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The Order 1886 Review Thread

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F

Fancy Clown

Member
Morfeo said:
I will say I am pretty surprised by these scores and the recent downturn in the gaming media in regards to cinematic games. Just a few years ago, they were loved and could do no wrong, and I remember the old gameplay-guy Matt Casamassina even writing stuff about how Uncharted 2 was saving gaming (or something like that).
Click to expand...

That's becuase the ways in which Uncharted is cinematic is very different from the ways in which The Order is. Uncharted is cinematic because it looks like you're playing a movie, The Order is cinematic because half the time you are watching a movie.
 
F

Floridian

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
If a five hour steak that costs $100 but is also a sportscar made out of diamonds drives out of a movie theater at 20MPH, and a sedan hamburger that is 40 hours long and open world drives out of a McDonald's at 70MPH, when will the two meet and what will the score be

I'm trying to figure out the proper analogies here
Click to expand...

How much is the hamburger? That's bothering me.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
Amir0x said:
Post-purchase rationalization.

It's why I have a trusted GAFer list. I am not concerned with posters who simply buy something they were anticipating and then shut off their critical faculties in the analysis. So many people do that instinctively, they anticipate something and then are incapable of actually just admitting all that time they spent hyped for the product was a waste so they go about justifying it in ever more heightened ways. Even if everyone else says it's mediocre, everyone else is seeing it the wrong way. They find less and less flaws, until everyone is nitpicking.

For me, for a GAFer to make my trusted opinion list it works like this... take a game I either love or hate and have expressed myself in detail about. Then, read a poster who disagrees with my position, but goes to length to articulate why in a way that makes sense and is rational. The mark of a good critic is not that you always agree with them, it's that you can respect the merit of their opinion even when you disagree. At least, that's what I've found.

So especially when I see someone willing to take a game they anticipated to task for not being completely up to snuff, I make note of that individual because it means they are less likely to make excuses for a game just because they pre-ordered it and spent the last two years anticipating it.

Problem with lots of people who rush out in excitement to get something is that they spend so much time building it up, posting about how rad it's gonna be on forums, that going back and admitting it's not all it was made out to be is tough for some folk.
Click to expand...
This is actually part of why I want to go in depth on this game after I finish it. I've been very much looking forward to it but I also really want to start working out more critical posts on games. Haven't had much time before but I'm definitely going to put time into this one.

I also bought the game with a gift card so no money out of pocket, which I think will let me look at it more critically than if I dropped $60 (or $80 since I got the CE)
 
W

WaLlbaNg

Member
-TK- said:
Knack, Killzone, Driveclub and now this.. Sony is on fire with their exclusives.
Click to expand...
Driveclub is so underrated it hurts, best racing game for me in a long time. Killzone was indeed meh.

I hope The Order turns out like Driveclub for me, bad reviews but an excellent game out of my point of view
 
P

PhatSaqs

Banned
Not surprised by the consensus so far as it never grabbed me as something I need to check out from any previews or footage. I still say that if it interests you, buy it.
 
Z

zackmorris

Member
Unfortunately this is kind of expected, based off all the early impressions. Disappointing still though. I was really excited for this game but I think I'll have to pass, at least for 60. Maybe when Sony starts putting retail games on Ps plus this could be a candidate.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
So what kind of mechanics are in this game other than run, crouch, cover, shoot, and presumably melee? I don't know much about how this game actually plays. Does it offer anything beyond those basics? If not, does it do anything interesting with the enemy encounters, like RE4 did?
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Koh said:
Do you guys think RAD is surprised by the score this game is getting in reviews? Sometimes when you make something you value it higher than others.

Or do you think they expected this but decided to cut their loses?
Click to expand...

no, not at all. their damage control so close to launch showed that they weren't confident in the scores that were about to come out. if they were they would have just kept their mouths shut and let all the "bullies" eat some crow.
 
C

Cheech

Member
The Shogun said:
I'll be honest, as crazy as it is, lots of consumers hate short games, regardless of quality. They beat them, don't think they got their cash worth, and trade it in. Not everyone of course but I'm speaking of mass market. Combine that with no multi player and little to no replayability from what the majority of reviews are saying and........


Yeah I don't anticipate good word of mouth at all. But we'll see, could be off on that.
Click to expand...

The biggest issue is that if you don't have a lot of "game" in your game, you damn well better have an incredible story and characters. Heavy Rain toed this line well.

The Order has never looked compelling on any level. I'm wondering when Sony is going to start exercising some quality control on these first party releases, because right now they're the anti-Nintendo, just dropping steaming piles of shit on their fanbase, with third parties picking up the slack.
 
