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[Mendax]

So having a contrary opinion is "hating" now?

I'm glad for Shenmue fans, but the ramifications of this will be big.

saying sony is scummy to allow Suzuki some time on their veeery expensive stage is not a contrary opinion.

saying it is bad practice to use a kickstarter to kickstart a game is not a contrary opinion.

its pure vitriol.

 

[Zeyphersan]

So now that they've gauged the interest Sony knows it will be successful and cancel the kickstarter right? I mean they don't need the money

 

[xHunter]

Never ever call crowdfunding a preorder.

There are 2 big differences.

With a preorder you aren't committing your money until the game is shipped. With crowdfunding the money is theirs once the funding goal is reached.

With a preorder you can call the cops if you get scammed. With crowdfunding the government says such campaigns that try to offer profit sharing options are illegal. That's why they only offer gifts or dreams.

You aren't making a purchase. You are making a donation.

The FTC in the US is reconsidering their stance on this since they went after a campaign where the fundraiser never started work on his project but obviously big companies like Sony can start a project let it die off and never be required to refund you for a failed development project.

since sony is now supporting them, wouldnt that make this problem non existent?


fans will get the game for 29$ dollars. i dont see the problem here.

 

[No_Style]

This practice happened a number of times already. Kickstarter is a funding source and for established devs, it's never the only funding source. I have no problems with this as it is a means to have everyone put their money where their mouth is. In fact, I rather have it this way than have a Kickstarter be the only funding source and a final product may not even materialize.

 

[Nickle]

No, we should continue to support risky business that has been known to tank more developers than any other art/entertainment industry.

I think both risks are merited. Nothing wrong with this. They do not force you to fund it. If it does not get any Kickstarter interest, then it shows the game would have been a flop more than likely.

Scummy in what world? They let the fans be a part of helping and the response was overwhelming. Now Sony is going to jump in with the rest. The game is going to be made and we all win.

I just think that there is a better way to gauge fan interest then with a kickstarter that was obviously going to be funded.

 

[RiccochetJ]

Hell, if it gets riskier projects off the ground then I'm all for it. We might see publishers take more chances if this is the end result.

 

[Palette Swap]

Of course they weren't going to fund a game like this with 2 (or 10) million bucks. It was obvious some investors would come along at one point. It was very likely that said investors would be publishers and/or platform holders.

As long as people get what they pledged for, I see no issue.

Let's not pretend they had a ton of alternatives. AFAIK, the choice was between this and nothing. It's safe to assume any other option would have happened over the past decade.

Edit: and yes, crowdfunding is neither an investment nor a preorder. It's good will funding with the hope the project comes out and gives the promised rewards. I have an intuition most people not understanding that are people who don't actually use KS.

 

[dani_dc]

The downside is that some people thought that these funds were required for the game, and donated much more than the $60 cost of a game. 4 different people donated $10k, and many people put in $100 or more in hopes that their 14 year wait will finally end.

It's a scam playing on the emotions of those of us who have been waiting years to finish the saga. It is just "gauging interest" to them, but some of us thought that this kickstarter was absolutely needed to start development and donated a lot to make that happen.

I'd agree that this should be disclosed at the kickstarter page itself.

But its also important to notice thst no one donate anything yet, you only pay after the kickstarter ends, anyone displeased with the news can just cancel their pledge and not a single dollar will have been moved out of their account.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I wanted to cry when I found out that this was even a possibility, however, I think this approach is very dangerous, and I hope it doesn't become the norm.

 

[FreddieQuell]

Kickstarter was made to fund development without the need for a third party. When other investors help it is usually expressed clearly on the page.

So you thought Shenmue 3 could be made on a 2 Mil budget? LOL.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I don't quite understand the logic. Ok, there's proven interest, but the people who are seriously interested all just bought a copy of the game and paid for it already. Now they're going to have to generate another $20-30+ million in revenue from somewhere else to recoup the costs they're going to have to add to the games budget.

The whole kickstarter thing itself generates a huge buzz.

 

[Eila]

Acording to my old EGM (Game mag from the 90's)
it's says shenmue cost exceeded 100 million dollars?

Was this ever true?

edit:

US$70 million
"Shenmue on the Dreamcast is more notorious for its overambitious budget than its poor sales figures.
While it sold a respectable number of units, at the time of release, the game had the record for
the most expensive production costs (over US$70 million), and its production time was 5 years.


So my question is:
Is sony paying for the other 65 million dollars?

http://www.destructoid.com/yu-suzuki-teases-shenmue-3-at-gdc-though-not-guaranteed-195502.phtml
First Shenmue cost 47 million, according to the creator of Shenmue.
And this won't have the biggest budget of all time, like Shenmue did back in the day. That much is clear to me. It'll be a fraction of what GTAV cost.

 

[Nafai1123]

Because they only wanted to gauge interest, if that's true, they should close it and fund the rest themselves and accept traditional preorders going forward.

They've reached their goalz now's the time to show that this wasn't just a cash grab.

