-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
How to become a level designer?
- Thread starter bGanci
- Start date
John Kowalski
Banned
First you should figure out how to post threads in the correct board!
Then, time will tell!
Then, time will tell!
Broder Salsa
Banned
Make a counter strike level or something, I even did that once and since then has put level designer on my cv.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Spend $20 on a month of UE4, start doing tutorials. Make some stuff, then come up with a portfolio. It's actually incredibly easy.
Then I'unno beg for a job.
Then I'unno beg for a job.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
a degree to fall back on is any degree that makes you employable in the future and hopefully something you enjoy like Law, finance, medical, accounting, etc. to be a level designer? I think it's best to get your foot in the door and work your way up the ladder.
learn programming, 3D modelling. draw inspiration from movies, books, art, theatre other games (don't copy or steal too much!) try and make small games on your own and show to people and see what they think.
learn programming, 3D modelling. draw inspiration from movies, books, art, theatre other games (don't copy or steal too much!) try and make small games on your own and show to people and see what they think.
Lots of industry level designers with AAA merits still create maps for Quake in their spare time. I see them played on this channel every so often. I think this is a great resource for aspiring level designers since he analyzes the design choices of the maps pretty thoroughly as he plays through them.
OJdaKiller
Member
All you need to do is train online to tighten up the graphics on level 3.
Purple Cheeto
Member
Make lots of levels. Look at games you like and don't like, map out the levels, the enemy spawns, the pits, the items etc. understand why things are where they are, how they affect pacing, why they are or aren't "fun".
Familiarize yourself in all the big free engines. Unreal, Unity, etc.
Create levels, but always be sure to explain why you created the level how you did. Go into as much detail as possible, down to individual prop placement and lighting. Show drawings you did of the map's concept and how it evolved from its initial stages to the final design.
Now repeat that many times.
Create levels, but always be sure to explain why you created the level how you did. Go into as much detail as possible, down to individual prop placement and lighting. Show drawings you did of the map's concept and how it evolved from its initial stages to the final design.
Now repeat that many times.
Eh, there are quake maps that have come out in the past 5 years or so which are mind boggling considering the whole QBSP procedure. I was only half-kidding.
ZackieChan
Member
Are you speaking from experience? Because I don't think that's actually necessary. The lots and lots part, I mean. I think a few great examples is sufficient for a portfolio.
Anything more is unrealistic, if you want them to be "fully fleshed-out and complete."
Multiple games and platforms is also unrealistic. I don't think anyone cares if they're on different platforms, particularly if you're looking for a job doing a Call of Duty style level. They don't want to see all your awesome Contra-like levels. They want to see how you work in 3D.
OP, I would get involved in the modding community. Do some levels for others, get feedback, etc. Learn what works and what doesn't.
The problem here is that a level designer isn't a 3d modeler, meaning that they are different disciplines. So what exactly is it that you want to do? Design the gameplay or design the art?
JordanN
Banned
Unreal Engine 4: Introduction to Level Design
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/introduction-to-level-design
https://www.unrealengine.com/blog/introduction-to-level-design
hotnheavyload
Banned
Start building levels in Unity or UE4. Lot's of them.
threelights
Member
1 - Play Dark Souls.
Done.
Done.
Making games/mods to show your skills should also help.
Jessie.Bristol
Member
There seem to be a lot of tools out there now to build up a portfolio, like LittleBigPlanet, Project Spark (available on Xbox One, 360, and Windows 8), Unreal Engine 4 (lots of free assets available to practice with), and Unity (same free assets as UE4).
Arma 3 has an awesome editing tool
also: http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/
this is the sort of stuff you learn by doing
also: http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/
this is the sort of stuff you learn by doing
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Start with basics: play a lot of old FPSes, like Doom. Install Doom Builder 2 and make lots of maps based on what you interests you the most (ideas taken from professionally-made content you'd recreate yourself in order to understand the processes developers go through). Once you're getting feedback on your maps, branch out a little, try some mapping for different genres like platformers or arcade racers (Unity is a decent sandbox to start with). Repeat, self-critique (and take others' advice and suggestions), repeat.
ZackieChan
Member
I think you would be laughed out of a building for showing off LBP and Project Spark levels in a portfolio, unless you are going to work for those companies.
You need to show an understanding of a real-world toolset, even though many companies either use their own engine or a modified version of the middleware engines.
TheHollowNight
Member
That's about as far wrong from the truth as you can get. The majority of all level designers I know either found their way into the mainstream industry through mod work or game design degrees. There really isn't a Level Designer degree course. It's something you just do and find out you enjoy.
Also the older 'mapper' connotations of level designer is slowly becoming less relevant as a smaller volume of games require 'levels' in the strict sense any more. I was a 'Skills Designer' on my last job.
Maybe look into the CSGO community map-making stuff or Portal 2 puzzle maker as a good place to start. The Source Engine, though terrible by modern engine standards, has some great simple tools to build levels within. Same with Q3A stuff or old Unreal. Basically most designers my age and above come from a lineage of primarily making maps for BSP engine-based shooters.
