If anyone expected more out of a FPS with no multiplayer they were nuts.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Irrational Games shutting down, 2K takes over BioShock, KL in new 15 person DD studio
- Thread starter Quentyn
- Start date
If anyone expected more out of a FPS with no multiplayer they were nuts.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Given the popularity of Bioshock I don't think Take Two will can the franchise, but expect the next one to have lots of mutiplayer and micro-transactions. If that one fails though...
I think any lose was due to the development hell the game went through honestly. I just can't believe that BI would have had that absurd of a development cost had the game been pushed out in 2 years.
As strange as it may sound this renews my hope for Agent releasing. Take Two is buckling down the hatches.
I think any lose was due to the development hell the game went through honestly. I just can't believe that BI would have had that absurd of a development cost had the game been pushed out in 2 years.
As strange as it may sound this renews my hope for Agent releasing. Take Two is buckling down the hatches.
Freedom Force didn't need a lavish and detailed 3D world, instead it had a fun and interactive one. Same with System Shock 2 or even SWAT 4. I think kickstarter is bringing us down to like one-A or maybe BBB games again.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Do really think selling 4 to 5 million can make up for nearly 6 years of dev time with a full team .
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I'd say that's more or less the Cliff's Notes of this entire thread so far
Father_Brain
Banned
...that says absolutely nothing about what Take Two's expectations for BSI were.
Levine is not obligated to make huge AAA games for the rest of his life.
I hate hipster callouts like that. You're just insulting the guy and hide it behind some weird undercutting of values. He worked on multiple big projects and is a project lead of a strategy game in development. How on earth does that make you a hipster? Should just get banned for shit like that.
The front end sales were, but the problem is the legs.
They said they expected it to easily become the best selling BioShock game and then never spoke about it again.
Doug Cruetz also doesn't work for Take-Two.
At first I didn't think Ken Levine couldive been THAT big of a sociopathic, narcissistic tool but...
Maybe? That fact that it's a "Maybe" is kinda terrifying.
I hope the laid off staff can regroup together and flourish without his leadership. When Infinite took so long to make because of do-overs, something messed up behind the scenes was going on.
Isn't Take Two in terrible shape, financially? They've survived thanks in large part to GTAV.
They haven't been independent since 2006, so nothing happened without Take 2 allowing it to happen.
I'm curious what the "expectations" were on the sales of Infinite... they had two games out already to give them a good indication of what the market was for the product. I think the game just got delayed beyond all reasonable measure and whatever impact that had on the budget caused a major problem. Nobody was bothered by the two and a half years between SWAT 4 and the original BioShock. This game wasn't even built around a new generation of hardware, which people typically point to as the source of these sorts of problems.
If the situation presented makes no sense, generally it's a sign that wasn't the actual situation.
Take-Two just finished closing two unprofitable studios, and now they're closing Irrational.
To Far Away Times
Member
This reads like the former, and if that's the case, between this and the hugely disappointing BioShock Infinite I think we can drop Levine out of the conversation for best game designers.
Well if you can find an article where Take-Two said they expected BI to sell five million units or more, I'll be happy to concede I was wrong.
From what we can tell, 4 million is not up to expectations. I think the expectations which need to be adjusted here are yours; for a AAA game in 2013 -- particularly one with a long development cycle -- 4 Million in sales is simply not sufficient.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
Well it looks like some of the employees will still have jobs. It is pretty cool that the company is supporting the devs to find jobs. Or does every game company do these job shopping things?
Stratostar
Member
Just another day in the video game industry.
Take2 has a ton of debt compared to the revenue it generates. They're definitely an acquisitions opportunity.
Not really, that's how all games are made. People don't just write a script or game plan to their game and start creating everything is done pretty much on the fly and the super important bits usually don't come together until the very end.
Because the explanation offered in his statement is spin and nothing more.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Whoa, damn. But it's weird how he's shutting it down just because he himself has switched focus; like he's taking the entire team down just because he had a change of heart. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if he does something a little more in the lines of Telltale Games, and I can definitely understand why he would choose to leave the big-scale AAA game development.
Wish them all the best and look forward to seeing what they have in store next.
Wish them all the best and look forward to seeing what they have in store next.
Man, fuck this planet
I mean, those guys have been in the game for so long and just seeing them go like this is heartbreaking, especially since their portfolio is nothing else than magnificent. Very, very saddened by this news; hope the people who get laid off will find a new home very quickly and that Ken will continue his path as a unconventional game designer
Probably not. But expecting a FPS released in 2013 with no multiplayer to do more than that was mismanagement.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I don't think it's very fair to suggest that because he wants to do something else, he shouldn't so that other people stay in a job doing the same old thing. I mean, you can say that is selfish, but you would be wrong. He has no responsibility to continue working where he does not wish too, in order to secure other peoples jobs.
That is some fucking serious weight you would put on the mans shoulders, unfairly at that.
And I say this as someone that has been made redundant for a company to save money, and lost not just my job, but my house as well.
That is some fucking serious weight you would put on the mans shoulders, unfairly at that.
And I say this as someone that has been made redundant for a company to save money, and lost not just my job, but my house as well.
Shalashaska161
Member
It's bizarre to me that the team in general is being let go. Even if Levine wanted to step down, the rest of Irrational has proven themselves more than capable of producing a great product. You'd think it would be better to keep the talent and get someone else in charge, or maybe assign people to different studios, or turn Irrational into a support studio or something before simply letting them all go.
It's hard to guess their reasoning without knowing why Infinite was delayed so much. But it's pretty scary that nowadays all it takes is one game to miss expectations before publishers are closing studios.
It's hard to guess their reasoning without knowing why Infinite was delayed so much. But it's pretty scary that nowadays all it takes is one game to miss expectations before publishers are closing studios.
Which publisher in the right mind would want to assume that debt when they could just as easily pick off the more desirable IPs in a bankruptcy auction a la THQ?
We can link you to the (already linked) FR from Take Two in the last few quarters, where Bioshock was not noted. If something is a notable success, it's typically mentioned in those FRs.
Of course, there is also simple logic; if Bioshock was imminently profitable, Irrational would not be disintegrating. If this was just Kev Levine wanting to leave, Take Two would hire a new lead for their profitable asset, and not fire 230 people.
It really highlights how AAA development has dug itself into a hole. As the audience grows you can reliably fund more expensive games, but audience growth seemingly is not keeping pace with development costs, and they can't really back down since for every person like me who looks at SMTIV and goes "works for me!" there's 10 that'd go "what the hell, Last of Us just came out I don't want to play something that looks like that." Nevermind how many only see CoD or GTA and fail to notice either even existing.
Yeah, really, just look at Infinity Ward. They HEMORRHAGED most of their staff, but as they had just developed one of the best selling games ever they were kept around even with so many of them vacating the studio.
You know your stuff element, if you say so I'll take your word on it.
njean777
Member
It is if you don't take 5 years to make one game. Aka having efficient management.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yep which is something the game industry is full of among other things .
I personally think it's for the best, especially if it means smaller budget games with less financial risk. it looks like they're still going to be great talent in the new studio he's putting together, so I wouldn't worry about any loss of quality. I do hope everyone that wasn't brought over land on their feet however.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Captain Tuttle
Member
Pays the bills man.
Exceeding (realistic) expectations could still mean it lost money.
The game cost a dickload to make, they expected it to make half a dickload, it ended up making 3/4 of a dickload
Best of luck, man.
Thank you all for your support.
Similar threads
- Locked