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Sony full year results - $1.25bn loss, PS operating loss $78m, PS sales 14.6m, 17m fc

Does Sony have a pool of funds like Nintendo that these losses come out of, or is Sony in debt?

1.046 trillion JPY ($10 billion) in Cash

0.833 trillion JPY ($8 billion) in Marketable Securities



4.205 trillion JPY ($41 billion) in Current Assets

4.784 trillion JPY ($47 billion) in Current Liabilities



15.334 trillion JPY ($150 billion) in Total Assets

12.546 trillion JPY ($123 billion) in Total Liabilities


Sony's liquidity isn't all that great.
 

Zeppeli

Banned
Holy fuck. This is unbelievably bad, my God.

How the fuck did PS post a loss? PS3 and PS4 are sold at a profit or close to it... Is it the Vita?
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Depreciation and a few asset sales. Mostly depreciation though.

Gotcha, just saw the 234bn yen depreciation. About 100bn yen in asset sales. I feel silly, totally forgot the depreciation lol :p

Thxs for the quick response!
 
Holy fuck. This is unbelievably bad, my God.

How the fuck did PS post a loss? PS3 and PS4 are sold at a profit or close to it... Is it the Vita?

Paying to launch the PS4 (marketing/advertising and probably a few other things I'm not thinking about). Plus some of the PS4 R&D would be on the books for this year, I would think.
 

Filaipus

Banned
Holy fuck. This is unbelievably bad, my God.

How the fuck did PS post a loss? PS3 and PS4 are sold at a profit or close to it... Is it the Vita?

They are not sold at a profit, the PS4 is only profitable after they sell a game. So, not bad but not good enough.


How possible would it be for them to spin-off the gaming department?
 
Isn't this due primarily to the insurance division?

No, even without financial services they have decreased their net indebtedness.

Separately, they need a new round of cost cutting. Somehow, they managed to increase SG&A by $2.7bn over the year, and there was an increase as a proportion of net sales. Sony's profitability is all messed up because they have too many people on the books doing nothing. They need to slim down, trim the fat. Starting with 10-12k cuts over the coming year is necessary.
 
Holy fuck. This is unbelievably bad, my God.

How the fuck did PS post a loss? PS3 and PS4 are sold at a profit or close to it... Is it the Vita?

It's not bad just normal from gen to gen PS4 is sold at a lost and last gen sales dying much faster .
Still all in all nothing to worry about with how things going .
 
Sony last year and current year sector performance comparison:

h4xAdsG.png

Finance division carrying the whole company on its own.
 
4.784 trillion JPY ($47 billion) in Current Liabilities
It's worth noting that 1.9 trillion yen of this is comprised of term deposits in Sony Bank. Not all of it is due within the current period, but needs to be listed as such regardless. If there's a bank run then it's not good obviously.
 

Bold One

Member
1.046 trillion JPY ($10 billion) in Cash

0.833 trillion JPY ($8 billion) in Marketable Securities



4.205 trillion JPY ($41 billion) in Current Assets

4.784 trillion JPY ($47 billion) in Current Liabilities



15.334 trillion JPY ($150 billion) in Total Assets

12.546 trillion JPY ($123 billion) in Total Liabilities


Sony's liquidity isn't all that great.

looks all right to me
 
Another positive. They made money in smartphones this year, and are looking to make more money next year. I think tighter integration of PS into their smartphones will help both divisions, lets hope they capitalise on any opportunities there.

On the other hand, 16m TV shipment forecast. What are they even thinking?!?
 

coolasj19

Why are you reading my tag instead of the title of my post?
Unbelievable. When are these guys going to finally fire Iwata?
Hehehe.
My god that's thin. Really shows how efficient these guys have to be. I wonder how much those cancelled projects cost them before they got canned. But really, going through such a extreme depreciation of their old consoles and the difficulty of supporting a new one, just keeping it that close seems impressive. Not to mention there's a lot of games that are being made but not sold. I'm interested. And honestly, SPE is doing way better than just thought it would. It had a couple of box office failures but I guess that didn't offset the successes. Obviously, now that Community is cancelled Sony's TV division will crater into losing billions of dollars a year now.
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Woah, didn't think gaming division R&D would be that steep. I was way off. But at least PS is set to make strong profits in the coming years. However the forecasted half a billion loss for Sony proper is worrisome. Or does this potentially indicate that Kaz is finally going to do the deed and spin off TVs once and for all next year? Wasn't it speculated that the only reason there wasn't a simultaneous PC and TV spin off, in the restructuring, was because the losses they would have posted for this FY would have been insane and downright panic inducing?

Hope that's the case and not just "lol we're fucked". Zomgbb, what reasons do they give, if any, for the forecast losses?
 

shink

Member
Looks like PC and TVs still bringing Sony down. Luckily they have sold off the VAIO/PC division and smartphone sales seemed to have improved.
 
Pre-Football World cup TV buying spree? ;)

Sure, they will all buy Samsung and LG...

Woah, didn't think gaming division R&D would be that steep. I was way off. But at least PS is set to make strong profits in the coming years. However the forecasted half a billion loss for Sony proper is worrisome. Or does this potentially indicate that Kaz is finally going to do the deed and spin off TVs once and for all next year? Wasn't it speculated that the only reason there wasn't a simultaneous PC and TV spin off, in the restructuring, was because the losses they would have posted for this FY would have been insane and downright panic inducing?

Hope that's the case and not just "lol we're fucked". Zomgbb, what reasons do they give, if any, for the forecast losses?

