Although I wouldn't take it that far, it's nice to see a dev have enough confidence in their vision for a game to go through with the risks this creates.
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Destiny's raids will not support online matchmaking with random players.
- Thread starter sjay1994
- Start date
Although I wouldn't take it that far, it's nice to see a dev have enough confidence in their vision for a game to go through with the risks this creates.
ABSOLUTELY...this is such a "social" game...yet if i hop into a crucible match after work because im bored and none of my friends are on i cant even TALK to the other people playing because they are not in my fireteam...
oh yeah! talk about a "social experience!"
Spoken like a true newcomer to this type of content.
spoken like a complete asshat...
please...i IMPLORE you to give me a single reason how including matchmaking would take away from YOUR experience?
It has nothing to do with that. The content was made for communication/ cooperation to the point of MM being utterly useless.
Answer this; Tell me the difference between not making it even into the Vault vs not doing the Raid at all.
It Urk and his pre-made team 45 minutes(IIRC) to get into the Vault. You're telling me people are going to be fine wasting 1.5-2 whole hours w/o even making it into a Vault?
If it's as hard as Bungie claims it is, the same mechanics apply. Sorry.
Matchmaking is part of the design. Matchmaking ties directly with the content. If matchmaking is a poor match for the content, it creates a poor experience for the player -- it's a bad design. Apparently Bungie thinks matchmaking is a poor match for the content. I trust them to make decisions about their game more than I trust you, sorry.
No, it's not. Why can't you just accept that some content isn't designed for your group of 4 (or even 4 friends and 2 ringers)? Why should all games be bound to the limitation of your particular situation? If a developer thinks they can create an awesome experience that depends on there being 6 well prepared, well rehearsed with several hours on their hands, I'd like for them to be able to explore that without compromise.
It's their vision -- let them realize it.
They'll probably be too busy wasting 1.5-2 hours just looking for 5 other people to play with just to even starting the raid.
who does it hurt to give people the chance to a least participate? nobody at all...maybe they try it once, hate it and never play again...maybe they try it a few times, get frustrated and then give up...MAYBE they try it, and love it and use it as motivation...
if you dont include MM at all....then NONE of those above situations happen...because they never get to play it in the first place...
how does including MM take away from that?...it doesnt at all...if you have a pre-made fireteam of 6 that you have meticulously created through CIA level background checks and DNA samples to insure youre all bone marrow matches...you go on and enjoy the content exactly as you describe it...skipping the matchmaking process altogether...
but for the rest of us peasants we have an opportunity to give it a go even if my friends kid got sick and he had to bail from the fireteam...
I don't think that people are understanding this very salient point. Reaching the level cap for regular leveling in no way means that anyone is ready to raid. There is an entire game dedicated to how anyone would want to play and various play styles. And then there is the hardest of the hardcore of GROUP activity that by its very definition would separate those that want it the most, from those that don't.
The only prerequisite is that players are prepared, and preparation requires working out social issues (being comfortable enough to communicate, handling your assignments) so that everyone is useful, and not a detriment to the teams goals.
And anyone that is saying that if it's set up to be this obtuse, then it's a failure really are missing the point.
PvP (as an example of another possible point of contention) is going to be for some, not all.
There undoubtedly will be play lists that are essentially group interaction critical. And there will be clans that mop the floor with everyone else, and the randoms aren't going to like it.
But the content isn't locked for anyone. it's just better for all if there is player initiated organization.
The goal by my estimation is to gather those that are willing run the gambit.
There is a persistence beyond just hopping in and shooting shit for a while that needs to be bridged it seems.
That all said, there should be more communication options available. Bottom line.
I'm sure its going to be that hard to find people on a site where we had two OTs for a Beta in a week.
They already have options. They're called Strikes and those weekly/daily challenges they talked about and all the other content. Raids are an option for people who can get a group of 6 dedicated players to practice on a regular basis.
