This thread is about the Wii, not the WiiU.
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Is the Nintendo Wii the most controversial console ever?
- Thread starter Onesimos
- Start date
This thread is about the Wii, not the WiiU.
These sorts of comments are extra funny in retrospect when you compare the long-term impacts of motion-controls and stuff like DLC which started cropping up on the other two consoles at the same time.
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I'm really curious to see how history will look back on the Wii in 10 years. Many of the kids who grew up with the Wii back in 2006-ish are entering their teens or college years now and in 10 years, they'll be adults.
I think based on what I witnessed - never had a Wii, is that there's going to be a lot of N64 style nostalgia with the Wii from the kids who grew up with it but for the people who bought it expecting a rival to the PS360 twins, it will be seen as a bit of a disappointment. I think casual people will probably view it the same way they view Furby and Tickle Me Elmo - as the must have Christmas toy of 2006-07.
The N64 was an interesting case because if you had one at the time of its release and you were an adult, you were pretty disappointed with its offerings. I remember the main criticism of the system at the time from the videogame press was that you often had to wait 6-7 months in between good games. Those people writing that narrative are now out of the industry for the most part and the kids who grew up with the N64 seem to have a much more positive spin on the console are now the ones writing the narrative. I think the Wii is going to see something similar in the gaming press when 2006's 10-13 year olds hit their mid to late 20's.
I think based on what I witnessed - never had a Wii, is that there's going to be a lot of N64 style nostalgia with the Wii from the kids who grew up with it but for the people who bought it expecting a rival to the PS360 twins, it will be seen as a bit of a disappointment. I think casual people will probably view it the same way they view Furby and Tickle Me Elmo - as the must have Christmas toy of 2006-07.
The N64 was an interesting case because if you had one at the time of its release and you were an adult, you were pretty disappointed with its offerings. I remember the main criticism of the system at the time from the videogame press was that you often had to wait 6-7 months in between good games. Those people writing that narrative are now out of the industry for the most part and the kids who grew up with the N64 seem to have a much more positive spin on the console are now the ones writing the narrative. I think the Wii is going to see something similar in the gaming press when 2006's 10-13 year olds hit their mid to late 20's.
Oh, guess people are always afraid of new things, no matter when.
Its kinda sad that we saw the same kind of reactions on the WiiU controler.
I think the Wii definitely had a group of detractors that were very vocal and bitter, but I don't really think it was that controversial a console when all was said and done.
It had really interesting, well implemented ideas, it was a huge financial and commercial success, it had a great library. It put Nintendo back on the map after they sort of lost their way in the GameCube years. Most people saw the value, and it was received accordingly. Some people didn't, and said dumb stuff, but they weren't ever really entertained for very long as anything other than fanboys.
I really think the Xbox One has been the most controversial console ever.
This was a console that, before it was even released, hell before its details were even officially unveiled at E3, was being held up as the death of retail gaming, the dark vision for a digital only future filled with DRM, the erosion of consumer rights, a hugely out of touch expensive, American centric disaster, a tool of the police state, hostile to people who lived outside of cities, outside of the USA, who lived on military bases, etc etc etc. Not to say these things were all necessarily true or accurate, but the controversy of the system definitely existed.
I mean, even with all this in the rear view mirror, this is still a console, justifiably or unjustifiably, still generating immense controversy. Look at the Tomb Raider deal. Look at the accusations Ubisoft gimped Unity to work with it due to the parity clause. With its microtransactions on several high profile titles. It's just on another level.
It had really interesting, well implemented ideas, it was a huge financial and commercial success, it had a great library. It put Nintendo back on the map after they sort of lost their way in the GameCube years. Most people saw the value, and it was received accordingly. Some people didn't, and said dumb stuff, but they weren't ever really entertained for very long as anything other than fanboys.
I really think the Xbox One has been the most controversial console ever.
This was a console that, before it was even released, hell before its details were even officially unveiled at E3, was being held up as the death of retail gaming, the dark vision for a digital only future filled with DRM, the erosion of consumer rights, a hugely out of touch expensive, American centric disaster, a tool of the police state, hostile to people who lived outside of cities, outside of the USA, who lived on military bases, etc etc etc. Not to say these things were all necessarily true or accurate, but the controversy of the system definitely existed.
