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man, playing Wind Waker HD is making me miss Nintendo's experimental Gamecube era

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
I finally finished Majora's Mask 3D and am starting up Wind Waker HD (having finished the original version on Gamecube years ago) and my goodness this game is stunning looking. It's amazing how well the art style holds up two gens later with just a bit of polish and the controls are still spot on. I got up to Forsaken Fortress... my least favorite part of the game ngl so I took a break.

The hour and a half I've played has reminded me of what I feel is Nintendo's most experimental time with it's main IPs. Namely what they did with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Star Fox and Metroid during the Gamecube days.

Mario Sunshine gets a lot of flack but I always like it better than Mario 64. It controls as well, but the FLUDD mechanics were unique and fun. I love how they took one theme, a tropical island, and made it the theme for the whole game. Instead of the typical grass world, ice world etc. everything was tied around that theme: haunted hotel at the beach, boss battle on a roller coaster etc. The entire game was so chill, including the final boss being
giant Bowser in a hot tub
lol plus it introduced us to the lovable Bowser Jr. who has become a series staple.

Metroid going first person was a move many were dismissive about (I remember reactions to early previews) but my goodness it resulted in one of the best first person experiences I've ever played in Metroid Prime and it's sequel. Metroid Prime was the height of the series imo and the fact it played so radically different but felt so similar to what Metroid should be was an amazing achievement.

Wind Waker of course was met with a lot of derision as well at first, wtih people hating the "baby" art style. I thought it looked adorable, but of course when it came out the game became an instant classic and the graphics were beyond charming. Sailing the seas was a lot of fun which also made the world feel huge, like you could go anywhere at any time. WW also remains the most unique game visually in the series.

Kirby's Air Ride and Star Fox Adventures were also radical departures from the series' norms. Star Fox became a traditional Zelda clone for the most part, and it's personally the only Star Fox game I've really enjoyed (not a popular opinion I know). Kirby's Air Ride was a bit simplistic but it was a charming racer. Speaking of racers, that reminds me that Double Dash is still the boldest change in the Mario Kart series, with the double racer feature that hasn't returned in future installments.

I'd love for Nintendo to take it's series in bold new directions again, I feel they were at their most experimental peak during the Gamecube era. I've loved their first party offerings on the Wii U, but I'd love for their "big names" to take some risks again, even if it's just a new visual aesthetic for the next game in whatever series (Mario, Donkey Kong, etc.). Splatoon felt like a Gamecube era game to me for example so I know they def still have it in them.

What are your thoughts?
 

KHlover

Banned
This era is far more experimental. Nintendo home console without an exclusive Zelda game, they never tried THAT one before ;)
 
GameCube was experimental, but it was also my least favorite Nintendo console that I owned.
But it has TTYD, so I can't stay too mad at it
Edit: oh, and DK Jungle Beat is best DK game
 

Piers

Member
Wind Waker and Sunshine had their share of problems from being rushed (seemingly). Not particularly a fan of either games, in their respective series at least.

Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion tho
 
Wasn't Wii pretty experimental? Probably more so than Game Cube?

I mean, when you're releasing whole Zelda games that people say they simply can't play because they don't know how/can't move their arms the way the game wants them to, that's getting into really esoteric territory.

Plus balance board as a method of control, spinoffs like Link's Crossbow Training, new IPs that just fell flat like Flingsmash...
 
The first 2D sidescrolling DK game since the SNES was also controlled via a gimmicky bongo controller, but managed to be a great game, despite how wrong it could have went.

Although, the best selling game on the GCN was a "safe" sequel to Smash 64, with Melee. Melee was basically Smash 64, part 2, just an expanded sequel, rather than any radical departure.
 

Balb

Member
Wind Waker and Sunshine had their share of problems from being rushed (seemingly). Not particularly a fan of either games, in their respective series at least.

Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion tho

Yep. Did a 120 shine run very recently and while the game has a kernel of greatness, it has quite a bit of problems that probably stem from it being rushed back in the day. A really fine tuned remake could make it great.

