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[TMNT]

France + Germany alone are about half the US market size.

Not sure if serious ...

 

[theprodigy]

I would say Europe was probably higher than 50% of PS2's WW LTD

Europe did not get 75M+ PS2 sales lol

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

Right Microsoft just built CORTANA into Windows because they want to get rid of Xbox and Halo. The CEO himself just called out Cortana/Bing integration in Windows Phone as something he wanted to highlight.

If they wanted to spin off devices they would have kept the division separate instead of moving it under the Windows division. Nokia is much more likely for spin off eventually considering they own extremely costly manufacturing facilities.

With Apple moving ahead with AppleTV with Siri and PrimeSense sensor I don't see MS abandoning Xbox. Apple, Amazon are chasing Xbox right now.

Is that 5 hours watching TV?

They have a huge opportunity to profit off of this usage in the future through companion apps, services, and promotions. Not to mention better user recommendations and sales through preference tracking on a per user basis.

 

[Guevara]

Microsoft is almost certainly averaging a slight loss on each Xbox One sold lately, given the bundling and price cuts.

 

[postcyberpunk]

It made sense 20 minutes ago. Now I have no idea what I was going for.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Well if they want nuke themselves they can do that

How would that hurt them. It wont be a loss unless they still keep the kinect.

 

[Neuromancer]

This is what I'm saying, the X1 had so much going against it, it's a true champion.

You can't discount the tried and true working man's graphics of the Xbox One.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Even if that was the case you think they will keep doing that. Chances are it will be till an official price cut happens.

Probably I wonder how long the TF bundle will be available for

Europe did not get 75M+ PS2 sales lol

I was thinking of PS2's LTD until 100M to be honest

A lot of that last 55M was from smaller poorer countries

 

[ymmv]

Every time you use the few markets comment, it just sounds worse and worse. Those markets will not swing any real numbers, and IMO its just used as a sort of fanboy cushion in statements.

Yep. All of those markets are either very small (Scandinavian countries, Benelux, etc) and usually counted as Sony country or big (Russia, Japan, India, China) but are traditionally unlikely to buy MS consoles in large numbers because of the price, an unappealing games library or piracy.

 

[ascii42]

PS2 LTD in the US was just shy of 46M before it stopped being tracked in like 2010

I would say Europe was probably higher than 50% of PS2's WW LTD

That would be like 78 million. I don't think that's possible.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

IIRC

PS2 sales by region:

EU: 50 million
US: 50 million
Asia: 25 million
JP : 22 milion

EU and Asia are the only regions that I can see selling more PS2's to lead to a LTD of 155 million

 

[TheOMan]

Nonono

That is not what I meant. Godspeed.

 

[SwiftDeath]

That would be like 78 million. I don't think that's possible.

lol I worded that really poorly. In my head I was thinking of the first 100M LTD and that of that Europe probably represented just as much as the US at least so like 1/3 or so of its final LTD WW

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

How would that hurt them. It wont be a loss unless they still keep the kinect.

I'm not talking about loss which MS can fuck with loss and sold 399(or even less) with Kinect

 

[Lace]

Would have to be rest of the world sans US

Spoiler

lol

I say the higher estimates because he who should not be named tweeted a strong internal source at MS pegged WW LTD for XB1 at 4.4M - 4.55M like 2 weeks ago or so

I personally expect 4.2M - 4.4M

I think you were confused on what I meant. The current 4.2M includes other countries. If they sold 500k more then estimates which countries would you guess are picking up the difference since we have a general idea of US sales. Germany? Spain? UK?

 

[Vashetti]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

 

[Steroyd]

Was the Dreamcast an accessory for the Saturn?

Oh you.

No no, I left out Dreamcast only because I was thinking about the Big 3 companies. Sega was doomed in 2000-2001....

What year did the Gamecube and Xbox come out?

Sony didn't have "no competition", unless this is the exact same blackhole where the PS4 has "no games."

 

[Blanquito]

The NPD thread also had some discussion about the production price of the Xboxone and what effect a price drop would have on MS's earnings , so I'll just copy/paste my comment from there.