Maybe the raid content isn't intended for the average group of gaming friends. That's fine. Neither are a lot of other gaming experiences in other games. If everything catered to the lowest common denominator, we'd have even less diversity in the types of games available. WoW and other MMOs had content only viable for 40+ people (I don't think you understand the kind of teamwork and coordination required for these things -- it's on a different level than console stuff). Not everybody was able to take advantage of that, including me (I don't have the time to dedicated to that sort of thing), but I never once demanded they cater everything to me because I don't have entitled gamer syndrome.
If you'd read the thread, you'd have already answered your question. But you have no intention of trying to understand the other side of the argument.
Never said it would so it seems you're stretching there with that strawman. My point is that it isn't exactly tough to get 6 people together on a consistent basis for an online game. To suggest that it would be mighty uncommon says to me that you've never raided serious content in an MMO before. It isn't uncommon provided there's methods within the game or without to develop and support a guild or clan. Interestingly, Bungie has provided this, and on a device that we all carry around every day.
I used to raid with 10 other people on a consistent basis for years. Even gathering 25 folks together was no sweat. If you don't have the group or the time to devote to this, then raiding isn't for you. If you think adding matchmaking will fix that then you've completely misunderstood what this type of content is like.
Full disclosure, though: my irrational fear is that they will cave to this ridiculous misinformed demand only to set a precedent that then leads them to cave on the difficulty. That, my friend, is where it affects me.
asking for MM has nothing to do with entitled gamer syndrome...the problem with the approach youre talking about is that the average gamer pays the bills in console land...
my point is WHO CARES if you think it wont "fix" the problem...at least if its THERE then everyone can give it a shot..
MM will not negatively impact the experience for the "hardcore raiders" in any way...but it will give others the opportunity to at least participate and decide for themselves if raiding is something they like...
There could (should) be a mic-only option on MM (perhaps the only option). Communication is still there. And who's to say that everyone will actually speak even in pre-made groups? We don't know how relevant communication actually is. But even if it was 100% crucial, every gaming system comes with a mic.
And we can't assume the raid is that hard. Sharing knowledge is what empowers us, and Youtube is a thing. After 1 day you'll see the best strategies, exploits and weaknesses of each segment and boss. I'm not saying Bungie is lying about Raid difficulty, but the internet makes things magicaly easier through tips and tricks. It was mentioned before that it's best to trust devs with a grain of salt before launch.
Maxing out glimmer is the easiest thing to do even in the first explorable area of the game, did bungie intend people to farm it this way? If they did why not balance prices around this method? Perhaps they didn't expect players to earn money this quickly, just as they won't expect smart people to find different, easier ways to defeat raids.
I'm going on and on. My point is, Normal difficulty Raiding might be doable with randoms (most of us WILL play as randoms anyway). The two arguments against MM aren't that solid imo
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
From the videos/info for Raids released it truly is END GAME content
There's so much you'll have to do before to reach this point, it will be awhile till people give it that "ol' college try"
Hitting 20 just doesn't finish your game, it's considered a milestone, but it's just that
You are almost hit with a reset button now, cause you have to up your stats to certain thresholds to even be able to deal with the content
Matchmaking is in place till you hit level 28, you have to do the higher tier strikes to even get loot and then re-farm said strikes to become formidable for the next tier
By that time, if you can't scurry up 5 other people that you have been adventures on with, then the Raid unfortunately will be your downfall
Matchmaking is there for every other mode, they want the Raid to be a special content, where you have to go out of your way to become a static of 6
If you can grind your ass to reach Raid level status, then you should have a plethora of like-minded individuals you can group up with to conquer said content
I wouldn't be surprised down the line, when other Raids kick in or added, the original gets pushed into Matchmaking and adjusted for said players
At the moment they are borrowing the element from MMO Raids and asking you to go find 5 other people you can trust and try to win
ironically if those games you're referencing would have had MM you would have been able to take part in those raids without having to go through the hassle of manually doing it your self.
hmmm.
No, I'd get matched up with a bunch of under-equipped, unrehearsed randoms and we'd fail to complete the raid and then we'd think the content is broken because nobody can ever beat it when we're doing what we're supposed to (get matched using matchmaking) and then Blizzard would be forced to dumb the content down and then... wait that's literally already what happened with WoW why the fuck are we still arguing about this?