Wind Waker was much closer to being great but also felt a little rushed like you mentioned. WWHD fixed that for the most part, though it could have still used an extra dungeon or two.
 

jacobeid

Banned
Reminds me......I bought my Wii U as the Wind Waker bundle so I could finally play Wind Waker.

Two years later....still need to play Wind Waker. Might be a good January game for me after I'm done with Fallout and before Deus Ex/Mirror's Edge release.
 

Arttemis

Member
I bumped a late to the party thread for WWHD a few days ago because it was so good. This was my first time playing the game, and I was really impressed.
 

Peltz

Member
I don't see how you can call Wii's software "not experimental". I feel like Nintendo has always been pushing things into unpredictable territories.

Same goes for Wii U. Just look at Splatoon, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Super Mario Maker this year alone. Next year, we get Pokken, a huge-scale Zelda, and the FE x Shin Megami Tensai crossover game.

They've never really lost their unique flair. Wii and Wii U feel every bit as unique as Gamecube in their own ways respectively.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion tho

A MESS that I could forget to mention these two in the opening post!

Yes, Pikmin was a unique new series and Luigi's Mansion was a fun departure from anything else Mario had done. Dark Moon was cute, but the original LM was really a lot of fun, an underrated game.

Yep. Did a 120 shine run very recently and while the game has a kernel of greatness, it has quite a bit of problems that probably stem from it being rushed back in the day. A really fine tuned remake could make it great.

If I could wish and have one remaster come true, it would be for Nintendo to give Mario Sunshine the Wind Waker HD treatment. I feel a lot of people would finally give the game the love it deserves.
 
I don't see how you can call Wii's software "not experimental". I feel like Nintendo has always been pushing things into unpredictable territories.

Same goes for Wii U. Just look at Splatoon, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Super Mario Maker this year alone.

They even took big chances with Wonderful 101 and Devil's Third. Nintendo has and always will be experimental
 

Pila

Member
Wii was the best N console, from this point of view.

On the WU we got stuff like Splatoon, Mario 3DW, TW101, NintendoLand... they play it safe sometimes but it's not all they do.
 
I don't see how you can call Wii's software "not experimental". I feel like Nintendo has always been pushing things into unpredictable territories.

Same goes for Wii U. Just look at Splatoon, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Super Mario Maker this year alone.

What makes X experimental? From any other company, X would just be seen as a standard JRPG.

But anyway, this gen had a multiplayer 3D platformer that actually worked right without camera issues, Super Mario 3D World. Coming from someone who grew up on 64 platformers and witnessed how bad the camera can get in single player, having four people on the screen at all times with a functioning camera is kind of a miracle.

I'd consider that to be extremely experimental, since it was a big gamble if it would even work.
 
The era was definitely a good one. The lacking Wii era really showed its age now.
Took fan demand to get Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandora's Tower, and such.
 

Balb

Member
If I could wish and have one remaster come true, it would be for Nintendo to give Mario Sunshine the Wind Waker HD treatment. I feel a lot of people would finally give the game the love it deserves.

Yep, I was thinking about it while I was playing the GameCube version and it'd be a GREAT NX launch game.
 
Looking back I find it odd that they departed so radically with their main IP's seeing as how they had only done them in 3D once. But it was as if the mentality was that they have already been there and done that, and needed to do something really different to be relevant.

I must confess, Sunshine is my favorite Mario, based purely on aesthetic, Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda, based purely on aesthetic. The same aesthetic connection was present in Metroid Prime for me but there's no contest there really.

Game control mechanics were much more experimental in the Wii era, but the setting and aesthetics of the GCN were the most refreshing and different compared to the rest of the titles. My favorite Nintendo era.

panic mode nintendo is best nintendo

Yeah, they showed the same dominance when the 3DS was seemingly doomed, releasing some of the greatest titles ever made in the Zelda, Luigi's Mansion, Fire Emblem and oher franchises. Even 3D land knocked it out of the park, and set the stage for 3D world. After playing 3D world with my son for countless hours, it's safe to say it's the most intelligent of the Marios, in pretty much every category. It is as refined as Mario currently gets. But 3D land set the stage. They realize they don't need a spectacular setting for it to be relevant, which is what it seems like they thought in the Gamecube days
 

kewlbot

Member
I feel like that whole game generation had so many cool and experimental games
shame we'll probably never see a time like that in gaming ever again
 
What makes X experimental? From any other company, X would just be seen as a standard JRPG.

