Is it better now?
That hairstyle though....better give him a mullet just to be safe.
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Far Cry 4's art is racist and the antagonist is (potentially) gay
- Thread starter KillerIsJed
- Start date
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That hairstyle though....better give him a mullet just to be safe.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Best possible solution: Cut the guy's head out, replace it with a mirror. Now it's not even not racist/homophobic anymore but also has a deep meaning and is art.
LordBaztion
Member
When I saw the cover I thought, the antagonist could be gay, then I thought, this looks racists. The idea that those subjects could be used in the game is what interest me the most from it, specially if it follows the breed of the two previous games. I won't judge a game for its cover, I will from its content. If the game portraits an inmature image of sexuality and racism I will be among those who curse the game. For now I'm expectant for the game.
Readingaid
Neo Member
We literally know nothing about this dude.
I dont care if he's guy, straight or tramsgemder, who cares as long as his character is cool.
You don't need a motive to be gay nor does it effect a personality. People who are camp and stylish normally touted as "typical gays" don't have those traits because they are gay. That's just how they are.
This is sensationalism at its finest.
I'm sure plenty of gay people will see this guy and think "thank god he's not German/Russian/British/Arabic" maybe there will actually be another interesting character just like Vaz was.
I dont care if he's guy, straight or tramsgemder, who cares as long as his character is cool.
You don't need a motive to be gay nor does it effect a personality. People who are camp and stylish normally touted as "typical gays" don't have those traits because they are gay. That's just how they are.
This is sensationalism at its finest.
I'm sure plenty of gay people will see this guy and think "thank god he's not German/Russian/British/Arabic" maybe there will actually be another interesting character just like Vaz was.
Well said.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
I love when people say this because it shows how fucking stupid they are.
Zomba13
Member
A gay-racist-dictator could look like this ---> *Mirror*
Well, it sure does seem to be becoming more mainstream now. As in, picked up by major websites, news outlets and such. Instead of just being the rants of random internet strangers.
OrlanisWorks
Banned
I'm gonna need a greater synopsis of this ordeal and more information the game itself to figure out what the fuck is going on this thread (and in the game, of course).
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Needs scars to be honest. Must be more manly, or I'll be offended.Is it better now?
Goldenroad
Member
Isn't it more homophobic to say that no gay people are evil than it is to say that a gay person, or character, could be evil?
CartridgeBlower
Member
Jimmy likes Elaine. Jimmy wants to ask Elaine out.
BRocknRolla
Member
There's every possibility this game will be racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and culturally insensitive. There was plenty wrong with the last game.
However, this piece of cover art makes none of that clear, and in fact requires someone to make generalizations about such categories to even come to those conclusions. Check your own preconceptions before tossing around accusations.
However, this piece of cover art makes none of that clear, and in fact requires someone to make generalizations about such categories to even come to those conclusions. Check your own preconceptions before tossing around accusations.
NoPiece
Member
The uproar is stupid because the message it unintentionally sends is that publishers should just be safe, avoid characters of color, avoid controversial subjects. Never portray the third world.
scoobidoo112
Member
KillerIsJed
Member
Some stereotypes of gay men are: Fashionable / Style (check), limp wrist (check), and the color pink (check), which at least in America, is often considered an effeminate color.
My issue is if this character is gay, thus far he is portrayed as a gay stereotype in this piece of art, and that alone is problematic. Let alone if he is the whole "gay people are bad guys or punchlines" trope.
So where am I being a hypocrite or judgemental here?
Seems like art imitating life (other than the potential gay bad guy trope that I don't really see existing in the world.)
If the bad guys are the one's doing the racist stuff, how is the game/cover itself racist? It's a reference to an all too common happening in history.. white man takes over native lands violently.
Is a picture of a slave owner whipping a slave racist?
If the bad guys are the one's doing the racist stuff, how is the game/cover itself racist? It's a reference to an all too common happening in history.. white man takes over native lands violently.
