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Destiny (Twitch streamer) discusses how money is made through Twitch streaming

Your average news story about streaming site Twitch usually begins with a statement that's meant to shock readers: You can make a living playing video games.

But this isn't really news to anyone who's followed the platform over the past four years. Twitch is now the No. 4 highest trafficking site on the Internet during peak hours, putting it right behind Netflix, Google, and Apple. If you’re sleeping on the effect that gaming has on the Internet, think about how the second youngest company (Netflix) on that list was founded 14 years before Twitch existed.

To become a partner, Twitch requires that your average viewership be above 500 and that you stream at least three times a week. New users coming from sites like YouTube should apply only if they have over 15,000 views per video and over 100,000 subscribers. The advantages of being a partner? First, you can add a broadcast delay, which makes it possible to stream a tournament without having cheaters on the other end updating players with what the other team is doing. Another benefit is the more applicable here: You can get subscribers. Partners charge $5 monthly to allow for private chats, emoticons, and whatever else the streamer can come up with.

Bonnell's income stream is different than many other streamers. He has his own website where he has his own subscribers at various levels, which differs from the standard $4.99 subscription cost that Twitch allows for streamers.

“I make probably less than $1,000 a month off of Twitch, streaming around 200-250 hours a month, with an average of maybe 2,500 concurrent viewers,” said Bonnell. “That's just ad revenue.”

First, Bonnell works roughly 60 hours a week, 20 hours more than your average, full-time employee.

But there's another important source of revenue on Twitch. Bonnell makes the majority of his money from his Twitch subscribers, and he says the split with Twitch is $3/$2. He said he couldn’t get an exact count, but probably makes around $5,000 a month solely from this source.

Bonnell also gets money from donations—an even bigger source of money for some. He recently started a new Twitch account based on a tournament he hosts, so he told me that naturally the donations will be bigger during the month we talked, in which he made $6,000. He told me that he typically makes about $1,500 a month from donations.

Finally, he has several other small revenue streamers that increase his yearly income. These are: AdSense from his website (varies), YouTube ($2,000 yearly), sponsorships (varies) and Amazon and other affiliate marketing programs (about $1,000 a month). We added his yearly income from last year up to land right around $100,000. This number will only go up if he continues to put out content and bring in new viewers.

Figured this needed to be added


There's more at the article: http://www.dailydot.com/esports/twitch-streaming-money-careers-destiny/

I found it yesterday while browsing reddit. It was an interesting article, since I don't think anyone has actually gone this in-depth about it.

Podcast interview here with n0thing that covers the same topics, twitch/competitive earnings. Also talks some about times he's been swatted.

http://www.allworkallplaypodcast.com/n0thing/
 

bro1

Banned
Why would you do it for such little money? Is there goal to be the next YouTube celebrity? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, are they paying taxes on it? Because if not the irs will fuck them.
 

border

Member
60 hours a week? Good lord, how is that even fun? Especially for the people that are pretty much stuck playing 1-2 particular games.
 

Mesoian

Member
It's amazing to think that the most successful twitch personalities are still only making about 38k a year.

Taxing this stuff must be a nightmare.
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Why would you do it for such little money? Is there goal to be the next YouTube celebrity? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, are they paying taxes on it? Because if not the irs will fuck them.

Per month
1k ad revenue
5k subscriber revenue
1.5-6k donations

It aint chump change for playing videogames.
 

Boke1879

Member
Why would you do it for such little money? Is there goal to be the next YouTube celebrity? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, are they paying taxes on it? Because if not the irs will fuck them.

He's actually making a pretty damn penny.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
Interesting breakdown for sure.

But it does cement you need a pretty strong drive for work to make it possible to live entirely off your stream. Not only in terms of content but also in appearance/interactivity with your audience. Sounds really stressful to be honest.
 
I like watching Destiny from time to time, he was a semi-pro SC2 player back in the day (thats how he built his fan base) and when he realized that streaming could support him he actually built a brand around himself by making his own web site (that uses the Twitch API so its still technically streaming on twitch), but he has his own subscribers (independent of twitch) some of which I think pay up to $40/mo. He also has his own iOS and Android apps for watching his stream. Pretty interesting how he "built a business" as an entertainer out of just his stream.

He also has pretty funny conversations with internet personas (look up his XJ9 interview, its super long).

He also recently talked about doing his taxes and how much of a pain it can be. Apparently a lot of his streaming equipment (computer, mic, audio stuff) can be written off as business expenses. He mentioned how a lot of SC2 pros and other streamers he knows who don't do it full-time actually don't file their taxes on it or do it correctly.

