• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

I prefer the original DKC trilogy to Retro's revival

SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I realize this is a very unpopular opinion, but I can't be the only one who feels this way.

When I heard DKC was coming back, and being made by Retro studios, I was ecstatic. I'm a huge fan of the first three games. When I finally got around to playing Returns, and then later, Tropical Freeze, something about the games didn't click with me the same way DKC did. I think the main thing is the atmosphere - in the original three games, the art style and atmosphere was very different. It was more realistic, more oppressive, and less "goofy". The cartoony look and feel of DKCR and TF is very off putting.

Now, I realize Retro did a lot of things right, and did them very well:

-Mechanically, the new games are much more advanced and control more tightly, boss fights are much more involved

-Attention to detail is superb and you can tell the games were crafted with love for the material (seeing other stages in the background is my personal favorite example of this)

-Added their own little quirks, such as the silhouette levels

-Music in Tropical Freeze may be the best in the series

But despite all this, when I look at each set of games and judge them subjectively by the time period and environment that they were released in, I end up preferring the originals. Does anyone else agree with me, and if so, why?

Edit: I realize it's strange to argue for an opinion by defending the games I like less, but I don't dislike Returns or Tropical Freeze. And I can't put my finger on the exact reason I prefer the originals, besides that they were "more enjoyable for their time" and that the art style and atmosphere seemed more appealing.
 
B

braves01

Banned
I disagree with you, for all the reasons you recognize in your post, primarily your first bullet point. The DKC games were not great mechanically even at the time of release.
 
E

Escalario

Banned
That's your opinion and of course it's valid.
I find the DKC1-3 clunky and ugly these days. Sure the games were great when they came out, but they didn't stand the pass of time well, especially the prerendered graphics.
 
I

Ishida

Banned
Yeah, me too. I guess I just love the art style and mood of the original games, and I really dislike the current style.
 
corrosivefrost

corrosivefrost

Member
I can't speak about anything but DKCR3D (3DS) vs. the original SNES DKC and DKC2.

And in that race, DKCR3D is a flaming dumpster fire of garbage compared to the SNES games.
 
J

JoeInky

Member
TF = DKC2 > DKCR > DKC >> DKC3


I think it's impossible to say one "series" is better than the other, they're not all of consistent quality.
 
G

GrotesqueBeauty

Banned
I still think DKC2 is the best, but I prefer Returns to 1&3. I need to finish Tropical Freeze and digest the experience before I weigh in on it, but it has pros and cons. The presentation is fantastic, but I'm not sure I'm sold on all of the mechanics.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
Tropical Freeze is a Candy Kong free zone, so I feel more comfortable there.

I regard Retro's games much more highly than Rare's, but I still enjoy the original trilogy (except the first one). I'll agree that 2 has a sinister atmosphere unmatched by any of the others.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
For me, it's TF = DKC2 > DKCR > DKC3 >>> DKC1.

I don't really care for DKC1. So dated compared to the four sequels.
 
M

Mauricio_Magus

Banned
I do agree that the atmosphere of the original trilogy is better than the Retro revival, but with that said, Tropical Freeze is the best game of the series, it's flawless and imo the best 2D platformer of all time.

I hope Retro's next game is another DK game, the tears would be delicious and we would get another amazing platformer.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Not sure it's an entirely controversial opinion. Personally I'd put DKCTF above DKC1 and 3 but below 2. 2 was just a masterpiece. Though I'll admit my opinion of DKCTF is a bit unfairly marred by what they did with Stickerbrush Symphony. Fuck the guy on flute.

They're a bit hard to compare in any way but music and gameplay IMO though. DKCTF deserves props for the amazing use of 3D in a way that actually makes me glad it was 3D not 2D--I VERY rarely prefer 3D art in a 2D gameplay game. Animations in levels were great, above what DKC ever could do because it was all sprites and tiles, but DKC still had beautiful stuff. The score in DKCTF is great, but I still think DKC2 handily beats it.

Not sure I agree about the controls. I absolutely hate roll and ground pound being the same button in DKCTF, especially when a ton of buttons are duplicates/unused. I never rolled off a cliff trying to ground pound in the original games. I can't recall any control problems whatsoever in the originals.

Finally, props to Dixie for still being the best character to a broken degree 19 years later
 
A

Abounder

Banned
Same deal with Star Fox, I like the earlier styles better than their 3d incarnations. The Kong universe was a grimdark and funky place.
 
E

EhoaVash

Member
i would of agreed with you on Returns ..that game was okay ..

but Tropical freeze blows every dk game out of existent


sooo damnnn goood.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Mauricio_Magus said:
I do agree that the atmosphere of the original trilogy is better than the Retro revival, but with that said, Tropical Freeze is the best game of the series, it's flawless and imo the best 2D platformer of all time.

