a game for the the smaller, but higher percentage PSP?

Beowvlf · Mar 4, 2006

If you really want to make this list comprehensive, seperate sales for Eastern and Western publishers.

I'm not getting the hate either, this is worthwhile info that isn't made up/guesstimated for once.

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

zabuni said:
One could partly counter some of these statistics though, by saying that the profit margins on DS games would probably be better, as they would be much cheaper to develop. You can get away with a simple(graphically) game on the DS, but given greater expectations, along with SCEA's anti 2d tendancies, people have to go whole hog and create 3d engines, textures, and the rest.

That's a generalization though. If you're using a game that utilizes the same engine and similar models and textures as a previous game, the cost has pretty much gone from somewhat prohibitive to very comfortable. The 3D engines, textures, and 'the rest' aren't just created especially for the PSP except for certain aspects in certain games like Exit and Coded Arms, which had no previous games they could draw models and textures from, but there were so many engines and creation tools ported to the PSP, that I heavily doubt more than a handfull of games have an original engine. A modified engine, most probably, but not original.

Monorojo · Mar 4, 2006

Well for kicks i did look at how Western Games (Japanese) did in the US.

TOP 10
PSP Namco Ridge Racers PSP * 258,984
PSP Konami Metal Gear Acid 252,763
PSP Konami Coded Arms 194,499
DS Konami Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow 164,440
DS Sega Sonic Rush 155,994
PSP Namco Namco Battle Museum 150,717
PSP Koei Dynasty Warriors 142,522
DS Konami Yugioh Nightmare Troubadour 111,319
PSP Capcom DarkStalkers Chronicles 104,898
DS Nacmo Ridge Racers 103,540

TOTAL
PSP -18 titles - 1,616,458
DS - 20 titles - 1,130,978

Avg PSP JPN Title - 89,903
Avg DS JPN title - 56,548

AniHawk · Mar 4, 2006

These threads are fun. They remind me of GameFAQs.

wait a minute

Y2Kev · Mar 4, 2006

The Abominable Snowman said:
That's a generalization though. If you're using a game that utilizes the same engine and similar models and textures as a previous game, the cost has pretty much gone from somewhat prohibitive to very comfortable. The 3D engines, textures, and 'the rest' aren't just created especially for the PSP except for certain aspects in certain games like Exit and Coded Arms, which had no previous games they could draw models and textures from, but there were so many engines and creation tools ported to the PSP, that I heavily doubt more than a handfull of games have an original engine. A modified engine, most probably, but not original.

GTA, but that game has sold more than well enough globally to vindicate that decision.

Archie · Mar 4, 2006

AniHawk said:
These threads are fun. They remind me of GameFAQs.

wait a minute

i'm waiting

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

Y2Kevbug11 said:
GTA, but that game has sold more than well enough globally to vindicate that decision.

Not that I don't doubt you but did R* ever say if it had recycled assets or not?

I'm not a GTA fan so I don't know

Y2Kev · Mar 4, 2006

The Abominable Snowman said:
Not that I don't doubt you but did R* ever say if it had recycled assets or not?

I'm not a GTA fan so I don't know

Oh, I meant engine. The engine is built from scratch I think.

AniHawk · Mar 4, 2006

Archie said:
i'm waiting

Mono comes from GameFAQs, as do I and several other posters here. These threads usually start off with a look at actual facts by someone who is genuinely on one side of the fence. Then people from both sides come in and argue the authenticity of it all and why it does or doesn't matter, all while maintaining that they aren't biased either way. It might be an entertaining read until you realize that so many people are really taking it all very seriously.

Or maybe that makes it even more entertaining.

JJConrad · Mar 4, 2006

What's the point of comparing 3rd party sales? It doesn't mean anything and completely selective. You might as well compare non-EA sales, or make non-Namco/Bandia charts. Nobody cares but fanboys.

Archie · Mar 4, 2006

AniHawk said:
Mono comes from GameFAQs, as do I and several other posters here. These threads usually start off with a look at actual facts by someone who is genuinely on one side of the fence. Then people from both sides come in and argue the authenticity of it all and why it does or doesn't matter, all while maintaining that they aren't biased either way. It might be an entertaining read until you realize that so many people are really taking it all very seriously.

