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[loosus]

Because I've seen more and more of my friends recently return games (or rent games and decide not to bother with it) simply because going through the tutorials was such a hassle.

And I, too, really and truly despise tutorials. Super Mario Bros. didn't have a tutorial, damnit!

Are tutorials becoming counterproductive? The whole point was to get people to play who aren't usually into games, right?

 

[John Dunbar]

mandatory tutorials are the worst thing ever.

 

[Danielsan]

Tutorials should be optional in the menu screen. What ever happened to just figuring things out yourself by pressing the buttons...

 

[Aeris130]

Just make the first 2-3 levels/missions focus on nothing but basic controls, and custom script a few helping messages along the way. How fucking hard can it be?

Tutorials needs to go in every episodic game that doesn't throw the player into the full experience from the get-go (tetris etc.).

 

[loosus]

Tutorials should be optional in the menu screen. What ever happened to just figuring things out yourself by pressing the buttons...

Really. And some people will claim that games are so complex nowadays that you need a tutorial. But I think that's more a problem with the design of the game...a game like Super Metroid would blow some people's minds nowadays without a tutorial. But thankfully, Super Metroid was pretty smart in that it started simple and became slightly more complex as the player got deeper into the game.

Just make the first 2-3 levels/missions focus on nothing but basic controls, and custom script a few helping messages along the way. How fucking hard can it be?

Remember Super Mario World? You didn't even really NEED any explanations in that game, but they had little boxes you could hit for hints on how to play (which fell in line with the NORMAL gameplay -- because you hit that box just like you would a Question Box or bricked box).

 

[Man God]

The best fucking part of one of my favorite games is the tutorial. You just have to do it right.

(You can skip it on later playthroughs if you are a monster or something.)

 

[tzp2gameknight]

I wouldn't say they are ruining games. They can be annoying but if the game is good enough I usually am able to tough it out to get to the meat of the game.

 

[Totobeni]

dear VG devs ,

this put your instructions inside these

and it's enough and better than ruined many levels of the games with stupid and useless tutorials ?? or people can't read anymore .

 

[naldo]

I cant think of too many recent games where I thought the tutorial was a hassle, most of the time it only takes 5-10 minutes to get through it if you already know the basics of the genre, and if its taking more time than that, then you probably needed the tutorial anyways.

 

[Variable]

I think all games should just shove you in with no tutorial, except maybe have some text pop up explaining some of the controls.

 

[crowphoenix]

Well, as most people don't read the manuals anymore (I fail at this) and are quick to give up the moment anything confuses them, I'd much rather have tutorials at the begining of a game than threads of people ranting about awkward and stupid design.

 

[Lostconfused]

Super Mario Bros. didn't have a tutorial, damnit!

The last two games i purchased needed a tutorial. I am sure the tutorial in bionic commando helped me to pick up the game much faster than if i just tried to start playing it right of the bat.

and it's enough and better than ruined many levels of the games with stupid and useless tutorials ?? or people can't read anymore .

Not trying to defend tutorials but clearly there is a difference between reading about how things work and actually trying to do them. Also, cant you buy siren through psn and you know not get a manual?

 

[GitarooMan]

You've got some really finicky friends....

 

[kamorra]

I've never had a problem with tutorials and I don't understand why someone would return a multiple hour long game because of a 5-10min long tutorial.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Eden's tutorial sucks. Though, it is pretty useful when you encounter new types of prowlers. PEACE.

 

[loosus]

Well, as most people don't read the manuals anymore (I fail at this) and are quick to give up the moment anything confuses them

This is where I think you're actually wrong, though. I think you're way underestimating even casual players. Casual players -- more than anybody else -- want to pick up and play right off the bat.

I really think most casual players will deal with initial confusion far better than dealing with an annoying tutorial. Initial confusion can be fun. Tutorials just usually are not fun at all.

And besides, if you can't figure the game out without a tutorial, something is WRONG with the game. You can start a game off being extremely simple and continually add complexity as time goes along. Those expansions in games like Super Metroid were not only for the "oh wow, that's so cool and unexpected" moments; they also ensured that the game started simply and ended with more complexity.

I've never had a problem with tutorials and I don't understand why someone would return a multiple hour long game because of a 5-10min long tutorial.

Because they'll never actually GET to the game.

