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[eyeball_kid]

I doubt most people give the button symbols on the PlayStation controller much thought. But apparently there was a lot of thought behind it.

According to Teiyu Goto (designer of the controller) in a 1UP interview I can no longer link to:

The circle and cross represent "yes" and "no," respectively; the triangle symbolizes a point of view and the square is equated to a sheet of paper there to be used to access menus.

Interesting, but why do the circle and cross represent "yes" and "no"? Apparently this is a Japanese cultural convention, as explained in this article about a couple of strange emoji you've probably seen on your smartphone. In a Medium essay referenced in that article:

Batsu (x) is the symbol for incorrect, and can represent false, bad, wrong or attack, while maru (o) means correct, true, good, whole, or something precious.

This is probably also why the O is on the right side, as the "right" is usually considered the correct side.

I never would've considered the abstract symbology for the triangle and the square, but I wish Sony had included these explanations in their documentation. It might've been easier to remember what each button is meant for in an iconic sense, rather than just memorizing meaningless shapes.

note: please don't turn this into another "x" versus "cross" pronunciation thread

 

[Pegosaurus]

it's x not cross

 

[Mysterious]

Dang this is really cool.

 

[Stratostar]

it's x not cross

Preach it brah

 

[Past]

Should've kept it that way in the West.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Now can they explain why they can't make an ergonomic controller to save their lives?

 

[Astral/H3X]

So, maybe I'm just obtuse, but...

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Seriously, it's always confused me that X would be the one to select and O was cancel.

 

[Trago]

Were there any games that utilized the triangle and square button's intended mechanics?

I know a lot of Japanese games use the X and circle buttons for select and back, or yes and no.

 

[OnionPowder]

Here come the X vs Cross debates again

 

[Servbot24]

So, maybe I'm just obtuse, but...

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Seriously, it's always confused me that X would be the one to select and O was cancel.

It's because the thumb typically rests on X, and it's more common to confirm things than to cancel.

 

[Astral/H3X]

It's because the thumb typically rests on X, and it's more common to confirm things than to cancel.

That's stupid. Should just make it the GCN style, then it will forever make sense.

 

[spliced]

I don't know why companies don't just use up, down, left, right or north, south, east and west. That way everyone would know which button is which without needing to look at them.

 

[Zing]

The old thread discussing this isn't even a month old yet.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=843857&page=1

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

It was always pretty clear to me that O was 1, X was 2, triangle was 3, and square was 4. Arranged in the pattern of the SNES, the PS1's ancestor.

 

[Servbot24]

That's stupid. Should just make it the GCN style, then it will forever make sense.

Everything should be GCN style but alas :/

 

[Pathos]

So that's what they mean, always wanted to know

 

[10k]

Please lord, don't turn this into a "X vs. Cross" thread again. This is old news by the way, as the original "X vs. Cross" thread was started from this quote.

 

[Creaking]

Now can they explain why they can't make an ergonomic controller to save their lives?

Where have you been since November?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Playing import games is such a pain in the ass because of the switching.

 

[Jachaos]

Now can they explain why they can't make an ergonomic controller to save their lives?

I would've agreed with this a year ago.

 

[JohnGrimm]

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Because of this abomination:

I don't know why companies don't just use up, down, left, right or north, south, east and west. That way everyone would know which button is which without needing to look at them.

You expect too much.

 

[akachan ningen]

I thought that the triangle represented the father, the son, and the holy ghost. And that the square represented Mark Cerny.

 

[EightBitNate]

Because of this abomination:

You expect too much.

You realize that the 360 pad came out 10 years after the fact, right?

 

[Creaking]

So, maybe I'm just obtuse, but...

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Seriously, it's always confused me that X would be the one to select and O was cancel.

X marks the spot!

 

[Zukuu]

Simple solution:
Switch X and O button. Keep O = Yes, X = No.

Everyone happy.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

So, maybe I'm just obtuse, but...

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Seriously, it's always confused me that X would be the one to select and O was cancel.

I thought it was a Japanese thing, where Japanese people places X's in tests for yes and Naughts for No's.

or is that some urban myth?

 

[DMiz]

I remember the days when there used to be a thing going around that the shapes were chosen based on the number of lines it took to draw the shape, and that they ascended in linear order.

e.g. Circle takes one line; X takes 2 lines; a triangle takes 3 lines; a square takes 4 lines.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

X should have been red and Circle should have been blue.

