• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Does the lack of shovelware/minor games at retail hurt the industry?

S

sphinx

the piano man
ever since shovelware moved to online-only, mostly on mobiles but also on all major consoles, shelves are mostly full of premium AAA games, which is nice,

but it also gives the impresion that "there's no games" for any of the major players. Videogame shelves are merely a shadow of what they were in the PS2/Wii eras.

Admittedly, online shops on the major consoles are full of stuff that is hit or miss. Some stuff is worth checking out and other stuff is blatant shovelware, but either way, how will people know, at all, if they don't frequent gaf and other major online sites.

would putting colorful plastic cards with art of said minor games on retail change people's perception or help matters? do you think that's fine how it is?

I am trying to put myself in the place of a random guy who doesn't know better and will go to a videogame store to let the products speak by themselves and have them convince him of buying them. In that scenario, I'd never buy anything, shelves are barren wastelands but maybe if I sensed there's some excitement around a product, with plenty of stuff to buy, I'd have a better feeling and jump in.

PS4 seems immune to this and is selling purely by itself, regardless of "in-store excitement" but everything else is dying at worst or not succeeding like they should at best.

bottomline/tldr: is the presence of shovelware/B-tier games at retail good, bad or make no difference for the industry??
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
you're confusing shovelware for mid-budget, they are not the same. Lack of shovelware doesn't hurt the industry, but lack of mid-budget games does. Mid-budget games didn't move to digital distribution for no reason, though - they did so because life at retail is not sustainable for a mid-budget release anymore.

More than anything, we're seeing the limits of retail these days.
 
A

A.D. Skinner

Member
From what I read, most people see most of the games as shovelware anyway, probably because the actual shovelware is gone...so yes I guess it is hurting as people are really not seeing premium when its there.
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
Tobor said:
It hurts Best Buy and GameStop, but not the industry. The industry is moving to digital.
Click to expand...

QuickSilverD said:
Indies man
Click to expand...

but I ask again, how will anyone know that mid-low budget games and shovelware have gone digital??

I am a 10 year old kid holding a Vita in my hands in a store.

what will make me aware of the world of games there is to discover and that the 2 or 3 gamecases of Gravity Rush rotting there in the shelfspace is not representative of the software state of the console??
 
O

Opiate

Member
It's only a problem for consoles, where the market remains stubbornly focused on retail. It's obviously not an issue on PC, tablets or phones, where the shovelware has long since migrated to digital (or was there in the first place).

If "the industry" means "consoles," then yes, it's a problem. Not one that cannot be resolved, though.
 
H

hoserx

Member
sphinx said:
but I ask again, how will anyone know that mid-low budget games and shovelware have gone digital??

I am a 10 year old kid holding a Vita in my hands in a store.

what will make me aware of the world of games there is to discover and that the 2 or 3 gamecases of Gravity Rush rotting there in the shelfspace is not representative of the software state of the console??
Click to expand...

10 year old kids in 2014 have been on the internet for their entire lives. They know where the games are if they are fans of games. My friend teaches art to kids between 7-12, I visit them on career day and we talk about games, they are on top of this shit just like I am at 31.
 
W

wiibomb

Member
sphinx said:
but I ask again, how will anyone know that mid-low budget games and shovelware have gone digital??

I am a 10 year old kid holding a Vita in my hands in a store.

what will make me aware of the world of games there is to discover and that the 2 or 3 gamecases of Gravity Rush rotting there in the shelfspace is not representative of the software state of the console??
Click to expand...

because there is a thing called Playstation Store that is similar to the store in their smartphones?

kids of that age have alredy met with things like an smartphone store, its not difficult to check the store of a Vita or 3DS where they can see lots of mid-budget and shovelware titles.

remember kids these days have been with internet and know more that we did on our times (around 1990-2003)
 
E

ekim

Member
Retail Shovelware is still a thing here in Germany.
Flappy_Bird_HD.jpg


Lots of Hidden Objects games and other stuff that's usually only available digitally.

Blame those guys here:
http://www.software-pyramide.de/pc/?sPage=1&sSort=3
 
S

sphinx

the piano man
Opiate said:
It's only a problem for consoles, where the market remains stubbornly focused on retail. It's obviously not an issue on PC, tablets or phones, where the shovelware has long since migrated to digital (or was there in the first place).