Not trying to defend tutorials but clearly there is a difference between reading about how things work and actually trying to do them

You'd have to, ya know, play the game to do them. Since when are you supposed to be able to do everything 100% correctly the first time?

In this day and age, I'd imagine that most people would get to a pitfall (i.e., hole) in Super Mario Bros and demand a tutorial on how to cross it. Do people really want the game to pause when you come up on a pitfall and have a balloon window appear that says, "Ruh oh! Looks like you've stumbled upon a pitfall! Here, you'll need to have Mario run (hold down the B Button) and jump at the right moment! We're going to take you out of the game temporarily so you can get in a few practice jumps!"

Have we really been that reduced as a society? That we can't POSSIBLY have failure on first attempt?

 

[Android18a]

I'm wishing A-Train HX had a tutorial. This game is the definition of throwing you in at the deep end.

 

[Ranger X]

There are 2 things that are counter-productive for real:

1- Games that absolutely need a tutorial to be understood.

2- Tutorials that aren't optional.


Seriously, this should be golden words in game designers' mouth.

 

[MattNY]

Can they be slightly annoying? Sure. But they are usually over quick. Giving up on a game because of it is a level of idiocy beyond the devs including the tutorial in the first place.

As others have said, they should be an option when starting the game. You go through it once if you want to, or just say fuck it and jump right into the action.

 

[loosus]

Can they be slightly annoying? Sure. But they are usually over quick. Giving up on a game because of it is a level of idiocy beyond the devs including the tutorial in the first place.

Why is it idiocy? They feel like it's wasting their time. They don't NEED to play the game to begin with.

What would truly be idiocy is if a starving person gave up food just because someone wanted to give a 15-minute speech before it was distributed. That would be truly idiotic.

 

[Xenon]

The way Gears of War did it was perfect.


edit: Too Human would have benefited from having one.

 

[Gagaman]

They drive me nuts when they physically stop you to talk you through it.
"PRESS A TO JUMP"
*jump* .... *ju"WELL DONE, JUMPING IS GOOD FOR GETTING FROM PLATFORM TO PLATFORM BLAH BLAH BLAH."

"NOW DO THIS ATTACK BY PRESSING A AND B"

*A and"HURRY UP JUST DO IT ALREADY"

*A and "I'LL TELL YOU AGAIN. DO THIS ATTACK BY PRESSING A AND B."

 

[mikeGFG]

Some be a hassle, sure. But, I dont really have a problem with tutorials in general.

A good tutorial should be masked in such a way that you arent even aware of its guidance.

 

[Chao]

Dear devs:

If your game needs a tutorial in order to be understandable, you fail at gaming design.

 

[MattNY]

Why is it idiocy? They feel like it's wasting their time. They don't NEED to play the game to begin with.

What would truly be idiocy is if a starving person gave up food just because someone wanted to give a 15-minute speech before it was distributed. That would be truly idiotic.

Gaming in itself is a waste of time, especially if you want to bring in comparisons of starving people.

It is idiotic to return a game because you have to go through a small tutorial. It is a warm up for the actual game. They are generally very brief and if you throw up your hands in the air and say 'I am not playing this shit' at the first sign of a tutorial, then you are an idiot. Since you seem to enjoy analogies, then that would like throwing a book away for having a prologue.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

assasines creed had the worst tutorial i ever played (+ you cant skip it)
the best way imho is how mgs4 does it, you can play the game right away - no text no tutorial...(well a lot of movies ...) but if you want you can go to a tutorialspace and get the controls perfect.

 

[Lostconfused]

Gaming in itself is a waste of time, especially if you want to bring in comparisons of starving people.

It is idiotic to return a game because you have to go through a small tutorial. It is a warm up for the actual game. They are generally very brief and if you throw up your hands in the air and say 'I am not playing this shit' at the first sign of a tutorial, then you are an idiot. Since you seem to enjoy analogies, then that would like throwing a book away for having a prologue.

I give you a better example. A play having a list of characters.

 

[Dead Man]

And besides, if you can't figure the game out without a tutorial, something is WRONG with the game.

Depends on the genre really... Complex strategy games, simulators, and puzzle games can all benefit from tutorials without being broken. Also depends on whether a substantial manual is included. That said, I think the best way for most genres is optional on screen hints/help messages as you play the normal game.

 

[jonnybryce]

They hurt potential sales. When you dl a demo and you're just playing a tutorial the whole time, lots of times that's a turn off and not fun.