You guys are seriously ignorant of what traditional raids required. WoW, the most popular MMO with millions of people playing -- a new raid would come out and it'd take the top guilds weeks before they could beat it. The top guilds -- people who play the game like 8+ hours a day. Like, they treat that game like a job. The amount of teamwork it required, the amount of preparation and rehearsal -- it's on a totally different level.
The content wasn't for me (I can't dedicate that sort of time investment into a game). But I'm glad it was there because I think that's neat that games can do that.
Bungie seems to be trying to capture a little of that. It's not going to be as intense as WoW stuff, but according to Bungie it's not going to be something you can do if you have 4 friends and find a couple randoms. Appreciate the variety.
I can see the elitist stinkwaves rising off of the topic, so I'll see my way out now. As someone who's been a serious raider for well over a decade across several MMOs, I find it revolting to seeing that kind of attitude already in this game and it's not even out yet. Can't even stick your necks out for these fellas. Gotta be all about you.
You also would have promptly failed miserably because the content was always tuned for coordination and the entire system urged player's to be accountable to each other for their performance. None of that exists with MM.
Hmm.
I wouldn't bet against matchmaking being added to raiding at some point after launch - probably not all that long either. People talking down to the 'lowest common denominator' should probably keep that in mind.
That said, I'm a little nervous of the way this "end game" keeps sounding more and more like the parts I didn't like of past MMOs that I've played. Setting up rotations, needing to get a set group for hours of play, faction rep/currency grinding, etc... I'm hoping this doesn't get to the point where you need to min/max and follow the same strategy everyone does or be stuck failing over and over.
That said, I'm a little nervous of the way this "end game" keeps sounding more and more like the parts I didn't like of past MMOs that I've played. Setting up rotations, needing to get a set group for hours of play, faction rep/currency grinding, etc... I'm hoping this doesn't get to the point where you need to min/max and follow the same strategy everyone does or be stuck failing over and over.
You are so off base here that I think you're intentionally misrepresenting this discussion to try and make a point. It had nothing to do with elitism. MM solved the problem of casual gamers being unable to experience high end content in WoW but in so doing it fundamentally altered the raiding community in a way that is overwhelming considered to have been very bad. Is it too much for people to see how these examples went and hope history doesn't repeat here?
And still, no one is going to hear that step one: the time it takes to prepare a group, and eq up for a raid is the key.
When everyone is knocking on that door and it wipes the floor with them the cries of "too hard" is all that will be heard.
How many games have gone through this, with strict MMO crowds none the less, and have had the same problems?
So many memes coming to mind ..."One does not simply walk into..." Ye Shall not pass" is step one.
" You tell em. Tell em I'm coming!! And hells coming with me!!!" is the level that people need to be on to raid.
BUT THIS ISNT WoW!!!
there have been over what, 100million players in WoW??...and on consoles something like CoD sells 20-30 million copies...
Destiny MIGHT sell those kinds of numbers TOTAL...but certainly not per platform...there wont even be 10 million PS4's in houses by the time this game launches....and we all know that at least around launch that the majority of people who buy this game will be buying it because its "from the studio that brought you Halo" and the "Publisher that brought you Call of Duty" and will barely touch anything outside of the Crucible...
the community simply wont be there to compare this game to WoW...
Jest Chillin
Member
So now you're talking iLvl only.. when originally you said..
That will never be instant because it has to check confirm all of these stats with people online currently that are not engaged in an activity at that specific moment in time. And it needs to do that for every. single. person or persons. that's looking queued for Raids.
This is why you'd add people to your friends list that you play well with. You know.. like people do in MMO's currently.
This is exactly what Bungie.net was redesigned to facilitate. Players don't need a specific forum like GAF when Bungie's entire website is dedicated to it.
Again.. your Gear Score argument is not what you originally presented at all. And it doesn't matter how fast a computer is at math, the search algorithm would have to check confirm all of those things with people who are online and available. It's not nearly as quick as you think.
Is it really that difficult a task to add friends? Because people do it all the time in every MP game imaginable.