M

Mets9

Member
EmCeeGramr said:
If a five hour steak that costs $100 but is also a sportscar made out of diamonds drives out of a movie theater at 20MPH, and a sedan hamburger that is 40 hours long and open world drives out of a McDonald's at 70MPH, when will the two meet and what will the score be

I'm trying to figure out the proper analogies here
Click to expand...
Err...can I call home?
 
A

anexanhume

Member
Holy shit at that MetroUK quote. So fucking mean-spirited. It's fine if you don't like a game, but to blatantly suggest that the people behind it are incompetent idiots who dare try and partake in your medium.
 
Freeman

Freeman

Banned
Dr. Kitty Muffins said:
I think it is pretty clear that Sony's first party advantage that many hear touted at launched has been squandered. Technically, this wasn't a team that they owned but the overall theme for Sony's PS4 exclusives has been unmet potential. They really need to get things together on that front.
Click to expand...

Dude, outside of TLoU remaster Sony most well regarded studios didn't even show up for this gen yet.

Infamous SS, Killzone SF, Driveclub and The Order were all very competent in technical aspects, now that those studios have their engines working on PS4 their next game will probably improve a lot. As a platform holder it makes sense to focus on technical showcases early on.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
lt519 said:
I'd like to see a review website that instead of a score put a price tag on a game. Never Buy/Buy at (insert price point)/Buy Now.

I get some think it's a bad game, but to put a review score out based on the length is tough since the price will change.
Click to expand...
That would be really interesting if a major publication did that. I sometimes do this for my crappy, amateur reviews :p
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
Amir0x said:
Post-purchase rationalization.

It's why I have a trusted GAFer list. I am not concerned with posters who simply buy something they were anticipating and then shut off their critical faculties in the analysis. So many people do that instinctively, they anticipate something and then are incapable of actually just admitting all that time they spent hyped for the product was a waste so they go about justifying it in ever more heightened ways. Even if everyone else says it's mediocre, everyone else is seeing it the wrong way. They find less and less flaws, until everyone is nitpicking.

For me, for a GAFer to make my trusted opinion list it works like this... take a game I either love or hate and have expressed myself in detail about. Then, read a poster who disagrees with my position, but goes to length to articulate why in a way that makes sense and is rational. The mark of a good critic is not that you always agree with them, it's that you can respect the merit of their opinion even when you disagree. At least, that's what I've found.

So especially when I see someone willing to take a game they anticipated to task for not being completely up to snuff, I make note of that individual because it means they are less likely to make excuses for a game just because they pre-ordered it and spent the last two years anticipating it.

Problem with lots of people who rush out in excitement to get something is that they spend so much time building it up, posting about how rad it's gonna be on forums, that going back and admitting it's not all it was made out to be is tough for some folk.
Click to expand...

This is so common here.

Its that same old ugly 'hype' phenomenon that causes otherwise rational people to lose their heads completely, and abandon all of the defence mechanisms consumers have developed over years of being advertised and marketed to.

Some people seem unable to separate excitement from crazy. It gets to a point where they go so far down one road, there is no turning back.

The games industry, and community, would be a much better place for everyone if people could just chill out, be a bit less hysterical, and a bit more critical, and channel enthusiasm in more constructive ways than is the case right now.

Its cool to be excited and passionate about your hobby, but don't lose your head.
 
M

MegaSackman

Member
Cheech said:
The biggest issue is that if you don't have a lot of "game" in your game, you damn well better have an incredible story and characters. Heavy Rain toed this line well.

The Order has never looked compelling on any level. I'm wondering when Sony is going to start exercising some quality control on these first party releases, because right now they're the anti-Nintendo, just dropping steaming piles of shit on their fanbase, with third parties picking up the slack.
Click to expand...

Emm actually no, Heavy Rain does NOT have an incredible story, let alone characters!!
 
R

Ramza

Banned
To me, The Order feels a lot like Uncharted 1. It's RAD's first attempt at a PS4 game (like Uncharted was ND's PS3 game). It's SP only, it's not the longest game, and the gameplay gets repetitive, but it opens their doors for future projects. Their PSP GoW games were fantastic, so I have no problem buying The Order if it means they can branch out with The Order 2.
 
Alebrije

Alebrije

Member
Soon on PS Plus : The Order 1886.

Well , maybe by next year but I can wait since is just a singleplayer experience.

The only way I can se this game gets more appeal is with a great cheap/free DLC that improves the whole experience (length).