I mean, even with all this in the rear view mirror, this is still a console, justifiably or unjustifiably, still generating immense controversy. Look at the Tomb Raider deal. Look at the accusations Ubisoft gimped Unity to work with it due to the parity clause. With its microtransactions on several high profile titles. It's just on another level.
Agreed 100%. Hard to think of anything more controversial than the Xbox One. Even the Xbox 360 was in a few ways, specifically with the Red Ring of Death.
The Wii isn't contoversial. Almost everbody has had fun with it at some point and they can see the attraction of a proper software title for it. Its problem is that Nintendo or third parties have been unable to produce enough great motion content for it. It pretty much became a one hit wonder for most people and that fact can only carry a console for so long.
one of the most successful consoles of all time, with people trying to use metrics that don't matter to discredit its success. That debate will never end.
It was an expansive device that was good for the market, the issue is having a product that can or may ever replicate its success with the mainstream. The real debate after wii should be if a console will be as relevant to average consumers ever again.
The moments we've seen where hardware and a game truly marry each other to sell a concept is rare.
It was an expansive device that was good for the market, the issue is having a product that can or may ever replicate its success with the mainstream. The real debate after wii should be if a console will be as relevant to average consumers ever again.
The moments we've seen where hardware and a game truly marry each other to sell a concept is rare.
Yeah it's not like every device capable of playing games has some method of motion control available to use or anything. Not even the most successful ones that sell millions per month.
And it's library? Nope, didn't have the highest selling titles last generation at all, with some of the most memorable impacts among them.
It's a fad alright.
(It's crazy that some people still harbor the sodium chloride)
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
It's library? which features some of the highest rated games of all time? Which are incredibly memorable and well praised, which also was the last hurrah for middleware games where the game didnt need to sell millions to make a profit?
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I don't see it as a controversial system, but it definitely marks the point where Nintendo and myself finally parted ways.
People are just afraid of new things, and they're very loud and annoying about that. The Wii was a great console with great games, it had a novel controller and some of the games actually made use of it in cool ways. And it had tons of games you couldn't find anywhere else, a nice break from the shooting genre which infected the other two systems.
Metallix87
Member
The Wii was, by far, the most forward-thinking game console ever conceived by Nintendo, in my opinion, and also a system that was doomed by a mixture of hardcore gamer disinterest, gaming media disinterest, and a fervent desire from third party publishers for it to die. It's saving grace was the love it received from the casual gamers and the non-gaming media.
Nintendo had realized that production costs were spiraling out of control, both in terms of hardware development and manufacturing and also software development. They realized that offering gamers something new, while making use of less-than-bleeding edge tech would allow them to make more money while also allowing consumers to experience games in a way they never could before. Unfortunately, the major third party publishers had already banked on the HD Twins dominating, and as such, they relegated the Wii to the status of dumping grounds for shovelware. The gaming media, of course, were all-too-happy to play ball with the publishers. What followed was wave after wave of shovelware and "test games". Sure, there were gems here and there, but the software ecosystem became toxic overtime, and soon publishers abandoned ship as the consumers gravitated more and more towards the higher quality releases being offered by Nintendo.
I've heard the Wii called a fad again and again and again, but it was not a fad. Even when it was "dying", it was still doing relatively well, despite having only one or two major game releases per year.
Nintendo had realized that production costs were spiraling out of control, both in terms of hardware development and manufacturing and also software development. They realized that offering gamers something new, while making use of less-than-bleeding edge tech would allow them to make more money while also allowing consumers to experience games in a way they never could before. Unfortunately, the major third party publishers had already banked on the HD Twins dominating, and as such, they relegated the Wii to the status of dumping grounds for shovelware. The gaming media, of course, were all-too-happy to play ball with the publishers. What followed was wave after wave of shovelware and "test games". Sure, there were gems here and there, but the software ecosystem became toxic overtime, and soon publishers abandoned ship as the consumers gravitated more and more towards the higher quality releases being offered by Nintendo.
I've heard the Wii called a fad again and again and again, but it was not a fad. Even when it was "dying", it was still doing relatively well, despite having only one or two major game releases per year.
Who exactly are you making fun of? the millions of players who brought games like Zelda and Mario? Or old people? Don't they have the right to play? You too will be old one day,Yes. Polarizing.