If "the industry" means "consoles," then yes, it's a problem. Not one that cannot be resolved, though.
Click to expand...

PC has always been in a world of its own anyway so yeah, I pretty much meant consoles. PC gamers are way too tech-savy to have to rely on the picture of "shelves full of colorful games" to entice them to buy anything.

hoserx said:
10 year old kids in 2014 have been on the internet for their entire lives. They know where the games are if they are fans of games. My friend teaches art to kids between 7-12, I visit them on career day and we talk about games, they are on top of this shit just like I am at 31.
Click to expand...

wiibomb said:
because there is a thing called Playstation Store that is similar to the store in their smartphones?

kids of that age have alredy met with things like an smartphone store, its not difficult to check the store of a Vita or 3DS where they can see lots of mid-budget and shovelware titles.

remember kids these days have been with internet and know more that we did on our times (around 1990-2003)
Click to expand...

point taken,

returning to the bolded question in the OP, yeah, games are somewhere and people are savy enough to understand there's an online store but I'd guess it's hard to sell things to people they can't see or try.

the premise of this thread is: when I am in a store, what sells me on the digital-only mid-tier goodness (and for those into it, shovelware) there is in every console? what makes me aware of it?? should I just have faith and buy and hope there's something that looks interesting in the digital store after I have shelled around 199 dls/euros/whatever?

I think that while low-budget games should stay digital-only, they should perhaps somehow try to raise awareness of their existence in videogame stores. Letting people discover the games through the eshops isn't enough, in my opinion.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
One mans shovelware is another mans guilty pleasure, is another mans rough diamond.

Yes, lack of shovelware hurts the industry.
An entertainment medium with a lack of diversity is an entertainment medium moving to obsolescence via nichedom.
 
T

Tobor

Member
sphinx said:
but I ask again, how will anyone know that mid-low budget games and shovelware have gone digital??

I am a 10 year old kid holding a Vita in my hands in a store.

what will make me aware of the world of games there is to discover and that the 2 or 3 gamecases of Gravity Rush rotting there in the shelfspace is not representative of the software state of the console??
Click to expand...

10 year olds have been living with digital content their whole lives. They know exactly where the content is.

hoserx said:
10 year old kids in 2014 have been on the internet for their entire lives. They know where the games are if they are fans of games. My friend teaches art to kids between 7-12, I visit them on career day and we talk about games, they are on top of this shit just like I am at 31.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
R

ryuken-d

Member
sphinx said:
ever since shovelware moved to online-only, mostly on mobiles but also on all major consoles, shelves are mostly full of premium AAA games, which is nice,

but it also gives the impresion that "there's no games" for any of the major players. Videogame shelves are merely a shadow of what they were in the PS2/Wii eras.

Admittedly, online shops on the major consoles are full of stuff that is hit or miss. Some stuff is worth checking out and other stuff is blatant shovelware, but either way, how will people know, at all, if they don't frequent gaf and other major online sites.

would putting colorful plastic cards with art of said minor games on retail change people's perception or help matters? do you think that's fine how it is?

I am trying to put myself in the place of a random guy who doesn't know better and will go to a videogame store to let the products speak by themselves and have them convince him of buying them. In that scenario, I'd never buy anything, shelves are barren wastelands but maybe if I sensed there's some excitement around a product, with plenty of stuff to buy, I'd have a better feeling and jump in.

PS4 seems immune to this and is selling purely by itself, regardless of "in-store excitement" but everything else is dying at worst or not succeeding like they should at best.

bottomline/tldr: is the presence of shovelware/B-tier games at retail good, bad or make no difference for the industry??
Click to expand...

shovelware and "B" tier games couldn't be more different. I was about to go stupid over here until I read your post.

Now I understand. Indie games are plentiful unless you don't have an internet connection and I have so many games its annoying me when I hear "there are no games" seriously the list is huge and I have at least 600G of games on my PS4 already and I don't even have all of them.
 
G

GalacticMouse

Member
sphinx said:
::snip::

the premise of this thread is: when I am in a store, what sells me on the digital-only mid-tier goodness (and for those into it, shovelware) there is in every console? what makes me aware of it?? should I just have faith and buy and hope there's something that looks interesting in the digital store after I have shelled around 199 dls/euros/whatever?

