Support NeoGAF

[sörine]

Posting pop gifs doesn't make your favorite system not a flop, roflT presdT

"Dominate Japan" he said, open those eyes up son. They can't be that damaged already.

Nintendo's the biggest fish in a drying pond. The amount of support sunk into Wii U versus PS4, and the resulting (terrible) sales we've seen from both as a result, is pretty eye opening.

I sort of wonder if Japanese 3rd parties had backed Wii U in the way they're throwing support down the PS4 drain if there might actually be a glimmer of hope for Japan's console industry? Not that any of this really matters for NX, which is undoubtedly going to debut as a handheld.

 

[Rodin]

Also I had reviews were mediocre in comparison to Xenoblade

No they weren't.

Bad word of mouth is the single western preview? Because import thread was pretty positive about the game, even if not GIÀ as xeno on wii. Xcx soldi around 130k with digital sales while the original sold around 190k on the 12 millions wii in japan. Dont know wha People where expecting honestly. Splatoon is one of a kind.

Actually, we have two western (import) reviews for XenoX.

Dualshockers - 9.5
NWR - 9

Also Siliconera (i think it was them) impressions were super positive. I still don't understand why nobody gives a shit about these, all i hear is "famitsu gave it a bad score" and "amazon.jp reviews are bad" and "a couple of guys in the import thread didn't enjoy it so it's crap".

lmao

What is this?

I sort of wonder if Japanese 3rd parties had backed Wii U in the way they're throwing support down the PS4 drain if there might actually be a glimmer of hope for Japan's console industry? Not that any of this really matters for NX, which is undoubtedly going to debut as a handheld.

We don't really know how NX is going to debut and what kind of support it's going to have. Square seems to be onboard, and that's something (no, DQX being on the Wii U at launch isn't the same thing), but who knows about everything and everyone else.

 

[Lexxism]

lmao

We don't even know if it is a console

 

[Mpl90]

Today, The Battle Cats on 3DS reached 200,000 downloads. Time for an updated sales analysis

May 31st - launch
June 26th - 100,000*
July 11th - around 140,000**
August 6th - 200,000

Amount of days to reach 100,000 - 27 days.
Amount of days to go from 100,000 to 200,000 - 41 days

First 100,000 in 27 days --> 3,703 per day/25,925 per week
Second 100,000 in 41 days --> 2,439 per day/17,073 per week
_____________________________________________________

Amount of days to go from 100,000 to 140,000 - 14 days
Amount of days to go from 140,000 to 200,000 - 26 days

40,000 in 14 days - 2,857 per day/20,000 per week
60,000 in 26 days - 2,308 per day/16,154 per week

______________________________________________________

Going by this analysis, it seems the game's sales pace has decreased since the first month, and it's still decreasing, but very, very slowly, especially considering how surely the debut week had higher sales than the first 4 weeks' average.

This can give us some indications about how new entries (both digital only and retail + digital) have been doing on eShop in the past weeks, at least top new releases. Remember: eShop Charts have a different criteria to track sales, since they consider sales between 2 weeks prior when you check them and the exact moment you check them. For example: if a game, right now, is first on the eShop, it's not just because it's currently doing better than any other game, but it's because its sales have been higher than all the other games between July 23rd and today, August 6th.

 

[sörine]

What games are ahead of Battle Cats on the all-time eShop charts?

 

[Mpl90]

What games are ahead of Battle Cats on the all-time eShop charts?

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/software/ranking.html

First chart, there are two options: Current (which should be the default option) and All-Time Charts.

If you can't check the website currently

1. Animal Crossing: New Leaf
2. Pokémon Dream Radar
3. Monster Hunter 4
4. Pokémon Link: Battle!
5. Bike Rider DX
6. Super Mario Bros.
7. Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary Mini
8. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
9. Super Mario Bros. 3
10. 10 Second Run
11. Kirby Fighter Z
12. Denpa Men

 

[hiska-kun]

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/3ds/software/ranking.html

First chart, there are two options: Current (which should be the default option) and All-Time Charts.

