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[Abounder]

Any love for Blizzard and World of Warcraft? Millions of players log on and pay monthly, and it's both a technical and artistic masterpiece.

I think they are only the best because they have the time and money. They have the resources that other devs can probably only dream of. If that same budget and time was allocated to other devs, I bet they can exceed R*.

I would take that bet after other big blockbuster games like SWTOR and Destiny. Not only do you need the time and money but you need the experience; and there's only a handful of devs that can rival R* or Blizzard

 

[crazy monkey]

Definitely, nobody comes close. Only worlds that feel alive in gaming. I can't even pinpoint what exactly is that they do right, I guess it's a perfect balance of different things.

Can't believe people are countering with Xenoblade. To me its world felt so dull and devoid of anything of interest.

Dragon Dogma had a fantastic world as well, albeit definitely smaller than a proper "open-world".

I loves xenoblade too. The world interms of fantasy setting is just class act. R* are masters at realistic world but fantasy world wide xenoblade was just mind blowing.

 

[theWB27]

It's almost disrespectful that there are people in here who are saying if other devs were given the same budget they'd be able to do the same thing. As if throwing a pile of money on the table made GTA5 possible. Or even GTA3.

 

[Noobcraft]

It's not open world but Halo has excellent world design.
https://photosynth.net/view.aspx?ci...53864213699325:2.47183286573776&p=0:0&t=False

https://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=f60bc63c-8edb-435d-8093-3bc660a7fb1b

 

[Alienous]

It's almost disrespectful that there are people in here who are saying if other devs were given the same budget they'd be able to do the same thing. As if throwing a pile of money on the table made GTA5 possible. Or even GTA3.

Well, when a game like Watch Dogs had about half of the development budget of GTA V I don't think that's an outrageous conclusion.

 

[TeddyShardik]

Yeah, they probably are. That's their business. Most big Rockstar games are so great because of their worlds and stories I'd say. They make up what's lacking in terms of mechanics handily.

 

[theWB27]

Well, when a game like Watch Dogs had about half of the development budget of GTA V I don't think that's an outrageous conclusion.

It is outrageous...because it's basically saying devs are equal when we know that isn't the case at all.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

You heard it on GAF: building open world maps takes ZERO skill. Jus copy photographs!

Rockstar are #1 at world building because they're absurdly good at it.

Apparently if you throw enough money at a game, any fool can do what Rockstar does.

They're insanely talented, and the best in the industry. Nothing comes to the worlds they build. Even if the stories often suck, the world you experience in the games and the atmosphere is second to none.

 

[Trickster]

No doubt OP they just get what makes a open-world work.

I feel like GTA is a series that's great for people who can enjoy a open world game with no clear goals or objectives. Which is probably why it has such great main stream appeal, plenty of people seem find a ton of fun in getting a huge detailed sandbox to do random shit in.

Personally though, I find GTA5 incredibly boring and void of interesting stuff to do, all the side stuff is incredibly boring everyday activities. yoga, tennis, golf, really? And exploring the world is a very unrewarding experience. Something like finding the prison as one of my first things after completing the story, and having there be absolutely nothing of interesting to do or find there was just so anti climactic. There was someone that had a very succinct description of GTA5, it was something along the lines of "there's a higher chances of finding a gun lying on the roof of a building in LA, than in Los Santos". Which is think is a very apt description of the exploration in GTA5

 

[BigDug13]

I guess GTA is the only game Rockstar makes based on a ton of answers in this thread. Not every game they make is based on a real city.

 

[Powercast]

yes, Rockstar are just on another level.

 

[EGM1966]

It's not just the buildings. Rockstars are masters in making the cities feel alive with tiny things, subtle wind moving, chatter, pedestrian actions, the hand placed litter on the streets, everything just fits.

And those saying they "have it easy because real world" forget that Red Dead Redemption is fictional and probably has the besf ambientation ever made.

Rockstar are talented, passionate and know what they're doing. No way around that.

While I don't think it's as easy as copying the real world as a fan of western films don't go thinking they created anything much in RDR: as their GTA games borrow from real cities RDR borrows heavily from films that themselves borrowed from real life.

For myself I think what sets them apart compared to similar titles is attention to small details, use of mechanics that keep things feeling holistic (NPC reactions, stuff going on like shootouts or people talking, etc) and dedication to re-creation the organic feel of real world (uneven pavements, cracks and gaps, poles that aren't perfectly straight, etc). That sense of worn lived in as used in film sets really helps more than anything IMHO.