I introduce to you, G4M3RRSSSSSSSZZZZ:
I'm talking about how people struggled with Nintendo and decried their efforts to reach out to the 'blue ocean' market. Old people playing video games, never before thought of or even considered possible suddenly became a normal reality. What the devil did you think I was talking about?
That thread sure is something special.
That thread proves that people think they know way better than they actually do. And they love jumping to (wrong) conlusions...
Anyway to answer the thread, Wii Remote sure was controversial, Wii U gamepad is controversial, many thing nintendo do are controversial but I wouldn't say Wii was the most controversial console ever.
BumblebeeCody
Member
Not really controversial, just failed to be a good Nintendo system for the fans. It's col that grannies and goldfish can play the novelty wore off quickly. For us who bought it to play the latest games during that time, it sucked. I use it for the Internet in bed and Project M.
LegendofLex
Member
That certainly explains why Super Mario Galaxy is the best-selling 3D Mario, New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold better than any 2D Mario bar the very first, Twilight Princess was the best-selling Zelda game with the vast majority of copies sold on Wii, Super Smash Bros. Brawl sold about 4-5m more copies than Melee, Donkey Kong Country made a seriously triumphant comeback, Monster Hunter Tri outsold the previous entries which were on PlayStation 2 of all things, and Mario Kart Wii somehow topped the lifetime sales for every other console entry combined.
Yup, that was a console that sucked for people who wanted to play the latest games. None of those people were satisfied, clearly! And those new gamer grannies were definitely big fans of Twilight Princess and Smash Bros!
HeartlessNobody213
Member
Yeah, polarizing is the more fitting term. For me, I didn't enjoy the Wii that much at all. The Gamecube was the last Nintendo console I enjoyed. I bought one game for the Wii which was Smash. I ended up selling the Wii two years later.
pinkurocket
Member
I think the controls were definitely quite controversial for the hardcore gamerz. Nintendo breaking into the casual market is quite remarkable in my opinion, however the console still got really good games non-casual during it's lifetime.
The Wiimote was a great idea that spawned a lot of cool concepts, I also feel the lack of power of the console forced developers to be more creative with making their games look good. Lack of HDMI was a huge bummer and I also wish it had Wiimotion+ since launch which might've lessened some of the typical waggle controls developers often used...
The Wiimote was a great idea that spawned a lot of cool concepts, I also feel the lack of power of the console forced developers to be more creative with making their games look good. Lack of HDMI was a huge bummer and I also wish it had Wiimotion+ since launch which might've lessened some of the typical waggle controls developers often used...
Stormwatch
Member
The OUYA had some controversies surrounding it. Between retail customers receiving the units before most Kickstarter backers, broken controllers on arrival, and getting kicked out of E3 they got off to a really bad start.
Kacho
Member
The Wii is interesting in that it sold like crazy to gamers and non-gamers alike, but eventually alienated a lot of people a few years into its life. At least that's how I saw it. Nintendo has improved a lot since then in my eyes and they have made a good effort at appealing to gamers minds and wallets since then. That said, I feel the Wii did do a lot of damage to their brand and they're still paying for it now.
they have adapters that lets you output to hdmi for wii but its only 480p upscaled (or whatever the other term is where its not actually 720p), still much better looking than the standard def cables that come with, image is cleaner/sharper.
Cheapest i've found is ebay but seems like monoprice, amazon, bestbuy etc carry it also
Cheapest i've found is ebay but seems like monoprice, amazon, bestbuy etc carry it also
Tidus_Great
Banned
I think reactions to it were pretty standard. casual gamers liked it for 15 minutes then it usually collected dust In the closet and the Nintendo fans would stick to first party stuff. People into the more mature titles had ps3/360 or pc
As stated already in this topic, if that were the case, then the attach ratio wouldn't have been so high.
EDIT for my amusement:
jeremy1456
Junior Member
How would people blame Nintendo on Japan's struggle with HD development? That's like blaming Nintendo for FMV filled games in the 32-bit era.
LegendofLex
Member
Even if it's true that a large portion of the install base (for the sake of argument, let's say 15 million, the difference between the Wii and Xbox or PS3 install bases) only bought 1-3 games and then stuck it in a closet, that just means the remaining 85 million users bought a bigger portion of the system's software units. So the negative "casual" outliers were still largely offset by positive "active users," resulting in a still-healthy average attach rate.