If you can't check the website currently

1. Animal Crossing: New Leaf
2. Pokémon Dream Radar
3. Monster Hunter 4
4. Pokémon Link: Battle!
5. Bike Rider DX
6. Super Mario Bros.
7. Puyo Puyo!! 20th Anniversary Mini
8. Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
9. Super Mario Bros. 3
10. 10 Second Run
11. Kirby Fighter Z
12. Denpa Men

Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate digital sales, might be close to 200k then.

 

[Xbro]

You know it wouldn't surprise me if Animal Crossing had >700K of digital sales.

 

[test_account]

I sort of wonder if Japanese 3rd parties had backed Wii U in the way they're throwing support down the PS4 drain if there might actually be a glimmer of hope for Japan's console industry? Not that any of this really matters for NX, which is undoubtedly going to debut as a handheld.

How would that situation be any different?

 

[Maniel]

How would that situation be any different?

It would be worse because then those games would be selling terrible in the west too.

 

[sörine]

How would that situation be any different?

Because then we'd have both a first party (and the biggest publisher in the industry) and 3rd parties that can drive hardware sales focusing on building the same platform. Maybe it wouldn't move the needle much, or maybe if Nintendo's tentpoles had filler support the system would make things sustainable. We'll never know though so it's a bit pointless.

It would be worse because then those games would be selling terrible in the west too.

Japanese 3rd party PS4/One games aren't already selling terrible in the west too?

 

[impact]

Japanese 3rd party PS4/One games aren't already selling terrible in the west too?

Outside of Toukiden (Tecmo releasing this game the same time as Bloodborne LOLLOLOLOLOL) what Japanese 3rd party games are selling terrible in the west on PS4/XB1?

 

[sörine]

Outside of Toukiden (Tecmo releasing this game the same time as Bloodborne LOLLOLOLOLOL) what Japanese 3rd party games are selling terrible in the west on PS4/XB1?

What games have sold well is probably the better question to ask. All I can really come up with are MGSVGZ and FFXIV?

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Type 0 kinda bombed in the west.

I can't wait for it to hit Steam, someone needs to buy that game so we can have a sequel.

 

[Nirolak]

It depends what we're talking about.

If we're asking for Japanese games that can compete with a standard Western blockbuster sales wise, there are almost none.

If we're talking about niche games selling enough that the companies find them worthwhile repeat ventures, there are a lot.

 

[Maniel]

What i meant is would any of those games sell better if they were on wii u instead of ps4 in the west. I doubt the extra sales from the higher wii u install base in japan would be enough to off set the gains from the huge ps4 install base in the west. I do agree with Nirolak though because it does depend on the type of game.

 

[Parakeetman]

It depends what we're talking about.

If we're asking for Japanese games that can compete with a standard Western blockbuster sales wise, there are almost none.

If we're talking about niche games selling enough that the companies find them worthwhile repeat ventures, there are a lot.

Basically this.

Its a constant irritation in these threads that some people seem to always be expecting Western numbers. Or basically that is all they are comparing things to with their knowledge of things related to sales numbers.

 

[sörine]

It depends what we're talking about.

If we're asking for Japanese games that can compete with a standard Western blockbuster sales wise, there are almost none.

If we're talking about niche games selling enough that the companies find them worthwhile repeat ventures, there are a lot.

Would the the niche fanbases for things like Neptunia or Musou really be impacted much by a less popular system though? Wouldn't they have just like, bought a Wii U if that's where their games went? They bought Vitas and that's an even less popular western platform with much worse western software sales overall.

What i meant is would any of those games sell better if they were on wii u instead of ps4 in the west

How about rather than "instead of", why not "in addition to"? It's not like most of the games aren't on PS3, Vita, 360, Steam or One also already anyway.