They also cheat sensibly to cram more in in your vision (cars and NPCs and other objects vanish or repair themselves working moments of you turning your back) but they're very good at balancing it do you hadly notice unless you really pay attention or look for it.

 

[old manatee]

GTA IV had internet cafes called TW@. So no. Probably not the best in the world.

 

[Opiate]

I guess GTA is the only game Rockstar makes based on a ton of answers in this thread. Not every game they make is based on a real city.

People are ignoring lots of things. MMOs aren't being mentioned, for instance.

Towards the topic generally: the reason Rockstar games are so "fleshed out" is money. I don't mean Rockstar has no skill at all -- of course that's not true -- but "World building" is very much a function of money .The more people you have and the more time you give them, the more buildings and people and stuff they can create.

You won't see anyone compete with Rockstar because step 1 in competing is "have 100M+ budget."

 

[tearsintherain]

ehh, I dunno. I'm playing GTA5 right now on PS4 and really enjoying it but still 90% of the buildings cannot be entered. They do a great job with NPCs interacting with the environment which is really a big part of immersion (and where Nintendo games always fall short) but still, its a far cry imo from some MMOs or even games like Sims. They definitely have a great breadth and depth on vehicles and activities.

Infamous:SS also had a wonderfully built city but again it felt a little soulless when you looked closer, you couldn't walk into anything and the peoples conversations were a bit more interesting but still very repetitive. AC5's Paris was pretty fascinating especially with the crowds and certain buildings you could crawl into or through.

I'd still have to give it to Skyrim or Fallout for an amazing world created purely from imagination, although I think stuff like World of Warcraft, FF14, or Minecraft top even that.

VR will certainly be interesting for immersion and what it will bring to open sandbox games, hopefully the bigger resources of next gen also allow for much bigger sandboxes to explore.

 

[Ahasverus]

You won't see anyone compete with Rockstar because step 1 in competing is "have 100M+ budget."

I don't agree. Watch dogs is sterile as water while Sleeping Dogs approaches ambientation far better, and probably costed far less. Even Bully which is as low budget as it gets it's still believable.

 

[Dicktatorship]

They are pretty great, but I think all of that stems from an over bloated budget, gigantic teams, and millions of man hours rather than creative prowess.

I think Bethesda and From Software make the best worlds, both excels in environmental story telling while Bethesda gives the player very loose and gratifying freedom From focuses on tight and nuanced design. Both are amazing.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I loved GTAV but you don't get points for copying a city that actually exists. They did an impressive job, but they "just" rebuilt LA.

By contrast, MonilithSoft is creating VASTLY more original worlds with their Xenoblade games.

this right here, folks

 

[Philippo]

Idk, the last 15min. trailer of TW3 seems way more appealing to me, but maybe is ecause i love fantasy settings much more.

 

[Doctor Ninja]

I find Rockstar's worlds to be uninteresting, Yes, they're filled with small details but the worlds overall aren't as interesting as Rapture for example.

 

[UrbanRats]

I don't agree. Watch dogs is sterile as water while Sleeping Dogs approaches ambientation far better, and probably costed far less. Even Bully which is as low budget as it gets it's still believable.

Yeah, Bully is a good example of why it's more than a "they just throw money at it" issue.

That said, when it comes to GTA, budget is surely a big factor, too.

 

[Rembrandt]

Your title could have been "Is Rockstar the best?" and I would have still came in here and said yeah. <3 R*.

 

[eshwaaz]

In general, I'd say Rockstar is king in this area, but I feel they've really slipped in terms of non-story content.

I was completed floored by the world of GTA V, but soon found myself disappointed by the lack of structured side missions, activities and compelling reasons to explore. The world feels incredibly detailed and the believable sense of place is powerful, but sightseeing is only fun for so long.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Yeah.

Maybe Volition would be able to have a crack at it if they actually, y'know, made a new city. SR2 Stilwater was great, on par with San Andreas.

 

[HK-47]

No love for MMOs in here. I would think those are among the great world builders.

I also wonder if we should criticize GTA for making beautiful detailed world filled with people who you really only interact with through violence. One would think people are an important part of world building.

 

[Wasp]

Absolutely.