The reason that it is speculated that the XboxOne costs more than the PS4 even without Kinect (source) is because of the ESRAM and its effect on the APU (CPU+GPU) chip size.

The PS4 APU size is 348 square mm (source), compared to the XboxOne's APU size of 363 square mm (source).

Look at these scans of the APU and you can see how much space the ESRAM takes, and that's even after cutting out six of the CUs from the GPU. PS4 and XboxOne APU scans.

To follow up, I did a (very basic) search for how much it would cost per square mm to produce a chip -- note that I am no expert in this area, but it is interesting to learn about it and this should provide a road map.

From this website here, it costs anywhere from 650 to 45,000 euros per square mm. However, these are for smaller runs and obviously doesn't include long-term contracts that Sony/MS would be able to make.

The purpose was not to show what the price would be per square mm (since I doubt we'll ever know), but to show that every sqare mm does have a cost to it and the XboxOne's APU is 15 square mm larger than PS4's, thus the reasoning that the XboxOne without Kinect still costs more than PS4.

Any thoughts or insights would be nice!

 

[RoKKeR]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

At this point I honestly can't tell what's sarcasm and what isn't.

 

[ymmv]

I think you were confused on what I meant. The current 4.2M includes other countries. If they sold 500k more then estimates which countries would you guess are picking up the difference since we have a general idea of US sales. Germany? Spain? UK?

Those two countries are very unlikely saviors of Xbox One sales.

 

[SwiftDeath]

I think you were confused on what I meant. The current 4.2M includes other countries. If they sold 500k more then estimates which countries would you guess are picking up the difference since we have a general idea of US sales. Germany? Spain?

Hmm I understood what you meant. I actually am far more bearish on MS's sales in the ROTW as you can see here

But if mort is correct then the only logical place MS could have more sales is outside the US, UK would make up a decent portion but I can't explain where they would be coming from

 

[Vashetti]

At this point I honestly can't tell what's sarcasm and what isn't.

No sarcasm.

 

[EGM1966]

This "If You Ain't First, You're Last!" messaging needs to die. Both exceeded expectations for their companies, it's just that the PS4 exceeded them by a wider margin.

While the XB1 launched very well and initially looked to be exceeding expectations there is clearly too much stock sitting unsold for it to be currently exceeding expectations.

MS wouldn't build that many and retailers wouldn't buy and stock that many unless they expected to sell them - and its pretty clear that even allowing for safety stock sales are lower than expectations from the amount of stock sitting around.

This isn't doom and gloom or XB1 is doomed stuff - it's still selling at an okay clip - but there's no doubt its under-performing somewhat vs the sales expectations that saw all those units manufactured and shipped. The PS4 probably still is although it seems in US its coming into more stable supply so we'll see how long that continues.

 

[Miles X]

As far as I know it was equal:

50 million each. EU might of edged it.

PS2 was 46m in US, 56m in NA

 

[Syphon Filter]

I'm not talking about loss which MS can fuck with loss and sold 399(or even less) with Kinect

They can but they aren't trying to lose money every time. It will be a tremendous amount lost if they drop with kinect. Its better to take kinect out since no on wants it and not take a loss.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

great post!

 

[Guevara]

Only 1.2 million Xbox Ones shipped in Q1, and expected channel inventory draw down in Q2 (meaning stores have more Xbox Ones than they need) is pretty damning, I agree.

 

[Tabular]

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

They can but they aren't trying to lose money every time. It will be a tremendous amount lost if they drop with kinect. Its better to take kinect out since no on wants it and not take a loss.

Please proof "no one wants Kinect"

 

[Doug Heffernan]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

lol Wow...
It hasn't even been a year since these consoles came out and people are already saying these things.

 

[IAmRandom31]

So with the current pace of around 400K a month WW they would sell about 4.5m a year over the course of the generation. Putting them in approx. 25m by the end of the generation.

A long shot from my predicted 40-50m.

I'm sure US/UK numbers will pick up a bit once the price is dropped permanently and you have Halo on hand and such, but there is nothing this year that could boost sales a ton.

