Support NeoGAF

[ArkkAngel007]

It means I have no shot at this deal, as I wasn't in a position to spend cash on another system and without a BC path I'm not prepared to trade in my Xbox 360 and lose my digital titles.

That still doesn't really speak on how the price going back up is a trust issue. People miss out on deals all the time, including within this industry. Never before the Wii U and XBO have I seen people so quick to pull the betrayal card at bundles and deals coming about, and have never until now when a temporary, as advertised, deal expired.

If you're talking about in comparison to PS4 the answer is the sells dropping back down to where it was before & PS4 selling 100K - 500K more every month world wide.

Why though? Why would PS4 get such a substantial lead again? With the system now having been given great consumer exposure where most, if not all, of that pre-launch bullshit being put in the past, what is now holding the XBO back?

• PS4 is getting The Order 1886 and Bloodborne. However, one (Bloodborne) is a fairly niche game and The Order can go any direction in quality. Sony also has to market the hell out of them to the wider market than enthusiasts like us, something they are generally terrible at.
• Microsoft has marketing exclusivity on Turtle Rock's Evolve. Now, I'll lead off by saying that game needs a strong market push in order to be successful as there hasn't been much done with it outside of tradeshows and cons. But as evidenced by this last holiday Microsoft does know how to market and can do something similar as they did with Assassin's Creed Unity (minus the bundle advantage...so far). Doubt the impact in sales though, let alone for driving a system.
• PS4 had momentum between the lead in sales and people buying what people they knew were buying. Now that XBO had a surge, the adoption rate should be higher as people seek to connect with their friends online as they move forward. (EDIT: PS4 deserved its lead to all the shit Microsoft pulled, cheaper price, and hardware advantage. This point was merely about how a sale lead in consoles tends to lead to more sales due to people going where people they know are. If their friends have PS4s, a person is going to get a PS4 instead of an XBO.)
• As of right now, XBO is still leading in marketing and exclusives. By February this may change depending if SCEA marketing has found its balls for the sake of its upcoming exclusives. Edit: Didn't take into account PSN exclusives. PS4 does have a distinct edge overall in exclusives (though retail exclusives I've found stronger so far for XBO).
• Framerate and resolution don't have quite the same pull as it does on enthusiast boards. Most people will go where people they know are and where the games they want to play are and supported. The differences now between the systems are nowhere near as severe as they used to be and XBO has the stronger content. Only Destiny is giving PS4 a notable, if still minor, content lead in 3rd party exclusive content.

The $399 XBO vs $399 PS4 before this holiday is no longer equally applicable given how much the libraries and consumer exposure has changed.

XBO will fall behind. But I'm not convinced it will be to the former numbers.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Why would anyone buy a PS4 now? People buy what they want at a price they can afford. These comments about "waiting another year until MS gets really desperate" are stupid and come from people who clearly have no real interest in the console.

Both at $399 the PS4 is simply the better deal and it's shown by months of results where there's simply more interest in a $399 PS4 than a $399 xbone sans kinect for most of the year.

That said, it doesn't make sense for MS to keep burning money to gain market share during the slow months where they aren't likely to make much gains, no company would be willing to take a haircut on hardware indefinitely. They're still losing Europe by a significant margin with little chance of a turn around and they're already down to triple digits in Japan. Their next big uptick will probably be around the Halo 5 launch, in the meantime the PS4 will probably start to gain some distance again in NA.

 

[Jomjom]

$329? How long did that last? How long and widespread was the $50 gift card? I thought it was mostly $349 with the bundle.

Pretty damn long actually. Anyone who wanted a deal with a gift card could easily have gotten in on it in both November and December. These weren't "doorbusters" or 5 per store or anything like that.

 

[rokkerkory]

It was a sale, sales do end.

It's the slow season now so people aren't going to spend.

 

[W.S.]

I excepted the drop in price and all, but does the xbox one even have any exclusives coming out of the next four to five months to actually keep sales going?

Microsoft will have a few console exclusives like State of Decay: Year-One Survival Edition and Ori but they're going to be relying mostly on exclusive DLC (Storm Island, The Mystery of Mooil Rig, etc) or multiplatform games to carry them through before their bigger games like Fable Legends, Quantum, and Halo 5. That being said, anyone who just recently received an Xbox One has a solid library of exclusives + GwG games to play in between now and then so it's not like there's nothing to play in the interim.

For those who missed out on the discounted bundles, if you're a savvy consumer you already know about daily deals on IGN or CAG since those sources usually have inside scoops on good deals. They're probably not going to be on the same level as Amazon/Best Buy/MS store's added gift card incentives but at this point it's not going to be all that hard to find a good deal on an Xbox One.