One thing thats pretty unique about his stream is that he doesn't have big sponsors (like G2A, NZXT, Kinguin, all those banner ads you see on other twitch streams). Sponsors actually pay a couple hundred per month so skipping out on them costs him a few thousand a year, if not more. I think he said he's just picky about the sponsors he wants to work with and hasn't found any good ones.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Why would you do it for such little money? Is there goal to be the next YouTube celebrity? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, are they paying taxes on it? Because if not the irs will fuck them.

Guy plays video games 60 hours a week, makes ~90k a year, and gets to write off his #1 hobby as a business expense. Yeah, why bother.
 

Demon Ice

Banned
I will never forget the day TripleWreck got a $1000 donation on his stream after his team lost to Invigorate in the first major Destiny tournament on PS4.

And I'm over here working my ass off in med school -_-

I think people don't realize the implications of having a bunch of people on the internet determining what game you play for 60 hours a week though. I've heard stories of major Destiny streamers really wanting to play some Bloodborne but their viewers all demanded PvP pub stomps lol.
 

JambiBum

Member
It's amazing to think that the most successful twitch personalities are still only making about 38k a year.

Taxing this stuff must be a nightmare.

Lirik has 10k subscribers. If that subscriber payout is the same for him as it is this guy, then he makes 20k/month on subscribers alone.
 

Ferrio

Banned
It's amazing to think that the most successful twitch personalities are still only making about 38k a year.

Taxing this stuff must be a nightmare.

Richardhammer says he pays 30% in taxes since he's self employed as a streamer. Says he makes just enough to pay his bills which are roughly 30k per year. iirc
 

Daemul

Member
I love gaming but I don't think I could do this job, it would get real boring real quick.

EDIT: Wait, 90k a year?! Fuck it, sign me up.
 

Mifec

Member
It's amazing to think that the most successful twitch personalities are still only making about 38k a year.

Taxing this stuff must be a nightmare.

They earn well in range of 500k rofl. People like Qtpie or Lirik, Summit and so on.
 
Meh the big time twitch streamers just arent fun to watch imo. at some point the actual game was more important but now its just fancy shit on screen and them begging for donations. its borderline camwhoring but without the porn!
 

Kieli

Member
I will never forget the day TripleWreck got a $1000 donation on his stream after his team lost to Invigorate in the first major Destiny tournament on PS4.

And I'm over here working my ass off in med school -_-

I think people don't realize the implications of having a bunch of people on the internet determining what game you play for 60 hours a week though. I've heard stories of major Destiny streamers really wanting to play some Bloodborne but their viewers all demanded PvP pub stomps lol.

Nothing is stopping you from becoming a Twitch streamer. Might look good when you apply for residency.

:p
 

Exile20

Member
Why would you do it for such little money? Is there goal to be the next YouTube celebrity? Doesn't seem worth it to me. Also, are they paying taxes on it? Because if not the irs will fuck them.

Did you read the post? Little money? He makes more than me for sure.
 

sweenster

Member
Finally, he has several other small revenue streamers that increase his yearly income. These are: AdSense from his website (varies), YouTube ($2,000 yearly), sponsorships (varies) and Amazon and other affiliate marketing programs (about $1,000 a month). We added his yearly income from last year up to land right around $100,000. This number will only go up if he continues to put out content and bring in new viewers.

Figured this needed to be added
 

RedAssedApe

Banned
would be interesting to see how this goes for people long term.

i would imagine donations, views and subs would start to drop off unless you're one of the lucky ones and your channel goes viral or gets mentioned by someone with a larger audience. i don't really regularly follow streamers. i usually just look to see whose streaming on live from ps when im bored or want to check out gameplay from a newly released game. i don't think i would ever pay someone or donate (unless it was for charity like Extra Life or something)
 

Blackage

Member
Yeah a lot of the top streamers just play new game after new game after new game, I rarely see them just replaying 1 game they really really enjoyed vs whatever is ultra popular at the time. It looks like pure work instead of enjoyment sometimes to me, but considering the income I totally understand now, almost 6-figures, and I'm sure easily +6-figures for the guys that got in when Twitch first took off.

One of the few streamers I know that looks like he genuinely enjoys what he plays is Max's Twitch channel, he just streams whatever the fuck he wants and still pulls in viewers/donations/subs, and he seems to enjoy what he's playing.
 
I will never forget the day TripleWreck got a $1000 donation on his stream after his team lost to Invigorate in the first major Destiny tournament on PS4.

Destiny actaully said that a lot of those big $1000 donations you see on streams are fake. He went through his donations on stream for one month and the total was like $3,000, but he pointed out a few big $500 and $1000 donations which he knew would get charged back (It's really easy with paypal to do a chargeback - I think you have up to a year?).

There was an article a couple months back about a really young streamer(12 year old?) who got like a $2k donation and used it on video games or a computer or something, and then had the donation charged back and his parents were surprised he now owed paypal $2,000.
 

weevles

Member
For six figures a year, I will slog through any games for 60 hours a week. Sounds like a fair trade off.
 