 

[Qblivion]

Because of this abomination:

I've played SNES games where B was accept. For some reason westerners are obsessed with the idea of the bottom button being accept.

Also, only the Japanese call X cross. If you aren't Japanese fucking stop.

 

[OverdriveOtaku]

it's x not cross

ecks, baby

 

[rpmurphy]

I thought it was a Japanese thing, where Japanese people places X's in tests for yes and Naughts for No's.

or is that some urban myth?

When grading tests, circles mean correct answer and checkmarks mean wrong answer.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

When grading tests, circles mean correct answer and checkmarks means wrong answer.

sorry i got it backwards, but yes. This is what i was told the reason the controls were always reversed for.

 

[Eusis]

You realize that the 360 pad came out 10 years after the fact, right?

Well Xbox was about half that, but they were switching X and O long before they even seriously considered putting a console out, and anyways Xbox was irrelevant at the time for influencing such trends.

Sounds like it may've been because they thought X was more naturally the way to mark a selection outside of Japan (disregarding all the fucking ATMs and computer UIs where you absolutely press X to close something and sometimes have O right there for OK/correct) and I do wonder if early American developers were running with their own logic (Warhawk and Twisted Metal used TRIANGLE for cancel and for some god forsaken reason Select to pause rather than Start, with Start usually not stopping the gameplay like most games that used Select instead had the courtesy of doing.) Then there's the colors, the designer may've been adamant about them being the way they were but I have to imagine if Circle were blue and X red it'd come off as FAR more obvious to leave X as cancel.

I've railed against that switch for a long, long time. It's like screwing up international standards because you CAN, at least nearly every other switch has to do with something ingrained over countless generations than a few people that didn't bother paying attention to the SNES the generation prior, or thinking "let's just make it easier for localizing games and NOT arbitrarily mix things up!"

I've played SNES games where B was accept. For some reason westerners are obsessed with the idea of the bottom button being accept.

Also, only the Japanese call X cross. If you aren't Japanese fucking stop.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to recognize Cross as the official name and X the nickname everyone uses. Conversation is kind of arbitrary, but for typing things out you kind of come off as a tool if you insist on typing Cross rather than X.

 

[Casimir]

Now can they explain why they can't make an ergonomic controller to save their lives?

DS3 is perfect. DS4 is a bit too big but has better triggers. I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[herod]

So, maybe I'm just obtuse, but...

How is it not super fucking obvious that it makes sense for O to be "correct" and X to be "incorrect/cancel"?

Seriously, it's always confused me that X would be the one to select and O was cancel.

On Japanese playstations, O is select and X is cancel.

 

[eyeball_kid]

The old thread discussing this isn't even a month old yet.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=843857&page=1

Yes, there have been a couple recent threads about "x" versus "cross", and that's not what this thread is about. I wasn't aware of the meanings behind all four symbols, nor was I was I aware of the Japanese derivation for the X and O. So apologies if that was elucidated before, but hopefully this will be informative to others as it was for me.

I do wonder how many games followed the square=menu and triangle=perspective meanings, and if Sony expressed these meanings to developers early on. I'm not even sure what "perspective" is supposed to denote within a gameplay perspective, other than something like "overhead view" or camera switching.

 

[Llamadeus]

X should have been red and Circle should have been blue.

This.

The least they could have done was color code them correctly.

Do they not use red for stop signs and traffic lights in Japan?

 

[Eusis]

I do wonder how many games followed the square=menu and triangle=perspective meanings, and if Sony expressed these meanings to developers early on. I'm not even sure what "perspective" is supposed to denote within a gameplay perspective, other than something like "overhead view" or camera switching.

We have had many MegaTen games use the Square button for menus (though I think P3/P4 may've flipped that?) but can't recall many beyond those. It was frequently the MAP button though which I think is a reasonably sensible alternative, and with many modern action games there's better used for Square anyway.

 

[Dr.brain64]

It makes sense that the circle and x mean yes no but i am so used to the other way, it's more confortable imo.

 

[Pyccko]

Now can they explain why they can't make an ergonomic controller to save their lives?

Not to derail, but I gotta say the DS4 is probably the most comfortable game controller for me since the SNES. The WiiU gamepad on the other hand is literally a pain to use. I have pretty long fingers, and I've illustrated my problem with it.

It's a killer on those last digits, and the main reason I haven't bought one yet. I hear the Gamecube had a really comfy controller, but I haven't had the pleasure of trying one.