Look, I understand that matchmaking is quick and easy. It's super convenient because you don't have to do anything, talk to anyone, or make any effort at all. Join a queue and wait for the game to populate itself. That's not conducive to consisten teamwork and unifed goals. Which is what a Raid is designed to facilitate.
Bungie.net and the Bungie mobile apps are being pushed super hard for a reason.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Have you played any new recent MMO's lately
A lot of stuff is always fractured and catered to different type of players
The casuals get the basic stuff and are taught how to become core players
Core players have matchmaking at their disposal, but are told if you want to reach the hardcore tier, time and effort will be need to put in
Hardcore players are the top 5-10% population on a server, they digest content very quickly, will try to decipher all aspects of the game to it's simplest form and create formulas to rate each other off it
Most of the end game content is gated and request HC people find other HC people to combat said content, cause the dev knows, the other 2 types create frustration or request nerfs off the bat due to content being way harder than anything they faced
Also adding in MM to the HC part of the content really doesn't help any of the participants
A lot of players fall into these 3 categories
Some climb from Casual to HC but also HC players get burnt and drop to Casual levels
Almost every MMO end game-wise has had a team-up feature which they give you the option of picking players you want to play and do content with
Once higher new versions of Raids come out, the old content is given the nerf hammer to it and allowed for the mass players to enjoy, which most of the time now includes random matchmaking
We have no physical evidence to go off of that would suggest raids will be a formidable.
its just a ridiculous mindset: "Let's never try something because it is deemed too hard by someone else."
#murica
Yeah, it's never a good idea to open up content to the other 95% of your player base. Should have stuck to no raid matchmaking so those precious elitist can see cool content while everyone else gets to read about it and watch it on youtube.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
WTF is wrong with this company & Matchmaking?
It's like they have a aversion to it.
It's like they have a aversion to it.
Jest Chillin
Member
The lack of evidence is not evidence in and of itself. You, likewise, have no evidence that the content is a cakewalk.
Given that standoff, I'd further trust the word of the devs on difficulty level than I would someone who has absolutely no idea what is in store within the Raid.
Further than that.. lack of matchmaking =/= not trying something. It just means that people don't get automatically matched up to other random people. Bungie wants you to reach out and make connections and play with other people. Learn each other's playstyles. Coordinate your builds. Help each other gear up and then try to tackle the Raid.
you dont even have to go that far...IF the raiding is as hard as Bungie, or some of the people in this thread want everyone to believe...then IT DOESNT MATTER!...because on the elite of the elite will be successful anyway...
the way its been described to me in this thread is, if i have a group of 4 (including myself) and we pick up a group of 2...or 2 randoms...through MM...then we have ABSOLUTELY no shot of completing the raid, or being even remotely successful...
so their precious elite loot is still protected by the difficulty of the raid, wether MM exists or not...
so much so, that they made it impossible to talk to the other people in the game unless they are ALREADY in your fireteam....
woops!
I should also say that anyone using old-WoW as a basis for their argument on why there should be no raid matchmaking should probably realize that that series eventually added it in. There's a reason they did that. And it's basically the same reasoning that's being argued here.
To me, it makes no sense in this game and trying to make a comparison to WoW is a bit silly.
1. WoW had a built in guild system which made coordinating who does what, and when, much easier. Yes, Destiny has a similar clan system, but the big difference between the two is in ease of communication. I'm not even sure that you can easily communicate between clan members - whereas in WoW communication is as simple as typing in a command.
2. This game isn't WoW. Not only that but if Bungie has gone on record saying that they are NOT an MMO, then they've also done a poor job in designing their game. Because this design is completely that of an MMO. So, which is it Bungie?
3. The idea of finding five people to do the content might not be that difficult, but it's made much more so by the anti-social nature of the game. Most people are going to treat this like any other console FPS where talking is often more annoying than it is fun. Not only that but the game doesn't really do a lot to promote situations that require that kind of coordination.
4. Even with the difficult raids in WoW, that content would be conquered rather easily by the top guilds. Then, once strategies trickled down and become more common knowledge, it became a lot easier. Hell, in my own guild, which was fairly casual, we'd have a core of about 10 people in a group of 40 that had any idea as to what they were doing. The other 30 were a random hodgepodge of raiders, family, or friends, or people from other smaller guilds - and we still had success in the content. We obviously weren't breaking any speed running records, but it was there.
