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So I just watched Star Trek Nemesis

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While the story was kind average what I really liked about this movie was how modern it makes The Next Generation look.

Compared to the TV series everything is more detailed, better costumes, designs, props, sets, the space scenes, cgi, being in widescreen etc.... Just everything.

I don't like TNG that much and it looks pretty dated even with the blurays but this movie looks gorgeous!
 

Goo

Member
I remember reading this film had lots of unused footage. I wonder if any of it was good enough to put the movie together differently or at least expand on this being the crews last mission.
 

way more

Member
how modern it makes The Next Generation look.

Compared to the TV series everything is more detailed, better costumes, designs, props, sets, the space scenes, cgi, being in widescreen etc.... Just everything.

I don't like TNG that much and it looks pretty dated even with the blurays but this movie looks gorgeous!

You liked how the movie had better production values than the TV show. That is a normal human thing.
 

jb1234

Member
It's a terrible film. I remember watching it for the first time and feeling acutely uncomfortable during Picard's toast. He was so out of character. It picks up a bit near the end with all the pretty battles but by that point, I didn't care about anything that was happening.

First Contact is by far the best TNG film.
 
mss3tto.jpg


Always throws me off that that's Tom Hardy.
 
I used to be a huge Trek nerd. Nemesis cured me of that affliction. It's so amazingly awful I can't bring myself to watch it anymore. I could watch Generations again, maybe even Final Frontier, but Nemesis has no redeeming value at all.

It's the 'last episode of Enterprise" to the original Star Trek movies.

yes, it's worse than Into Darkness, by a large margin.
 
Nemesis was mostly shit, but the middle of the film was okay and it is the only TNG movie that looks like a proper movie instead of a TV show.

I'd say it's the 2nd best TNG film behind First Contact. That just means it's the best shit TNG film.
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
The director didn't know anything about Star Trek - what is was, or what it should be - and the movie greatly suffered for it.

...

Yes, I'm talking about Nemesis.
 
There are a couple of good ideas in the story, and quite a few bad ones. Picard getting a clone is slightly hokey but it could definitely work well if everything supporting it was strong. The core idea of seeing what Picard looks like when he is raised in a hellish environment instead of a utopian one is interesting. We could explore this and this is certainly a very "Star Trek" scenario. It's hard to give it much praise beyond this though. It's a series of scenes and ideas that are not individually terrible but have very weak connective tissue.

Right off the bat there's a super flimsy excuse for getting Picard into a dune buggy with a gun on the back so we can have a car chase (or more specifically, so that Patrick Stewart could do some driving because he lives for that shit IRL) and action scene. It's not a very uh, prime directive thing to do there captain, what with that planet being prewarp and all. They all start digging up bits of a Data-like Android, fly off the planet with it and reassemble it. It's working for the bad guy, which surprises nobody. Anyway at this point the ad hoc nature of the movie sort of rears its head. Thinking logically, this is an extremely contrived and massively convoluted method for capturing Picard that could easily have failed if Picard was killed by the dangerous gang of roving primitives, or if he simply didn't show up, or if some other ship showed up first, or if they decided not to reassemble the android, or if they decided to do so extremely cautiously and keep the android under intense security since the last time they turned one on it was evil. Anyway Shinzon's plan is basically to do all this elaborate shit so that he could capture Picard to cure himself of some genetic degradation shit he has, which realistically, Picard would probably have been happy to voluntarily help him with since all it is is a blood transfusion. He needs a lot of it, but with future science, Picard could have donated blood over a period of days or weeks, or used a some fancy future tech to help speed up or the process (transporters, anyone?). Shinzon's motivations for wiping out Earth with a doomsday device are broadly unclear, he has now transformed from potentially interesting and sympathetic character to psi-rapist and zero dimensional genocidal tyrant. It feels like Earth needs to be under threat just so there are some real stakes. No real logical progression, or good reason to connect the earlier parts of the story to the latter ones involving an attack on Earth. Just all this random shit thrown together.

Tom Hardy does a solid job of looking Picardish, but beyond that we don't really get to see the whole Dark Mirror thing play out. He doesn't feel anything like Picard really. I mean it is obviously silly they made him bald too just to hammer the point home, but if that was the only major problem it would be easily forgivable. Whatever. It's a poor movie.
 

funkypie

Banned
It's comical in away. That whole intro with the quad bike and cannon. Why the fuck didn't they just fly to pick up fake data.

I was abit gutted about data though.
 