 

[jelly]

Microsoft can't be too pleased that Xbox One can only compete well by undercutting PS4 and bundling games. When the PS4 gets a price cut will Xbox One still need to undercut and bundle to beat them ?

With such similar hardware, it's logical to think the margins are obviously less for Microsoft in comparison to Sony if they undercut them and tear downs suggest the Xbox One is actually more expensive already to make. Microsoft are not going to have a good time.

 

[Biker19]

It was a sale, sales do end.

It's the slow season now so people aren't going to spend.

Stuff like tax returns would beg to differ.

 

[EatMyFace]

XBO SLIM W/ BLACK OPS 3 = $299
I can see this happening.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Tax returns would beg to differ.

That's not until end of March/April though for most people.

January also has a lot of refund/returns that could lead to some minor boosts. But it's still one of the worst periods next to the dead of Summer.

 

[Derpyduck]

Stuff like tax returns would beg to differ.

And history doesn't lie. It's the slow time for console sales, tax returns or not.

 

[Curufinwe]

Stuff like tax returns would beg to differ.

Look at previous January NPDs.

 

[Y2Kev]

[*]PS4 had momentum between the lead in sales and people buying what people they knew were buying.

ok sure

 

[TomShoe]

snip

Are you talking about the US/UK? Because the post you're replying to is about WW. Barring something major happening, I don't expect Xbox One to be competitive outside its main markets. The rest of the world doesn't care about XBO, not to mention Sony's 2015 lineup looking very strong and diverse.

 

[foltzie1]

So "affect" wasn't a typo?

It said defect before

 

[ph1l0z0ph3r]

Look at previous January NPDs.

Shouldnt most people be receiving their tax returns in Feb to March not January?

 

[truly101]

I'm surprised they raised it back up. Seems like its happened before that a console manufacturer lowered the console price for a "sale" and said sale never ended.

Both will be sub 350 before this coming holiday season.

 

[onQ123]

That still doesn't really speak on how the price going back up is a trust issue. People miss out on deals all the time, including within this industry. Never before the Wii U and XBO have I seen people so quick to pull the betrayal card at bundles and deals coming about, and have never until now when a temporary, as advertised, deal expired.


Why though? Why would PS4 get such a substantial lead again? With the system now having been given great consumer exposure where most, if not all, of that pre-launch bullshit being put in the past, what is now holding the system back?

• PS4 is getting The Order 1886 and Bloodborne. However, one (Bloodborne) is a fairly niche game and The Order can go any direction in quality. Sony also has to market the hell out of them to the wider market than enthusiasts like us, something they are generally terrible at.
• Microsoft has marketing exclusivity on Turtle Rock's Evolve. Now, I'll lead off by saying that game needs a strong market push in order to be successful as there hasn't been much done with it outside of tradeshows and cons. But as evidenced by this last holiday Microsoft does know how to market and can do something similar as they did with Assassin's Creed Unity (minus the bundle advantage...so far).
• PS4 had momentum between the lead in sales and people buying what people they knew were buying. Now that XBO had a surge, the adoption rate should be higher as people seek to connect with their friends online as they move forward.
• As of right now, XBO is still leading in marketing and exclusives. By February this may change depending if SCEA marketing has found its balls for the sake of its upcoming exclusives.

You do understand that PS4 has been selling around 1 million every month at $399 (and whatever price it is everywhere else) right?

Xbox One going back up to $399 could actually make things worse for them in the next few months. so say the sells drop down to 350K a month world wide while PS4 is selling 1 million a month world wide for the next 4 or 5 months.

PS4 would be at 20 something million units sold while Xbox One is slowly moving around 12 or 13 million.

 

[Occam]

It said defect before

LOL!

(http://www.vocabulary.com/articles/chooseyourwords/affect-effect/)

 

[Xando]

Why though? Why would PS4 get such a substantial lead again? With the system now having been given great consumer exposure where most, if not all, of that pre-launch bullshit being put in the past, what is now holding the XBO back?

You are quoting a post about WW sales, MS will never be competitive WW unless Sony fucks up (like PS3) or they finally start to make a console that isn't primarly for english speaking folks.


Imo Evolve is so overhyped it reminds me of Titanfall (Not saying Titanfall is bad but it was overhyped).

 

[NossEntertainment]

lol yeah i thought it was gonna be permanent.

 

[W.S.]

I'm surprised they raised it back up. Seems like its happened before that a console manufacturer lowered the console price for a "sale" and said sale never ended.

Both will be sub 350 before this coming holiday season.