Or maybe that makes it even more entertaining.

That's the same thing as GAF :|

Mrbob · Mar 4, 2006

JJConrad said:
What's the point of comparing 3rd party sales? It doesn't mean anything and completely selective. You might as well compare non-EA sales, or make non-Namco/Bandia charts. Nobody cares but fanboys.

Or executives who need to green light projects.

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

JJConrad said:
What's the point of comparing 3rd party sales? It doesn't mean anything and completely selective. You might as well compare non-EA sales, or make non-Namco/Bandia charts. Nobody cares but fanboys.

And gamers who like third-party titles...

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

Er..... I think all this "proves" is that since the machines launched, devs have published big franchises and certain hits or ports on PSP and either released crap or less established games on DS .

Keep in mind games like Phoenix Wright may have lower expectations than other Capcom games. But on its own it can be considered a success.

Doesn't mean much else. The big hitters may or may not arrive on DS eventually, Wining Eleven for example. Not like the difference between numbers is so huge that devs will be put off making DS games. They may try not to release crap like Ridge Racer DS again though!

JJConrad · Mar 4, 2006

Mrbob said:
Or executives who need to green light projects.

Why make the distinction between 1st and 3rd party sales? Do you think Sega cares if EA does better on the PSP? If they're not competing with Nintendo on the DS, then they're still competing with EA and TakeTwo on the PSP.

Beowvlf · Mar 4, 2006

JJConrad said:
Why make the distinction between 1st and 3rd party sales? Do you think Sega cares if EA does better on the PSP? If they're not competing with Nintendo on the DS, then they're still competing with EA and TakeTwo on the PSP.

The difference is, if you take away Tamagotchi (which seems to be a wierd exception), Nintendo accounts for almost 80% of SW sales on the DS. So basically a TP is competing not only against other TP's, but is doing so only for, on average, a ~20% share on the platform.

This is versus the same scenerio on the PSP, where again the TP's compete against each other, but for a ~70% share on the platform instead.

All this info is very rough though, and this thread shouldn't be misunderstood as stating something even close to concrete, but rather just giving a general idea. Once you examine various genres/targeted demographics, the complexity grows exponentially.

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

Heian-kyo said:
The difference is, if you take away Tamagotchi (which seems to be a wierd exception), Nintendo accounts for almost 80% of SW sales on the DS. So basically a TP is competing not only against other TP's, but is doing so only for, on average, a ~20% share on the platform.

This is versus the same scenerio on the PSP, where again the TP's compete against each other, but for a ~70% share on the platform instead.

All this info is very rough though, and this thread shouldn't be misunderstood as stating something even close to concrete, but rather just giving a general idea. Once you examine various genres/targeted demographics, the complexity grows exponentially.

Mo offence but thats silly. Each game is taken on a game by game basis. If its promoted well, or appeals to people it will sell well.

Splitting up a achines userbase into 1st party or whatever is just silly. Its like saying however much percentage of PSP market belongs to EA and everyone else is competing for the leftovers.

Wrong. Every game is released with a terget sales, and the game either makes that target or it doent. Simple as that!

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

I think it moreso speaks of the userbase. The DS userbase seems to be heavily focused on the type of games Nintendo makes. If more 3rd parties makes Nintendo-esque games, with the classic Nintendo-esque presentation (as Tamagotchi and some others had done), we might see a reversal of sorts in third party sales. However, this will result in more Tamagotchis and Neopets and Chef games and whatnot.

The thing I find interesting is that a lot of the 'Xbox generation' type games are being targeted for the PSP. Splinter Cell, Monster Hunter, Burnout, Tekken and the like are given PSP iterations. If those types of games do better, then third parties will be less hesitant to ship those types of games to the PSP fanbase.

If that increases the chances of a portable Soul Calibur, then I'm all for it.

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

The Abominable Snowman said:
I think it moreso speaks of the userbase. The DS userbase seems to be heavily focused on the type of games Nintendo makes. If more 3rd parties makes Nintendo-esque games, with the classic Nintendo-esque presentation (as Tamagotchi and some others had done), we might see a reversal of sorts in third party sales. However, this will result in more Tamagotchis and Neopets and Chef games and whatnot.