5. Matchmaking being in the game has no effect on people that do group up. None at all. If it's so hard to do this content then matchmaking will fail a lot to begin with until people realize what has to be done. The elite of the elite, during that time, will be stocked full of their gear that can make themselves feel better about themselves. Either way, there's really no effect on things as are.
6. How many older people have six friends, all into the same game, all available at the same time, that they can count on to be skilled enough to get through difficult content? Thus if the system implicitly requires you to hit up forums and coordinate with random people, what you're doing is little better than what you're actually going to get out of matchmaking.
7. In Bungie's own interviews they talk about the risk they are taking with this approach. They're aware that what they're doing isn't going to be well received. It won't take them long to back off from it.
8. If matchmaking is good enough for Strikes? Why include it at all for them, too? Why not make really hard three man strikes? Why match-make for some things but then not allow it for others? They already know the benefits of mm systems, so why ignore them for end level content?
These are just some of the reasons that I can think of as to why they should have it. Not having it severely dampens my excitement for the game.
To me, it makes no sense in this game and trying to make a comparison to WoW is a bit silly.
1. WoW had a built in guild system which made coordinating who does what, and when, much easier. Yes, Destiny has a similar clan system, but the big difference between the two is in ease of communication. I'm not even sure that you can easily communicate between clan members - whereas in WoW communication is as simple as typing in a command.
2. This game isn't WoW. Not only that but if Bungie has gone on record saying that they are NOT an MMO, then they've also done a poor job in designing their game. Because this design is completely that of an MMO. So, which is it Bungie?
3. The idea of finding five people to do the content might not be that difficult, but it's made much more so by the anti-social nature of the game. Most people are going to treat this like any other console FPS where talking is often more annoying than it is fun. Not only that but the game doesn't really do a lot to promote situations that require that kind of coordination.
4. Even with the difficult raids in WoW, that content would be conquered rather easily by the top guilds. Then, once strategies trickled down and become more common knowledge, it became a lot easier. Hell, in my own guild, which was fairly casual, we'd have a core of about 10 people in a group of 40 that had any idea as to what they were doing. The other 30 were a random hodgepodge of raiders, family, or friends, or people from other smaller guilds - and we still had success in the content. We obviously weren't breaking any speed running records, but it was there.
5. Matchmaking being in the game has no effect on people that do group up. None at all. If it's so hard to do this content then matchmaking will fail a lot to begin with until people realize what has to be done. The elite of the elite, during that time, will be stocked full of their gear that can make themselves feel better about themselves. Either way, there's really no effect on things as are.
6. How many older people have six friends, all into the same game, all available at the same time, that they can count on to be skilled enough to get through difficult content? Thus if the system implicitly requires you to hit up forums and coordinate with random people, what you're doing is little better than what you're actually going to get out of matchmaking.
7. In Bungie's own interviews they talk about the risk they are taking with this approach. They're aware that what they're doing isn't going to be well received. It won't take them long to back off from it.
8. If matchmaking is good enough for Strikes? Why include it at all for them, too? Why not make really hard three man strikes? Why match-make for some things but then not allow it for others? They already know the benefits of mm systems, so why ignore them for end level content?
These are just some of the reasons that I can think of as to why they should have it. Not having it severely dampens my excitement for the game.
As someone who played WoW from Vanilla to MoP, participated in server firsts, broke through World of Logs top 10 consistently, and whatever else you can think of at that level in the game, I never felt the Raid Finder affected me or anyone else negatively. It was one of the best additions to the game. The only negative aspect of the Raid Finder was that it was an entirely separate raid lockout for Hardcore raiders who felt like they were forced into doing it for optimal gear. That wouldn't affect Destiny at all.
Since my last post, the discussion has turned a bit elitist/rude. I'll opt to just bounce before it gets worse.
You know that even before matchmaking was officially added to WoW, people were still doing random pickup raids...and actually beating the content, right?