Actual games, not really. Other than Gran Turismo.

There are some games where the mandatory tutorial won't be clear and I'll be stuck and frustrated. But then I go online. I guess this part could be what the issue is.

 

[Cynar]

Intruction booklets > Tutorials

 

[Stat Flow]

The way Gears of War did it was perfect.


edit: Too Human would have benefited from having one.

This. And This.

 

[adamsapple]

i don't mind a single tutorial or two at the start to get me accustomed to the control scheme, any more then that is a hassle though.

 

[CPS2]

Dear devs:

If your game needs a tutorial in order to be understandable, you fail at gaming design.

Chess, Monopoly, Poker.

 

[loosus]

Gaming in itself is a waste of time, especially if you want to bring in comparisons of starving people.

No, gaming is not a waste of time if you ENJOY it. That's the gain from it. If you are not enjoying it, then it is a freaking waste of time.

And the comparison wasn't between gaming and starving; it was between what is truly idiotic and what isn't.

It is idiotic to return a game because you have to go through a small tutorial. It is a warm up for the actual game. They are generally very brief and if you throw up your hands in the air and say 'I am not playing this shit' at the first sign of a tutorial, then you are an idiot. Since you seem to enjoy analogies, then that would like throwing a book away for having a prologue.

If you are going through a tutorial and just finally just get fed up, I can see why you'd return the shit. Ya know, not everybody reads just how cool and awesome so-and-so game is, so they have no idea what they're missing and really couldn't give a shit. In their mind, there's no loss; the loss would be if they stuck to playing such shit.

Chess, Monopoly, Poker.

You could argue that videogames could actually benefit these games by starting off by having the player playing a stripped-down game and adding complexity as time goes on. You can't do that in real life, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a tutorial is the best solution.

But actually, when I started playing poker (which was on GBA, incidentally), I -- gasp -- read up on the game first in the manual and then played -- without a tutorial, to boot.

 

[test_account]

Because they'll never actually GET to the game.

Out of curiousity, which games have so long tutorials that you dont get to the game? (i know that you dont literally mean "never get to the game", but that the tutorials are very long).

I'm not really that big of a fan of forced tutorial levels myself, atleast tutorial levels that doesnt have too much to do with the main game (i think forced tutorial popup blocks like in Pixel Junk Eden for the PS3 is ok though), so this is not something that i disagree with you on, i'm just curious of which games that have so long tutorials that they are "return-worthy" (or what i shall say)

 

[JudgeN]

That just stupid, returning a game because of the tutorials. If people starting actually reading the instruction books again there wouldn't be any need. But reading the instructions is now a "waste of time" so you gotta do something. Gamers are lazy as shit now a days its a true shame.

 

[pete_townshend]

Have we really been that reduced as a society? That we can't POSSIBLY have failure on first attempt?

Have we really been that reduced as a society that we can't handle any slight inconvenience? Tell your friends to take their fucking Ritalin. Returning a game because of a tutorial? :lol

It's a stupid argument anyway because there are hardly any games out there with proper tutorials anyway, let alone ones that are 5-10 minutes. Most tutorials just consist of occasional popups the first time you do an action (jump, climb, crouch) which you can cancel immediately and be on your merry way.

 

[MattNY]

No, gaming is not a waste of time if you ENJOY it. That's the gain from it. If you are not enjoying it, then it is a freaking waste of time.

And the comparison wasn't between gaming and starving; it was between what is truly idiotic and what isn't.

Obviously, but it is generally best not to even bring up starving people in a discussion about people having such angst in their lives, that going through a 10 minute gaming tutorial is way too much anguish for them to bare. A thing can be idiotic in different contexts. It doesn't have to be that there is just one idiotic thing in the world and that the rest cannot possibly be.

If you are going through a tutorial and just finally just get fed up, I can see why you'd return the shit. Ya know, not everybody reads just how cool and awesome so-and-so game is, so they have no idea what they're missing and really couldn't give a shit. In their mind, there's no loss; the loss would be if they stuck to playing such shit.

If they don't have the patience to go through a small tutorial, then I doubt they would have the patience to get through anything else they find slightly annoying. No game is absolute perfect from start to finish..same with books, movies, relationships..anything in life. If it is something you enjoy doing in general, then you should have enough patience to give it more than a few minutes. Even if the tutorials aren't as fun as the actual game, you can see the potential that is there and begin to judge that once the training wheels are off, is this a game that is designed in a fashion that I will enjoy.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Obnoxious overly long tutorials are a bit much but then so is returning a good game because of one.