 

[Hero]

O = one line shape
X = two lines crossing
Triangle = three lines
Square = four lines

 

[rpmurphy]

Not to derail, but I gotta say the DS4 is probably the most comfortable game controller for me since the SNES. The WiiU gamepad on the other hand is literally a pain to use. I have pretty long fingers, and I've illustrated my problem with it.

It's a killer on those last digits, and the main reason I haven't bought one yet. I hear the Gamecube had a really comfy controller, but I haven't had the pleasure of trying one.

The way you are gripping the pad seems weird to me. Like, gripping is not necessary at all.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I remember the days when there used to be a thing going around that the shapes were chosen based on the number of lines it took to draw the shape, and that they ascended in linear order.

e.g. Circle takes one line; X takes 2 lines; a triangle takes 3 lines; a square takes 4 lines.

Yup, that's what I figure.

 

[Pyccko]

The way you are gripping the pad seems weird to me. Like, gripping is not necessary at all.

I mean, I'm not really gripping it for dear life or anything, just as much as needed to keep my thumbs on the sticks and feel like it's not gonna slip through my fingers. If I loosened my grip so that my fingertips weren't being bent, there was a huge space between the sides of the pad and my palm, like I was holding a champagne glass or something.

Also, the drawing isn't very clear because I'm a terrible artist and the perspective on the thumbs was kinda hard to draw top-down, so I basically ignored them and focused on the problem area (the tips of the fingers in the back), But I've been wanting to illustrate that problem for a while and finally for god knows what reason decided now was the time.

 

[Cynn]

I've always felt that Circle and Square were too similar of shapes at a glance to make them similar colors. (Red/Pink)

Cross should be red, Circle should be green, Triangle orange and Square blue.

 

[vagabondarts]

it's x not cross

First post nails it. I imagine people in Europe calling it cross more than Americans do

 

[Ryouji Gunblade]

O = one line shape
X = two lines crossing
Triangle = three lines
Square = four lines

You just blew my mind.

 

[Miker]

Well Xbox was about half that, but they were switching X and O long before they even seriously considered putting a console out, and anyways Xbox was irrelevant at the time for influencing such trends.

Sounds like it may've been because they thought X was more naturally the way to mark a selection outside of Japan (disregarding all the fucking ATMs and computer UIs where you absolutely press X to close something and sometimes have O right there for OK/correct) and I do wonder if early American developers were running with their own logic (Warhawk and Twisted Metal used TRIANGLE for cancel and for some god forsaken reason Select to pause rather than Start, with Start usually not stopping the gameplay like most games that used Select instead had the courtesy of doing.) Then there's the colors, the designer may've been adamant about them being the way they were but I have to imagine if Circle were blue and X red it'd come off as FAR more obvious to leave X as cancel.

I've railed against that switch for a long, long time. It's like screwing up international standards because you CAN, at least nearly every other switch has to do with something ingrained over countless generations than a few people that didn't bother paying attention to the SNES the generation prior, or thinking "let's just make it easier for localizing games and NOT arbitrarily mix things up!"

I agree. My thoughts on this matter, from a practical perspective:

As someone who's been gaming for a while, and loves using the Dualshock 4 (for PC gaming), I can't stand Sony's symbols. There's been very little consistency across games and across generations. Stuff like:

- In Japan, Circle is yes and X is no. And this is switched for the Western releases of Japanese games - but not all of them.
- According to the one quote from the guy who came up w/ the shapes, Square is supposed to be the menu button - then why did a lot of PS1/2 RPGs use Triangle as the menu button? What games actually did use Square as menu?
- In the PS2 era (and some PS3 games, I think?), a lot of games used Triangle as back. Why. Good lord, why.
-- Now with the PS4, circle is back to being back. Well, okay then.
- Distinguishing between pink for square and orange-red for circle sucked on blurry-ass CRTs, and still kinda sucks in general when trying to decide which button to press. I still have to think for a split second when I first start a game and get used to controls.

If you grew up with Sony controllers and can use them well, that's good and all, and the shapes have become pretty iconic in their own right. That said, I don't see any practical advantages shapes offer over letters, and I hate that Sony has been so inconsistent with the controls across all these generations.

 

[ZeroX03]

This.

The least they could have done was color code them correctly.

Do they not use red for stop signs and traffic lights in Japan?

Pretty sure it is color coded correctly for Japan. Pokemon does the same thing with nature stats (red means good/increased, blue means bad/decreased).

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Everything should be GCN style but alas :/

Not D-pads. *shudders*