The point was more that the inordinate 3rd party effort being funneled into PS4 might have a better chance of sustainably driving a console in Japan if Nintendo's system sellers were also pushing things. With split support, do you think the Japanese console industry really has a better shot?

 

[impact]

What games have sold well is probably the better question to ask. All I can really come up with are MGSVGZ and FFXIV?

So your answer to my question is the reverse question? I dunno man, I thought MGS did well for a $30 demo, FFX HD probably did well considering it cost SE $2.50 to port, Type-0 bombed because it's a terrible game and an even worse port (PSP FoV is not OK SE, pls l2p), DS2 SotFS I don't think we know any numbers, Bloodborne has done really well (yea first party but I'm running out of Japanese games on PS4) and I dunno what else there is

I dunno how we can come to a conclusion either way considering it's just all ports, demo and Bloodborne.

 

[Nirolak]

Would the the niche fanbases for things like Neptunia or Musou really be impacted much by a less popular system though? Wouldn't they have just like, bought a Wii U if that's where their games went? They bought Vitas and that's an even less popular western platform with much worse western software sales overall.

They seem to notably benefit from being on popular systems.

For example, Neptunia on Steam: http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Neptunia

Neptunia 1:
Owners: 162,072 ± 10,224

Neptunia 2 (not been through the heavy sale cycle yet):
Owners: 71,319 ± 6,783

These are quite good sales for a product like this.

And that's before we even get to games like Valkyria:

Owners: 469,147 ± 17,384

Or Dragon Ball, which has not went below $25:

Owners: 328,876 ± 14,559

 

[Maniel]

How about rather than "instead of", why not "in addition to"? It's not like most of the games aren't on PS3, Vita, 360, Steam or One also already anyway.

The point was more that the inordinate 3rd party effort being funneled into PS4 might have a better chance of sustainably driving a console in Japan if Nintendo's system sellers were also pushing things. With split support, do you think the Japanese console industry really has a better shot?

Of course the market would be better if wii u and ps4 had multi plat releases, but wii u doesn't support all of the engines that ps4 does. As the market is now, I believe that 3rd party games releasing only on ps4 (and ps3/psv) makes more sense. Let's say you own a Japanese company and estimate that your game will sell about 20-30% less on ps4 instead of wii u in Japan, but you also see that Japan is a shrinking market for console games. Unless you are making a niche game, you almost have no choice but to pick ps4. Even if you are making a niche game, you would be better off picking ps4/PS3/psv.

Edit: If NX is a handheld that can support the engines ps4 can, then it will definitely help revitalize the market.

 

[Wiggy]

. With split support, do you think the Japanese console industry really has a better shot?

Yeah i agree, I was saying this before DQ11 was announced. The west only got stronger when 3rd party exclusives got fazed out. Stuff like MH, YW, DQ, FF, MGS etc would sell enough on any platform, I think it hurts the industry carving different pieces for each console.

 

[Mory Dunz]

PS4 1.646.415
WIU 2.478.738

Top 5 Software

1. New Super Mario Bros U - 1,217,591
2. Mario Kart 8 - 1,082,084
3. Wii Party U - 799,873
4. Super Smash Bros - 662,935
5. Super Mario 3D World - 602,234

1. Knack - 400,888
2. Dragon Quest Heroes - 321,526
3. Bloodborne - 203,798
4. GTA V - 182,305
5. MGS V Ground Zeroes - 151,220

Why.gif

 

[sörine]

They seem to notably benefit from being on popular systems.

For example, Neptunia on Steam: http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Neptunia

Neptunia 1:
Owners: 162,072 ± 10,224

Neptunia 2 (not been through the heavy sale cycle yet):
Owners: 71,319 ± 6,783

These are quite good sales for a product like this.