I hope Retro's next game is another DK game, the tears would be delicious and we would get another amazing platformer.
Click to expand...
I would also like to see Retro complete their own DKC trilogy. :)
 
L

lucablight

Member
The retro games are very overrated. I actually enjoyed exploring in the rare trilogy because I wasn't afraid I was going to die every five seconds or roll off the edge of a platform because of poor physics implementation. Not to mention retro has absolutely no idea when it comes to characterisation "-love cranky"....really?
 
V

ViewtifulJC

Banned
DKC2 > TF > DKCR >> DKC3 >> DKC1

2 is still the best for me because of its secret/bonuses. They are intelligently placed around the levels and it becomes a game within a game trying to suss out the developers hiding places and using your various skills to acquire them. The bonus rooms are all distinct and thematically relevant to the level you're currently in, compared to the generic half a dozen(if that) they recycle for the Retro titles. The 75 bonus coins actually work towards something of value, a Lost World with new music and environments and obstacles and the real final boss/ending. And the DK coin is the greatest of all platformer secrets, that single cool collectible Cranky dares you to find all 40 of.

TF/DKCR are still great, tho. More bombastic than Rare's kinda melancholy styles, more environmental interaction that the static Rareware backgrounds, but they're great. Some of my favorite platformers/games ever, really.

DKC3 goes overboard with the gimmicks and collectibles, but its a quality game. DKC1 I think is actively kinda bad. Its pretty amazing how much better DKC2 is, despite coming out just a year later and they're built on so many similar quantities and ideas.
 
D

Deadpool_X

Banned
I think that DKC 1-2 are better games than DKCR, but Tropical Freeze beats all others in game play, levels, theme, and music.

Also, DKC3 is a great big pile of steaming butt. That game is boring, broken, and gives me brain damage to even think about.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
DKC 1 vs 3 is always the most interesting debate. Personally I find 3 to be far better in gameplay, but Kiddie Kong was a terrible inclusion (that honestly barely affects gameplay, he's just basically Donkey) and losing the classic enemies stings a bit (no Zingers?!). I still find DKC3 to be better though, due to a fun world map, better extras/secrets and less cheap design choices like blind jumps leading to secrets and crap. Also many of the DKC1 bosses can be cheaped out hilariously easily. It had an okay credits fake-out though.
 
M

Marow

Member
The main thing I lack from the older games is the atmosphere. They had this strange, almost sad, feeling which culminated in the second game. The third one is also quite good at generating this atmosphere, though.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
ViewtifulJC said:
DKC3 goes overboard with the gimmicks and collectibles, but its a quality game. DKC1 I think is actively kinda bad. Its pretty amazing how much better DKC2 is, despite coming out just a year later and they're built on so many similar quantities and ideas.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people who prefer DKC1 to... like, anything, really need to revisit it and see how poorly it's aged. Even back in the day it felt a bit loose and sloppy. To go from a mediocre platformer like DKC1 to the extraordinary DKC2 is kind of mind-boggling.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Marow said:
The main thing I lack from the older games is the atmosphere. They had this strange, almost sad, feeling which culminated in the second game. The third one is also quite good at generating this atmosphere, though.
Click to expand...

I think that's something I really appreciate too--DKC2 had great, mostly quite consistent gloomy atmosphere executed really well. Most of the others are all over the place, but aside from the happy pirate level, most of DKC2 is an interesting but comical sort of grim I find very enjoyable.
 
I

ItIsOkBro

Member
I do too. I find the level design to be lacking compared to the originals. This'll be pretty hard to articulate...in Retro's revival, levels are more like segmented pieces of platforms, with a some obstacles on each to get around before jumping to the next segment. Whereas the originals are more like these grand places you feel like you're navigated through instead of going from segment to segment.
 
N

No_Style

Member
I agree with you. I haven't gone back to the original DKC titles though. I know they won't hold up.

I finished DKCR after taking a huge hiatus from it. I then picked up Tropical Freeze thinking that it would be the one that wins me over but... nope. I just couldn't muster the energy to even reach the half way point.

Three things bother me about Retro's games (and they may be irrational but that's how I feel):

1. I don't like the change to the control scheme. I wanted the game to play like the original where Y button was responsible for picking up barrels, running etc. It reminded me of SMW which is why I enjoyed the original control scheme so much.

2. I want to play as the rest of the Kong cast in single player. In the Retro games, they're nothing more than power ups.

3. Too many collectibles. I'm okay with the Kong letters but the puzzle pieces were a bit much. I felt they disrupted the flow and turned the game into a smack, blow and pull everything in sight game. I wish I could just ignore them but... OCD?