Pretty good gig if you can get big on it, but I wonder how long some of them will last. I love Twitch and watch it daily, but it'll be interesting to see how many people currently doing it for a living are still able to do so 5+ years from now.

60-40 split is lower than I thought, I was under the impression that it was 50-50. It seems like the only way to do this full time is to get some generous donations or a really hefty sub count. Neither of which is dependable and could change drastically over a month or two.

I love that people can make a living playing video games, but I imagine it can be stressful. Having to entertain people 6-7 days a week and 60 hours a week is a lot of work, and that's just on camera. Also, there really isn't any form of job security.
 
Yeah a lot of the top streamers just play new game after new game after new game, I rarely see them just replaying 1 game they really really enjoyed vs whatever is ultra popular at the time. It looks like pure work instead of enjoyment sometimes to me, but considering the income I totally understand now, almost 6-figures, and I'm sure easily +6-figures for the guys that got in when Twitch first took off.

One of the few streamers I know that looks like he genuinely enjoys what he plays is Max's Twitch channel, he just streams whatever the fuck he wants and still pulls in viewers/donations/subs, and he seems to enjoy what he's playing.

Depends on the streamer, some get so well known for playing a single game that switching can lead to a massive loss of viewership.
 
I would have thought big streamers make more than 100k, but obvioysly thats no chump change.

I also think its bullshit that twitch takes 60 percent.
 

napata

Member
OLyQNpk.png

18k in donations in 16 days. That's without subscriptions and ad revenue. 410k/year just from donations. Just seems insane.
 

Velcro Fly

Member
I thought the twitch split was 50/50. I swear they advertise it as 50/50. So if it's less than that I'd really be shocked.

Also thought they weren't allowed to talk about stuff like this.
 

Blackage

Member
Depends on the streamer, some get so well known for playing a single game that switching can lead to a massive loss of viewership.

I only know one single game streamer and he always floats around 500-750(Calebhart). Clearly the shirtless rule hurt his viewer-ship more then his game selection! :p

What single game streamers are you referring to? LoL players, Hearthstone? Do they have significant viewer-ship that dies if they try other things or is it sub 1k?
 

arevin01

Member
The downside is being glued to a computer screen 8+hours a day playing the same game over and over. Id prolly die to bordeom.
 
Depends on the streamer, some get so well known for playing a single game that switching can lead to a massive loss of viewership.

That's a really good point. I watch a few streamers who primarily play The Binding of Isaac. A game dropping in popularity could be enough to tank someone's channel.

The split for twitch isn't 60-40. The split is actually negotiable, some streamers get a better take.

That's interesting. Maybe 60-40 is just the base rate for newly partnered channels.
 
Not surprised. One popular streamer that I moderate for makes $7,000 a month from Youtube alone plus he has nearly 2000 subscribers. However, he also lives in Manhattan so that's a big cost probably.
 

Ferrio

Banned
That's interesting. Maybe 60-40 is just the base rate for newly partnered channels.

I don't know how it works. But like I said RichardHammer talks a lot about his subscribers the money he makes etc. One time he confirmed that yes some streamers get a better take than the 50/50, and alluded to that he is one of them.
 
N

NinjaFridge

Unconfirmed Member
BrownMan made around 18k on his first stream after leaving Roosterteeth/Achievement Hunter.
 

Bsigg12

Member
For six figures a year, I will slog through any games for 60 hours a week. Sounds like a fair trade off.

Well, you also need to be pretty good on camera. People who don't know how to address a camera properly and making things entertaining by maintaining conversations with the chat ultimately fall down the charts on number of viewers. The people that do really well have built a community around them by being personable and interacting with their audience. Just playing the games isn't really where this is at to be honest.

BrownMan made around 18k on his first stream after leaving Roosterteeth/Achievement Hunter.

Ray is in a good position where people know who he is before he made the transition so building a base following wasn't going to be an issue for him. He also does a good job of reading and staying with the chat so his streams are enjoyable to watch.
 

Derpcrawler

Member
I only know one single game streamer and he always floats around 500-750(Calebhart). Clearly the shirtless rule hurt his viewer-ship more then his game selection! :p

What single game streamers are you referring to? LoL players, Hearthstone? Do they have significant viewer-ship that dies if they try other things or is it sub 1k?

Trump and Kripp both lose 50-70% viewers if they play anything but Hearthstone.

Well, you also need to be pretty good on camera. People who don't know how to address a camera properly and making things entertaining by maintaining conversations with the chat ultimately fall down the charts on number of viewers. The people that do really well have built a community around them by being personable and interacting with their audience. Just playing the games isn't really where this is at to be honest.