And that's before we even get to games like Valkyria:

Owners: 469,147 ± 17,384

Or Dragon Ball, which has not went below $25:

Owners: 328,876 ± 14,559

Valkyria and the Compile Heart games all already launched at budget pricing though. Steam seems like a great aftermarket or multiplatform target but I'm not sure if it can really sustain Japanese development as a primary platform. How would Valkyria have sold as a $60 Steam exclusive for example?

I did forget Xenoverse though. That game has sold stupidly well in the west on everything. It might be the best selling Japanese 3rd party PS4 game overall actually.

 

[Vena]

Yeah i agree, I was saying this before DQ11 was announced. The west only got stronger when 3rd party exclusives got fazed out. Stuff like MH, YW, DQ, FF, MGS etc would sell enough on any platform, I think it hurts the industry carving different pieces for each console.

If its a community oriented game, then one platform will sometimes make sense for not splitting the playerbase. If its really about local play that can't be done over alien hardware then one platform will get phased out one way or the other by popular vote of the userbase.

 

[Wiggy]

If its a community oriented game, then one platform will sometimes make sense for not splitting the playerbase. If its really about local play that can't be done over alien hardware then one platform will get phased out one way or the other by popular vote of the userbase.

The west handles these problems fine.

 

[Vena]

The west handles these problems fine.

The west has like no local play community that isn't StreetPass and/or Pokemon clubs.

(Also online multiplayer games die way too fast if they aren't named CoD and/or Battlefield and/or Madden/FIFA and/or Destiny for this to be true. It handles it poorly, if anything, outside of small sustained userbases per console per online environment outside of the monolith software giants.)

 

[HGH]

Well Dragon Ball is a strong, well established IP at this point. Combined with the nature of the game being an MMO, I don't think the price had that much of an impact.

They seem to notably benefit from being on popular systems.

For example, Neptunia on Steam: http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Neptunia

Neptunia 1:
Owners: 162,072 ± 10,224

Neptunia 2 (not been through the heavy sale cycle yet):
Owners: 71,319 ± 6,783

These are quite good sales for a product like this.

And that's before we even get to games like Valkyria:

Owners: 469,147 ± 17,384

Or Dragon Ball, which has not went below $25:

Owners: 328,876 ± 14,559

As long as we're addressing this subject, let's look at Koei Tecmo games . Seems like consistent failures across the board.
Of course, we have to take into consideration whether they're "bad ports", lacking features, badly priced, or a combination of all those things.

But yeah, I love to imagine what would happen if someone like Atlus released games on PC.

 

[sörine]

Yeah i agree, I was saying this before DQ11 was announced. The west only got stronger when 3rd party exclusives got fazed out. Stuff like MH, YW, DQ, FF, MGS etc would sell enough on any platform, I think it hurts the industry carving different pieces for each console.

At this point I think it's all academic given Wii U's a clear dead end and Nintendo are looking to move on already. PS4's likely a dead end too but we'll have a clearer picture there in another year or two after SE fires their guns. I sort of think Nintendo might not even bother with the NX console in Japan either if most of the games are playable on the handheld anyway.

 

[Nirolak]

Well Dragon Ball is a strong, well established IP at this point. Combined with the nature of the game being an MMO, I don't think the price had that much of an impact.

As long as we're addressing this subject, let's look at Koei Tecmo games . Seems like consistent failures across the board.
Of course, we have to take into consideration whether they're "bad ports", lacking features, badly priced, or a combination of all those things.

But yeah, I love to imagine what would happen if someone like Atlus released games on PC.

Yes, Koei has the worst success of pretty much any Japanese publisher on Steam by orders of magnitude, it's amazing.

 

[Wiggy]

The west has like no local play community that isn't StreetPass and/or Pokemon clubs.

(Also online multiplayer games die way too fast if they aren't named CoD and/or Battlefield and/or Madden/FIFA and/or Destiny for this to be true. It handles it poorly, if anything, outside of small sustained userbases per console per online environment outside of the monolith software giants.)