I mean holy shit, you realize people CAN STILL COMMUNICATE without being a preset raid, right? I just checked both my PS4 and Xbox One and they BOTH have headsets! Imagine if people...oh shit, I dunno...talked to each other on them?
Then they could actually coordinate, but that's obviously impossible unless they have a raid set up in advance. Hell, people might even be motivated to try and finish the raid to get loot...though clearly that sort of base instinct doesn't exist in the more noble 'organized' raiders.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
NOTHING IS FUCKING STOPPING YOU FROM DOING THE GODDAMN FUCKING CONTENT
Get 5 people together and go do it
Holy shit, this defeatist attitude of welp I won't be enjoying/doing it, I mean come the fuck on
95%? So your telling me, if Destiny sells 10 million copies, roughly 9.5 million players wont take the goddamn initiative after reaching the threshold to do said Raid, because there is no goddamn matchmaking?
U wot m8?
The evidence we have is the direct intent from the developer so I have no clue what you're on about. They're doubling down on this decision by the way. I mention that in case you didn't bother getting up to speed before posting.
you mean i can raid with you even though we may not be bone marrow matches??
all people are saying is having MM simplifies the process!! and doesnt impact the game in ANY negative way...
also, for the record...if Destiny sells 10 million copies...then all of the people in here comparing the raiding to WoW can just go a STFU already because their arguments become moot...
IF Destiny sells 10 million copies....probably 1/4 of those people will never do anything other than crucible because they are the CoD MP crowd...another 1/4 will never get close to the initial level cap...
your community starts dwindling very quickly on consoles...
Jest Chillin
Member
No, that's not what everyone has been saying. People have been saying that it takes coordination and teamwork. Something that is far less likely to occur when a group is matchmade.
The Raid will be at the height of it's difficulty at launch. Over time, people will figure it out and spread the strategies online. This will lead to more people clearing it. However, even with all that knowledge readily available, people will fail. This liklihood is significantly higher in matchmade groups.
The problem with this is that when people fail they don't acknowledge their own shortcomings but instead blame others. This leads to echo chamber complaints about how bad the game is which in turn hurts the game and possibly the devs reputation. I've pointed this out numerous times in the thread.
The choice seems logical and consistent in regards to some of their other decisions. Like the player chat.
I suspect Bungie wants to avoid those situations where strangers can come in and ruin the experience in unexpected ways. But perhaps this is not the best way to do it. All these features can be good if the community handles them well. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.
I suspect Bungie wants to avoid those situations where strangers can come in and ruin the experience in unexpected ways. But perhaps this is not the best way to do it. All these features can be good if the community handles them well. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.
wait a second.
I've heard dozens of times by both gaf and Bungie that Destiny is NOT an MMO. And I agree with them it's not. The game falls somewhere in between I think is a fair assessment. Every time theres a criticism about the scope and scale people are quick to say "It's not an MMO. Its a FPSRPG!"
So why are we all of a sudden now saying that raids are supposed to be these super hardcore MMO style raids when the rest of the game isn't a hardcore MMO.
If we look at recent Bungie history we see that their multiplayer "end-games" (aka max ranks) post Halo 2 are far from difficult to achieve and exaggerated. We can't say yet how hard/easy the raids will be, and simply taking their word for it would be premature.
Raids will more than likely be the most difficult part of the game. But that in no way should decide who is allowed to play and who isn't.
Don't remember anybody pugging zero light Yogg but okay, buddy, I see where you're going. The way you fuckers twist everything into grotesque caricatures of what we're saying astounds me.
I guess you just pointed out a couple solutions for those wanting matchmaking but who know it won't happen at launch. See? You don't need it. You can just put groups together the old fashioned way. Don't expect much success, though, and be prepared for the bitching, insults, trolls, and quitters because matchmaking is the fastest, most efficient way of removing accountability. Random pugs do nothing to enhance the game and will only harm the community when the echo chamber of negativity comes about.
Clearly people won't complain that they might not be able to do those raids at all. People who play at different times than their friends, for example.
I mean why would they want to try it in a matchmaking-style raid...they might fail! Clearly better to simply be locked out of doing that content at all, unless they can do their own matchmaking by approaching random people in the hub and sending them messages, or using an outside forum like GAF to try and get together. Way, way better than simply being randomly tossed together with people by some in-game system.