I think that while low-budget games should stay digital-only, they should perhaps somehow try to raise awareness of their existence in videogame stores. Letting people discover the games through the eshops isn't enough, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

You keep focusing on the bolded line, which I feel misses the point of consumerism in 2014...in a lot of cases, you don't need stores anymore...especially in tech products. It's a huge part of the reason we're seeing articles constantly talking about the demise of Best Buy. It's much much easier to buy things online. Amazon has basically made themselves the king of impulse purchasing with Amazon Prime 2-Day Shipping (and $3.99 1-Day Shipping).

Furthermore, people have already accepted that digital media is most easily accessible through an online shop. With music and movies (and now games) you don't have to wait for the package, it just downloads right after you pay and you have immediate access to your purchase. The immediate access part is the only thing games have left to solve. Sony's done a great job with their "play as you download" feature and they've already talked about streaming game demos via their PlayStation Now tech...so why not let you stream a game until it's downloaded? You could have full access to your title via streaming tech until your HDD copy is ready to go.

Once this tech catches up and publishers realize that digital pricing should reflect the lower overhead costs, there's really no significant reason to shop for games in a store, and AAA games will pull away from retail and save themselves the cost and hassle of printing, packaging, and shipping discs.
 
C

Celine

Member
It hurts variety (for the good but niche games at least) but I would say the lack lower production value tier games is more a symptom of malaise of the tradition industry.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
No one goes to Gamestop just searching for hidden gems and walks out with Enter the Matrix anymore. I don't really see this as a problem. The "clueless potential console buyer" is a myth. Anyone within the target demographic is bombarded with weekly advertisements for the biggest shootbang/adventure/sports games. They know what these boxes are about. No one is buying $400 consoles these days to play shovelware, they can get plenty of it for free or dirt cheap elsewhere.

Nearly everyone who plays modern games is aware on some level of a digital storefront. You can't even buy most AAA PC games in stores anymore, and mobile games are obviously all digital. Games that are worth playing/popular get pushed to the tops of the "most purchased" lists on all these storefronts, and it avalanches from there.

Celine said:
It hurts variety (for the good but niche games at least) but I would say the lack lower production value tier games is more a symptom of malaise of the tradition industry.
Click to expand...

There are more games than ever with lower production values, they just (rightfully) don't exist in the $60 shelf space.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Let shovelware die.

"B tier" as in stuff like, I dunno, Bomberman? Sad to see stuff like that not sell, but the retail publishing environment was always complete hell for that stuff. If only console users were less allergic to digital I think this situation would be better all around. There were some huge middle-tier successes in the past due to retail, but also a ton of flops and far, far more games that simply never came to be because of the requirement of a publisher. Fuck that noise.
 
D

Danneee

Member
I think shovel ware have moved on to be the higher budget games. Just look at yearly cash ins like CoD, sports games, AssCreed and so on. Mostly the same game, few improvements.

Edit: I'm sure a lot of people won't agree with this but that's ok.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Sir TapTap said:
Let shovelware die.

"B tier" as in stuff like, I dunno, Bomberman? Sad to see stuff like that not sell, but the retail publishing environment was always complete hell for that stuff. If only console users were less allergic to digital I think this situation would be better all around. There were some huge middle-tier successes in the past due to retail, but also a ton of flops and far, far more games that simply never came to be because of the requirement of a publisher. Fuck that noise.
Click to expand...

Console gaming will be more receptive to digital when one of the manufacturers puts some real effort into a truly backwards compatible digital environment, similar to iOS/Playstore/Steam.

I can build a new PC tomorrow and still play games released in 2004. I actually stopped buying digital games for my 360 when I heard the rumors their new console wouldn't have BC.

MrNyarlathotep said:
On consoles?
Click to expand...

As Opiate pointed out, conflating "the industry" with "consoles" is a hopelessly outdated way of thinking. There are lots of successes in the low budget space on PC and mobile, because their business models and publishing options are superior to consoles/handhelds for those kinds of experiences.

Take something like Super Meat Boy. It would have been a decent success on the SNES/Genesis generation, a complete flop in the PS1/PS2 generations, and was able to find success at a modest price in the digital space in the early part of this decade.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Sho_Nuff82 said:
As Opiate pointed out, conflating "the industry" with "consoles" is a hopelessly outdated way of thinking.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, but the OP clarified he's talking about the console space, and the consoles clearly have lost their shovelware manufacturers.

Note that Indies are not shovelware, and note that shovelware doesn't mean 'bad game', it means professionally published on a low budget.

