TheLaughingStock
Member
Jeff have you ever thought about why hundreds of millions of people don't move their PCs to the living room even though they've had the capability to hook them up to the TV for years?
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The death of the Game Console
- Thread starter jeff_rigby
- Start date
dark_prinny
Banned
Consoles are far from dead Jeff.
YianGaruga
Banned
I'll admit I understood little of the technical details in the OP, but the reasoning seems to be that because PC hardware will be on par with things that consoles are currently able to do, they won't be necessary anymore?
Couldn't all that future tech be used in future console generations instead of HTPCs? There are so many other factors that I just don't see how OP came to his conclusion.
Couldn't all that future tech be used in future console generations instead of HTPCs? There are so many other factors that I just don't see how OP came to his conclusion.
drotahorror
Member
I don't think any PC gamer feels like consoles are a threat haha.
Anyways, I do think consoles will die sooner rather than later. Eventually we'll have no need for any type of hardware in terms of a set top box-like console and a controller.
Oyashrio-Sama
Member
Unless I'm mistaken you're forgetting the two biggest reasons why consoles have been popular: price and uniformity. For $400 I bought a system that will play games that came out last year and will play those coming out 5 years from now, without having to worry about having to upgrade because most games that come out are designed around the specs of the system.
from a performance point of view, you're basically just saying that entry level PCs eventually catch up to console performance. I'm not sure that's news.
HBM might be interesting but that technology will likewise be available to consoles that come out in a few years time, and the cycle will repeat.
I could see consoles moving to a shorter lifecycle, using BC as a feature now they are both on x86. While my mum might be considering buying a PS4 when it hits £150, I'd be buying a PS5 at £350 for better performance, but they'd play the same games.
if SteamOS doesn't take off, you still have the fundamental problem of accessibility for the mainstream
HBM might be interesting but that technology will likewise be available to consoles that come out in a few years time, and the cycle will repeat.
I could see consoles moving to a shorter lifecycle, using BC as a feature now they are both on x86. While my mum might be considering buying a PS4 when it hits £150, I'd be buying a PS5 at £350 for better performance, but they'd play the same games.
if SteamOS doesn't take off, you still have the fundamental problem of accessibility for the mainstream
Nope - disagree...
Fixed hardware is the main reason they will continue to exist for 3 key reasons:
1. You talk about "to the metal" but as there will always be a lot of abstraction on a non-unified platform. You only talk about the commonalities on the "latest hardware" - not the stuff which is in most PCs. So delay the "consoles are dead" until we all get those in a few years time... when the standards will have changed again... rinse and repeat.
2. Then, what level are you coding to? Without fixed hardware you have to decide a lowest common denominator to get your audience and offer anyone who has "spent the bucks" some gameplay irrelevant graphics frills.
3. The "annoying OS" which requires driver & security updates all day every day... which are great "when they work". But often cock up for no apparent reason. My New Razer Blade was laid low by Windows updates twice because I had the audacity to install a hardware driver BEFORE a certain windows update. 3 days of gaming lost to 2 rebuilds (with 80Gb of downloads) which most users would fail to be able to do. And even then I had to manually install new WiFi drivers because the ones that come with it were goosed. All that is in "easily supported" fixed laptop hardware!
Then there is the thing which us EU/US peeps forgot about. Console hardware is eventually targeted at some 1st works & many 2nd world countries when it hits "commodity prices" and where network infrastructure may be sparse. PC's are a struggle to all but the enthusiast community in these places.
A PC-only future is a delusional fantasy which will keep consoles going for decades.
Fixed hardware is the main reason they will continue to exist for 3 key reasons:
1. You talk about "to the metal" but as there will always be a lot of abstraction on a non-unified platform. You only talk about the commonalities on the "latest hardware" - not the stuff which is in most PCs. So delay the "consoles are dead" until we all get those in a few years time... when the standards will have changed again... rinse and repeat.
2. Then, what level are you coding to? Without fixed hardware you have to decide a lowest common denominator to get your audience and offer anyone who has "spent the bucks" some gameplay irrelevant graphics frills.
3. The "annoying OS" which requires driver & security updates all day every day... which are great "when they work". But often cock up for no apparent reason. My New Razer Blade was laid low by Windows updates twice because I had the audacity to install a hardware driver BEFORE a certain windows update. 3 days of gaming lost to 2 rebuilds (with 80Gb of downloads) which most users would fail to be able to do. And even then I had to manually install new WiFi drivers because the ones that come with it were goosed. All that is in "easily supported" fixed laptop hardware!
Then there is the thing which us EU/US peeps forgot about. Console hardware is eventually targeted at some 1st works & many 2nd world countries when it hits "commodity prices" and where network infrastructure may be sparse. PC's are a struggle to all but the enthusiast community in these places.
A PC-only future is a delusional fantasy which will keep consoles going for decades.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Trustzone processors in the XB1, PS4 and Kaveri - future PCs and Vidipath (DLNA CVP2) support in the PS4, XB1, all future PCs and ARM STBs eliminate any closed ecosystem for IPTV. This was the first point in the OP. Games and other media can be protected in all Vidpath platforms.