I do expect a price cut on 500GB models so as to introduce higher storage models with the replaced $399 price. They might even bundle some first party games with those various One's if they want to be more aggressive.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

You do understand that PS4 has been selling around 1 million every month at $399 (and whatever price it is everywhere else) right?

Xbox One going back up to $399 could actually make things worse for them in the next few months. so say the sells drop down to 350K a month world wide while PS4 is selling 1 million a month world wide for the next 4 or 5 months.

PS4 would be at 20 something million units sold while Xbox One is slowly moving around 12 or 13 million.

You are quoting a post about WW sales, MS will never be competitive WW unless Sony fucks up (like PS3) or they finally start to make a console that isn't primarly for english speaking folks.

I don't understand why WW sales were being discussed in the first place. Of course XBO isn't going to be competitive anywhere else. I shouldn't have even been able to make the mistake of walking into it.

And how is Evolve overhyped? It won some meaningless rewards at E3 that people only threw a fit over because it wasn't given to Bloodborne (not applicable) or The Witcher 3. Press had been ho-hum about it with the exception of IGN until recently, and even then it's not much different than any other game.

ok sure

Obviously there were more factors. Bad press on Microsoft being chief among them. But I already addressed that in another bullet point, if you weren't just trying to take a quote out of context to be cheeky, Kev.

 

[Miles X]

You do understand that PS4 has been selling around 1 million every month at $399 (and whatever price it is everywhere else) right?

Xbox One going back up to $399 could actually make things worse for them in the next few months. so say the sells drop down to 350K a month world wide while PS4 is selling 1 million a month world wide for the next 4 or 5 months.

PS4 would be at 20 something million units sold while Xbox One is slowly moving around 12 or 13 million.

Who the heck is even talking about WW? XB1 hasn't been winning WW and never will, the price only went down (and back up) in the US. This is blatantly conversation about how things will fare in the US.

 

[Biker19]

Are you talking about the US/UK? Because the post you're replying to is about WW. Barring something major happening, I don't expect Xbox One to be competitive outside its main markets. The rest of the world doesn't care about XBO, not to mention Sony's 2015 lineup looking very strong and diverse.

You are quoting a post about WW sales, MS will never be competitive WW unless Sony fucks up (like PS3) or they finally start to make a console that isn't primarily for english speaking folks.

These. Most of the worldwide sales will go directly towards PS4, giving the system an even higher install base than with last gen where Microsoft at least had mindshare with Europe on Xbox 360. And that'll matter more to 3rd party publishers worldwide, they won't care about Microsoft scoring big in one region.

Microsoft can't just depend on the U.S. to carry them afloat (Not mentioning UK because it's small fry compared to both U.S. & Europe). It's not even guaranteed that they'll reach the same 47+ million owners in the U.S. like they had with the Xbox 360, & that took about 9 years just to reach that amount of owners in that same region.

 

[foltzie1]

That still doesn't really speak on how the price going back up is a trust issue. People miss out on deals all the time, including within this industry. Never before the Wii U and XBO have I seen people so quick to pull the betrayal card at bundles and deals coming about, and have never until now when a temporary, as advertised, deal expired.

I'm not personally making any sort of betrayal argument. Though I certainly understand a certain amount if dismay at not making the change permanent. I can't think of another example of a manufacturer increasing the price of a console.

But it has set my anchor point at least $349 and I will not spend $400 on an Xbox One. I also expect to get a Kinect in the bundle, otherwise I will not bite (what can I say I like Dance Central). However, this is just me and my personal opinion on the matter. Are there more like me?

What will be interesting is if the sales see a plummet in January as compared to the PS4.

If sales hold steady than Microsoft has executed a great bit of marketing, if not then this is just the latest in the string of marketing and operational failures.

 

[bishoptl]

ok sure

Fanboy wank

 

[metalslimer]

You know I was also pretty shocked when I saw the Xbox 360 price. I saw one model for 249. It's insane that the two consoles were less than 100 dollars apart.

 

[Derpyduck]

Who the heck is even talking about WW? XB1 hasn't been winning WW and never will, the price only went down (and back up) in the US. This is blatantly conversation about how things will fare in the US.

People who lack basic reading comprehension skills.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Fanboy wank

WTH Bishoptl? You know damn well I'm not an XBO (or any) fanboy. Didn't realize Kev taking one quote out of context changes all that. Or is it false that PS4 leading in sales tends to translate to greater sale adoption due to online connectivity?

Teaches me to enter sales threads I guess and trying to have a discussion. At least some folks, non-mods mind you, are able to argue me (thanks to those who highlighted I was addressing WW sales on accident) without delving into that type of bullshit.