Marlow Briggs was shovelware.
 
A

Ansatz

Member
Ultimately yes, basically every Fifa/GTA gamer who owns one of the PS4/XBO I know are only interested in the blockbuster franchises, while indie games are a waste of time, something you get for free through PSN+, download but barely touch.

I say good luck with that future, where titles like Sunset Overdrive and The Evil Within will soon disappear as well, making the lack of software diversity painfully evident. Have funs. I've moved on to indies on PC.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
Chacranajxy said:
There's enough shovelware on mobile. We don't need to suffocate the whole industry.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if we are talking about shovelware, I feel like it has been mostly plaguing mobile devices and more recently Steam over the last few years. I love Steam as a platform, it is the greatest digital delivery service in existence, but Greenlight and Early Access has been an open door invitation for so many ill-conceived half baked Unity engine titles that follow in the footsteps of Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing. Just watch Jim Sterlings Youtube channel to see the dreck that gets put on Steam.

Granted, I don't think it hurts a service like Steam too much, and they did change their store front page to filter out the garbage. But then again, these type of games always existed in the PC space as there are no guidelines or quality control that a game title has to pass through. I still remember the days when you would find hundreds of obscure PC shovelware games that would clutter up bargain bins in computer stores.

But then again, we aren't really talking about PC shovel ware, we are talking about console games. And I do think the lack of niche lower priced titles do hurt the overall sales of a home console. You need those smaller grade titles that create a filler in between the bigger AAA releases to exist. This is where Nintendo's current problem lies with the Wii-U, as there are too many dry spells between major releases. I have this feeling that people at SCE realized this pre-PS4 launch and they started catering to indie developers with their whole "PS heart Indie" campaign. This is also what made iOS a runaway success. Early iPod Touch commercials were advertising indie games heavily on the platform.


Krejlooc said:
you're confusing shovelware for mid-budget, they are not the same. Lack of shovelware doesn't hurt the industry, but lack of mid-budget games does. Mid-budget games didn't move to digital distribution for no reason, though - they did so because life at retail is not sustainable for a mid-budget release anymore.

More than anything, we're seeing the limits of retail these days.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I agree with this. mid-budget games ≠ shovelware.
 
J

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Opiate said:
It's only a problem for consoles, where the market remains stubbornly focused on retail. It's obviously not an issue on PC, tablets or phones, where the shovelware has long since migrated to digital (or was there in the first place).

If "the industry" means "consoles," then yes, it's a problem. Not one that cannot be resolved, though.
Click to expand...

Curious as to what you mean by "stubbornly" in your example?
 
H

Hibiki Kurosawa

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
One mans shovelware is another mans guilty pleasure, is another mans rough diamond.

Yes, lack of shovelware hurts the industry.
An entertainment medium with a lack of diversity is an entertainment medium moving to obsolescence via nichedom.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I know when shovelware was huge, especially on Wii, it would bother and disgust me to see all that crap on the shelves, but at the same time it was nice to see that variety and breadth of games. It made the console library feel "healthier", not to mention there are some real gems in there.

Does Deadly Premonition count as shovelware? Because that is one of the greatest gaming experiences of the generation.
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Eliminating bad games' presence is best for the long-term health of the industry. I'd argue that the gross oversaturation of shovelware on Wii was a huge factor in it dropping off a cliff later in its life, and did no favor for the Wii U brand. People held up Wii's attach rate as such a positive, but given the general quality of the Wii library, that translated to a lot of people getting a lot of games they ended up regretting. People can only take so much disappointment before they just swear off of buying altogether.

You have to wonder how much of this "I'll never pay for a game again" sentiment that's fueling the F2P craze is a kind of secondary fallout from the hottest game system in the industry's history having a vast library... that was a more densely-packed minefield of shit than we've ever seen. We'd gotten proliferations of undercooked cash grabs on previous juggernauts like PS2 and NES, but there were also plenty of diamonds mixed in. Outside the occasional first party game, and certainly after the first few years where any notable publishers scratched their head and walked away from attempting anything vaguely inspired, Wii was a swamp of pure, creamy offal.
 
E

elhav

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
One mans shovelware is another mans guilty pleasure, is another mans rough diamond.

