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Water Levels Done Right
- Thread starter n00bsauce87
- Start date
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
Rayman's water levels are the best in the genre.
Great controls, great music, and just fun to play.
Great controls, great music, and just fun to play.
Saint of Killers
Member
Wave Race 64.
Mega Man 8, Aqua Man's stage was soooo good. It was fun and slightly challenging... not to mention that relaxing music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnde3_cR09k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnde3_cR09k
Gentleman Jack
Member
You're the first person I've ever seen praise this zone.
Phreakuency
Banned
Ristar on the Genesis has my favorite water levels. The music and 8 way direction control makes the water levels much more enjoyable to navigate through than the 2D Mario and Sonic push button to stay afloat mechanic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx_iWpR-WaU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx_iWpR-WaU
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
If blitzball counts then blitzball wins.
buddha0991
Member
Everyone said all the good ones, except for Mario 64's Jolly Roger Bay, Dire Dire Docks and the Secret Aquarium.
Actually nope, somehow I missed the mentions of Mario 64, rip.
Actually nope, somehow I missed the mentions of Mario 64, rip.
Cizeta-Moroder
Banned
Come at me!...anyone?
I'm being 100% honest here, Labyrinth Zone was the best zone in the best Sonic game. Definitely a water level done right. Especially the boss part.
I came in here to post Hydrocity. Glad to see I'm not alone.
Both high tier zones. Though you can skip a lot of the underwater parts in them (from memory it's possible to do Aquatic Ruin without getting wet at all).
AdmiralMikey
Member
There's a lot of love going around for the 3D Zelda Water Levels, but what about the 2D ones? The Swamp Palace in Link Between Worlds was one of my favorites!
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Doctor Decimate
Member
Changing the water levels is still a pain in the ass. There's no good reason I should have to walk down corridors and change other water levels first to get to where I need to be; if they changed it to just a series of switches in the main room it'd be fine, but as it stands it's still obnoxious.
bigboss370
Member
loved the water levels in MGS2.
Baron Von Beans
Member
I know a lot of people hated it, but I loved the underwater fights in Monster Hunter 3U for 3DS. I never played MH Tri on the Wii, which is where they were introduced. I could understand hate for them there, but on the 3DS the 3D gave you a great sense of situational awareness, I felt. Once I got the circle pad pro for it, I was in heaven. I am very sad to see them be removed in MH4..
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Does Bubble Man's stage in Mega Man II count? It takes place largely underwater, but the only change to the game physics is that you can jump higher, often into spikes that instantly killed you so you had to mind your limits. You weren't otherwise impeded in any new ways. It strikes a nice balance of only changing one thing about how the game controls without trying to frustrate your forward progress.
great choice indeed
The music (like all the stages) is great too.
n00bsauce87
Member
There's a lot of love going around for the 3D Zelda Water Levels, but what about the 2D ones? The Swamp Palace in Link Between Worlds was one of my favorites!
This.
The swamp palace required some hard work going from level to level adjusting the water when necessary. Granted I would also be annoyed to reach one end of the corridor just to go back to the main room to adjust the water level. And having to do that at least 3 times. Now if they made so you end up getting to the second floor and platform your way to the switch in the main room to increase the water levels and punish those who fail by going back up... that could work. It'll be like going in one continuous path up.
That would be different, a water tower that just goes up. Goes again conventional ways of how to approach water level, but I think it could work.
There's a lot of love going around for the 3D Zelda Water Levels, but what about the 2D ones? The Swamp Palace in Link Between Worlds was one of my favorites!
came in here to post this
and praise Tropical Freeze's god-like underwater controls. like buttah baby.
Nocturnowl
Member
Water levels can be a great change of pace when done right, even in games that have a number of lacklustre water stages they can still hide a great one within, that's pretty much how I feel about Super Mario World which has rather ho-hum water stages for the most part yet also packs Vanilla Fortress, a fully submerged stage with the hazards home to castle and fort stages, then there's Mondo, an overworld stage with a strong current of rising and lowering water running through it.
Rayman Origins showed promise with water stages, they controlled fluidly with an easily grasped control scheme but I found the stages themselves to lack that extra bit of inspiration in design (I guess it didn't help that the later world just repackaged the existing ideas). Its follow up Legends blended Origins style of water stages with light stealth like elements and in turn led to stronger water stages and perhaps some of the better ones I've played in any game. The advantage here was that most hazards used an area of effect to try and catch the player but didn't immediately harm you if you got out of view as quick as possible leading to a bit more leeway when making a small error in movement as well as just being a kind of fun gimmick in general.