GTA cities feel genuinely lived in with a history and a purpose. Every little area feels unique. No copy and pasted areas or repeated buildings. No invisible walls or insurmountable fences. Practically every square metre seems to have love and attention applied to it to make it seem more real. For example the newer darker tarmac on top of older faded tarmac showing where roadworks have once been.

Compare that to Sleeping Dogs or Saints Row: The Third. Those cities feel more like cheap movie sets by comparison. During my time of playing those two games not once did I ever explore the cities just for the sake of exploring, which is something I do in GTA.

 

[Bl@de]

Not for me. I would give it to Piranha Bytes with Gothic/Risen. Beautiful terrain with lots to find and every person has a daily routine with job etc. ... It's a big factor when you craft a believable world. But of course they use smaller maps and less npcs.

What I'm really looking forward to is Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Where npcs have different hobbies (for example when they see the pub is full after work they go for a walk, or fishing, or home ...).

But Rockstar would be the next on my list. They do a great job too

 

[Dicktatorship]

What I'm really looking forward to is Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Where npcs have different hobbies (for example when they see the pub is full after work they go for a walk, or fishing, or home ...).

Are we allowed to talk about that one on neogaf?

 

[PdotMichael]

Monolith Soft seems to be better.

Not even close.

 

[Bl@de]

Are we allowed to talk about that one on neogaf?

What? Why not?

Forgot about Bohemia with Arma, Dayz. Forget Rockstar, Bohemia is second on my list^^

 

[Ultimadrago]

Rockstar wipes the floor with everyone else in design.

Can't believe people are countering with Xenoblade. To me its world felt so dull and devoid of anything of interest.

Or X for that matter. The wilderness it sports is vast with fantastical monsters, sure. But the city looks like a Sims hub, the character models look worse than a given Madden audience member from '05 and I bet you won't be able to walk and actively interact in more than three buildings, if at all, in New LA.

I'm getting X, but comparing Monolith to Rockstar's cohesiveness in open environments is a poorly thought joke.

 

[Arulan]

I think, based on the posts thus far, that the discussion is flawed because there is no agreed upon basis for what world building is, or all that it entails. For instance, most of the discussion has been centered around the quantity and detail of the environments, be it landscapes, cities, architecture, but that is only a part of what I think of when I use the term world building. It's the details not only in the environment, but in the characters that inhabit the world, the cultures, conflicts, motivations, religions, the design of the clothing, etc. It's the difference between Morrowind and Oblivion, or that of Fallout: New Vegas to Fallout 3. It's the difference between theme park world design, and one in which is designed to be a real place, with explanations for how settlements survive (food and water) to ecology placement and design. To put in other words, I believe it's the collaborative effort of every detail that further reinforces your suspension of disbelief in a setting, and subsequently allows you to become immersed in it.

If you take all of this into account, then no, despite their enormous budgets, I don't think Rockstar is the best at world building, and all that it entails.

 

[Haly]

From my point of view, the way the worlds of GTA games are created is equivalent to visual artists using photographic reference for creating urban backdrops. And while there is nothing wrong with that, it's not so much "world building" as it is "world translation", taking pieces from the real and then turning them into a collage

Although I can appreciate a well made/drawn city, the city itself doesn't interest me in the least. If I simply wanted to see a photorealistic cityscape and appreciate architecture, I'd go to downtown for lunch.

 

[GayForMaster]

Even if they are, their games are mediocre.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Helps to have a massive blank check and creative freedom.

Totally agree. They are passive aggressive because they have everyone fighting them. IMO they have more of a push to make their worlds more exclusive and unique. They have excellent presentation because of that as well. They get picked on every single time they have a new GTA come out. They don't fear someone telling them to stop. Half of the people fighting them probably don't even see it either.

1 prostitute > The hard work put into the world (which is stubborn)

I think they have maturity levels of a lot of people going after them. It's BS because its beyond their hard work. Lousy critics always thinking games are for a selective majority always causing it.

 

[TM94]

Even if they are, their games are mediocre.

But they're not though are they?

 

[Northeastmonk]

But they're not though are they?

That' left up to interpretation by you the player. I think some of GTA's criticism is not because someone is a fan, but because the public spectrum knows what GTA is.

Criticism: Parents, Kids, College Students, Politicians, and Healthcare professionals
Where criticism should come from in reality: The people who play GTA

 

[ninanuam]

I don't know if Rockstar is the best at making fully functional worlds, there is not much clockwork to them for example, they seem a little static.

