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Kickstarter updates terms: 'The creator must complete the project'
- Thread starter Shard
- Start date
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Finish your damn games.
IsntChrisL
Member
DICE should adopt this policy.
The truth hurts! lol
YianGaruga
Banned
As far as I can tell, that's really nothing new, all that KS states here is
Which doesn't really say that there will be direct consequences, just that they may be sued. And that was the case previously as well, as that isn't Kickstarter's call. I doubt KS will or can do anything in situations when a project fails to deliver.
Which doesn't really say that there will be direct consequences, just that they may be sued. And that was the case previously as well, as that isn't Kickstarter's call. I doubt KS will or can do anything in situations when a project fails to deliver.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Does that mean every previous project that failed to be completed can now be sued?
For the record, it shouldn't get to that in the first place. Start budgeting your projects better! Know how much will it cost exactly and how much is required. Put the kickstarter money in a separate account and don't pay yourself with it until the project is done and all funds were rightfully used.
Don't take out money to buy that dream car of yours or pay your school bill just cause your project got an additional $10,000.
For the record, it shouldn't get to that in the first place. Start budgeting your projects better! Know how much will it cost exactly and how much is required. Put the kickstarter money in a separate account and don't pay yourself with it until the project is done and all funds were rightfully used.
Don't take out money to buy that dream car of yours or pay your school bill just cause your project got an additional $10,000.
thewhitehawk
Member
While there have been some abandoned Kickstarter projects that left a lot of users negatively impacted I can't help but feel that this clause might push users to demand unreasonable things from developers. On the other hand, it might also help prevent some abuse.
Time will tell whether this shift things in a positive direction or not.
Time will tell whether this shift things in a positive direction or not.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
This is good progress for kickstarter. Hopefully it helps alleviate some concerns for backers, and also pushes devs to only commit to realistic goals, and properly advertise their game's features.
CecilRousso
Member
Good luck with enforcing that. I can see why they would add that, to please those shouting for it. But the reality is that projects will keep failing, and when that happens, in most cases the money will have been spent already.
But if people want to start lawsuits when they loose $30, by all means, try it.
It is of course good that they're pushing more for the creators to explain the use of the money. But it really doesn't change anything.
But if people want to start lawsuits when they loose $30, by all means, try it.
It is of course good that they're pushing more for the creators to explain the use of the money. But it really doesn't change anything.
autoduelist
Member
Doesn't really change anything. If a dev team runs out of funds, they can't pay back anyone anyway. And who exactly is going to sue? You can't force water out of a rock, and so you'd just be forcing devs to release broken unfinished messes to avoid a lawsuit.
Bethesda and Bungie too.
YianGaruga
Banned
Yep, this is just KS covering their asses. This may lead to better communication or people thinking twice before starting a campaign, but if a project is out of money, there's not a lot you can do. The updated terms of use are more of a notice to potential project creators, not some hard rule that will be enforced.
UltraGunner
Banned
Tim Schafer's sweating as we speak
spindoctor
Member
Kickstarter can't enforce this new rule so it's pretty meaningless. And what are jilted backers going to do about it? Spend time and money on suing a creator who is probably already bankrupt?
Of coure you can, you just need to post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Is there currently any way for backers to rate people they backed on KS like you do on ebay?
I feel like that would go a long way to improving trust and communication in the long term.
It wouldn't help for newcomers, but would still be pretty valuable otherwise.
CecilRousso
Member
Why?
mercenar1e
Member
I don't think it applies to his project.. It was just updated so I'm guessing it's for newly created kickstarters. I'll bet that's the last game he puts on KS though lol
1. You know, Designs and stuff.
2. Things. You know, the things! Textures cost a lot of money.
3. Bugs. Cost more than we thought. Ran out of money.
Love and kisses, nice guys.
Joking aside, I don't believe 90% of the people who opt for Kickstarter are at a business capacity where they could successfully and professionally provide an audit trail that would satisfy me as a backer. As such, I tend to not bother. Am I missing out? Maybe. But I'd rather know where I stand. Some may counter "businesses that make retail games release buggy games etc", but thats I risk I can take as an informed buyer as the product actually exists in some form that is allowable to be reviewed under scrunitny at that time of purchase / handing money over.
Haunted
Member
I don't get it, please elaborate.
MrCunningham
Member
From the developer side of things, I don't think this will change much. What can Kickstarter really do to enforce this law? I suppose they could prevent people from making future Kickstarter projects if they don't meet their obligations on the first project. But even then, people will still find ways around this.
This just seems more like a legality put in place to protect Kickstarter themselves than it is to protect pledgers from getting ripped off.
McValdemar
Member
"funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form."
I don't know if this might open to essentially change what they deliver.
Instead of and Rpg they cheaply provide a novlization of what was supposed to be the game.
Could be possible?
I don't know if this might open to essentially change what they deliver.
Instead of and Rpg they cheaply provide a novlization of what was supposed to be the game.
Could be possible?
CecilRousso
Member
It doesn't.