The thing I find interesting is that a lot of the 'Xbox generation' type games are being targeted for the PSP. Splinter Cell, Monster Hunter, Burnout, Tekken and the like are given PSP iterations. If those types of games do better, then third parties will be less hesitant to ship those types of games to the PSP fanbase.

If that increases the chances of a portable Soul Calibur, then I'm all for it.

OR it suggests games like Spiderman, Ridge Racer and Splinter Cell DS are complete TRASH!!

Just so happens a lot of 3rd party games on DS have been utter crap or non-big hitting games. So far.

Error · Mar 4, 2006

Mono meet LTTP

LTTP meet Mono

you are both worthless.

HomerSimpson-Man · Mar 4, 2006

Uh, better than I thought it was doing. EA dominates so easily again.

Beowvlf · Mar 4, 2006

kaizoku said:
Mo offence but thats silly. Each game is taken on a game by game basis. If its promoted well, or appeals to people it will sell well.

Splitting up a achines userbase into 1st party or whatever is just silly. Its like saying however much percentage of PSP market belongs to EA and everyone else is competing for the leftovers.

Wrong. Every game is released with a terget sales, and the game either makes that target or it doent. Simple as that!

I totally agree with you, trends can be broken and there is no set breakdown of sales on any system. I didn't mean to imply as such.

The problem is that publishers have to go by trends, as it's one of the best indicators of how their game will sell. Alot of people who buy Nintendo handhelds don't even touch games not published by Nintendo. And now with the DS, alot of people aren't even buying the traditional type games. The DS has really struck well with girls (Nintendogs and AC) and adults (Brain Training). All those titles are Nintendo published. That just skews the scale even more.

Can others make those types of games? Of course. And some have. But most haven't, nor do they seem to be, for reasons I'm not quite sure of. I think Namco is the only TP that has really tried to emulate Nintendo's success in those areas.

A Link to the Past · Mar 4, 2006

Error2k4 said:
Mono meet LTTP

LTTP meet Mono

you are both worthless.

You make my heart ache.

Regardless, the difference is that my topic was stating simple fact that if you can get the myth out of the way, you realize that my topic IS true, at least to an extent. DS third games lack advertisement often, or do not have adequate shipment. I have never claimed that Nintendo is not responsible at all, just that they are weighed down with more reponsibility than they should have. They are not responsible for selling third party games, third parties are. If a gamer can't find a game, they can't buy a game.

Grimmy · Mar 4, 2006

I don't understand all the bashing on Mono's analysis either. I think it's quite interesting, as it does give you an idea that PSP 3rd party sales aren't lagging behind the DS despite the enormous discrepancies in sales ratio. Of course, it's not exactly all good news for PSP 3rd party devs, as theoretically sales should be higher on the PSP to offset the higher cost that goes into making PSP games. Still, it means that in the future developers will still continue supprting both platforms, and I think this is the real good news.

The Abominable Snowman · Mar 4, 2006

kaizoku said:
OR it suggests games like Spiderman, Ridge Racer and Splinter Cell DS are complete TRASH!!

Just so happens a lot of 3rd party games on DS have been utter crap or non-big hitting games. So far.

What about Tony Hawk DS? It was given TV air time and recieved pretty good ratings.

How did it sell?

Error · Mar 4, 2006

A Link to the Past said:
You make my heart ache.

It was not my intention

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

Heian-kyo said:
I totally agree with you, trends can be broken and there is no set breakdown of sales on any system. I didn't mean to imply as such.

The problem is that publishers have to go by trends, as it's one of the best indicators of how their game will sell. Alot of people who buy Nintendo handhelds don't even touch games not published by Nintendo. And now with the DS, alot of people aren't even buying the traditional type games. The DS has really struck well with girls (Nintendogs and AC) and adults (Brain Training). All those titles are Nintendo published. That just skews the scale even more.

Can others make those types of games? Of course. And some have. But most haven't, nor do they seem to be, for reasons I'm not quite sure of. I think Namco is the only TP that has really tried to emulate Nintendo's success in those areas.

You know I think its just that a lot of devs don't know how to make good handheld games. What you see on PSP is a bunch of PS2 type games. They're comfortable with that as they're console developers.