Paying 60 bucks its a lot for most players for just few hours of gameplay , you can pay the same for a game like Bloodborne that will give you more gameplay time.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Moon_frogger said:
Ok so all the reviews are saying this is gears of war except not fun. So I'm wondering if maybe people just can't get enough of 3rd person cover shooters, to the point where they are arguing that this game is innovative? I don't get it. I make an offhand comment that it looks painfully generic and people are scoffing and going on about werewolves or something?
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is saying that it's innovative in every sense possible. I see it as a TellTale game with some actual gameplay bolted on, and a thousandfold better visuals and polish. I like the idea of it, and don't see why anyone sees the problem with that concept, past the asking price that is higher than TellTale games.
 
H

hohoXD123

Member
Cheech said:
The biggest issue is that if you don't have a lot of "game" in your game, you damn well better have an incredible story and characters. Heavy Rain toed this line well.

The Order has never looked compelling on any level. I'm wondering when Sony is going to start exercising some quality control on these first party releases, because right now they're the anti-Nintendo, just dropping steaming piles of shit on their fanbase, with third parties picking up the slack.
Click to expand...

Oh come on now, many people enjoyed Infamous and Driveclub, even with the latter's issues. Such hyperbole.
 
C

ChosenPredator

Banned
Sometimes I wish I would wait for these reviews i got caught up purely in graphic hype on the forums. never again -.-

BUT


I may like it still - that is the risk with pre ordering digital i don't think you can cancel.
 
C

Chabbles

Member
RoboPlato said:
This is actually part of why I want to go in depth on this game after I finish it. I've been very much looking forward to it but I also really want to start working out more critical posts on games. Haven't had much time before but I'm definitely going to put time into this one.

I also bought the game with a gift card so no money out of pocket, which I think will let me look at it more critically than if I dropped $60 (or $80 since I got the CE)
Click to expand...

Or maybe less critically since you spent none of your own hard earned cash on it.
 
G

Goodacre0081

Member
llAuburnll said:
Can we drop the journalism integrity or standards thing? There's obvious reasons MCC scored what it did,regardless of how high or low others score. Technically sound or bug free does not a good game make.
Click to expand...

why should we ever lower our expectation of these so-called journalists? they're in a position that is supposed to benefit the consumer first and for a long while now it's increasingly become a PR arm of big publishers.
 
P

Ponchito

Member
WaLlbaNg said:
Driveclub is so underrated it hurts, best racing game for me in a long time. Killzone was indeed meh.

I hope The Order turns out like Driveclub for me, bad reviews but an excellent game out of my point of view
Click to expand...

Agree on Driveclub being underrated, but the launch was an atrocity.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Amir0x said:
Post-purchase rationalization.

It's why I have a trusted GAFer list. I am not concerned with posters who simply buy something they were anticipating and then shut off their critical faculties in the analysis. So many people do that instinctively, they anticipate something and then are incapable of actually just admitting all that time they spent hyped for the product was a waste so they go about justifying it in ever more heightened ways. Even if everyone else says it's mediocre, everyone else is seeing it the wrong way. They find less and less flaws, until everyone is nitpicking.

For me, for a GAFer to make my trusted opinion list it works like this... take a game I either love or hate and have expressed myself in detail about. Then, read a poster who disagrees with my position, but goes to length to articulate why in a way that makes sense and is rational. The mark of a good critic is not that you always agree with them, it's that you can respect the merit of their opinion even when you disagree. At least, that's what I've found.

So especially when I see someone willing to take a game they anticipated to task for not being completely up to snuff, I make note of that individual because it means they are less likely to make excuses for a game just because they pre-ordered it and spent the last two years anticipating it.

Problem with lots of people who rush out in excitement to get something is that they spend so much time building it up, posting about how rad it's gonna be on forums, that going back and admitting it's not all it was made out to be is tough for some folk.
Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons why the hype cycle exists in the first place; it provides customers with so much built up hype that they will be very reluctant to admit the game is bad even if that badness should be readily apparent. Whether this applies to The Order: 1886 in particular I can't speak to; I haven't played this particular game. I'm speaking generally, in this case.
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
alr1ght said:
Which means a game has to be open world, filled with experience points, and side quests. That's what's trendy now. Sadly most games are following this template but so few of them are capable of taking advantage of what an open world can bring. Instead they're filled with story that would have worked just as well in a linear game (think Zelda style linear), and tons of fetch quests and collectables. Linear games are not bad, and neither are open world games. Take advantage of the style you chose, don't homogenize everything with a checklist.

I think the story and setting look super interesting here in The Order. It's a shame they seem to have squandered that.
Click to expand...

This needs to be said right now; I can't speak for everyone but I can probably speak for a few others in saying, at least for us, our criticisms in this game are not because it's linear, but because it seems to be brain-dead easy while being linear. Some of us have played it, and some of us haven't, but we've all seen a few vids of playthroughs right now and heard of word from others saying it's not particularly taxing.