This is correct, I am pretty good in most games. Yet when I focus on gameplay I get maybe 15-20 viewers. If I shit talk or drunk, I get 70-500 viewers. My highest stable view count was like 160 viewers for 4-5 hours straight when I was wasted playing Dark Souls.

No matter how much Gaffers moan that they want pure gameplay streams, with no camera or talk, they themselves don't watch those streams. Easy to check, get game early - start streaming as soon as Twitch lift DMCA ban, link stream on Gaf. If you just play, with no talk, no cam, no interruptions - views peak at 50 or so and then drop to 5-10 in like 2 minutes, even if you do quality stream, with high bitrate, 1080p and 60FPS where possible with external capture card. Yet, if you just shittalk, read chat etc - even on Gaf people stick around for longer.
 

smoothj

Member
Fuck man.. If I ever get laid off. I'm going to try real hard to become a twitch streamer. I have a super good idea that will make my steam special.
 

Derpcrawler

Member
Yes. I'm waiting for the bubble to burst. I hope these streamers have back up plans. The money isn't going to last forever.

People said same about YouTube, still going strong for those who got on the wagon, but YouTube is kinda over-saturated especially with people chasing PewDiePie money.
 
Good job OP for the find.

Yeah, pursuing Twitch for income is a very interesting world indeed.

My wife and I have streamed for a little over a year, with viewership only going over 100 probably once or twice. We usually play whatever we want, new games when they're released, but usually go back to old favorites once we're done. However, the big appeal for the viewership comes from the interactivity you have with them.

And so while my wife and I never got partnered (we did come close) we did receive a lot of donations. Just ballparking I would say close to $1k over the course of 8 months. People pretty much donate to keep the stream going. The donations pay for the games that otherwise we may not be able to afford, or for streaming equipment to make the channel better.

But once you start looking at numbers and really pursuing that Twitch partner money it becomes a big headache. You start trying to appease your audience and that may mean playing games you don't find that interesting. And so that big question of "why am I doing this for?" Comes into play.

The money is definitely alluring. On occasion even when we don't stream regularly it's pretty ordinary for us to stream for like an hour or so and still make about $40 for that one stream. Our followers really enjoy us and like the banter and so it's easy for us to get entangled in the "should we really go after this full-time?" Then we go over the finances of how much we make at our day-jobs (which we make a little over minimum wage) and we realize even if we went all in we still make more money now then if we did Twitch full-time.



Yes. I'm waiting for the bubble to burst. I hope these streamers have back up plans. The money isn't going to last forever.

This is also another big "what if" that comes into play. One time we did a big 48 hour marathon for a newly released game where we switched over every 8 hours. We put a lot of effort into it and our earlier marathons had got huge viewer numbers, however, one of the bigger streamers was doing a "re-run" stream. Now a re-run stream is where they practically play a video of what they streamed earlier, and which I think is complete bull, but I digress. Anyway, all of the audience for that game was going to that re-run stream and it was very deflating. It's truly very difficult to break out and get discovered and start raking in views. That being said, I wonder if it's hit critical mass and newcomers are tougher to come by since the bigger streamers have established themselves enough that there aren't many viewers to even go after. And I'm always questioning how long this will go.

Obviously Twitch has grown exponentially off the backs of a younger audience who is more interested in a personality than a static character from a cartoon. So it's hard to really know whether or not Twitch will eventually ride off into the sunset once some of the bigger streamers get tired or if that same audience will just wander off to feed off someone new. All in all it's very interesting but completely hard to prop yourself up since it's ever changing.


Anyway, just figured I'd throw in my two cents of experience.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
This is just the wild west right now, it won't be like this for long.

Yes. I'm waiting for the bubble to burst. I hope these streamers have back up plans. The money isn't going to last forever.

Highly doubtful. These streams are Twitch front-runners and fit in their economy. In order for the "bubble to burst", Twitch in its entirety would have to have a completely losing business proposition in a future technology, a very unlikely situation considering their reach on current technology (smartphones).

I'm only saying this because in 2008 people told me the same thing "YouTube bubble will pop eventually" lol. Good times.

That being said, not many people succeed in this Twitch endeavor. That's the thing to remember, it's a big business for very few.

But once you start looking at numbers and really pursuing that Twitch partner money it becomes a big headache. You start trying to appease your audience and that may mean playing games you don't find that interesting. And so that big question of "why am I doing this for?" Comes into play.

This is the main reason why I don't find a streaming career alluring.
And generally unless you luck out and passionately play a game that is already very popular, the games you love the most won't make you a big Twitch streamer.
The moment games become work, when you play games not to enjoy them but to appease an audience, would absolutely wipe me out.
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
Making $100k is an OK salary. The problem is being self employed and making $100k. The taxes truly eat into that. Not to mention having to work 60 hours a week for that $100k.
 
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