 

[Verendus]

You are quoting a post about WW sales, MS will never be competitive WW unless Sony fucks up (like PS3) or they finally start to make a console that isn't primarly for english speaking folks.


Imo Evolve is so overhyped it reminds me of Titanfall (Not saying Titanfall is bad but it was overhyped).

Let me tell you a story.

Edit:

The End.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

[*]Microsoft has marketing exclusivity on Turtle Rock's Evolve. Now, I'll lead off by saying that game needs a strong market push in order to be successful as there hasn't been much done with it outside of tradeshows and cons. But as evidenced by this last holiday Microsoft does know how to market and can do something similar as they did with Assassin's Creed Unity (minus the bundle advantage...so far).

Oh yeah they know how to market just like they did with Sunset Overdrive.

 

[Y2Kev]

I don't understand why WW sales were being discussed in the first place. Of course XBO isn't going to be competitive anywhere else. I shouldn't have even been able to make the mistake of walking into it.

And how is Evolve overhyped? It won some meaningless rewards at E3 that people only threw a fit over because it wasn't given to Bloodborne (not applicable) or The Witcher 3. Press had been ho-hum about it with the exception of IGN until recently, and even then it's not much different than any other game.


Obviously there were more factors. Bad press on Microsoft being chief among them. But I already addressed that in another bullet point, if you weren't just trying to take a quote out of context to be cheeky, Kev.

I'm not being cheeky. Happy to quote your entire post if you want.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I'll happily eat crow when MS proves they can sell at this price. Going back to $399 is going to drastically hurt sales.

 

[El-Pistolero]

It looks as if MS is anticipating a better demand despite the price returning to normal, as a direct result of the greater acceptance of the product in the US. I sill think they might ride that wave (and it was quite the wave in North America) until February...

 

[mrklaw]

WTH Bishoptl? You know damn well I'm not an XBO (or any) fanboy. Didn't realize Kev taking one quote out of context changes all that. Or is it false that PS4 leading in sales tends to translate to greater sale adoption due to online connectivity?

Teaches me to enter sales threads I guess and trying to have a discussion. At least some folks, non-mods mind you, are able to argue me (thanks to those who highlighted I was addressing WW sales on accident) without delving into that type of bullshit.

You said

As of right now, XBO is still leading in marketing and exclusives. By February this may change depending if SCEA marketing has found its balls for the sake of its upcoming exclusives.

Trotting out the 'leading in exclusives' thing is nonsense. Sony has more exclusives on PS4 already, and definitely will over the next few months as it actually has games coming out in the first half.

 

[bishoptl]

WTH Bishoptl? You know damn well I'm not an XBO (or any) fanboy. Didn't realize Kev taking one quote out of context changes all that. Or is it false that PS4 leading in sales tends to translate to greater sale adoption due to online connectivity?

Teaches me to enter sales threads I guess and trying to have a discussion. At least some folks, non-mods mind you, are able to argue me (thanks to those who highlighted I was addressing WW sales on accident) without delving into that type of bullshit.

uh huh

Context was accurate and calling Bloodborne niche in one sentence and in the very next breath promoting Evolve as some sort of non-niche ammo in the exclusivity wars is transparent/entertaining/eyebrow-raising/take your pick. Add in your hot take on exclusives overall and I got what I needed from your post.

Red names being the issue? FOH with that bs

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Oh yeah they know how to market just like they did with Sunset Overdrive.

Idk how that was marketed, thus why I didn't mention it.

Sony did good with Destiny, but my point is that Sony is generally terrible in marketing their first party. The only ones that I've seen getting any respectful marketing have been Little Big Planet and The Last of Us.

 

[slavesnyder]

They made their decision and time will tell if this was the right one. I do not think so, but I am ready to be convinced otherwise.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Oh yeah they know how to market just like they did with Sunset Overdrive.

They marketed Sunset Overdrive very well considering it's the kind of game that won't appeal to many people. Evolve looks like an easier sell, though. MS also seems to bundle third party games, so Evolve could get a bunch of sales just from bundles if MS chooses to that path. I still doubt the game will be a hit, though.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

Looking forward a slim version releasing at $350 in the near future then. Til then...heh.

 

[spwolf]

[*]PS4 is getting The Order 1886 and Bloodborne. However, one (Bloodborne) is a fairly niche game and The Order can go any direction in quality. Sony also has to market the hell out of them to the wider market than enthusiasts like us, something they are generally terrible at.
[*]Microsoft has marketing exclusivity on Turtle Rock's Evolve. .

so Bloodborne is Niche and Order might be crap but MS has "marketing exclusivity" on "Evolve"...