But to say "they just copy" just isn't fair. Los Santos isn't just LA, for one its vastly smaller than LA, but through their wizardry they make the different areas meld in a way that gives the impression of gradual change from urban to suburban, commercial to industrial...Sometimes things are only a block apart and it all feels natural. That's a trick no-one else seems to have figured out nearly as well and its an incredibly underrated trick which adds verisimilitude while keeping things from being annoyingly far apart.


They also do lighting and weather incredibly well, it feels like time passes in Rockstar games, not just day/night. There is very different look to GTA V when its mid morning compared to mid evening. Then add the smog/fog density, cloud cover, rain and mist and it all gives the game a different feel and look. I'm hoping at some point they add seasons to the mix in a later game. (yes Christmas was good but I want it to be dynamic, and more realistic)

Watchdogs had Chicago, Infamous Seattle, real places, and for all their log in points and Stranger Ads they didn't feel a tenth as real as Los Santos.

 

[Floridian]

Wow, I wish other developers would just "copy & paste" existing environments like Rockstar so that their open world games could be half as good.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Wow, I wish other developers would just "copy & paste" existing environments like Rockstar so that their open world games could be half as good.

please someone forward them a right-click instructional gif.

 

[Solid Samus]

The only games that come close are the Bethesda games with their Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 games.

Fallout 3 doesn't get anywhere close to having good world building.

 

[Farks!]

It depends on how you define "world building". In terms of physical world building and creating something that *looks* like a real place Rockstar typically does a phenomenal job. But in terms of creating something that *feels* real, a location with its own history, society, politics, culture, people and so on, they are far from on the same level as, let's say, CD Projekt with The Witcher or Obsidian with New Vegas. I guess you could say that Rockstar creates game worlds that looks great, but you can't interact with in a meaningful way.

I think Campster nailed it in his analysis of the game:
http://youtu.be/lZcX_ZdlW3Q

 

[Majine]

I think Blizzard and particularly World of Warcraft is excellent at building a world that completely immerses the user.

 

[Lilo_D]

not a big fan of any "realistic"
That's why I'm never interested in GTA series
it feels dull and having no imagination and creation
But yeah it's just me I prefer world like dark soul 1, xenoblade or even Zelda MM

 

[Solid Samus]

Los Santos isn't LA, it's a hundred times smaller than LA. Imagine being tasked with making a small in-game location feel like a city ten times its size in look and on-the-street feel... Los Santos is no simple 'direct translation' of LA into a virtual world, it's an extremely intelligent and well designed condensing of LA that puts every other open world I've ever played to shame.

 

[-SD-]

To me, the best is Piranha Bytes with Gothic, Gothic 2: Night of the Raven, Gothic 3 and Risen.

 

[30IR]

Max Payne 3 stands head and shoulders above most games out there IMO.

The implementation on PC was absolutely fantastic from day one in 2012.

I played the game on 3x 30" monitors (13.2MP @ 5160x2560) here, in 4K Surround (3x 4K Monitors @ 6480x3840 [25MP]) here, and in 5K (14.7MP @ 5120x2880) here.

In all of those videos, the game was maxed out including HDAO Ambient Occlusion, 2xMSAA, and 16x AF.

The game performed (still does) phenomenally at ultra-high resolutions without any hiccups whatsoever.

I really hope that GTA V for the PC was worked on by the same team!

 

[James-Ape]

I always liked Arma's Chernarus and Altis. The countryside is fantastic.

 

[Alienous]

Los Santos isn't LA, it's a hundred times smaller than LA. Imagine being tasked with making a small in-game location feel like a city ten times its size in look and on-the-street feel... Los Santos is no simple 'direct translation' of LA into a virtual world, it's an extremely intelligent and well designed condensation of LA that puts every other open world I've ever played to shame.

Absolutely.

(and more)

In terms of the world feeling more real than others that's largely a result of their budget and adhering closely to their real-world influence. The kind of detail in GTA V is only possible because of that. It feels like a real world largely because it is.

But creating a place like Skyrim, to me, is a far greater feat of world building and design.

 

[Prine]

Without a doubt. The best in the industry. People saying they copy photos have no understanding of the genius behind their finely crafted worlds. Taking bits from real life is to bring familiarity to a mad, make believe world.