Yes, lack of shovelware hurts the industry.
An entertainment medium with a lack of diversity is an entertainment medium moving to obsolescence via nichedom.
Click to expand...
But shovelware isn't about diversity, is it?
It's about cashing in on popular trademarks with little to no fucks given about the actual quality of the game.

If we were talking about budget titles or B-tier games then yes, these are certainly important. But shovelware?
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Shig said:
Eliminating bad games' presence is best for the long-term health of the industry.
Click to expand...

Who decides that?
I fucking love Brink. I think it was one of the best FPSes released in the last generation.

I am in a minority.

Fuck me for liking Brink and thinking Halo is shit, right?
Maybe all FPSes should be Halo.
Maybe everyone who doesn't like Halo should go get a new hobby. Then we have the industry we always deserved without filthy non-Halo lovers cluttering it up.
Replace above titles with anything you like and nobody else does and something you don't like that is super popular and high budget


Shig said:
You have to wonder how much of this "I'll never pay for a game again" sentiment that's fueling the F2P craze is a kind of secondary fallout from the hottest game system in the industry's history having a vast library... that was a more densely-packed minefield of shit than we've ever seen. We'd gotten proliferations of undercooked cash grabs on previous juggernauts like PS2 and NES, but there were also plenty of diamonds mixed in. Outside the occasional first party game, and certainly after the first few years where any notable publishers scratched their head and walked away from attempting anything vaguely inspired, Wii was a swamp of pure, creamy offal.
Click to expand...

Only if you have some sort of agenda and don't attribute the "F2P craze" to anything more than the same sentiments as "the software piracy craze", that "free" is a better value proposition than "paid".

EDIT:
elhav said:
But shovelware isn't about diversity, is it?
It's about cashing in on popular trademarks with little to no fucks given about the actual quality of the game.

If we were talking about budget titles or B-tier games then yes, these are certainly important. But shovelware?
Click to expand...

Of course its about diversity.
If you're a huge fan of <insert licenced brand> and someone makes an okay low budget game based on that brand, you're automatically going to add a few points to that score for being based on that brand.
Its also not just licenced stuff. As I mentioned above, EDF, Onechabara and Marlow Briggs are all "ascended" shovelware where they have some degree of respect / cult following that exceeds their lowest possible budget roots.

EDIT2:
I mean, its not about how little a developer cares, its about how much they were paid to make a product.
Some developers literally can't just phone it in for their super low budget offering - they'll make something thats sort of fun even despite being done on a shoestring budget with their work experience team
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
MrNyarlathotep said:
Who decides that?
I fucking love Brink. I think it was one of the best FPSes released in the last generation.

I am in a minority.

Fuck me for liking Brink and thinking Halo is shit, right?
Maybe all FPSes should be Halo.
Maybe everyone who doesn't like Halo should go get a new hobby. Then we have the industry we always deserved without filthy non-Halo lovers cluttering it up.
Replace above titles with anything you like and nobody else does and something you don't like that is super popular and high budget
Click to expand...
I'm only speaking to shovelware. Brink's not shovelware.

And plenty of games that fit under the 'good' umbrella will never be popular, so this 'what's good= what's popular' argument you're addressing wasn't one I actually made.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Shig said:
I'm only speaking to shovelware. Brink's not shovelware.

And plenty of games that fit under the 'good' umbrella will never be popular, so this 'what's good= what's popular' argument you're addressing wasn't one I actually made.
Click to expand...

No, but you're effectively asking for the Nintendo Seal Of Quality to be brought back, when history has made it clear that having a "quality gatekeeper" is a worse thing than having a free market.
 
MrCunningham

MrCunningham

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
No, but you're effectively asking for the Nintendo Seal Of Quality to be brought back, when history has made it clear that having a "quality gatekeeper" is a worse thing than having a free market.
Click to expand...

In all honesty the Nintendo Seal of Quality was never really indicative of the quality of the software. There are tons of garbage NES games with that label on the box. That label was really there to ensure that the quality of the parts used for the NES cartridges met Nintendos' standards and that the game met the requirements of their censorship guidelines and such. Basically it was put there as a reassurance that the cartridge wouldn't blow up a person's NES.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
MrNyarlathotep said:
I don't disagree, but the OP clarified he's talking about the console space, and the consoles clearly have lost their shovelware manufacturers.

Note that Indies are not shovelware, and note that shovelware doesn't mean 'bad game', it means professionally published on a low budget.

Marlow Briggs was shovelware.
Click to expand...