Yes, "Microsoft and Sony view their machines as long term investments in a war for being the prime middle men of all media consumption in the living room". They have a head start and platforms that can support being a MEDIA HUB. They have a future PC two years in advance of the market.
Windows 10 rumored to be free, all free features will be downloadable apps like seen in Windows 7 but able to run on all platforms. A Xbox app for the Xbox Ecosystem and the ability to stream games from and to PCs and the Xbox1 and to all Vidipath platforms. For all the doubters, what is the difference between a future PC running Windows 10 and a Xbox 1 running Windows 10 (after DX12 is released)?
I actually have an xbox one connected to the TV in my living room. I imagine thats the same difference for most people.
Technology might enable a lot of things, but it doesn't automatically lead to adoption.
Goldrusher
Member
Literally every single one of your predictions has been wrong, and this thread is no exception.
King of Custard
Member
Why have you not factored in the people who already have a console? Are these people going to trade them in because of a change in O.S.'s and processors. The average Joe don't give a shit about this stuff.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Let's see how Steam machines do before jumping to any conclusions.
Consoles represent a certain "standard" in terms of form and function, and to replace them you need a new "standard" - the mass market needs to know what they are being sold on.
The way I see it, if consoles must die due to convergence, so will our present idea of what a PC is.
Consoles represent a certain "standard" in terms of form and function, and to replace them you need a new "standard" - the mass market needs to know what they are being sold on.
The way I see it, if consoles must die due to convergence, so will our present idea of what a PC is.
GhostTrick
Banned
To be honest, I think the biggest difference would be ESRAM. I wonder how this thing would be handled.
Birgitte2004
Member
You clearly don't even understand what "To the Metal" means. To the metal means bypassing things like DirectX and OpenGL, because no matter how optimized they become they still add overhead.
Nobody is coding to the metal on PCs, because nobody makes a program that specific to a specific hardware set up.
Incitemaybe
Member
So many crap respones lately.
Good thread Jeff Rigby, I don't think I can agree or disagree but your reasoning seems solid, I certainly do believe the form of consoles is going to be changing, when and how is always worth speculating on. Thanks for the food for thought.
Good thread Jeff Rigby, I don't think I can agree or disagree but your reasoning seems solid, I certainly do believe the form of consoles is going to be changing, when and how is always worth speculating on. Thanks for the food for thought.
cHaOs667
Member
It is unlikely that the consumer will see that his XBox One is running Windows 10 (or do you see that your current XBox One is running a stripped down Windows 8?).
The most important aspect here is that the underlying operating system will be the same and that the store gets unified with Windows 10 so it is very likely that we will see many more apps coming to the XBox One and that Microsoft will provide something like a cross buy functionality (which is already available on the Windows Phone and Windows 8 Store).
When I buy a PC game I have to go through this:
1. Will it run on my hardware?
2. Check what 3rd party DRM/activation limits it has, if any.
3. Research into the quality of the port.
4. Decide which service to buy from. GOG, Steam, Uplay, Origin, and so on.
5. Research into any known bugs and workarounds.
6. Can I use a 360 pad?
7. Is the text/UI too small for TV gaming?
8. Buy and Downlaod (On my connection, takes up to two days)
9. Find out that it doesn't boot up, despite meeting specs.
When I buy a console game:
1. Decide if I like the look of it.
2. Buy it.
3. Play it.
Disclaimer: This is just my personal experience.
1. Will it run on my hardware?
2. Check what 3rd party DRM/activation limits it has, if any.
3. Research into the quality of the port.
4. Decide which service to buy from. GOG, Steam, Uplay, Origin, and so on.
5. Research into any known bugs and workarounds.
6. Can I use a 360 pad?
7. Is the text/UI too small for TV gaming?
8. Buy and Downlaod (On my connection, takes up to two days)
9. Find out that it doesn't boot up, despite meeting specs.
When I buy a console game:
1. Decide if I like the look of it.
2. Buy it.
3. Play it.
Disclaimer: This is just my personal experience.
jeff_rigby
Banned
AMD will be releasing a SoC with 8GB of HBM and equal to or greater than PS4 performance sometime around 2016+. Since all IO and memory are in the SoC or on the interposer it's a FIXED console like design and should be VERY cheap...certainly under $300. Every feature seen in the XB1 and PS4 should be possible on the new SoC.
Upgrading PCs does not have the same issues seen in the past with upgrading Consoles. The new consoles support QOS, variable clocks and are designed to slow down if overheating.
V2 of HBM will have a minimum size of 8GB which is why I think both the PS4 and XB1 have 8GB. Any PC SoC will have 8GB of HBM as main or L3 Cache and additional memory on the mainboard or a few years later optically connected to HMC memory.
Surely nobody trusts anything that Microsoft do with PC gaming at this point.
Somehow leveraging the pretty stunted Xbone library on a PC is no kind of advantage over or threat to Steam.
Somehow leveraging the pretty stunted Xbone library on a PC is no kind of advantage over or threat to Steam.
That doesn't mean what you think it means.