If kickstarter wanted to change anything for the better, that would have a real effect and not just as a crowd pleaser, the would change the format of the project pages to more like proper project plans, and less like store pages. That would make it easier for backers to determine how realistic the projects are, and make the creators both explain their pitch better, and to make them think about what they're doing. That would have helped with cases like the Yogventures project,
But changes like that would mean less projects, which means less money for kickstarter, so it's not going to happen.
Not a single ounce of ruth in this post
mgs2master2
Banned
Double Fine should adopt this as well.
Please, we've had more news on XV in the past few days than we've had in the past year.
It's clear they've made a ton of progress and got past some major hurdles.
That a demo is coming makes it clear that the game is coming relatively soon.
The Dear Leader
Banned
This will probably just lead to a bunch of shit alpha tech demo's getting released as final products, if a game isn't going to get finished for whatever reason, a change in TOS isn't going to change that.
Jup they will just bolt some stuff together and call it a day.
the_batman
Banned
it's a joke.
Neat idea that doesn't really help anything.
As has been said, if someone who has a project runs out of money, how are they expected to refund when they don't even have the money to finish said project?
I mean, I get that this is a neat way for KS to cover their own asses, but in reality, this may just lead to less games being made to begin with, from people who don't want to take the risk, to people asking for more money for a project to be on the safe side they'll be able to finish. /shrug
As has been said, if someone who has a project runs out of money, how are they expected to refund when they don't even have the money to finish said project?
I mean, I get that this is a neat way for KS to cover their own asses, but in reality, this may just lead to less games being made to begin with, from people who don't want to take the risk, to people asking for more money for a project to be on the safe side they'll be able to finish. /shrug
The money needs to go to valve, they will allow the company to reach towards the funds if they have a valid and doable business plan to build the game with the money that is available. If they don't they can refund people the money.
What prevents people at this day of age when they get like 1 million funded, to give themselves a 80k salary each month, and call it a day a year later because there is no money left and blame the world for not paying more.
Give people the freedom and they will abuse the crap out of it.
Charity's are a good example of this.
"hey men, donate to us so you can help these poor people already for 1 euro a month !"
In the meanwhile, the head of the charity sits on his expensive chair in a multimillionaire euro costing house in amsterdam driving in his ferrari towards his second charity location.
Guess my 1 euro a month got well spend.
IsntChrisL
Member
Ruth is hard to find.
Aeriscloud
Banned
The ruth will set you free.
FlyingSaucer
Banned
This update seems fair. I wonder if it's linked to Neal Stephenson's Klang cancelation.
If KS is an investment I want my share of the profits, however minuscule they are (or not - see Oculus). If KS is a preorder I want the damn product.
If KS is an investment I want my share of the profits, however minuscule they are (or not - see Oculus). If KS is a preorder I want the damn product.
KickStarter is not an investment, it is crowdsourcing. An investment suggests you are getting an actualized return.
Jacksinthe
Banned
You don't need an audit trail, you need a Kickstarter that makes sense. If stretch goals are always in equal subsequent increases you know someone has no clue what they are doing. Giving a flat rate increase every tier for different things is a sham. Its never that clean.
A Kickstarter should lay out where every dollar is being spent with for their funded goal. If a 5k project is laying down that division in 500 dollar increments... They're out to get your money and have no clue. Breakdowns need to make sense and you'll never pay the same amount for 10 different elements.
Arbitrary increases that always hit a rather large rounding are red flags. Why does it cost 25k EXACTLY for tier X and 25k for tier Y? Why isn't it 22,250? Or 26,180?
A Kickstarter should never be backed if a first Kickstarter failed and a second one is promising the same thing at a lower price. Something is up. Promising X, Y and Z for 10k then failing and launching a sequel Kickstarter for X, Y and Z for 4k is another red flag. How can the exact same project cost so much less this time around? I want to see a KS with 18,362 as a goal with financials laid out, not 20k flat. Is asking for legit financials too much? Are my expectations too high?
Unless a KS has a brilliant financial plan laid out in its pitch, I won't back it UNLESS I know the person (<3 IndieGAF). You don't need an audit, you need to just read between the lines.
Edit: in addition, I've seen KS blatantly tell you they inflate pricing due to KS and Amazon cuts. You know what? Fuck your shit. That's yours to eat when you ask for coin. As someone who will be making my way to KS soon for a project I'm laying my shit down clean. No "food" costs. Just costs for software and Dev kits. I need to cut my teeth somewhere and I don't expect people to cover every corner of development, that's my burden to fill in the blanks.
Rant end.
SliceSabre
Banned
Good this sits up the scammer projects to get their tails smoked for taking people's money and running with it.
Also just goes to show you how important it is to vet these projects rather than just give into nostalgia and quickly hand over $80 to them. Review them, make sure it makes sense. Make sure they seem to have a plan in place and what they intend to do with the money and how their going to get the product out to market.
Also just goes to show you how important it is to vet these projects rather than just give into nostalgia and quickly hand over $80 to them. Review them, make sure it makes sense. Make sure they seem to have a plan in place and what they intend to do with the money and how their going to get the product out to market.