Since we're establishing definitions, why does a publishing source disqualify someone from this label?
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
MrCunningham said:
In all honesty the Nintendo Seal of Quality was never really indicative of the quality of the software. There are tons of garbage NES games with that label on the box.
Click to expand...

That's sort of my point.

"Shovelware" is talking about game budget, and game budget does not automatically equate to game quality. I mean, sure, there's a high correlation, but you get low budget games that are super fun for what they are just as you get utterly derivative dreck AAA titles.

Traditionally you have the three tiers of AAA, B-tier and "shovelware", with the budget for each being approximately an order of magnitude higher the further up the pecking order you go.

Indies are on an even lower budget than that.

Nowadays we have the stratification on consoles of AAA and indie, and the B-tier and shovelware tiers have vanished.

Was a lot of shovelware awful? Of course it was.
But if you're a huge fan of CSI, or Spongebob Squarepants, or current topical popstar, or C-lister comic book, you now don't have console games to play that you used to.
You now don't have low-pressure titles for inexperienced developers to learn their craft working on.
Studios now don't have guaranteed revenue streams from publishers like THQ to keep them in work on a Dora The Explorers Super FunTime Party or whatever while they pitch and preproduce Manshoot: the stabbening.

EDIT:
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Since we're establishing definitions, why does a publishing source disqualify someone from this label?
Click to expand...

The indie definition is a lot fuzzier in an age of crowdfunding, early access sales and self-publishing digital distribution, but a published title even at the very low end had a substantially higher budget to work to than a traditional bedroom programming one man band indie

EDIT2:
I mean, this is a huge ballpark approximation, but it would be something like this for game budgets:
AAA = $10 million
B = $1 million
C tier / shovelware = $100k
Indie = $10k
 
F

FriedConsole

Banned
Well it did give a lot developers experience and money to make good games later. But overall the industry is better without them. Who knows how many people gave up on video games after buying the literally unplayable crap that used to come out.

A.D. Skinner said:
From what I read, most people see most of the games as shovelware anyway, probably because the actual shovelware is gone...so yes I guess it is hurting as people are really not seeing premium when its there.
Click to expand...

Sub 1080p 60fps is shovelware now.

QuickSilverD said:
Indies man
Click to expand...

Indies cannot be criticized. Go play Call of Duty.
JOKE
 
M

Mael

Member
FriedConsole said:
Well it did give a lot developers experience and money to make good games later. But overall the industry is better without them. Who knows how many people gave up on video games after buying the literally unplayable crap that used to come out.
Click to expand...

Because plenty of people stopped playing after they got burned on Ljn crap in the NES era?
More likely if someone bought a shitty game, they don't hang on it, they flip it off and buy something else.
Seriously you have people who bought an expensive console for more than 200 bucks to no longer play them and shelve it because they mistakenly bought Dora the Explorer?
There's a reason there's a used market.
 
I

imBask

Banned
did anyone take a peek at Steam Greenlight lately? I would consider 90% of what's in there to be "shovelware"
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
I hope we eventually see some retail releases with a bunch of high quality indie releases. A disc humble bundle, if you will.
 
M

Mael

Member
imbask said:
or is it because it's too easy to get in with a system like that? all these terrible devs know they won't make it to the ps4
Click to expand...

Who made you the paragon of quality on gaming recently?
Why does it bother you so much that people could have fun and even spend money on stuffs you qualify as trash?
If you find ACIII downright shitty, did it bother you that much that it was the best selling AC game?

MrNyarlathotep said:
The implicit presumption there is that all devs want to be on the PS4
Click to expand...

Also true, although I'd argue that they would probably don't mind the revenue, it's not a priority if they're not planning to make the jump.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nintendo Appears To Be Winding Down Production Of Certain Switch Games
Rumor 2
90
8K
Mr Hyde replied
Game devs praise Steam as a 'democratic platform' (a bastion in our panic mode industry)
2 3
104
5K
ArtHands replied
Chinese government working on regulations to curb excessive spending on gaming.
News
35
3K
Bkdk replied
Game over? Industry suffers slowdown after decades-long winning streak — Financial Times
Business Analysis 2 3 4 5
209
16K
JohnnyTropics replied
[Game File] Some of the world's biggest gaming storefronts still don't credit who made the game
Business Analysis
27
1K
GHG replied
Top Bottom