The PC division is set to lose another 80-90bn yen in the coming year with very little income from it (almost none). That wipes out their profits and then some. Other than that it is the same issues as before. Sony are still paying too much tax, their costs are still too high, and they are involved in far too many commodity markets.

They will go ever cheaper with TLC TVs lol.
Zomb what do think about the games division ?

Nothing to report really, without knowing the mix of the 17m units they expect to sell over the coming year passing any kind of judgement is tough. I have it down as 4m PS3 and 13m PS4, but it could be different. I also think 17m is a conservative estimate, I think after years of downgrading forecasts they want to give some upside throughout the year. 17m is still a decent YoY increase and a good starting base for them.

Profitability should return as they ramp up network services, that they have included SEN in the division name is a good sign.

The hardware forecast also means there is little to no chance of a PS3 price cut this year unless they expect fewer than 10m PS4 sales.

Vita = dead.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
No, even without financial services they have decreased their net indebtedness.

Separately, they need a new round of cost cutting. Somehow, they managed to increase SG&A by $2.7bn over the year, and there was an increase as a proportion of net sales. Sony's profitability is all messed up because they have too many people on the books doing nothing. They need to slim down, trim the fat. Starting with 10-12k cuts over the coming year is necessary.

Such a sad thing to see, layoffs :(

Though necessary for the company's overall health.
 

Loudninja

Member
No, even without financial services they have decreased their net indebtedness.

Separately, they need a new round of cost cutting. Somehow, they managed to increase SG&A by $2.7bn over the year, and there was an increase as a proportion of net sales. Sony's profitability is all messed up because they have too many people on the books doing nothing. They need to slim down, trim the fat. Starting with 10-12k cuts over the coming year is necessary.
I wonder where these cuts will come from?

I know they are closing 20 stores and laying off 1000 people.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775745

I am guessing the selling of the PC business would be a large chunk.

Edit: Wait I see
As a result of these major changes to Sony's PC and TV businesses, the company announced that it expects to lay off 5,000 people by the end of the fiscal year. This includes 1,500 in Japan and 3,500 overseas.
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/so...nit-and-laying-off-5-000-people/1100-6417558/
 
This seems to sum up the problem with the home console business. Even when you're doing really well the profits aren't exactly huge but the risks to get there certainly are. You're investing billions potentially to only make what seem like modest profits to a company like this.
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
And Nintendo is doomed? Don't make me laugh.
Completely irrelevant. 1) everyone recognizes that Sony as a whole has been teetering on the edge for quite some time 2) Kaz's changes also have very clear long term benefits, and represents a clear cut strategy 3) Playstation is very healthy and doesn't look like the brand is disappearing anytime soon
 
This seems to sum up the problem with the home console business. Even when you're doing really well the profits aren't exactly huge but the risks to get there certainly are. You're investing billions potentially to only make what seem like modest profits to a company like this.

The PS4 is a more important product for Sony than just gaming, it gets boxes under TVs that people interact with. The reason that Samsung and LG are going so hard into smart TV is because they have no product like the PS4 which is connected to the internet to serve consumers directly, TVs are now a conduit for other people's services rather than the profit centres they used to be, so monetising them through smart services is necessary. Smart TV has never really taken off though, those who are inclined to use advanced functionality of their TVs usually have cable or some other premium service and they are also likely to have a PS4 or XB1 as well.

Therein lies the importance of the PS4, it feeds into their media divisions and even smartphones with companion apps and off screen functionality. Once their IPTV service launches, that will increase profits not only within the game division, but also for SPE. If they do it right and bundle 6 months of IPTV with certain smartphones, it will also help their smartphones and tablets division and help differentiate their products from the myriad of competition.

The PS4 is not just about games, and also remember that the PS4 is sold at a loss, this will improve over time and once the hardware becomes profitable the division level operating profit will look a lot healthier.
 
Another positive. They made money in smartphones this year, and are looking to make more money next year. I think tighter integration of PS into their smartphones will help both divisions, lets hope they capitalise on any opportunities there.

On the other hand, 16m TV shipment forecast. What are they even thinking?!?

It's a year of mundial and Sony TVs since for 2014 are great models (with exception of W955). So some optimism is warranted.

Still they managed to reduce bleeding in TV division from 84 to 25 billions of Yens so maybe they can get it to break even point this year.
 

Longsword

Member
Wasn’t it this financial year when they sold their buildings to raise cash as well? If so, the results are actually worse than the numbers indicate. The future of Sony is financial services, it seems.

Hopefully the positive forecast is accurate, I'll see how it compares to their previous forecasts vs. realized results.
 
Portables forecast seems a bit out there as well. Unless the PSP and PSV are doing a lot better than people think in Europe/Other.

PSP/PSV will do maybe 1.5M in Japan...?
Selling like 15K a month in the US... so that's maybe 250K for the year at best with some holiday multiplier factored in?
 
Portables forecast seems a bit out there as well. Unless the PSP and PSV are doing a lot better than people think in Europe/Other.

PSP/PSV will do maybe 1.5M in Japan...?
Selling like 15K a month in the US... so that's maybe 250K for the year with some holiday multiplier factored in?

Japan alone will do 2-2,5 milions.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Portables forecast seems a bit out there as well. Unless the PSP and PSV are doing a lot better than people think in Europe/Other.

PSP/PSV will do maybe 1.5M in Japan...?
Selling like 15K a month in the US... so that's maybe 250K for the year at best with some holiday multiplier factored in?

I'd also add Smarthphones & TV's to that list :p

Optimistic figures to say the least.
 
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