Is a picture of a slave owner whipping a slave racist?
(So remember that post above where I said it's not a good idea to discuss based on assumptions? Yeah, well, unfortunately, that's easier said than done sometimes. So here it goes. Lots of assumptions which could all turn out to not be true.)
You didn't really get the point of the OP. The problem is that "we are not going to see gay protagonists in AAA games for quite some time" but, apparently, we'll see lots of gay villains. I agree that gay characters should not purely be good or neutral characters. Not only would that be boring but it would also be a form of positive discrimination and not at all realistic (as your sexual orientation does not have anything to do with how much of an arsehole or psychopath you are). However, gay characters should not purely be bad or neutral characters, either, and when we see a AAA game whose main villain is gay and then hear the writer who's responsible for that say there won't be gay protagonists in AAA games for quite some time (I'm just gonna go with the assumption that the villain really is gay, which we do not know yet), well, I can see how some people could think of that as problematic, considering the protagonist in AAA games is traditionally the great hero who saves the day. Now, if the gay antagonist was portrayed realistically, there'd be a big fat chance that this would not be much of an issue as the majority of gay men (at least from my personal experience - I haven't conducted studies on the matter) don't exactly make their sexual orientation as obvious as the stereotypical gay man which the media often likes to resort to. So his orientation would never even be a big deal in the game, might not even come up at all throughout the story. However, judging by th box art, if that character really is gay and not just a flamboyant straight guy (Yes, there are flamboyant straight guys, just like there are effeminate straight guys, etc.), then it seems like they're going to go with a rather stereotypical portrayal of a gay character, which means his orientation is going to be extremely obvious and be referenced rather often. And that obviously leads to problems when you've got the stereotypical straight can-do-no-wrong macho hero fighting against the evil stereotypical flamboyant gay villain. If you viewed this work in a vacuum it would not be a problem but in the social and media context of today it can be considered one.
So yeah, again: almost all of that is based on assumptions and I'm not saying this character is going to be gay or is going to be stereotypical. I'm just trying to explain why it can be considered problematic if he is.
You didn't really get the point of the OP. The problem is that "we are not going to see gay protagonists in AAA games for quite some time" but, apparently, we'll see lots of gay villains. I agree that gay characters should not purely be good or neutral characters. Not only would that be boring but it would also be a form of positive discrimination and not at all realistic (as your sexual orientation does not have anything to do with how much of an arsehole or psychopath you are). However, gay characters should not purely be bad or neutral characters, either, and when we see a AAA game whose main villain is gay and then hear the writer who's responsible for that say there won't be gay protagonists in AAA games for quite some time (I'm just gonna go with the assumption that the villain really is gay, which we do not know yet), well, I can see how some people could think of that as problematic, considering the protagonist in AAA games is traditionally the great hero who saves the day. Now, if the gay antagonist was portrayed realistically, there'd be a big fat chance that this would not be much of an issue as the majority of gay men (at least from my personal experience - I haven't conducted studies on the matter) don't exactly make their sexual orientation as obvious as the stereotypical gay man which the media often likes to resort to. So his orientation would never even be a big deal in the game, might not even come up at all throughout the story. However, judging by th box art, if that character really is gay and not just a flamboyant straight guy (Yes, there are flamboyant straight guys, just like there are effeminate straight guys, etc.), then it seems like they're going to go with a rather stereotypical portrayal of a gay character, which means his orientation is going to be extremely obvious and be referenced rather often. And that obviously leads to problems when you've got the stereotypical straight can-do-no-wrong macho hero fighting against the evil stereotypical flamboyant gay villain. If you viewed this work in a vacuum it would not be a problem but in the social and media context of today it can be considered one.
So yeah, again: almost all of that is based on assumptions and I'm not saying this character is going to be gay or is going to be stereotypical. I'm just trying to explain why it can be considered problematic if he is.