Those are the three gripes I have with Retro's Donkey Kong games. I'm not saying they're bad at all; I just couldn't overcome those personal gripes.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Marow said:
The main thing I lack from the older games is the atmosphere. They had this strange, almost sad, feeling which culminated in the second game. The third one is also quite good at generating this atmosphere, though.
Click to expand...
You see glimmers of this atmospheric greatness in Tropical Freeze during the Sawmill Thrill level. Those rainy skies reminded me of DKC2, while the wilderness reminded me of DKC3. I'd love to see Retro Studios return to Crocodile Isle and try to recapture that dark magic. :)
 
J

JoeInky

Member
I think I'd change my ranking and put DKC2 just above TF actually.


TF has no kremlings and they even went with a multi-island world map which would have been the perfect opportunity to bring back crocodile isle as a bonus world.
 
T

tiggerkiddo

Member
I played both of the Retro ones and while they are beautiful looking games, I found them a tad bland and lacking the character and humor from the SNES trilogy (Mainly 2 and 3). I played them recently and found they still held up compared to the Wii/U ones and the music was far superior.
 
F

freeofgreed

Member
I agree with you OP, imo DKCR was a good game because it kept much of the formula in tacked from the original, however I disliked almost every new feature they added (aside from the silhouette levels, I disliked rocket barrels, the lack of underwater stages, not letting Diddy Kong be playable, the hearts system, the NSMB like world map etc..) Gameplay was tight as hell though, i'll give them that.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
No_Style said:
I agree with you. I haven't gone back to the original DKC titles though. I know they won't hold up.

I finished DKCR after taking a huge hiatus from it. I then picked up Tropical Freeze thinking that it would be the one that wins me over but... nope. I just couldn't muster the energy to even reach the half way point.
Click to expand...

DKC2 holds up fine. Only part that doesn't hold up is arguably the art style which I'm personally still fine with, and a lot of people forget that the game is HARD if you've gone soft in the ways of platforming.

Agreed with your other points BTW, forgot to mention that. Collectables in DKCTF are a pain in the ass, even with Squawks some puzzle pieces are hidden a bit too well and I've tried several times to find alternate exits in some levels to no avail.

And I'd prefer to just play as Dixie or even Diddy, Donkey was always my least favorite (or second least if Kiddie is included, who is mostly a DK clone)
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Still haven't played the dkc snes games. Grew up thinking they looked really boring. Then I got dkcr 3d for free on club nintendo this summer and was blown away. I've already bought tropical freeze. I might decide to buy the old games if they wind up on wiiu vc in my region.
 
G

Gilby

Member
I think both of Retro's games are better mechanically and visually (duh) than any of the old DKCs. The old games had better music than returns, but Tropical Freeze's soundtrack is phenomenal. My ONLY major problem with TF was a specific obstacle that's only in the very last "bonus" level, which required trial and error in order to understand the physics of. Otherwise TF is just outstanding.
 
R

Randam

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
I realize this is a very unpopular opinion, but I can't be the only one who feels this way.

When I heard DKC was coming back, and being made by Retro studios, I was ecstatic. I'm a huge fan of the first three games. When I finally got around to playing Returns, and then later, Tropical Freeze, something about the games didn't click with me the same way DKC did. I think the main thing is the atmosphere - in the original three games, the art style and atmosphere was very different. It was more realistic, more oppressive, and less "goofy". The cartoony look and feel of DKCR and TF is very off putting.

Now, I realize Retro did a lot of things right, and did them very well:

-Mechanically, the new games are much more advanced and control more tightly, boss fights are much more involved

-Attention to detail is superb and you can tell the games were crafted with love for the material (seeing other stages in the background is my personal favorite example of this)

-Added their own little quirks, such as the silhouette levels

-Music in Tropical Freeze may be the best in the series

But despite all this, when I look at each set of games and judge them subjectively by the time period and environment that they were released in, I end up preferring the originals. Does anyone else agree with me, and if so, why?

Edit: I realize it's strange to argue for an opinion by defending the games I like less, but I don't dislike Returns or Tropical Freeze. And I can't put my finger on the exact reason I prefer the originals, besides that they were "more enjoyable for their time" and that the art style and atmosphere seemed more appealing.
Click to expand...

same here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I prefer the modern Donkey Kong Country reboots to the SNES originals.... Here's why
Opinion
39
2K
Azelover replied
Weeaboos are now ruining the retro collecting scene in Japan. How can we stop them?
2 3 4 5
234
10K
LRKD replied
The best new IP this generation is still....
2 3
129
7K
VitoNotVito replied
  • Poll
TOTK: Does it make BOTW obsolete?
2
76
3K
Dr. Wilkinson replied
What is your definition of a perfect, timeless video game?
2 3
134
4K
Vol5 replied
Top Bottom