The games make lots and lots money, which is what matters.

I sort of think Nintendo might not even bother with the NX console in Japan either if most of the games are playable on the handheld anyway.

Really? You think'll give up on a home console before even Xbox does?

 

[Vena]

The games make lots and lots money, which is what matters.

Huh? Not sure where you're going with this from where we started...

 

[Wiggy]

Huh? Not sure where you're going with this from where we started...

Sorry, I meant the quickly dying online communities!

People buy the game play it for a while get bored then buy the next game.

 

[Vena]

Sorry, I meant the quickly dying online communities!

People buy the game play it for a while get bored then buy the next game.

This is bad for long-term growth/fan-care and monetization for increased RoI, meaning opportunity costs skyrocket on the investment.

 

[test_account]

Because then we'd have both a first party (and the biggest publisher in the industry) and 3rd parties that can drive hardware sales focusing on building the same platform. Maybe it wouldn't move the needle much, or maybe if Nintendo's tentpoles had filler support the system would make things sustainable. We'll never know though so it's a bit pointless.

Fair enough. I'm not sure if there are tons of people who drops out on buying a system if games are split between the systems though (for example, that one system with 500 games would sell a lot more compared to two systems with 250 games each). But yeah, its just speculation either way, so its not something that we will know, indeed.

 

[Wiggy]

This is bad for long-term growth/fan-care and monetization for increased RoI, meaning opportunity costs skyrocket on the investment.

I dont know what to say, the west has made it work ¯\_(&#12484_/¯.

 

[Vena]

I dont know what to say, the west has made it work ¯\_(&#12484_/¯.

Well, as I said, only for the really big brands.

I'm not saying its bad either way, I am saying that some types of games have a lot to gain from singular communities, and will tend to lead to a soft of "natural selection" of a singular platform if they don't support play over alien hardware. Single-player or minor online component games have nothing to lose from being on every hardware imaginable.

 

[Wiggy]

Well, as I said, only for the really big brands.

Yeah big brands like MH, DQ, FF, YW. Back to my original point, they would make enough money on anything lol

I'm not saying its bad either way, I am saying that some types of games have a lot to gain from singular communities, and will tend to lead to a soft of "natural selection" of a singular platform if they don't support play over alien hardware. Single-player or minor online component games have nothing to lose from being on every hardware imaginable.

Yeah sure, I get that. I just think the games are big enough to sustain easily sustain several communities like many western games do. They are leaving a lot of money on the table and hurting the industry IMO.

 

[Vena]

Yeah big brands like MH, DQ, FF, YW. Back to my original point, they would make enough money on anything lol

Read the addendum above, they would make money on anything but the consumer base would naturally cull the less popular segment when games are heavily community focused.

 

[Rymuth]

Has Square-Enix's performance been posted?

Despite a lack of AAA blockbuster new releases, sales and profits have both been trending upward year-over-year.

The company cited its PC browser game Sengoku IXA as a strong performer, along with a raft of smartphone titles like Dragon Quest Monsters Super Light, Schoolgirl Strikers, and Final Fantasy Record Keeper. On the console front, the publisher was pleased with the performance of its downloadable catalog titles, as well as newly released expansions for Final Fantasy XIV and the Japan-exclusive Dragon Quest X.

For the three months ended June 30, Square Enix sales were up 12 percent year-over-year to ¥42.3 billion yen ($339.1 million). Net profit was up 76 percent to ¥6 billion yen ($48.1 million). Despite that first quarter performance, the company left its full-year forecasts unchanged.