Are you really comparing first party exclusives with "marketing exclusivity" of multiplatform game?

 

[JayEH]

Knew this would happen. No need to keep the price that low after Christmas.

 

[slavesnyder]

And history doesn't lie. It's the slow time for console sales, tax returns or not.

Sure, but with putting up the price again it could become a verrrrry slow season for XBoxOne vs a slow season for PS4.

 

[Game4life]

Idk how that was marketed, thus why I didn't mention it.

Sony did good with Destiny, but my point is that Sony is generally terrible in marketing their first party. The only ones that I've seen getting any respectful marketing have been Little Big Planet and The Last of Us. So I don't think questioning Bloodborne and The Order 1886 getting decent marketing is unfounded.

Ryse?Horizon?Sunset Overdrive? How much did they sell vs Sony's first party? You need to back up your argument with sales numbers and some facts if you are stating that Sony's marketing this generation is behind MS.

 

[Conduit]

[*]As of right now, XBO is still leading in marketing and exclusives. By February this may change depending if SCEA marketing has found its balls for the sake of its upcoming exclusives.

Well, i'm pretty sure they don't.

 

[TheLegendary]

I need a PS4 price drop this year so i was hoping they would keep the price down. There will be some sku update soon to "reintroduce value" soon.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

uh huh

Context was accurate and calling Bloodborne niche in one sentence and in the very next breath promoting Evolve as some sort of non-niche ammo in the exclusivity wars is transparent/entertaining/eyebrow-raising/take your pick. Add in your hot take on exclusives overall and I got what I needed from your post.

Red names being the issue? FOH with that bs

I never said being mods is an issue. I just expect those with that distinction, especially Kev who usually puts out some of the more insightful posts on the board, to actually discuss things than basically do a drive by. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

And I don't have much faith in Evolve. It's Alpha's were IMO mishandled and displayed what sounds to be the worst mode in the game. It's not a pick-up-and-play friendly as L4D, and the asymmetric gameplay can be just as much of a bane, if not moreso, as a boon. But if Microsoft is at least marketing it out and Sony treats The Order/Bloodborne as Tearaway in marketing than The Last of Us, that puts out mindshare for the XBO. I'm not saying that will actually be successful or not. People can pass up Evolve as I said and Evolve isn't exactly hot shit here on GAF to where I question how it will do for the core market, to where I know Bloodborne will do better.

As for my niche comment, I didn't realize FROMsoft games were big things in the US. If that was my mistake, than just tell/correct me.

Edit: I'm speaking retail, not PSN in exclusives. I honestly didn't really think about that and feel stupid for it. How impactful that is, I don't know.

Ryse?Horizon?Sunset Overdrive? How much did they sell vs Sony's first party? You need to back up your argument with sales numbers and some facts if you are stating that Sony's marketing this generation is behind MS.

I've just seen more marketing between Dead Rising 3 (now on PC), Titanfall (PC, 360), and Assassin's Creed Unity than I have between Infamous Second Son, LB3, and Destiny (which the last two were given good marketing).

I'm mainly coming from looking at how Tearaway, Vita, and last gen on how Sony tends to market their products, not to mention how The Order has been mostly handled. I do hope Bloodborne and The Order 1886 get great campaigns. That doesn't mean they will though.

 

[MakeMeFeelAlive]

The biggest promblem i see for MS is why would anyone buy the Xbox one now? It was 350 for months, even 329 at places for a good amount of time. Just wait till next holiday season. So has ms created an xbox culture where peepee will just hold off buying one waiting for the next super deal?

 

[geordiemp]

[*]Framerate and resolution don't have quite the same pull as it does on enthusiast boards. .
[/LIST]

The $399 XBO vs $399 PS4 before this holiday is no longer equally applicable given how much the libraries and consumer exposure has changed.

The Ps4 is the stronger console, and at similar prices is why it outsold Xb1 every month is my best guess.

IF we believed the Enthusiast boards everybody would be playing Bayonneta on the WiiU LOL...

Everybody knows the Ps4 is the 'slightly technically' stronger hardware and runs 'SOME' games better, go ask an 11 year old (my son is 11 LOL). He might not understand why - this is social media and word of mouth and why Ps4 sells well IMO....So I explained my understanding of sales trends the way I see it....

So Xb1 had sale and got cheap, it sold well. If price parity comes back, things will probably revert to what they were before November and black Friday (but who knows, we would be rich if we could predict the future).

 

[Facism]

Ark's bolded edit about mods shitposting lol