It's a modern game, so why the fuck should people have to? Learn the lessons of past games with far larger audiences. I don't think you'll be encouraging Bungie to add in a mandatory 'ammo reloading' downtime after every battle, just because Everquest had regen times...would you? Of course not, it was stupid and inconvenient and people hated it.
Jest Chillin
Member
The funny thing is you think you're responding with a clever zinger... when I've already stated multiple times that Bungie needs to fix communication and the ease in forming groups manually. THAT is the the thing that needs addressing. Matchmaking isn't the solution.
PUGS in WoW were not clearing content regularly until Wrath and even then that was only after Blizzard instituted time based nerfs to the content.
It's a regular complain in MP games on consoles that people either don't talk on mics, only curse/insult each other, or otherwise generally annoy others. But you think this won't happen in matchmaking becuase...?
Most people won't complain about not being able to do the content because they can get comparible rewards from Nightfall Missions which don't have the same requirements. Players tend to take the path of least resistance.
NullPointer
Member
If it was quick, easy and a positive experience to do so, people would do so.
My personal experience shows it not to be a positive experience. That's with clans, including GAF clans.
On the other hand I'm great at co-op, and my group of friends loves teamwork and tackling hard content together, but we can't hold to some strict schedule for gaming. We're parents and flex hours and work strange shifts. Two of us meet up semi-regularly, three on occasion and sometimes four, but it depends.
When we DO get together we want to tackle something tough, but telling us we either have to join a clan, or build an incredibly huge friends list purely for this game and hope that we all cross paths with the same schedule is as good as dropping a portcullis in front of this content.
We can get a few of us together and use matchmaking to fill the rest out though, and we've done so in other games, and we've succeeded because it is possible to work as a team with randoms.
I see how the exclusive nature of this mode could seem exciting for people who want to live their games, or treat it with the seriousness of a second job, but damnit, succeed or fail, I'd like to be able to tackle it for entertainment purposes. Its a game. Don't make the process of playing it into a chore.
Yes. That's exactly what I'm telling you. Not to mention it's extremely difficult to communicate in game - so anything you want to set up will have to be set up out of game on some random forums. That's enough of a buffer that most people won't bother doing it.
and nobody is arguing against that...but having MM as an option at least gives people the opportunity to PLAY the game they PAID for...
to play devil's advocate, would it hurt their reputation more than people who will inevitably complain that they are being blocked from participating in content they paid for because they dont have enough friends online?...
i think youre seriously overestimating a few things...
1. the number of people who will even be playing this game
2. the number of people from #1 that didnt buy it just to play Crucible because Bungie made Halo
3. the number of people that will ever get to a lvl high enough to contemplate taking part in a raid...
if the raids are held behind some sort of lvl/gear/abilities barrier, and the MM is properly designed...youre only dealing with the top 10% of people that bought the game in the first place...
Never knew the Raid was the sole game mode in Destiny.
Raid is end-game. Meaning once you do everything in the story/reach max rank and take the "extra step." And because of "the extra step" it isn't for everyone.
Apparently giving the majority of your players options somehow taints these peoples accomplishments.
First off it's disputable that LFR is "overwhelming" considered anything. Like most shit on the internet a vocal minority can be very loud. Second, since when does LFR raid become "these" examples? It's a single example of which, as my last quote mentions, would have no impact in Destiny. To counter your argument, Wildstar went the complete opposite of WoW, and is currently a sinking ship because of it. Excluding content from the majority of your playerbase is a bad idea, end of story.
This.
Jest Chillin
Member
Not playing one activity =/= not playing the game they paid for. Nightfall Missions and PvP are said to be able to reward the same/similar level of items that Raids do. Not to mention Story Missions, Strikes while leveled and high level Strike Playlists.
The number of people who will play the game has no relevance to the discussion. The number of people who play the game who didn't but it to play Crucible still have a ton of content to play, including content that offers similar rewards as Raids without the same level of effort or commitment. The number of people that get to a level high enough to take part in a Raid again has no relevance.