 

[RoKKeR]

No sarcasm.

Then you're delusional.

I won't disagree with you about Sony leading for the rest of the generation, (though I still think it's too early to tell) but comparing the stagnation to the WiiU is hilarious, not to mention that future support for the Xbox One is leaps and bounds ahead of the WiiU.

 

[SFenton]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

That's ridiculous.

 

[Raist]

Not sure if serious ...

Very serious. Incidentally, these two countries have a little under half the population size of the US.

I'm not sure why there's always so many people thinking that european countries markets are miniscule or something.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Oh you.



What year did the Gamecube and Xbox come out?

Sony didn't have "no competition", unless this is the exact same blackhole where the PS4 has "no games."

GameCube and Xbox came out both in November 2001 in the US....

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I always enjoy Vashetti posts.

 

[kyser73]

The NPD thread also had some discussion about the production price of the Xboxone and what effect a price drop would have on MS's earnings , so I'll just copy/paste my comment from there.





Any thoughts or insights would be nice!

You might need to do some searching, but there were a couple of tear-down threads discussing this issue during the launch period in November as well as a couple of articles from an electrical engineering title - IIRC the result was that the XBone is costlier to build even without Kinect.

 

[Maxim726X]

No sarcasm.

If you would have said the same thing at the beginning of the previous generation, you would have been wrong.

Yes, MS is behind. No, the generation has no declared winner yet.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Please proof "no one wants Kinect"

I see it all the time here and in real life. They say if it didn't have it that they will get the system.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Absolutely damning numbers.

Safe to say that after the initial rush of sales, it's stagnated like the Wii U has and will find it difficult to push further.

I think this is the rare occasion where we can determine the winner of the gen already, Sony has this in the bag.

Still think it's too early call an outright winner, but it's hard to see a scenario where MS can claw back the difference in sales without taking some major hits to their bottom line...

 

[Ninja Dom]

Can we get shipped & sold LTD of Xbox One, PS4 & Wii U displayed together for us simple folk? With dates too?

 

[Syphon Filter]

I always enjoy Vashetti posts.

how come? ; )

 

[Uno Venova]

Lavelle is so cool

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

I see it all the time here and in real life. They say if it didn't have it that they will get the system.

Nice,i hope MS keep the kinect then

 

[Fafalada]

So the Xbox One's quarterly shipment rate has fallen behind the 360's.

First Q1 for 360 was its second best in 9years, coming off a supply constrained Q4 - while it may be indicative of a trend, it's still early to be sure about it.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Very serious. Incidentally, these two countries have a little under half the population size of the US.

I'm not sure why there's always so many people thinking that european countries markets are miniscule or something.

Germany, France, and UK are huge markets for gaming. The problem comes though when talking about it from a console perspective

I think generally propensity to buy/game on a console is: UK > France > Germany

As Germany is a huge PC market. There is still a ton of money to be had in all those markets for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo if they can convince consumers to buy their products though

 

[Syphon Filter]

Still think it's too early call an outright winner, but it's hard to see a scenario where MS can claw back the difference in sales without taking some major hits to their bottom line...

In terms of overall sales it's already over. Even if MS undercut them,they arent strong globally. Even the year headstart wasn't enough and now its different with sony leading early.

 

[Blanquito]

You might need to do some searching, but there were a couple of tear-down threads discussing this issue during the launch period in November as well as a couple of articles from an electrical engineering title - IIRC the result was that the XBone is costlier to build even without Kinect.

Yeah, I believe that is the consensus (and the conclusion that I come to as well). I brought it up here again because there are some that talk of dropping the price of the Xboxone to $399 or even $349 without Kinect (to boost sales and catch up), but to think that MS would do that and take such a large hit on their bottom line is somewhat crazy -- though still possible.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Nice,i hope MS keep the kinect then

I also said real life ; )

 

[JaggedSac]

They should go balls out and sell a $300 Kinectless, discless box, a $350 Kinectless box with disc, and a $400 kinect box, and sell Kinect standalone for $150.