Today I learned:
Can we add racist icons for every race onto this? I want the game cover to be as tolerant as possible. Someone can do tacos, someone else can do watermelons, and then we need someone else in the thread to add some antisemitism, Irish discrimination, some gold chains and baggy clothing.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Mr.Monitor
Member
My thoughts exactly.
you either don't get it or are a master of deflection.
and wtf is with referring to yourself in the third person and as OP? creepy getting creepier.
If this gets any traction, they will. They never ever frame it as cutting or altering or removing content because then that would bring up the dreaded c-word. But the implication is absolutely there. When someone chooses not to buy a game or their purchasing decision is predicated upon a change being made -- they are absolutely forcing their will. And say Ubisoft does change something, then they'll play the "well, they are the creators, let them change it or not card" as if "you racist, homophobes!" is as powerful a call for change as "leave it."
That's actually your camp's problem. The game does not exist yet. No member of this forum has played it. This is not criticism because there is no artifact to criticize. There is no context because the argument is inferring from a box art (which are noted for how narrow and lacking nuance they are) the details and actions of a character. This is a game of how offended will I be today.
We don't know how the character behaves at all. For all we know he might be a hardass straight dude who dresses flamboyantly. I'd say assuming he's gay just because of his style is just reinforcing gay stereotypes.
You keep saying that he has a limp wrist, but all I see is one resting on the guys head and one resting on his chin.
I don't know where the fuck you're getting the limp wrist thing from. Dudes got his hand on a guys head and stroking his chin with the other. You're seeing what you want to see.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Don't be racist, man.
OP talking about himself in the third person?
He's being portrayed as being gay or as being full of fucking swag?
Where's the limp wrist? Straight men can't be stylish? And I see it more as purple than pink, and purple is fucking regal.
Perfect Blue
Banned
If OP is correct and this dude is gay, what's the problem? I've always wanted to see a badass gay villain in gaming and this guy looks to fit the bill judging purely from the cover. I don't agree with him being a stereotype since good dress sense isn't just reserved for gays and a lot of male models rock that style of haircut.
thehypocrite
Member
I hate the internet, I have no words for the OP, I don't want to offend you but I can't understand your position.
The Colbert thing a few month back had that one crazy lady on twitter saying that over and over and I thought she was a lone nut job dehumanizing her "enemies". Turns out the context was an author who re-appropriated the term racism to mean something other than the definition in order to further her own cause. It's like saying you can't "murder" someone because you redefined the word murder to mean mail fraud or something. The whole thought process is a rabbit hole.
DarkJedi24
Member
Ubisoft has to be loving this. And what's wrong if the villian ends up being gay? For all we know pink suit might be the player's character. Shouldn't we save all of this "controversy" for a purposeful venue and talk about it rationally once we have facts. This is just turning into boy who cried wolf. When there is an actual issue in this realmof discussion no one will listen.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I have a problem with the villain being a white dude. Why are white dudes always the bad guy?
Seriously though my first thought was they got Saints Row in my Far Cry.
Seriously though my first thought was they got Saints Row in my Far Cry.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
You could've told me this was the cover of the next SR game, and I would've believed you.
SlickShoes
Member
The main thing that bothers me about the box art is that it's a white man controlling a native of the area. It's a bit insensitive with the 16 sherpas being killed on Everest only a few weeks ago. The only reason they are climbing the mountain is to earn money from the western expeditions in the area.
Of course maybe you play as the sherpa and not as another dudebro character, that would be a step in the right direction.
Of course maybe you play as the sherpa and not as another dudebro character, that would be a step in the right direction.
Omnii-chan
Member
I think you are looking way too far into it. Do you really think Ubi would release this if they thought it's intention was to be racist? Why would they risk the media suicide and bad word spreading of the brand and company?
The guy is just another Vaas. Crazy. His style doesn't equal his sexuality. He's probably just rich, lording over a private army and has a huge ego.
