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Kickstarter updates terms: 'The creator must complete the project'
- Thread starter Shard
- Start date
Not really, as long as the dev gives an update on the points in the OP, they don't have to do anything else.
Yeah, but this is the first time Kickstarter's actually addressed the elephant in the room directly, so it may go some distance to protecting against situations like this arising in the future (TL;DR: The campaign raised over $340k more than three years ago and the company never sent anybody anything).
Speaking of Kickstarter, what the hell is happening with The 90s Arcade Racer ?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/896834116/the-90s-arcade-racer/comments
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/896834116/the-90s-arcade-racer/comments
I'm sorry it's probably early, in terms of accountability you're saying you don't need to be able to provide an audit trail but what you're after is some kind of breakdown of where the financials have gone / are going...like an audit would provide? Admittedly audits are mostly done looking over the project retrospectively but the planning facilities to accomodate audits are process driven and should be implemented from the offset.
The return is the finished game. Whether that is worth $10 or $1000 to someone is completely subjective.
You can't handle the ruth.
I dated a Ruth once, she was really bad with money too
samuraidino
Member
Im all for this.
While I'm definitely not one of those people who's going to be up in arms and screaming for blood if the kickstarter I backed fails, I do think this update will hopefully inspire devs to take a long hard look at their project before bringing it to kickstarter or at least try and bring it to kickstarter with more than just concept art and promises.
I know it's not going to be the case with a lot of projects, but I feel any big money project should be done in a similar way to how larian handled divinity original sin, where the game was essentially built, but the kickstarter was used to provide more scope and polish over all.
On the other hand you could end up with the situation of developers who aren't truly confident in their project deciding to forgo kickstarter and instead do the at times slightly sketchier approach of using their own sites for donations (I'm looking at you "black isle" in name only)
While I'm definitely not one of those people who's going to be up in arms and screaming for blood if the kickstarter I backed fails, I do think this update will hopefully inspire devs to take a long hard look at their project before bringing it to kickstarter or at least try and bring it to kickstarter with more than just concept art and promises.
I know it's not going to be the case with a lot of projects, but I feel any big money project should be done in a similar way to how larian handled divinity original sin, where the game was essentially built, but the kickstarter was used to provide more scope and polish over all.
On the other hand you could end up with the situation of developers who aren't truly confident in their project deciding to forgo kickstarter and instead do the at times slightly sketchier approach of using their own sites for donations (I'm looking at you "black isle" in name only)
SerTapTap
Member
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm you realize the Kickstarter/rewards costs are not optional, right? And that the cash for kickstarter literally comes directly out of the Kickstarter amount? So...it would be grossly irresponsible to not list that. You can't list your costs without listing that.
Also, if someone had the spare money to "eat food" for 1+ years while working on a project (and the several thousand dollars of other annual expenses real meat people actually have) they wouldn't need kickstarter. You don't start a kickstarter to buy a $1000 devkit while you can comfortably pay $20k or whatever a year to keep yourself alive.
The majority of the cost of pretty much any game kickstarter is going to be labor. This is...how software works. It would be lovely if everyone was given infinite free food, shelter and no taxes and only had to pay for a visual studio license and some DS4s to test with, but that's not how it works.
KojiKnight
Member
It's to cover their own asses. If the lawyers are going after the projects, then Kickstarter is the next target.
TheLetdown
Member
This likely the case.
I don't see this affecting that much, with regards to kickstarted games. What/who defines completion? What's to stop a dev from just releasing their working prototype as a way to escape this legal issue and just say, "Hey, I know it doesn't live up to expectations. But this it the completed game. All future development is now an 'update' or a 'bug fix' and not ongoing game development."
Wow that changes EVERYTHING. Oh I'm sorry I meant to say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Same deal as before. Games are incredibly risky creative ventures. How they get funded is immaterial to that fact. If a Kickstarter fails you're going to have to pay for a lawyer to have a hope of getting your money back if the creators can't or won't do it.
Same deal as before. Games are incredibly risky creative ventures. How they get funded is immaterial to that fact. If a Kickstarter fails you're going to have to pay for a lawyer to have a hope of getting your money back if the creators can't or won't do it.
"If your project is successfully funded, Kickstarter will apply a 5% fee to the funds raised, and Amazon will apply credit card processing fees (about 3-5%)"
(Ref: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/fees for US)
Isn't Kickstarter also supposed to take the blame for a unfinished project/production?
Because Kickstarter and Amazon pockets some of the money?
Since Kickstarter has already isolated itself (via terms and conditions against creators), then the backlash on the creators of those failed Kickstarter project/productions also takes the blame of the unreceived 5% (Kickstarter costs) + 3-5% (Amazon cost) from the public eyes (since not a lot of the people who invest money realize the cuts from the entire kickstarter money pool).
Which I think is not correct..
(Ref: https://www.kickstarter.com/help/fees for US)
Isn't Kickstarter also supposed to take the blame for a unfinished project/production?
Because Kickstarter and Amazon pockets some of the money?
Since Kickstarter has already isolated itself (via terms and conditions against creators), then the backlash on the creators of those failed Kickstarter project/productions also takes the blame of the unreceived 5% (Kickstarter costs) + 3-5% (Amazon cost) from the public eyes (since not a lot of the people who invest money realize the cuts from the entire kickstarter money pool).
Which I think is not correct..
Jason Frost
Member
Excellent idea and good news for bakers backers.
CecilRousso
Member
It really isn't when you consider what kickstarter actually is. There are no guarentess and there won't be any.
joey_bone_bomb
Member
How is any of this excellent or good news for backers?
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
How is it not? It will still be hard to actually get some sort of refund, of course. But, at least now the rules are on backers sides when it comes to unfinished projects.
Jason Frost
Member
Like Hero_of_the_Day said previously, how it's not?
It will be a little easier for backers if they want to sue creators or try to get a refund because it's now a rule to reach completion for every project on the website.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
I'm surprised that people still consider that donating money to a project in Kickstarter and getting an item in return is the same than being an active investor in the project (It's not. Get it together.)
Maintenance
Member
Good.
cartoon_soldier
Member
All it does is safeguard KS from any legal action.
You shouldn't be expecting anything on KS to be finished. You are investing in an idea, not a finished product.
You shouldn't be expecting anything on KS to be finished. You are investing in an idea, not a finished product.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
This. Kickstarter needs to be more forward thinking and see that it cannot enforce this in any way, shape, form, or fashion.
Should've been there day one when Double Fine lit a fuse on Kickstarter-games and the like.
This is a total ass-covering move by Kickstarter after that lawsuit. Still, it's at least a good move in regards to holding backers accountable. Think you're going to take the money and run now? NOT ANYMORE.
This is a total ass-covering move by Kickstarter after that lawsuit. Still, it's at least a good move in regards to holding backers accountable. Think you're going to take the money and run now? NOT ANYMORE.
Gully State
Member
Kickstarter can write all they want about TOS. But good luck having them enforce it. Shit like that Susan Wilson fiasco pretty much soured me on Kickstarter.