Sonic Colours Aquarium Park stages took on a different approach to other watery stages seen in the series by at last giving Sonic some semblance of swimming ability, able to "swim" through the water in a buzzsaw like fashion and then speed through using the drill wisp power up with a mix of open spaces and tunnel like mazes for layouts. They lack the tension of Mega Drive Sonic water stages but they retain the sense of speed the series is known for, you could actually take this as a bad thing depending on how you feel about the older stages but regardless it was an interesting take on Sonic's water stages and took place in a memorable oriental setting with great music.
I'd add Hydrocity Zone from Sonic 3 as well but really half the reason that one is fun is because you spend a lot of time zipping across water, down slides and pushed along by currents so the water wasn't so strong a factor, once again this was keeping up the tempo while the slower sections allowed for bubble shields to retain air.
I see the original DKC pop up a bit when it comes to good water stages but I just don't really agree, they're okay but there's nothing about the levels themselves that shine in particular, a bunch of mostly cramped coral pathways focused primarily on evasion to the sounds of Aquatic Ambiance, it's that last point that I'm sure leads to the praise as it helps give them a relaxed atmosphere.
I found as with many things in this series that DKC2 was a lot more interesting with its water stages bringing gimmicks like that of Lava Lagoon leading to a frantic swim through boiling water that must be cooled by an animal buddy first and will reheat shortly alongside shifting water levels, that said they still could be a bit better on the whole.
Really though the crown for this series goes to Tropical Freeze which seemed to be inspired by the Rayman school of swimming while retaining Retro's own sense of weighty Ape factor to the character control, you're capable of fluid movements but need to get a handle on exactly how to move Kong around, each side character can assist with a water aid of their own. Level design is perhaps a bit too heavy on water currents at points and I imagine would improve further if there were another entry. They also used oxygen which some find a bit daunting, not me as that's one of the best things about the old Sonic water stages in my book.
Taking water stages on board as a whole I think you need to focus on making movement in the water enjoyable in itself while taking advantage of the benefits that come with the freedom of being able to move all around the immediate area, I also find mixing water and ground portions together works to alleviate some of the tedium that can come with spending too much time in the wet stuff.
Fine tuning these a bit further could have gone a long way, I like them in concept, monsters that reside in the depths gain an advantage with their superior moment and it brings a sense of dread that's just so fitting as well as joy when you get them onto land like there's an interesting back and forth dynamic dependent on where the fight takes place.. The upside for the hunters being you have more options in movement which aids in evading and attacking from different angles.
Problem I found was that the lack of being able to make a big evasive move like the running dive on land was no longer doable meaning that sometimes you'd just get utterly wrecked especially in cramped areas.
I'm sort of sad to see them gone whilst also being kinda thankful, I'd love to see them take another swing at it in the future.
Rayman Origins showed promise with water stages, they controlled fluidly with an easily grasped control scheme but I found the stages themselves to lack that extra bit of inspiration in design (I guess it didn't help that the later world just repackaged the existing ideas). Its follow up Legends blended Origins style of water stages with light stealth like elements and in turn led to stronger water stages and perhaps some of the better ones I've played in any game. The advantage here was that most hazards used an area of effect to try and catch the player but didn't immediately harm you if you got out of view as quick as possible leading to a bit more leeway when making a small error in movement as well as just being a kind of fun gimmick in general.
Sonic Colours Aquarium Park stages took on a different approach to other watery stages seen in the series by at last giving Sonic some semblance of swimming ability, able to "swim" through the water in a buzzsaw like fashion and then speed through using the drill wisp power up with a mix of open spaces and tunnel like mazes for layouts. They lack the tension of Mega Drive Sonic water stages but they retain the sense of speed the series is known for, you could actually take this as a bad thing depending on how you feel about the older stages but regardless it was an interesting take on Sonic's water stages and took place in a memorable oriental setting with great music.
I'd add Hydrocity Zone from Sonic 3 as well but really half the reason that one is fun is because you spend a lot of time zipping across water, down slides and pushed along by currents so the water wasn't so strong a factor, once again this was keeping up the tempo while the slower sections allowed for bubble shields to retain air.
I see the original DKC pop up a bit when it comes to good water stages but I just don't really agree, they're okay but there's nothing about the levels themselves that shine in particular, a bunch of mostly cramped coral pathways focused primarily on evasion to the sounds of Aquatic Ambiance, it's that last point that I'm sure leads to the praise as it helps give them a relaxed atmosphere.
I found as with many things in this series that DKC2 was a lot more interesting with its water stages bringing gimmicks like that of Lava Lagoon leading to a frantic swim through boiling water that must be cooled by an animal buddy first and will reheat shortly alongside shifting water levels, that said they still could be a bit better on the whole.
Really though the crown for this series goes to Tropical Freeze which seemed to be inspired by the Rayman school of swimming while retaining Retro's own sense of weighty Ape factor to the character control, you're capable of fluid movements but need to get a handle on exactly how to move Kong around, each side character can assist with a water aid of their own. Level design is perhaps a bit too heavy on water currents at points and I imagine would improve further if there were another entry. They also used oxygen which some find a bit daunting, not me as that's one of the best things about the old Sonic water stages in my book.