Wii system sales LTD = 101.15m
Wii software sales LTD = 896.82m
Wii average attach rate = 896.82m / 101.15m = 8.866 games per system
Assumption: 15m Wii users were casual users who bought about 3 games each
Number of games sold to casual users = 15m casual users x 3 games per user = 45m games
Number of other users = 101.15m - 15m = 86.15m users
Number of games sold to other users = 896.82m - 45m = 851.82 games sold to other users
Attach rate for other users = 851.82m / 86.15m = 9.88 games per user
So even if a large number of "casual users" bought Wii, the remaining userbase bought at least as many games as the average PS3/Xbox 360 owner. The more casual customers you assume there were, the more active the remaining userbase must have been to achieve the overall attach rate.
killatopak
Member
Holy shit GIF avatars!
SirUltimos
Member
I think this thread shows pretty well how polarizing the system was. We have people from both the love it side and the hate it side.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Probably.
It's one of those consoles that you come back to later and find the gems, if you were like me and tossed it aside originally due to the motion focus. Funny that it feels like a retro console, so soon after it's demise.
It's one of those consoles that you come back to later and find the gems, if you were like me and tossed it aside originally due to the motion focus. Funny that it feels like a retro console, so soon after it's demise.
LegendofLex
Member
How is it funny? One of the very first things we knew about it was that it was going to play retro games, then that its main controller was a remote that could be used sideways like an NES pad. And the best-selling games on the system all capture the NES-era feels of arcade games in your living room.
What you're reporting was the killer appeal of the system: it was always supposed to feel like a modern version of a retro console.
I thought it was a retro console the day it was released, but in a good way... a very good way.
It felt like we went back to the fun/simplicity of early NES games. I loved it... and I still do.
shadowsdarknes
Member
It was very controversial.
At times, it was remarkably refreshing and had some very unique and accessible games. I actually got to play video games with people who never really enjoyed a game before. Grown adults loved it.
But there's also the other side. It was under powered. The feature set was weak. There were droughts. Some games were too casual. And it lived a relatively short life. Motion controls were often very hit or miss.
It was Nintendo at the top of their game Id say.
At times, it was remarkably refreshing and had some very unique and accessible games. I actually got to play video games with people who never really enjoyed a game before. Grown adults loved it.
But there's also the other side. It was under powered. The feature set was weak. There were droughts. Some games were too casual. And it lived a relatively short life. Motion controls were often very hit or miss.
It was Nintendo at the top of their game Id say.
The Wii is my second favourite Nintendo consoles behind the N64. Its library of games was fantastic, I personally loved the Wii remote and especially the IR aiming, even if the implementation of motion controls in many games tended to be detrimental. Unfortunately, the best aspects of the console are going to be entirely gone by the next generation at the latest. The games industry doubled down on conservatism when gamers reacted with such spit-addled fury at their hobby becoming more inclusive and attempting innovation beyond 'better' visuals. The result was the Wii U's incomprehensible mishmash of design philosophies, suiting neither one audience nor the other, and the PS4 and XBox One offering nothing but a (slight) visual improvement over their predecessors, which themselves were not exactly rife with design innovation (though did do a lot of interesting things online, some very good, some very bad).
I love how everyone's mocking Nintendo for thinking Sony and Microsoft would want to copy it.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Ehhhhh.... I'm a huge retro game fanatic, and I can kinda see where you could make the comparision, but I had trouble getting past the motion controls. Part of that was me being closed minded, but, you have to admit that in some cases the motion was tacked on and actually detracted from the experience.
Good motion controls: Okami and the celestial brush.
Bad motion controls: Metal Slug Collection and being forced to shake nunchuck for bombs.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
It was a fad dude. Some fads are more intense than others. The fire that burns twice as bright burns out in half the time.
Those days are over.
The same way the PS3 and 360 were fads, just over a slightly longer period of time.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
PS3 and 360 are more derivative, to the point where PS4 and Xbone are simply new iterations. Wii is different. There is no longer anything truly like it making the same impacts and offering the same experiences.
LegendofLex
Member
Except this fire burned twice as bright and kept burning for exactly the same amount of time as every other Nintendo console. It even followed roughly the same sales curve as GameCube: peak in Year 3, slow decline in Years 4 and 5, utter drop-off in Year 6. The difference, of course, being that it sold about 5:1 over GameCube.
Data here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library/historical_data/pdf/consolidated_sales_e1406.pdf