Graphics Horse
Member
I don't see Sony making any attempt to turn their consoles into Linux boxes again whether it's PS4 or PS5, they're dropping/dropped out of all the fiercely competed hardware markets already, including PCs. Playstation survives because it practically guarantees each person who buys one becomes part of an ongoing revenue stream.
Tbh that's up to Microsoft, they could plaster the interface with Windows 10 branding if they wanted to.
Tbh that's up to Microsoft, they could plaster the interface with Windows 10 branding if they wanted to.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
All Windows 8/8.1 users get 10 for free. Pretty sure that's been confirmed.
Who is buying this fabled box? Look at the various threads on the alienware alpha and other really small boxes - some people like them, but there are tons that would simply build a more powerful box with traditional components.
So you really need to aim outside of the core PC gamer segment. That means the mainstream. And those are the people that will perceive (rightly or wrongly) that PCs are complicated to set up and not suited for use as a console replacement. Even simply needing a mouse&KB in the living room will rule it out for a lot of people.
jeff_rigby
Banned
YES! well though out response that summarizes everything in one sentence.
If with "consoles are going to die" you mean "consoles are going to change", then yes, they have been doing that for quite some time now.
If you mean that everyone will soon stop buying prebuilt machines to play video games on their TV and will move to regular desktop PCs, then, well, believe whatever you want to believe I suppose.
If you mean that everyone will soon stop buying prebuilt machines to play video games on their TV and will move to regular desktop PCs, then, well, believe whatever you want to believe I suppose.
I'm in the same boat as this post. I'm too old and no longer have the time on my hands to deal with the pain in the ass issues that come up while PC gaming. I console game for convenience. It's simply an easier platform for me to game on and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Nicktendo86
Member
I've been a console gamer for 20 years now and own a PC, tablet, phone etc. I feel relatively tech savvy, can open my PC and do simple repairs, but what you have typed above has gone waaaay over my head and to be honest find myself not bothering to read it. That's why what you predict will never happen, the masses cannot be bothered with that bullshit. If they want to play games in their living room they will buy a box that does it and then buy the next one in five years time. It's why the iPhone has done so well, the masses want simplicity and something they can easily understand.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Lol what? Consoles aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Especially considering that 2015 is one of the biggest years for console gaming and we haven't even seen what's in store for 2016.
Surely these 2 points negate each other?
If you have a smartphone/tablet or TV that can run High End games, having a wireless keyboard/mouse is just as easy as a full (now pointless) tower.
This entire hyperbole thread just says Future stuff will kill all stuff known now inc and more so big cumbersome PC's
And this..
Same feeling here.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Until you can break the laws of physics and get rid of input latency, then consoles or some form thereof will always have a place.
edit: I see you're equating PC's to consoles. I still don't buy it.
edit: I see you're equating PC's to consoles. I still don't buy it.
This is pretty much how I see it. Both PC and traditional games consoles are converging and in quite a few years, neither will be the same.
It seems set that the Xbox One will be running Windows 10 and using universal apps via their One Store pretty soon. At that point I'd argue those guys have something closer to a low end gaming PC on their hands.
As far as Steam Machines go they have many years to go before seeing real growth. There is a lot to be solved there first
Neue Regel
Banned
That kind of used to be true but it seems consoles are more like PC's now with the constant game updates wand firmware, plus games can just perform as badly on consoles are on PC, take Unity for example. Plus there are often mods to fix issues on bad PC ports, more often than not badly performing console games are stuck that way forever.
Also "6. Can I use a 360 pad?" You can in pretty much every modern game.
Bl@de
Member
That's a point that really annoys me. A lot of games don't let you adjust font and hud size. It's fine in front of my pc monitor but makes couch gaming on my 35" tv impossible from 2m distance.
Latest example was AC:Unity. Map icons, text, everything is just way too small. Never have to look twice when playing on WiiU/PS3. Annoying because playing my couch is way more comfy than my PC desk.
Good thread Jeff, could I just ask
What is being done in the mainstream OS space regarding simplified (10 ft) UI to alleviate stress in moving to a PC based console device?
At the point that PCs lose their openness due to manufacturers wanting to secure their content, will the PC market start providing systems that aren't as locked down as the SOC's?
What is being done in the mainstream OS space regarding simplified (10 ft) UI to alleviate stress in moving to a PC based console device?
At the point that PCs lose their openness due to manufacturers wanting to secure their content, will the PC market start providing systems that aren't as locked down as the SOC's?
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Exactly. When reading the OP I couldn't help but feel like it was written without any understanding of the human element that plays into why consoles still sell so well. The OP is extremely well written and raises valid points, but you put that in front of your average consumer and not only will they not understand it, they'll stop reading after the first paragraph. Consumers want plug-and-play simplicity first and foremost.
Lmao!
SerTapTap
Member
They haven't talked pricing for Windows 10 ever and that rumor predates them calling it windows 10. True or not it's a useless rumor for now.
fluffydelusions
Member
Exactly. The reason why consoles exist is because the majority of people like to pay for convenience. Which is why all this talk about specs and features is moot.
YianGaruga
Banned
If that's what you were going for with the thread you chose a really poor title for it.
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
18+ millions PS4 say you hi