So they should cancel the KS and make everyone pre-order the game for $60 instead of $30?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I would imagine now that they are coming out as officially backing it they will close the KS but it was the only way this game was getting made guys. The last game didn't set the world on fire sales wise and the only way for Sony to see if this has any viable true market interest and is not just the deafening cry repeated over and over by the most loyal fans was a chance to get them to put their money where their mouth was. I don't understand how people don't get this

I think the platform it was on had a lot to do with the sales. But that is neither here nor there some 10+ years later, and I agree with your assessment.

 

[Compsiox]

So now that they've gauged the interest Sony knows it will be successful and cancel the kickstarter right? I mean they don't need the money

This.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

This thread is incredible.

Let's break this down: Shenmue 3 is getting made because it was partially funded by fans on Kickstarter, and partially funded by a major publisher.

I don't see the problem. Don't buy it if you don't want to support...standard capitalistic practices, I guess?

 

[The_Inquisitor]

You know, a lot of the people who are saying Kickstarter is evil are the same people who complained about the cost of adding extra DLC characters for that fighting game. Getting investors for a relatively niche series as Shenmue is hard. Kickstarter is a perfect vehicle for a case like this to prove to investors there is a ROI for this release.

This.

Wrong. Any extra money goes toward developing a better product. You don't want the product to be better with additional funds? That's insane.

 

[King Beyond the wall]

I have one concern. Kickstarter was exciting because it let the dev retain full control over the product so they could digital their vision without publishers meddling and diluting what the game might be.

Sony getting back involved worries me, I just hope they find it and mostly stay hands off.

Thank heavens it's not ea, activision, or ubi.

Sony are famously 'hands off' publishers so don't worry about that.

The funding from Sony is necessary for such a project like this because the huge amount of investment necessary for it to be the full fledged sequel we all want. If it was just the kickstarter money the quality and scope would most likely be less than it can be with a consistent source of money.

 

[PdotMichael]

I have one concern. Kickstarter was exciting because it let the dev retain full control over the product so they could digital their vision without publishers meddling and diluting what the game might be.

That's bullshit. No game of worth was fully funded with Kickstarter. It's just supposed to kickstart something and not to replace a business plan.

 

[KillerSloth]

Why are people complaining? The majority of people who have contributed so far are getting a copy of the game for $29.

Yes please, that's a bargain.

If anything I am happier Sony have stepped in as it pretty much guarantees its completion. The risks associated have become much, much smaller.

Seems like a great deal to me.

 

[Nanashrew]

Acording to my old EGM (Game mag from the 90's)
it's says shenmue cost exceeded 100 million dollars?

Was this ever true?

edit:

US$70 million
"Shenmue on the Dreamcast is more notorious for its overambitious budget than its poor sales figures.
While it sold a respectable number of units, at the time of release, the game had the record for
the most expensive production costs (over US$70 million), and its production time was 5 years.


So my question is:
Is sony paying for the other 65 million dollars?

Krejilooc brought up that Shenmue actually costs about $40m to make largely because they built a new engine and everything. This time they're using Unreal 4 so it would require a lot less money to make.

 

[xxracerxx]

They could have completed the original vision of the series back on the first Xbox a decade ago if they wanted to. I'm not sure it would have been a sound investment then. I'm not sure it's a sound investment now, but I certainly appreciate it.

It is going to be a messed up NPD thread the month this game releases. Oh boy.

 

[StoopKid]

That's a nice way of taking advantage of the fans and getting free money, I guess. Kudos to them.

How is it free money when the fans get the game?

 

[Dictator93]

Self righteous message board whiners, basically.

I am not sure if it means being self righteous, just rather wishing that kickstarter was a more idealistic funding platform.

I like the idea of less large corporations being involved. Call me old fashioned perhaps.

 

[erlim]

WTF is this. Put Ryo in Street Fighter V now.

 

[SporeCrawler]

So you prefer no game?

as posted before next e3 we will get call of duty kickstarter with multi modes as stretch goals

 

[cclittle]

I can't believe all pearl clutching about this kickstarter approach. It got us Shenmue fucking III. You can't be certain that would have happened any other way.

I agree that the overall effect on future development is worth talking about, but I'm too excited about the existence of Shenmue goddam III to care how it gets made.

 

[Mory Dunz]

FFVIIR will probably end up being PS4 and PC exclusive just like the original was.

Wait, is Sony helping with the costs?

I know it's "first" on PS4 so there's some kind of transaction.

But is it like Tomb Raider or SF5???


Doesn't really affect me since I'm WiiU/PC but curious

 

[tiebreaker]

Based on the video from the kickstarter's page, I highly doubt this game will get funded this much and this quickly without Sony. Being on stage on Sony's conference exposes the game not only to the fans of the previous installments, but to a large mass of audience.

 

[Soi-Fong]

Y's net is gonna need help with marketing and Sony will be doing that in spades.

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

Paying? Lol. So those people who purchase enormous items that they probably would of been gouged out on Ebay for is now PR?