Also, are you sure the guy he is tormenting is a native? He looks like a soldier or one of his PMC's to me and like Vaas; treats people the way he wants regardless of who they are.
The guy is just another Vaas. Crazy. His style doesn't equal his sexuality. He's probably just rich, lording over a private army and has a huge ego.
Also, are you sure the guy he is tormenting is a native? He looks like a soldier or one of his PMC's to me and like Vaas; treats people the way he wants regardless of who they are.
Gamesadict
Member
Yeah, that Veerender Jubbal guy seems to be doing this all only for the attention, just read his twitter. It's simply incredible.
I'm out.
I'm out.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
This is what I dont like about gay people who stress over everything.
ITS A SEXUAL ORIENTATION !!!!!!
wait, let me explain it better...
ITS THE WAY YOU LIKE TO HAVE SEX !!!!
ITS NOT PERSONALITY, ITS NOT A STYLE OR A HAIRCUT, ITS NOT HOW YOU TALK AND WALK !!!!!
For fucks sake, "if done right" ?!?!?!?!! ITS A PERSONALITY OF A CHARACTER, BEING THE CHARACTER GAY OR NOT, CHANGES NOTHING !!!
Do you guys really get offended on this ?! Just cuz they make a character who looks slightly more feminine ? If all you want is equal rights, then Shut it already !
ITS A SEXUAL ORIENTATION !!!!!!
wait, let me explain it better...
ITS THE WAY YOU LIKE TO HAVE SEX !!!!
ITS NOT PERSONALITY, ITS NOT A STYLE OR A HAIRCUT, ITS NOT HOW YOU TALK AND WALK !!!!!
For fucks sake, "if done right" ?!?!?!?!! ITS A PERSONALITY OF A CHARACTER, BEING THE CHARACTER GAY OR NOT, CHANGES NOTHING !!!
Do you guys really get offended on this ?! Just cuz they make a character who looks slightly more feminine ? If all you want is equal rights, then Shut it already !
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Masquerader
Member
I was with you up until the last line~ Trust me, few are offended~!
Well shit, now I want the next Saint's Row game to be an Uncharted parody set in the Himalayas.
weralacroix
Neo Member
The thing is, these stereotypes do exist.
There are people who fit in these categories.
So, you are basically saying that you don't like these people, that they don't have the right to be represented in a game.
You are discriminating against them?
The worst thing is that these stupid reactions are actually hurting the chance of more people from other races being in important roles in video games and the chance of tackling serious issues in video games because creators are scared of the reaction.
MHWilliams
Member
The image evokes a strong colonialism vibe, that's not necessarily racist, but Far Cry 3 already mined the white savior idea in an exceedingly poor manner, so there's not a lot of hope that the sequel will do it better.
The idea is that this is probably the villain, but the image doesn't particularly frame him in a negative manner. In fact, it's rather powerful and enticing, recalling artwork for Saints Row The Third and Saints Row IV. Probably because people enjoyed Vaas so much in the last title.
On the homosexuality part, I don't have enough information to hazard a guess in that direction.
And vice versa: just because you're not offend doesn't mean it isn't offensive. That's such a useless statement, akin to "It is what it is."
I'm not offended particularly, but the image points to possibility of something in the vein of its predecessor, Far Cry 3, which was a fun game that totally handled important themes in a poor manner. I'd prefer not to have more of the same.
The idea is that this is probably the villain, but the image doesn't particularly frame him in a negative manner. In fact, it's rather powerful and enticing, recalling artwork for Saints Row The Third and Saints Row IV. Probably because people enjoyed Vaas so much in the last title.
On the homosexuality part, I don't have enough information to hazard a guess in that direction.
And vice versa: just because you're not offend doesn't mean it isn't offensive. That's such a useless statement, akin to "It is what it is."
I'm not offended particularly, but the image points to possibility of something in the vein of its predecessor, Far Cry 3, which was a fun game that totally handled important themes in a poor manner. I'd prefer not to have more of the same.
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