Let us look at a cinematic game that does it right; the original Ninja Gaiden on NES. That game was also driven by a story but the reason it is beloved is because altho yes it is linear, it is still skill-based. To speedrun the game you have to have played it a few times and improved your skills, and I don't mean in terms of experience points or skill unlocks, but in terms of raw dexterity, learning of the level layout and enemy patterns/spawn locations, taking advantage of glitches, and muscle memory. Beating the game so shortly is a REWARD for improving your skill in the game.

The same can be said for yet another story-heavy, linear game: Resident Evil. Playing it the first time and without a walkthrough, chances are likely you are going to take a decent amount of time to complete it, and get a mediocre rank at best. But by replaying the game, your skills improve; you learn the best and fastest routes, what to pick up and when, best ways to taking advantage of the camera system, what enemies to fight and who to avoid, how often to save and when, etc. Again, you being able to clear it in 1-2 hours is a REWARD for improving your skill in the game.

The Order offers absolutely nothing like this. It seems to have sacrificed skill dependency as a factor for shaving off completion time; in return the entire experience has been streamlined to such an extreme that your ability to complete the game quickly is almost guaranteed by the lack of player-skill requested by the game's scenarios and challenges, and in fact is artificially inflated by the unskippable cutscenes. Completing the game in a few hours is something the game itself sets up to make possible no matter what, at the detriment of player skill needing to be a factor.

In other words, it's not the fact itself that troubles us, it's HOW the game gets there that's the real problem. Do not conflate the two, please.
 
A

Atomski

Member
Koh said:
Do you guys think RAD is surprised by the score this game is getting in reviews? Sometimes when you make something you value it higher than others.

Or do you think they expected this but decided to cut their loses?
Click to expand...

Pulling the bully card before release seemed to be a pretty good indicator they were preparing for bad press.
 
D

DoubleTake

Member
Necromanti said:
Looking at the Giant Bomb quick look, some things I can imagine becoming bothersome are the forced walking sections (which tend to annoy me in most games) and the way the action/gameplay is often interrupted by cutscenes (including some of the transitions). The game seems to teeter back and forth between giving you control and taking it away from you a bit too often.
Click to expand...

This is exactly my misgiving about the game. when they first showed that cutscenes and cinematics blend seamlessly (Lafayette and galahad jumping across rooftops) it looked amazing, but I doubt many expected that type of philosophy would carry over into actual moment to moment gameplay where it would be jarring, myseld included.

This is RADs biggest mistake imo. Something like cinematic cuts to do a simple takedown on an enemy is just jarring and does nothing but to take the player out of the game.

As someone who was very excited for this game, and whose excitement has dwindled since announce, i really feel for RAD and hope they get another shot at it.

Theres nothing wrong with being a cinematic story driven experience, but you better be sure as hell to deliver on that front while ensuring actual gameplay doesnt take a hit.
 
S

Sweep14

Member
Superflat said:
Wowee at those review scores. I planned to rent this title for a while now anyway but I am genuinely curious as to what my feelings on the game will be when I play it for myself, since I'm a fan of Heavy Rain, The Walking Dead, and such. One thing I can see myself agreeing with is the issue with value proposition because no matter how pretty it is, it does appear to be a small package for a 60 dollar game.
Click to expand...

You'll probably be like the majority of people that will play it knowing the scores it got : Being quite unable to understand why it was slammered
 
drotahorror

drotahorror

Member
-TK- said:
Driveclub
Click to expand...

Best game released this gen not including remasters.

I think it's actually funny people quote Driveclub as being bad. Most Driveclub owners will tell you it's one of the best racing games you can play.

It's also funny how people just take reviewers and critics for their word. Glad I don't blindly follow what they say or I'd miss out on some games (ie Driveclub).
 
W

wilflare

Member
Elios83 said:
The fact that reviewers have double standards depending on the game and its developer/publisher is clearly true.

But the problem with The Order is that the game tries to do something that many people (particularly among the press) nowadays simply don't appreciate.
You have to be open world, you have to put the player always in control, you need at least a decent co-op mode, you need replayability with tons of useless fetch quests. If you try to innovate within that formula is the icing on the cake.
Those are the guidelines if you want to make a well recevied/scored game today.
RAD decided to make an interactive movie with third person shooter sections, they're getting shit for it. Same shit that David Cage and others got plain and simple.
The way they handled their PR which was stupidly shady, trying to hide what the game was for too long (because they knew that it wasn't what most people wanted) didn't help.
Still there is a market for these titles. There are people who actually like these kind of experiences so it's up to them if this game will be successful on the market or not.
Click to expand...

so much truth here - it hurts
and people are actually saying that now is the best time for gaming due to the sheer variety and diversity of games/experiences

but it seems like in the end, people are just looking for more of the same?
 
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