This practice just rubs me the wrong way entirely - I think it's the first time a Kickstarter has been created with the developers KNOWING they have direct financial support from a multinational corporation?

Adam Boyes: "We have nothing to do with this!!!"

Shady.

Such a shame too, I love Shenmue and Yu Suzuki.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Based Sony.

 

[Reset]

It is Now.

Doesn't Sega still own the IP?
Plus it's being released on the PC. It's not a Sony game.

 

[Fdkn]

I don't mind the "gauging interest" approach to Kickstarter, but one thing I don't understand is the economics of it. The most passionate fans who are donating to the Kickstarter are already going to receive a copy of the game. Are they just assuming there are a lot of other fans, that aren't contributing to the Kickstarter, who will buy the game at its time of release? How else do they justify piling on more funding?

Not everyone interested in the game will pledge on kickstarter... if that were the case, there is no point of releasing the game after its done, they should just send the game to the backers and call it a day

 

[Newtype-001]

Whats even more funny is people thought Shenmue 3 was going to be made in Unreal Engine 4 with a 2mill budget

 

[Sorian]

Person I quoted edited their post, nvm.

 

[Kyuur]

Is that a backhanded " Don't voice dissent?"

It's a "why do you care how a game is funded if you aren't putting any money into it". People who backed originally and are now shocked at this news can just cancel. There is no trickery here.

 

[Hot Coldman]

External funding was an obvious factor but I seriously didn't think it would be Sony. Guess some things are as obvious as they seem.

 

[Dugna]

Didn't people go batshit when Zach Braff did this for his film and when Peter Molyneux did it for his mobile game (although there were some other caveats in Molyneux's case). So is it ok now just because this game was presumably dead?

because those two can probably self fund their new IP from constant game making or from being a TV star with a decent amount of cash. Yu couldn't do any of that.

 

[ps3ud0]

And the fans who backed it will get the game, others an expensive jacket, others a special lunch with the creator (a once in a lifetime deal) and other cool stuff. Fans should be proud of themselves for making this happen and obviously their money won't be in vain. They revived that game from the dead.

This is one part of the approach I dont mind, gamers that really wanted this put their money where their mouth is - I doubt Sony needs that investment but to understand that theres real paying customers for such a risky venture (lets be honest the other Shenmues never sold well) is decisive.

For backers it feels like ownership that they got this ball rolling - I cant really see how this isnt a win-win

ps3ud0 8)

 

[FreddieQuell]

So now that they've gauged the interest Sony knows it will be successful and cancel the kickstarter right? I mean they don't need the money

So all the $30 backers are going to turn in their game and buy it a release for $60 right?

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

I like this "gauge interest" approach versus the nebulous avenues they used to gauge interest for these types of games before. Like capcom "tests" where buying one game theoretically got you the game you actually wanted. Or asking vaguely for fan support and people needing to orchestrate things like operation rainfall. Or putting together useless internet petitions. Or seeing a random dev begging for help from his few thousand twitter followers. Basically all weird indirect ways of voicing interest.

Dollars speak the loudest. They've also generated lots of hype that'll get casual/non-fans to buy it. They havent taken risk out of the equation and i could very easily see a situation where shenmue 3 doesnt sell well, but if this method gets some riskier games out, lets enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Lightning Count]

Great news, my condolences to Xbox owners who were hoping this would be on the Xbox One.

With Sony officially backing the product, we know we're going to get some high quality stuff, Suzuki's bringing his own guys over and I'm sure Sony will lend them some help from their top drawer first party development teams.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The "guage interest" excuse only works if they're planning on giving all that money back

This is ridiculous. Why would they give the money back. The money any contributors put forward will get them the game when it releases. It's more or less a pre-order.

 

[Uno Venova]

So now that they've gauged the interest Sony knows it will be successful and cancel the kickstarter right? I mean they don't need the money

I don't think that's how kickstarter works, they have stretch goals.

 

[Zombie James]

So now that they've gauged the interest Sony knows it will be successful and cancel the kickstarter right? I mean they don't need the money

You realize people are getting something in return for their money, right?

 

[IzzyF3]

So Sony is not only forking up the money to get Suikoden 2 and Yakuza 5 out on PSN, but now they are helping fund a game that many fans want to see the ending to? Wow. I'm even hearing how they are helping fund FFVII's remake. Sony's god to me at this point.

 

[Messofanego]

I don't quite understand the logic. Ok, there's proven interest, but the people who are seriously interested all just bought a copy of the game and paid for it already. Now they're going to have to generate another $20-30+ million in revenue from somewhere else to recoup the costs they're going to have to add to the games budget.

Plenty of Kickstarted games become big sellers still on release, so it doesn't automatically mean the pool of sales runs out with a crowdfunding campaign.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Well then

Speaking of Dylan Jobe, where the hell is Warhawk 2?! What's he been up to?

 

[KingSnake]

I have only one issue with this, the fact that Sony is funding a big part of the development should be clearly stated on kickstarter page. It's a factor and a risk in the development of the game.