Prototype Viktor
Member
Digital Games I like and will rarely play again are like the statues of games/media that are on my wall. I don't actually play with them but they remind me of the thing
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Your digital garbage collection: Maybe MS's original XBO plans weren't all bad
- Thread starter family_guy
- Start date
The thing is this was never detailed. Their plan was some time after launch they were going to have it where you could trade your games with authorised resellers so we never got any details to the limitations around that.
Also have to remember with their plan physical licenses wouldn't exist and if you wanted to do things like borrowing you couldn't and the only way that could happen was if they were on your friend list for at least 30 days then you can gift it to them. Given limitation that above I thought their plan would be as easy as you think it would be.
Nonsense.
The execs themselves were contradicting a lot of the information given out. Those ridiculous infographics were vague at best, contradictory at worst. No one ignored what they said -- they just had a minimum of critical thinking and realized that as a package, not much made sense, and a whole lot was contradictory.
Here's a question: Why aren't we allowed to resell a digital game right now, limited to doing it once to someone on your friends list?
I went all digital with my Vita as a test run. I only bought 4-5 games since the rest was free thanks to PS+. I enjoy having everything on my console but I can't share digital games with my girlfriend. Luckily she only has a 3DS so that isn't a problem with my Vita.
At the end of the day though, I cannot see me ever going all digital on my home consoles.
At the end of the day though, I cannot see me ever going all digital on my home consoles.
Pretty sure MS have said they're looking at gifting games to people. May of been a fly by comment by MN on reddit.
Mihos
Gold Member
Of course, and it wasn't bought as an investment. (the 12k is market price right now, not new... I shudder to think what that is). But depreciating from $60 to $5 over the course of 5 - 10 years isn't bad compared to depreciating from $60 to $0 the second I download it.
I am not strictly opposed to digital, I have a some on all devices. I am opposed to it as the only option on a device. I never would have bought an Xbox one if it was digital only, even though they are pretty much accomplishing the same thing they set out to with how DLC and online servers and check-ins are handled. Even some disks from last gen are worthless now because they dropped the infrastructure. Allot of this of course comes from my age. 10 years is a long time when your young. And I play games now that I bought 30 years ago. I only hope this digital only generation gets to say the same thing 30 years from now when your talking about Xbox Live they way my friends talk about the Sega channel
SwiftDeath
Member
Sorry to hear your gaming PC stopped working
It is a real and ever present conversation worth having though. Xbox 360 for instance had something of an amazing digital-only marketplace [yes, there was absolutely a lot of crap but there were also so many gems] so the idea of allowing those who own digital licenses of smaller games like that on 360 to play them on XB1 [and future Xbox systems] would be amazing and one would hope is only a licensing issue at worst so hopefully MS makes a good offering in 360 games you can play on XB1.
It'll certainly be interesting going forward to the next PS and Xbox console with similar architecture between gens and digital from day one and what not. Hopefully BC is built-in with at least a software solution. I guess as always licensing will be one of the biggest hurdles.
Gifting is a completely different feature than reselling digital licenses.
DarthWalden
Banned
Lol there is zero evidence they would increase in price. But retailers would still be competing for your business in the same way they do now and they would still have to compete with the price in competing systems.
Why would competition soften?
I can't understand your logic.
What you've also got to keep in mind, but no one ever does, is that these plans got leaked before they were ever prepared to talk about them. They were working on them themselves and weren't prepared to give specifics because they wouldn't of been finalised.
It would of gone way smoother if it didn't get leaked and they weren't really pressured into the subject. Although, you could think otherwise since Don Mattrick seemed like a tool.
Love how the thought of 'Maybe games should be more than 1 time throw away worthless shit' Was never even a factor or thought.
Congratulations AAAAAAAA publishers, your 'hurry the fuck up and forget about this useless peice of shit that was only designed to be engaging for a couple days and then become monotonous, so you can hurry the fuck up and pay us 60 bucks for the next thing we tell you you are super hyped about' marketing model is horrifyingly effective.
This shit would have never worked on my generation.
Congratulations AAAAAAAA publishers, your 'hurry the fuck up and forget about this useless peice of shit that was only designed to be engaging for a couple days and then become monotonous, so you can hurry the fuck up and pay us 60 bucks for the next thing we tell you you are super hyped about' marketing model is horrifyingly effective.
This shit would have never worked on my generation.
This thread makes me wonder are most people who are into the all digital thing generally younger people?
I rent multiple properties to college kids so I actually come into contact with quite a few younger people and it does seem like they all shun the idea of having personal physical belongings. Almost every group of students has at least one console and many of them just have digital games. They don't have physical movie collections, many don't own a vehicle (and don't intend to), and many see no problem with renting in the future even when they are established as well. They look at me in amazement most of the time when I tell them I have a collection of about 1,000 games dating back to NES.
Is this just kind of the philosophy of young people these days? I'm from the age where we were always taught it's better to own everything.
I rent multiple properties to college kids so I actually come into contact with quite a few younger people and it does seem like they all shun the idea of having personal physical belongings. Almost every group of students has at least one console and many of them just have digital games. They don't have physical movie collections, many don't own a vehicle (and don't intend to), and many see no problem with renting in the future even when they are established as well. They look at me in amazement most of the time when I tell them I have a collection of about 1,000 games dating back to NES.
Is this just kind of the philosophy of young people these days? I'm from the age where we were always taught it's better to own everything.