Herne

Member
The directing job should've been given to Jonathan Frakes, not someone who'd never directed anything before. A huge disappointment for the TNG crew's last outing.
 

jb1234

Member
The directing job should've been given to Jonathan Frakes, not someone who'd never directed anything before. A huge disappointment for the TNG crew's last outing.

As Insurrection proved, a good director can't save a poor script. Nemesis was fucked either way.

(But it probably would have been at least a little better with Frakes at the helm...)
 

Herne

Member
As Insurrection proved, a good director can't save a poor script. Nemesis was fucked either way.

(But it probably would have been at least a little better with Frakes at the helm...)

Yeah, the whole thing was a pretty poor excuse for a film before they ever started filming, but Frakes does well with character pieces and I feel it would definitely have been improved.
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
The directing job should've been given to Jonathan Frakes, not someone who'd never directed anything before. A huge disappointment for the TNG crew's last outing.

The two things that piss me off the most about Star Trek:

1) The Next Generation's crew didn't get a fitting swansong like the Original Series did (The Undiscovered Country is an incredible movie, and arguably the best ST movie.)
2) "These Are The Voyages..."
 
Since we are in spoiler territory...


I do not view any of this film as canon because they killed data. They fucking killed data for this trash movie.
 

Lagamorph

Member
Nemesis was still way better than Insurrection (The worst Star Trek film out of all of them) and The Final Frontier.

I also enjoyed it more than The Voyage Home. Star Trek isn't meant to be a hijinks comedy.


Since we are in spoiler territory...


I do not view any of this film as canon because they killed data. They fucking killed data for this trash movie.
He comes back in Star Trek Online, which essentially continues the film/series timeline, by hijacking B4s body completely.
 
Since we are in spoiler territory...


I do not view any of this film as canon because they killed data. They fucking killed data for this trash movie.

They just wanted to redo Spock's death from Wrath of Khan, and it was obvious Data would take over B4 completely.
 

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
And it did less, by far, for the future of the franchise than the two apparently not-at-all Star Trek movies did that JJ made.
And rightfully so. The two Abrams movies were both good movies. Nemesis is absolute shit. The only good TNG movie was First Contact. But that's ok. If you're only gonna have one good movie then at least they made sure it was really fucking good. First Contact is by far my favourite Star Trek movie.
 

Herne

Member
The two things that piss me off the most about Star Trek:

1) The Next Generation's crew didn't get a fitting swansong like the Original Series did (The Undiscovered Country is an incredible movie, and arguably the best ST movie.)
2) "These Are The Voyages..."

Fully agreed on both counts.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Anyway Shinzon's plan is basically to do all this elaborate shit so that he could capture Picard to cure himself of some genetic degradation shit he has, which realistically, Picard would probably have been happy to voluntarily help him with since all it is is a blood transfusion. He needs a lot of it, but with future science, Picard could have donated blood over a period of days or weeks, or used a some fancy future tech to help speed up or the process (transporters, anyone?).

Spock needed to donate a massive amount of blood to save his father's life in TOS.

McCoy had a drug which boosts the body's blood production.
 

JoeM86

Member
The issue with Star Trek Nemesis is that they disregarded canon a fair bit (Picard wasn't bald when he was young...good god, plus numerous other issues) just to try and make a story which didn't work. They completely chose the wrong director, too. Didn't he think Geordi was an alien?
 

Herne

Member
The issue with Star Trek Nemesis is that they disregarded canon a fair bit (Picard wasn't bald when he was young...good god, plus numerous other issues) just to try and make a story which didn't work. They completely chose the wrong director, too. Didn't he think Geordi was an alien?

He kept calling LeVar Burton "Laverne". And the issue with him being the wrong director - aside from the fact that he knew nothing about Star Trek - was that he wasn't even a director at the time, he was an editor. His directing Nemesis was a favour to Paramount (or someone high up in Paramount) so that he could edit some other film, iirc.
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Observations on Nemesis off the top of my head:

1) The entire thing with Data's twin brother was played out to hell and back by the series. If it had been Lore instead of this "B-4" that just magically came into existence, then the movie would instantly have become a hell of a lot more interesting.
2) Spiner could easily have CGI de-aging applied to him. Data's not a human, he could get away with looking overly smooth and CGI-enhanced. (I believe the excuse for killing Data was Spiner getting too old.)
3) The super-cool-awesome-OP-nerf-plz ship vs. Enterprise situation was taken directly from the Undiscovered Country, with hints of Wrath of Khan added for good mix.
4) Picard facing his past was already covered in that episode with Q and the Nausicaans.
5) I don't know what the titular "Nemesis" actually refers to. Picard's nemesis? The Enterprise's nemesis? Because the only people who fit the bill of "Picard's nemesis" is either Q or Lwaxana Troi. I put the name down to it meaning "This movie is the Nemesis of Star Trek."
6) Shinzon's entire plan, as already talked about, has so many points where it could fail and fall apart completely.
7) Shinzon could easily have went into Federation care and been patched up. I imagine that their alliance during the Dominion War has made the Federation and the Romulans ease up about the shenanigans they pulled during their cold war. That and as he is apparently a military-genius and a clone of one of the GOAT Starfleet captains, I imagine that he'd be treated with the best Starfleet medical has to offer.
8) Would hardline elements of the Romulan government/military really want to attack Earth at this moment? I know that Starfleet has taken a huge hit from the Dominion War, but you don't really want to give the already-mobilized and battle-hardened fighting force of the Federation-Klingon Alliance an excuse to go HAM on the Romulan Star Empire.
9) Janeway is an Admiral.
 
Anyway Shinzon's plan is basically to do all this elaborate shit so that he could capture Picard to cure himself of some genetic degradation shit he has, which realistically, Picard would probably have been happy to voluntarily help him with since all it is is a blood transfusion. He needs a lot of it, but with future science, Picard could have donated blood over a period of days or weeks, or used a some fancy future tech to help speed up or the process (transporters, anyone?).

Urggh, imagine killing someone by teleporting out all their blood. Horrific.
 

Measley

Junior Member
I remember really enjoying the first 10 minutes of Nemesis, and then hating the rest of it. The TNG crew just looked so old and fat that I just couldn't take them seriously. Riker's fight with the Reman, and Picard riding a dune buggy like a redneck made me cringe.

I also didn't understand the B4 subplot at all. It just seemed like a tack-on in order to not really kill Data.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
I know I saw the movie but I forgot all about it. I do recall finding it decent though. Nothing special but I didn't leave the theater hating it.
 
And rightfully so. The two Abrams movies were both good movies. Nemesis is absolute shit. The only good TNG movie was First Contact. But that's ok. If you're only gonna have one good movie then at least they made sure it was really fucking good. First Contact is by far my favourite Star Trek movie.

Word. First Contact was fantastic. I honestly don't know how insurrection and nemesis got made without multiple people saying this is a horrible idea.
 

Herne

Member
Word. First Contact was fantastic. I honestly don't know how insurrection and nemesis got made without multiple people saying this is a horrible idea.

First Contact was great apart from what they did to Picard. In the show he is intelligent, erudite and is more likely to think through situations than go all out guns blazing. He already dealt with his issues with the Borg so his anger is - not unjustified, certainly - but let's say late to the game and he lets it rule him completely in the film. Film Picard is Action Picard, and that doesn't really work coming from the man we'd gotten to know in the decade previous with the show.

To be honest, it's more Patrick Stewart's fault than anything, he wanted the action scenes.

Riker's fight with the Reman

Fun fact, that Reman was Ron Perlman.
 

Savitar

Member
It was horrible.

So much was wrong with the movie it's baffling. Thankfully just about everyone already said why.

But I'll add they pandered to Picards and Data's actors a little too much.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
2) Spiner could easily have CGI de-aging applied to him. Data's not a human, he could get away with looking overly smooth and CGI-enhanced. (I believe the excuse for killing Data was Spiner getting too old.)

The excuse was really lame. They could very easily explained away Spiner's aging by saying that Data wanted to appear more human, and thus he modified himself gradually to adapt his 'age' to his naturally aging friends. I mean Spiner already looked much older than during his first appearance in TNG, so if that bothered them they would have had to explain it already anyway.

To make things worse, they added B4 as a loophole to retain the character of Data, which makes absolutely no sense if Spiner did not want to play Data anymore.

It still pains me that one of my favorite TNG characters was killed off in a movie with such a bad plot.
 
Who knew that Patric Stewart was closer like the guy in Extras than Picard of the TV show. Actually, I'd prefer version of Nemesis, where we would have seen everything...
 

jb1234

Member
But I'll add they pandered to Picards and Data's actors a little too much.

All four TNG movies have a heavy Picard and Data focus. I get they're the most popular characters but man, I felt so bad for Dr. Crusher, who gets practically nothing to do.
 
It's the only Star Trek movie to come out this century.

It wasn't a "Star Trek movie," at least by the dubious metrics so called "true fans" use to decry the Abrams films, and, in fact, Nemesis was action schlock just like them, though at least the Abrams films were executed well and entertaining.
 
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