Of course you could just grab Unity or UE4, but it's less likely out of the box you'll be able to put something together and just compile within a game and test it like a traditional level. Since you need basic gameplay mechanics to test out level design, and without some C# scripts or Blueprint visual programming knowledge, it would be throwing you into the deep end too quickly.
JordanN
Banned
I'd also suggest playing a lot of Starcraft
I use to make a lot of maps and it was the first game to make me consider the game industry.
Also try Warzone 2100. It's an old game but it's been released as freeware now. Definitely try making stuff in that as well.
One more. Here are some Level Design concepts for the first Crash Bandicoot
http://www.crashmania.net/crash-bandicoot/art/concepts_davidsiller/
I use to make a lot of maps and it was the first game to make me consider the game industry.
Also try Warzone 2100. It's an old game but it's been released as freeware now. Definitely try making stuff in that as well.
One more. Here are some Level Design concepts for the first Crash Bandicoot
http://www.crashmania.net/crash-bandicoot/art/concepts_davidsiller/
Dental Plan
Member
Download unity and go through the tutorials.
Also the most important piece of advice. Make sure you can take constructive criticism. If you aren't willing to compromise then you wont get far. That is if you plan on working with a team.
I've worked with people who cracked when it came to people criticizing their work.
Also the most important piece of advice. Make sure you can take constructive criticism. If you aren't willing to compromise then you wont get far. That is if you plan on working with a team.
I've worked with people who cracked when it came to people criticizing their work.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Level design is so damn hard. It's one of the spots I get stuck at every time I try to make a game. I couldn't tell you where to even start.
Jessie.Bristol
Member
The OP did say Level Design. Within those games and their toolsets, you can show a good mindset of how to design a level. Obviously, using either Unreal Engine 3/4 or Unity is an infinitely better option to go for if you want to present examples in an interview.
Some great advice so far. I'd definitely suggest picking up UE4. It's a pretty great engine and you can cancel your sub and legally keep that version of the engine forever.
Get to grips with the engine, follow tutorials to familiarise yourself with the basic tools. You don't want your ideas to be held back by constant googling when you can help it. Definitely then dive in and just create, iterate, evaluate, repeat. Definitely do some reading though, there are some good resources out there on Gamasutra, WorldOfLevelDesign, level-design.org etc. Hope some of this helps.. I can't sleep!
Professional Level Designer here for a AAA company. I have to say I'm incredibly happy that you're looking to BE a Level Designer and not seeing Level Design as a stepping stone to the "REAL" job. These people usually get weeded out fast at companies that actually care about the end product.
Things that got me in the door were the following.
1. DESIGNING LEVELS not just creating them. Just because you make a cool looking map doesn't mean that it will play well. You should pick up lots of books on level design and game design and devour them.
2. Having Optimized levels - This is a big one most people ignore. The way you design and decorate your levels has a astronomical impact on performance. Doesn't matter if you have the best map in the world if it runs horribly.
2. Portfolio - Have an easy to navigate portfolio that showcases your best work. Have links to download your levels if possible.
3. Get involved on Level Design Forums - This is where we all hang out. This is where you're going to get your feedback. And you DO need feedback. You will need people playing your work extensively to make sure you're creating the best levels you can.
4. Make a game with a team of people - There is a modern catch 22 in getting a career in games. People want proof that you can do the job before you'll be considered for the job. In other words, a finished product. Nobody wants to take a risk on someone who says they can do the work vs somebody with a proven track record. Get involved with a team to make a game. School is great for this but if you put together a team and release a small game outside of school it looks even better.
5. A Degree - My school really helped me get the job I have today. They had an established network that in combination with my portfolio allowed me to stand out. If nothing else I would recommend a degree in game design simply to develop your soft skills and learn how to work within an established pipeline. You need to know how to work in a team and there's no better way to do that then making games and projects at school with other like-minded individuals. Just don't expect the degree to get you the job. It won't.
6. Learn a variety of tools - There's a lot of tools out there. It's good to learn some of the big ones, such as Unreal, Unity, Radiant, etc etc. You'l also want to learn Maya or 3ds Max.
7. Take notes on the levels you play - You need to be able to articulate what makes a good level. A good way to get into this is to take apart the maps you enjoy and the ones you don't. Find out what makes an engagement fun, figure out the importance of pacing, balance etc.
I'll pop back in and chime in with more later but I've got to get back to work! Hope this gives some food for thought. I'll come back with some practical things you can do to get started next. I don't want to overload you with trying to do too many things at once.
Things that got me in the door were the following.
1. DESIGNING LEVELS not just creating them. Just because you make a cool looking map doesn't mean that it will play well. You should pick up lots of books on level design and game design and devour them.
2. Having Optimized levels - This is a big one most people ignore. The way you design and decorate your levels has a astronomical impact on performance. Doesn't matter if you have the best map in the world if it runs horribly.
2. Portfolio - Have an easy to navigate portfolio that showcases your best work. Have links to download your levels if possible.
3. Get involved on Level Design Forums - This is where we all hang out. This is where you're going to get your feedback. And you DO need feedback. You will need people playing your work extensively to make sure you're creating the best levels you can.