It's an understandable development unfortunately. Nobody reads manuals along with publishers trying to save money by skimping on them leads to confused players. The best solution for that situation is a tutorial approach to gameplay.

 

[Yoshichan]

Half-Life (1)

You know what I'm talking about.

And both you and I know that it's the best way of doing a tutorial.

 

[Neo C.]

There are 2 things that are counter-productive for real:

1- Games that absolutely need a tutorial to be understood.
2- Tutorials that aren't optional.

Seriously, this should be golden words in game designers' mouth.

Some of the best games have mandatory tutorials. Smart developers just make it somewhat invisible or as less penetrant as possible, and make it enjoyable. I'm still amazed how well implemented the tutorial in Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword is.

 

[Xenon]

Hands on training is always better than a book. I cant see going back to reading the manual for some of the more complex games. However it should always be optional.

 

[JBuccCP]

They can be somewhat annoying if they last too long. However if you return a game or don't play it because of a mandatory tutorial you're just stupid.

 

[Chao]

Chess, Monopoly, Poker.

Chess, Monopoly and Poker have tutorials?
Well, last time I played Monopoly there was... an instruction booklet, just like the booklets in game cases (wink, wink). You read it in about 3 minutes, and you can start playing.
Chess and Poker have RULES. You read the rules, you play. You can even not read the rules and play, you will probably suck.

Unskipabble tutorials are... unskipabble, often long, tedious and silly.

"WELL WE WILL LEARN HOW TO JUMP. LIKE IN NEARLY EVERY OTHER GODDAMN GAME, YOU JUMP BY PRESSING A. PRESS A TO JUMP. JUMP TO THAT ROPE JUST TO BE SURE YOU GOT THE IDEA"

Well, I have several fingers, I think I can figure it out by myself by pressing the buttons

 

[Ranger X]

Some of the best games have mandatory tutorials. Smart developers just make it somewhat invisible or as less penetrant as possible, and make it enjoyable. I'm still amazed how well implemented the tutorial in Fire Emblem: Blazing Sword is.

Tutorials and manual should be accessible at all times by the pause menu. All problems solved. At the beginning of the game it ask you "do you want to start a tutorial". If you answer "no" it tells you it will always be there in the pause menu accessible at all times, just like the manual.

That's the way to makes videogames and the day i'll be at the wheel, it will ALWAYS be like that in my games you can bet on that. No integrated fourth wall breaking crap.

 

[Haunted]

If it has to be a separate thing, make it so I can quit at any time and start with the game proper when I realise I've gotten the hang of it.

Or even better, incorporate it unobtrusively into the opening minutes of gameplay.

 

[crowphoenix]

This is where I think you're actually wrong, though. I think you're way underestimating even casual players. Casual players -- more than anybody else -- want to pick up and play right off the bat.

I really think most casual players will deal with initial confusion far better than dealing with an annoying tutorial. Initial confusion can be fun. Tutorials just usually are not fun at all.

And besides, if you can't figure the game out without a tutorial, something is WRONG with the game. You can start a game off being extremely simple and continually add complexity as time goes along. Those expansions in games like Super Metroid were not only for the "oh wow, that's so cool and unexpected" moments; they also ensured that the game started simply and ended with more complexity.

Ah, I believe we are discussing a different group of gamers. Personally, I prefer when a game just throws me into a game and I have to look at a manual if I am so confused and dying too much. I was actually refering the core gamers who can't handle challenge. But, I can see why a tutorial would be a hindrance to those that want in on the action quicker.

I, actually, prefer when games don't have them. I'd rather jump right in and learn. But, I've adjusted to them, I guess.

 

[elbkhm]

It's a no-win scenario. People hate being forced to play through tutorials. People hate reading manuals. People hate being confused by a game.

 

[spliced]

They should be optional, but I don't see why someone would return a game because of a little tutorial.

I like them, I find it easier to learn a game thru gameplay as opposed to reading about it in the manual.

 

[Anony]

if the game has a good design, the 'tutorial' would have been seamlessly integrated into the first few stages of the game and you wouldnt notice it being a tutorial

but yeah, give me 5 mins, let me press all the buttons, i'll figure it out as i go