Taking water stages on board as a whole I think you need to focus on making movement in the water enjoyable in itself while taking advantage of the benefits that come with the freedom of being able to move all around the immediate area, I also find mixing water and ground portions together works to alleviate some of the tedium that can come with spending too much time in the wet stuff.
Fine tuning these a bit further could have gone a long way, I like them in concept, monsters that reside in the depths gain an advantage with their superior moment and it brings a sense of dread that's just so fitting as well as joy when you get them onto land like there's an interesting back and forth dynamic dependent on where the fight takes place.. The upside for the hunters being you have more options in movement which aids in evading and attacking from different angles.
Problem I found was that the lack of being able to make a big evasive move like the running dive on land was no longer doable meaning that sometimes you'd just get utterly wrecked especially in cramped areas.
I'm sort of sad to see them gone whilst also being kinda thankful, I'd love to see them take another swing at it in the future.
Mango The Magician
Banned
I'd say my favorites are in SMG, SM64, and DKCTF. I really only enjoy water levels in platformers, I'm not a fan of them in adventure games. In games like Zelda, I think the developers get too easily carried away and the levels become aggravating, which is evident by both OOTs Water Temple and that horrid Great Bay of MM. Really I'm all for not having another water dungeons in a Zelda game for a long time, just replace them with Ice/Snow dungeons.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Agreed. On the whole, I think Origins/Legends are good, not great, but they really knocked it outta the park with the water levels.
Cyrus_Saren
Member
Donkey Kong Country and its sequels, Rayman Origins/Legends and Super Mario 64 come to mind. They all had water levels that were just fun to play.
TouchMyBox
Member
I loved the water temple in Kameo because of all the people it made really angry when it really wasn't very difficult at all.
Maybe if you're playing a port so you can get a higher framerate than the N64 version. Originally everything took entirely too long to get to due to how slow it was to swim.
I agree with the Mega Man 2 and Sonic levels.
How do the various versions of Ecco the Dolphin stack up?
...Did I play a pirated version of TP or something?
JinjoUnchained
Member
I enjoyed the water level in Spirit Tracks. Probably because it played just like the other train levels, except you drive your train under-freaking-water! Speaking of portable Zelda, the underwater sections of Oracle of Ages were done very well. Basically, you swim along the surface until you find some dark water, indicating that you can dive and explore underwater. It led to some interesting puzzles where you used underwater passages to reach above-water areas you couldn't access otherwise.
spindashing
Banned
Come at me!...anyone?
Nope. I might just have to agree with you. Hydrocity was nice and all but this is the GOAT. Great platforming.
Bo Knows GAF
Member
Waterworks level in Socom 3. One of the greatest MP maps ever and a fun SP mission as well.
Daffy Duck
Member
Tomb Raider 2 Venice was fantastic.
Shaunboy97
Member
Rayman Legends
Mr. Wonderful
Member
You know, I was going to say the water levels in SMB3, and DCK2, both of which I really enjoyed, but seeing Hydrocity zone, they don't even compare.
Spring-Loaded
Member
When it comes to "good ______ levels" I usually think of Metroid Prime. That game had your typical ice/lava/water/forest level themes, yet they all fit so well into overall gameworld. They all seemed like they could exist on the same planet.
The sunken pirate ship was such a great area. It was the same ship the player traverses in the intro level that self destructs and crashes onto the Tallon IV's surface. Everything's in different orientations from before and there are more areas you get to access this time.
The music was fantastic.
If anyone has any good Dolphin screenshots, share them pls
The sunken pirate ship was such a great area. It was the same ship the player traverses in the intro level that self destructs and crashes onto the Tallon IV's surface. Everything's in different orientations from before and there are more areas you get to access this time.
The music was fantastic.
If anyone has any good Dolphin screenshots, share them pls
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
As the horror game fanatic, I can say that old Capcom in my opinion has been the master of water levels in horror games.
Resident Evil REmake:
Dino Crisis 2
There's a segment of Dino Crisis 2, which is mostly a sort of arcade action game, that is actually rather atmospheric and tense, which is the game's underwater level. You need to go to a generator which has been-placed in an underwater facility as its due for overheating unless kept in a constant cool environment.
You take an elevator down after a puzzle and are left to explore the underwater facility. Wearing a giant scuba-suit, you control differently underwater, including you now have the ability to jump and sort of hover around, but you also move a lot slower, and your typical guns are not effective underwater so you need to find some new ones first, making you start off rather defenseless. There are two guns to be acquired for the underwear section, though.
The facility is filled with these dinosaurs that are sort of like older crocodiles that come out of crevices and holes in the environment. They make an ever-so-slight noise when swimming to you, though its very quiet, and with fixed camera angles, sometimes they'll come and take you by surprise. They are big and if you're not careful, can deliver damage quickly in a group.