GI-BIZ

 

[hiska-kun]

First Day Sell-Through {2015.08.06}

[PSV] Luminous Arc: Infinity <SLG> (Marvelous) (¥7.344) - 40% low numbers

[PS4] [PSV] Gal Gun: Double Peace # <ACT> (Alchemist) (¥8.424) (¥7.344) - 40-50% the PS4 is selling a little more, still low numbers

[3DS] Nobunaga's Ambition 2 # <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥5.184) - 20%
[3DS] Romance of the Three Kingdoms 2 <SLG> (Koei Tecmo) (¥5.184) - 20%

[XB1] Rare Replay - you know what

Very slow releases overall

 

[Hero of Legend]

First Day Sell-Through {2015.08.06}

[PSV] Luminous Arc: Infinity <SLG> (Marvelous) (¥7.344) - 40% low numbers

Stella Glow was also around that at "almost 40%:

http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166509956&postcount=414

Do you remember if that's like 39% or 41%? I would assume almost is just below?

And its FW:

MC: 04./00. [3DS] Stella Glow <RPG> (Sega) {2015.06.04} (¥6.469) - 13.332 / NEW
Famitsu: 02./00. [3DS] Stella Glow <RPG> (Sega) {2015.06.04} (¥6.469) - 16.875 / NEW <60-80%>

 

[vinnygambini]

DeNA Q1 Results:

Net Sales: ¥37.7 billion
Operating Income: ¥4.0 billion
Net Income: ¥2.2 billion

Until their new pillars business (Nintendo, joint-ventures initiative, Myanimelist, etc.) commence, DeNA will continue to maintain the status quo and stay the course.

A mentioned highlight would be that DeNA is now among the top 10 App Store Top Grossing Ranking by Publisher based on App Annie June 2015 results

http://v4.eir-parts.net/v4Contents/View.aspx?template=ir_material&sid=42938&code=2432

 

[And_Gignac]

PS4 1.646.415
WIU 2.478.738

Top 5 Software

1. New Super Mario Bros U - 1,217,591
2. Mario Kart 8 - 1,082,084
3. Wii Party U - 799,873
4. Super Smash Bros - 662,935
5. Super Mario 3D World - 602,234

1. Knack - 400,888
2. Dragon Quest Heroes - 321,526
3. Bloodborne - 203,798
4. GTA V - 182,305
5. MGS V Ground Zeroes - 151,220

Yeeeeesss. Tell´em.

 

[HGH]

You know what, I've wanted to say this for a long time.
3DS basically massacres any 3rd party release that isn't a core Nintendo franchise or some mass appeal game(Monster Hunter, Youkai Watch). It's honestly getting painful to watch devs keep trying at it. So why do they? It's obvious the fish aren't biting.

 

[Chris1964]

It's pretty clear YSO predictions are supposed to be close to the ceiling.

No, who says that. I give the upper limit of their predictions leaving out the extraordinary low and high ones. Their average is almost always closer to the real number.

These were those for Animal Crossing

390.000
435.000
458.000
470.000
487.600
500.000
500.000
500.000
500.000
520.000
522.000
540.000
550.000
550.000
550.000
570.000
590.000
590.000
620.000
630.000
635.000
668.545
760.000
780.000

Up limit is almost 650.000 but average is 540.000

 

[Mpl90]

You know what, I've wanted to say this for a long time.
3DS basically massacres any 3rd party release that isn't a core Nintendo franchise or some mass appeal game(Monster Hunter, Youkai Watch). It's honestly getting painful to watch devs keep trying at it. So why do they? It's obvious the fish aren't biting.

Wait what?

 

[leroidys]

The fact that Nintendo has a bonafide system seller on it's hands means this is the perfect time to drop the Wii U's price, IMO.

 

[Socordia]

The fact that Nintendo has a bonafide system seller on it's hands means this is the perfect time to drop the Wii U's price, IMO.

The only good reason for a price drop is to sell leftover stock and nothing else.

 

[Jpop]

You know what, I've wanted to say this for a long time.
3DS basically massacres any 3rd party release that isn't a core Nintendo franchise or some mass appeal game(Monster Hunter, Youkai Watch). It's honestly getting painful to watch devs keep trying at it. So why do they? It's obvious the fish aren't biting.

Okay.