It's pretty far outside of Nintendo's comfort zone on software they get involved with. They don't do many RPGs, so any RPG is experimental for Nintendo.

Like saying Splatoon is "just a standard team based shooter on any other console."

Plus I think Xenoblade is anything but standard. You can't really classify it as just being the norm or whatever, it's uniquely a great game. "Normal" doesn't stand out from the crowd as an instant classic.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
Wii, DS, 3DS and Wii U are all more experimental platforms than the GameCube was.

Wind Waker is great but it didn't stray that far away from the Zelda formula. Twilight Princess went back to the conventional formula. Skyward Sword, ALBW were the ones that strayed away more from typical Zelda and added more unique elements.

Wind Waker is my favourite Zelda game -- but I'm not going to pretend that Nintendo was more experimental with the GameCube than they were with the platforms afterwards.
 
TWW was good and looked good but my main concern with the game is the lack of actual content. Also travel times were too long back then, still are a bit
5 dungeons is really low for a zelda game imo, and the triforce quest was 100% BS

Agree with you on sunshine and prime, great games
 

spliced

Member
Unfortunately I feel Wind Waker was an experiment of style over substance that marked a downturn in the quality of the series. To ad insult to injury I think the style is ugly.

I'd say the Wii era was more experimental with all the motion control stuff.
 
Both were. A shame Nintendo is playing it too safe with the Wii U...

How so? Moving Zelda to a massive open world, non-standard progression? Splatoon as a game type they've never done before? All the new ideas in Nintendo Land? The controller that's a big experiment of its own that turned off a lot of people? Breaking into social networking with Miiverse?
 
Nintendo reigns the charts => Safe and boring Nintendo
Nintendo games/hardware bombs => bolder, more interesting Nintendo

Splatoon is a great example, so is Wind Waker.
 

nubbe

Member
Trying to use a Gamecube controller with anything but GC games is a really bad
experience

y9XRT7V.jpg


My second favorite platform after SNES
But I can't say it was experimental, beyond that it allowed new visual experiences and phystics

Wii was truly experimental
 
Nintendo reigns the charts => Safe and boring Nintendo

Again, Wii was safe and boring? They released a mainline Zelda game that seemingly alienated half the audience due to MotionPlus. You have to be bold to release a product that you know some people will never be able to play, and many will choose not to play.
 
TWW was good and looked good but my main concern with the game is the lack of actual content. Also travel times were too long back then, still are a bit
5 dungeons is really low for a zelda game imo, and the triforce quest was 100% BS

Agree with you on sunshine and prime, great games

The HD remake fixes a lot of that. It makes sailing much faster, cuts down the triforce quest a lot, and makes the photograph side quest not as painful.

It doesn't fix the lower dungeon count, but with the game not feeling as drawn out and without as much filler, it ends up being a much better Zelda.

And it was already my favorite Zelda before the HD remake fixed a lot of the issues.
 
The HD remake fixes a lot of that. It makes sailing much faster, cuts down the triforce quest a lot, and makes the photograph side quest not as painful.

It doesn't fix the lower dungeon count, but with the game not feeling as drawn out and without as much filler, it ends up being a much better Zelda.

And it was already my favorite Zelda before the HD remake fixed a lot of the issues.
I know, I did the HD remix too. Photograph side quest was always BS to me, never bothered with it lol, too much of a hassle, sailing upgrade and new triforce is much better

What I like the most about zelda games is dungeons so WW is still pretty low in my list
 
Unfortunately I feel Wind Waker was an experiment of style over substance that marked a downturn in the quality of the series. To ad insult to injury I think the style is ugly.

I'd say the Wii era was more experimental with all the motion control stuff.

Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, and ALBW all share the similarity of being a traditional zelda overworlds. Wind Waker was quite different with the sea and boat and islands.
 

dralla

Member
The HD remake fixes a lot of that. It makes sailing much faster, cuts down the triforce quest a lot, and makes the photograph side quest not as painful.

It doesn't fix the lower dungeon count, but with the game not feeling as drawn out and without as much filler, it ends up being a much better Zelda.

And it was already my favorite Zelda before the HD remake fixed a lot of the issues.

You can't fix the mediocre dungeons and boring items, unfortunately.
 

Griss

Member
Gamecube 1st party games - Brilliantly inventive, often quite flawed. Mario Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion and Wind Waker fall into that category. Amazing games, but whether they were rushed or it was something else there's definitely some extra polish that could have been used there.

Metroid Prime and Pikmin were utterly innovative masterpieces, though. I feel like those two hold up better than Sunshine or WW.

Sadly, even amazing games like Wave Race: Blue Storm or F-Zero GX seem like risky, out-there moves these days (even though making that kind of game wasn't uncommon back in the day).

Gamecube era was amazing. It and the PS2 were the most magically complementary consoles ever.
 
Again, Wii was safe and boring? They released a mainline Zelda game that seemingly alienated half the audience due to MotionPlus. You have to be bold to release a product that you know some people will never be able to play, and many will choose not to play.

MotionPlus gameplay was the only 'bold' move they made. The overall gameplay was pretty default for a Zelda adventure.
 
I've grown to truly love the Gamecube during the past few years. I think a lot of it has to do with how disappointed I've been in Wii U (despite some incredible games).

No Metroid, Zelda, Wave Race, Paper Mario or F-Zero. As a longtime Nintendo fan, this generation has been rough for me, outside of a handful of games, like Pikmin 3, Bayo 2, Tropical Freeze, and Splatoon.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Edit: oh, and DK Jungle Beat is best DK game
thumbsup.gif

Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion tho
were both masterpieces

I miss the ps2's experimental mid tier era
the entire industry misses that era :(

Adding Eternal Darkness to the list, perhaps the only mature Nintendo codeveloped game.
belongs on the list for sure.

As does Odama, even if most people hated it!
There were also lesser known titles such as Doshin the Giant, Cubivore, Giftpia, and probably others I'm forgetting.
 
MotionPlus gameplay was the only 'bold' move they made. The overall gameplay was pretty default for a Zelda adventure.

The only bold move they made for the whole generation?

Are you seriously trying to argue that the Wii generation was playing it safe overall?
 
Nintendo reigns the charts => Safe and boring Nintendo
Nintendo games/hardware bombs => bolder, more interesting Nintendo

Splatoon is a great example, so is Wind Waker.

But this isn't true. There was nothing safe about the Wii at all.

And yet the GBA didn't do that great and had a standard Zelda, a standard Metroid, a standard Mario Kart, a standard Pokemon, no 2D Mario at all that wasn't a remake. Not to say those GBA games weren't good, because they were very good, but they were far more safe than anything Nintendo put out on the Wii.

The DS crushed the GBA in sales, but had far more experimental games. Even online play on a handheld was a brave new world for Nintendo, and even, at the time, for the industry itself.

The 3DS has less sales than the DS by far, and yet its games are all fairly standard and safe.

And the stuff on the N64 was experimental, but not because the N64 was doing poorly, as most of it was planned well before the N64 launched.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Also, Zelda Four Swords and FF: Crystal Chronicles should both count as experimental!


edit: and Pacman VS



edit2: Never played it but I heard Geist was quite innovative


edit3: also we got Mario Strikers and Battalion Wars first entries on GC
 

tbd

Member
Isn't the GC like one of the safest Nintendo consoles ever? Compared with the Wii and Wii U. DS is also post GC.
 
Isn't the GC like one of the safest Nintendo consoles ever? Compared with the Wii and Wii U.

The hardware itself? Definitely.

In terms of software, I'd say Wii U is the safest.

Wii is by far my favorite Nintendo era, in terms of first party. So many awesome games. Wii U is easily my least favorite, despite some great games.
 
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