You continue to go through, get a few small suit upgrades, solve puzzles, and the like. This section is more like a survival-horror game than anything previously, but also unique with the mechanics of the game and the section, with being able to jump and hover around, and that being part of the gameplay. It's a fascinating mix of action game akin to Mercenaries (with combos, losing combos if hit, points to gain), old survival-horror (with limited supplies, intimidating enemies, explorable environments with back-tracking, puzzles, and fixed-camera angles and some tensity and scares), and something new for this type of thing with the attributes of the water section.
And ultimately, as you make for the final section before the reactor core, you encounter a giant plesiosaurs underwater that has a shit ton of health and does a lot of damage, so its just best to run and try to survive and avoid as you climb your way to the generator. A tense and fun section yet again. This whole level was one of my favorite parts of Dino Crisis 2 so far.
Resident Evil REmake:
Resident Evil REmake came to mind first. The water section comes out of nowhere (hidden under the residence), and instantly throws you into a mood of uncertainty and ambience. You then enter into a rather large area with waist-high water. It is completely silent, except water-slushing noises and the splashing sounds of you runing around. But soon, sharks start swimming up from the depths.
You might hurry or try to shoot them some. Just avoid them a bit when you run about the submerged walking. But you hear some faint noise fade-in. It starts getting louder. You realize it's not just music, but really panicking music. And it's getting louder?
Why is this music playing?
And then suddenly...
It lunges out of the water and swallows you in one gulp.
Or you avoid it, but now your panicked. You rush through the water as this giant shark hunts you down. You barely escape until a door, and into another room. You climb deeper and find an area with a bunch of switches, but suddenly a shark smacks itself loudly an very visibly against the glass in the room that looks out into the sunken aquarium. You are times to solve the puzzle as sharks bash against the glass and it starts to crack.
You solve the puzzle, just in the nick of time. The shutters are lowered over the glass. The safety is unlocked so you can drain the room. And now you go out to the previously flooded ground level of the Aqua Rung facility...
Shark corpses lay around, traces of water remain and water damage. And you see the key item you need!
...Right behind the corpse of the giant-ass shark that was just hunting you.
Dino Crisis 2
There's a segment of Dino Crisis 2, which is mostly a sort of arcade action game, that is actually rather atmospheric and tense, which is the game's underwater level. You need to go to a generator which has been-placed in an underwater facility as its due for overheating unless kept in a constant cool environment.
You take an elevator down after a puzzle and are left to explore the underwater facility. Wearing a giant scuba-suit, you control differently underwater, including you now have the ability to jump and sort of hover around, but you also move a lot slower, and your typical guns are not effective underwater so you need to find some new ones first, making you start off rather defenseless. There are two guns to be acquired for the underwear section, though.
The facility is filled with these dinosaurs that are sort of like older crocodiles that come out of crevices and holes in the environment. They make an ever-so-slight noise when swimming to you, though its very quiet, and with fixed camera angles, sometimes they'll come and take you by surprise. They are big and if you're not careful, can deliver damage quickly in a group.
You continue to go through, get a few small suit upgrades, solve puzzles, and the like. This section is more like a survival-horror game than anything previously, but also unique with the mechanics of the game and the section, with being able to jump and hover around, and that being part of the gameplay. It's a fascinating mix of action game akin to Mercenaries (with combos, losing combos if hit, points to gain), old survival-horror (with limited supplies, intimidating enemies, explorable environments with back-tracking, puzzles, and fixed-camera angles and some tensity and scares), and something new for this type of thing with the attributes of the water section.
And ultimately, as you make for the final section before the reactor core, you encounter a giant plesiosaurs underwater that has a shit ton of health and does a lot of damage, so its just best to run and try to survive and avoid as you climb your way to the generator. A tense and fun section yet again. This whole level was one of my favorite parts of Dino Crisis 2 so far.
bigboss370
Member
oh shit how could i forget...
Beyond Two Souls
Beyond Two Souls
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Surprised no ones said Uncharted 3, the boat graveyard and the cruise liner, I was particularly impressed with the water sloshing about the hold and swelling up around the boat husks and platforms.
bigboss370
Member
yeah you're totally right. That level was absolutely brilliant, one of the best
IdreamofHIME
Member
My friend played this on an emulator and something was off with the settings and filters that meant the player was invisible on this part of the game. He played through the whole section without seeing the character on screen, lol.
I think the actual problem with Water Temple is it breaks the mold. All the Adult Temples become kind of looping, with you going to an offshoot and then returning to the hub, but the Water Temple requires you to backtrack to a branch at one point to get another small key. It's the only dungeon in the game for which the Compass is useful, and I think that throws people for a loop and contributes a lot to the unenjoyablility.