4. Make a game with a team of people - There is a modern catch 22 in getting a career in games. People want proof that you can do the job before you'll be considered for the job. In other words, a finished product. Nobody wants to take a risk on someone who says they can do the work vs somebody with a proven track record. Get involved with a team to make a game. School is great for this but if you put together a team and release a small game outside of school it looks even better.
5. A Degree - My school really helped me get the job I have today. They had an established network that in combination with my portfolio allowed me to stand out. If nothing else I would recommend a degree in game design simply to develop your soft skills and learn how to work within an established pipeline. You need to know how to work in a team and there's no better way to do that then making games and projects at school with other like-minded individuals. Just don't expect the degree to get you the job. It won't.
6. Learn a variety of tools - There's a lot of tools out there. It's good to learn some of the big ones, such as Unreal, Unity, Radiant, etc etc. You'l also want to learn Maya or 3ds Max.
7. Take notes on the levels you play - You need to be able to articulate what makes a good level. A good way to get into this is to take apart the maps you enjoy and the ones you don't. Find out what makes an engagement fun, figure out the importance of pacing, balance etc.
I'll pop back in and chime in with more later but I've got to get back to work! Hope this gives some food for thought. I'll come back with some practical things you can do to get started next. I don't want to overload you with trying to do too many things at once.
I don't know about specific degrees, but I would like to give you a specific mindset so you can learned a lot from many games. You have to see level design entirely different, taking cue and thinking what makes them so good. Playing games with applauded level design and make visit to level designers forum should really help you.
That's what I did with writing, just replace book with games and lever designer with writing.
Straight tips from the professionals, you're in for a treat OP.
hotnheavyload
Banned
Some awesome advice for OP and others including myself, thank you.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thu7hocWd2s
If you are interested in learning the Source engine perhaps for csgo or tf2, which commonly feature user made maps as part of the main game, I'd look at this guy. He's fast and funny.
If you are interested in learning the Source engine perhaps for csgo or tf2, which commonly feature user made maps as part of the main game, I'd look at this guy. He's fast and funny.
Any forums in particular you would recommend?
Wow thank you for taking the time to respond. For number 3 are there any specific forums you would recommend? Thanks again for your help. It means a lot.
ZackieChan
Member
I used to hang out on HL2world and Modsonline, brehs. Even did a tutorial on how to do cel shading in Quake 3 engine. Those were good days (don't go to those sites, there's probably much better communities now.
Can't stress this enough. This applies to virtually every facet of the industry. It's the same deal for e.g. music. No one really cares if you make kickass remixes or have an amazing composition portfolio as much as they want to know if you can see a project through from start to end. It's easy to cherry pick and compose what you want to. It's not so easy to have to do -everything- a soundtrack needs including working with the audio director on iterative feedback and fielding criticism.
This is why being involved in completed mods or fan projects or indie undertakings are as important, if not moreso than a good portfolio
Is UE4 usable without any programming knowledge?
foolishoptimist
Member
What you really want is a broad range of game dev skills. There won't always be a 'Level Designer' job advertised. A lot of the time, the person who designs levels will also work on 2-3 other parts over the course of the project.
So follow the previous advice of getting an engine, and follow tutorials to learn it and build something. There's a bit of science and art to level design, and it all has to feedback to the gameplay of whatever game your working on.
As far as degrees go, anything in the realm of software design is going to be useful beyond games.
There are lots of interactive online resources to help you learn programming(Unity uses javascript), you don't necessarily need a degree to be able to start playing around with engines, but you will likely need programming skills.
So follow the previous advice of getting an engine, and follow tutorials to learn it and build something. There's a bit of science and art to level design, and it all has to feedback to the gameplay of whatever game your working on.
As far as degrees go, anything in the realm of software design is going to be useful beyond games.
There are lots of interactive online resources to help you learn programming(Unity uses javascript), you don't necessarily need a degree to be able to start playing around with engines, but you will likely need programming skills.
Iced_Eagle
Member
For level design, yes. Granted, you'll almost certainly need to end up learning scripting to really differentiate your levels, but the blueprint system is relatively easy so you don't need to hop into C++ code if you don't want to. You'll just need to get creative about how you set up your blueprints since you won't have the knowledge of creating new modules to use.
The one downside is that since UE4 is newer, there's a lot less documentation than if it were a more mature engine. On the plus side, UE4 skills are something which will be highly sought after so if you work hard and create a good portfolio, it should get you noticed.
Heck, you could start poking around the new Unreal Tournament they're working on and start protoyping levels for it now. It would be really cool, and a great showcase if your levels were pulled into the main game!
AaronWatermelon
Member
Sure is! Unreal 4's a fantastic place to start. There's enough tutorials to learn the basics, and the blueprint system (visual scripting) is pretty intuitive.
OP, if you want to be a level designer, I'd recommend getting UE4 and playing with the landscaping tool. Start throwing around BSPs (untextured little boxes) and see what sticks. The best way to learn is playing around at your own pace.
ThatsMytrunks
Member
Absolutely. The tutorials are very easy to follow. I picked up enough to recreate Block Fort from Mario Kart 64 down to its textures in under 8 hours.
http://thatsmytrunks.itch.io/blockfort