But GBA-style games? Forgetabout it!

The focus of this evidence should be the developers, not the consumers. Look at Mushiking, sold very well, not a DS game but its a good example of making a game for a portable.

Will be interesting to see how Square Enix does.

All we learn from this is crap on DS doesn't sell very well. Crap on PSP sells better - cos they don't have much in terms of good games

Just kidding.

Shaheed79 · Mar 4, 2006

I think that's pretty concrete right there 3rd parties should all drop the DS before it's too late!

AniHawk · Mar 4, 2006

kaizoku said:
You know I think its just that a lot of devs don't know how to make good handheld games. What you see on PSP is a bunch of PS2 type games. They're comfortable with that as they're console developers.

But GBA-style games? Forgetabout it!

The focus of this evidence should be the developers, not the consumers. Look at Mushiking, sold very well, not a DS game but its a good example of making a game for a portable.

Will be interesting to see how Square Enix does.

All we learn from this is crap on DS doesn't sell very well. Crap on PSP sells better - cos they don't have much in terms of good games Just kidding.

no you're not, and you know it.

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

AniHawk said:
no you're not, and you know it.

:lol Dont try to get me in trouble now. I really like the PSP. just don't agree with the thread theory.

Gattsu25 · Mar 4, 2006

kaizoku said:
Splitting up a achines userbase into 1st party or whatever is just silly. Its like saying however much percentage of PSP market belongs to EA and everyone else is competing for the leftovers.

Not really. For a gamer, it makes no difference whatsoever...but for armchair analysts and people in the industry, it makes a difference, but likely not as much as numbers such as install bases and whatsofuss

AdmiralViscen · Mar 4, 2006

Sega and Konami don't give a shit whether they lose a sale to EA/Take Two or Nintendo. I'd have to agree that most third party efforts on DS are fairly shitty (explaining lower sales), but Nintendo really should do something about this. Help with advertising or something. Seeing Tony Hawk and Viewtiful Joe bomb should have been a wakeup call.

A Link to the Past · Mar 4, 2006

AdmiralViscen said:
Sega and Konami don't give a shit whether they lose a sale to EA/Take Two or Nintendo. I'd have to agree that most third party efforts on DS are fairly shitty (explaining lower sales), but Nintendo really should do something about this. Help with advertising or something. Seeing Tony Hawk and Viewtiful Joe bomb should have been a wakeup call.

I agree. It's odd that Nintendo advertised Sk8land on GBA, but not SK8land on DS.

jj984jj · Mar 4, 2006

AdmiralViscen said:
Sega and Konami don't give a shit whether they lose a sale to EA/Take Two or Nintendo. I'd have to agree that most third party efforts on DS are fairly shitty (explaining lower sales), but Nintendo really should do something about this. Help with advertising or something. Seeing Tony Hawk and Viewtiful Joe bomb should have been a wakeup call.

I think it's just that you never know what titles will sell on a handheld. I mean even a fair share of the better PSP games have sold horribly. 3rd party sales on handhelds are really for the most part unpredictable.

kaizoku · Mar 4, 2006

A Link to the Past said:
I agree. It's odd that Nintendo advertised Sk8land on GBA, but not SK8land on DS.

Probably they were busy with Mario Kart and NWFC at the time.

Yoboman · Mar 4, 2006

Lumines (Ubisoft) 270,161

O RLY?

Gahiggidy · Mar 4, 2006

This thread reeks of desperation.

WindyMan · Mar 4, 2006

Comparing third party sales on the DS and PSP is misleading in a way. If a PSP game costs a publisher three or four times as much money to develop than it does to develop a DS game, the pub will see a return on investment with fewer quantity of DS sales. That's all that matters to a publisher, the bottom line.

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is Burnout Legends. I'm fairly certain that it cost a lot more money to develop the PSP version than the DS version, and even with the inflated price of the PSP game (which is still worth it, I think), EA would make more money off the Nintendo version with fewer sales than the PSP version.

Considering how much "quality time" went into the development of Burnout Legends DS, I would gather EA broke even on the game after selling 5,000 copies, probably less.

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US+Japan PSP/DS 3rd party sales comparision.

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