MikeHaggar
Member
i don't know... maybe it's just me, but... the idea of being able to trade-in or resell a digital license just makes no sense. there's no scarcity involved. where is the profit motive for the platform holder to actually buy back your license? it's strange to me that people expect this to happen. i believe steam does (or was doing) this? i'd love to actually find out the business specifics of how this works and why they decided to do it.
The burden of proof is on the other side: All else constant, basic economics says that when competition with used products is softened, prices are higher relative to the alternative.
That retailers would compete amongst themselves doesn't preclude the fact that they would nevertheless be competing with a significantly softer used market due to the restrictions placed on it.
To my knowledge you can't hide stuff in your library when you own the disc either. Selling/Getting rid of the disc just prevents you from being able to play the game.
Darryl M R
Member
My digital collection:
I expect to still play all of those games within the next year--and for any game I no longer want to play the value of it would be so small that the earlier convenience of being digital is worth more.
The games I bought physically are:
I'm glad I got Dragon Age physically because I sold that game back within a week. I beat Bloodborne in a week and sold it back for my full money as well--I see the new DLC is about to come out but it looks like there is a DLC-bundle with the original game.
I am enjoying my decision--but I need more space for my PS4 soon--and a better controller.
- Destiny
- GTA 5/Online
- MGS 5/Online
- Driveclub
- inFamous DLC
- Rocket League
- Witcher 3
I expect to still play all of those games within the next year--and for any game I no longer want to play the value of it would be so small that the earlier convenience of being digital is worth more.
The games I bought physically are:
- Annual Call of Duty
- Annual Sport Games
- Annual Assassin Creed
- Dragon Age
- Bloodorne
I'm glad I got Dragon Age physically because I sold that game back within a week. I beat Bloodborne in a week and sold it back for my full money as well--I see the new DLC is about to come out but it looks like there is a DLC-bundle with the original game.
I am enjoying my decision--but I need more space for my PS4 soon--and a better controller.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Yeah.. was never going to happen.
They would of gone with the "it's in thw publishers hands" too make them look the good guys.
They would of gone with the "it's in thw publishers hands" too make them look the good guys.
Dreamgazer
Member
For the N-th F-ing time.
Microsoft's original plan was to make PHYSICAL DISCS into digital game containers. Each PHYSICAL DISC can only be used once to install the game/active the license, and then the PHYSICAL DISC will lose all functions and use as a traditional physical media (resell, lend, trade with anyone on your own terms, without worrying about license checks with servers) + you get a 24 hour check.
Then, if you want to sell/trade-in the PHYSICAL DISC, you'll have to go to a Microsoft Authorized Reseller and take whatever value they're willing to give you and deactivate the license on your system. It was essentially a way for them to control the 2nd hand market, without annoying their retail partners like Walmart or Gamestop.
Microsoft also never promised that you can gift digital games to friends:
It was freaking DISC-BASED games of which publishers had to allow it in the first place.
---------------------------
The whole "digital game" can be traded thing was never a thing till August of 2013, where CBOAT started the rumor on GAF, which led to other medias such as IGN reporting on it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663273
This was way after MS backtracked on their original policy on June 19 2013.
If you actually read that thread, most Gaffers were okay with it.
MS can implement "resell of digital games" at anytime.
They're the only one stopping themselves.
Freaking revisionist history.
Microsoft's original plan was to make PHYSICAL DISCS into digital game containers. Each PHYSICAL DISC can only be used once to install the game/active the license, and then the PHYSICAL DISC will lose all functions and use as a traditional physical media (resell, lend, trade with anyone on your own terms, without worrying about license checks with servers) + you get a 24 hour check.
Then, if you want to sell/trade-in the PHYSICAL DISC, you'll have to go to a Microsoft Authorized Reseller and take whatever value they're willing to give you and deactivate the license on your system. It was essentially a way for them to control the 2nd hand market, without annoying their retail partners like Walmart or Gamestop.
Microsoft also never promised that you can gift digital games to friends:
It was freaking DISC-BASED games of which publishers had to allow it in the first place.
---------------------------
The whole "digital game" can be traded thing was never a thing till August of 2013, where CBOAT started the rumor on GAF, which led to other medias such as IGN reporting on it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=663273
This was way after MS backtracked on their original policy on June 19 2013.
If you actually read that thread, most Gaffers were okay with it.
MS can implement "resell of digital games" at anytime.
They're the only one stopping themselves.
Freaking revisionist history.
vasametropolis
Member
This might work if they allowed one-time gifting from the original purchaser. So if you are the original buyer, you can gift the license, but never receive the same license back. You can set up a private sale this way. But this prevents the potential issue of having the same game license circulate forever.
I can't imagine it being allowed more than once.
I can't imagine it being allowed more than once.
PetriP-TNT
Member
> suggesting that "1 time throw away worthless shit" wasn't a thing since always
Sometimes there just was no other choice
Krappadizzle
Member
I think if there were reasonable rental prices a lot of people would do it. I would. But right now, PSNow is about the only digital rental service around and they don't have new games or reasonable prices. Redbox is annoying and hit or miss. Rental market is essentially dead to you if you don't want to Gamefly or search out a Redbox. I honestly can't even remember the last time I rented a game. 2009? Maybe.
I'm an old fart with limited living space (perhaps not unlike the properties you rent out?) and I really hate clutter, so for the most part I don't mind going digital & reserving my free space for the goods that must remain tangible.
The competitive pricing between PC storefronts also certainly helps me cope with the trade-off of not really "owning" my games. The decision would probably be more difficult for me on consoles.
This was very dubious as no retailer then or now has ever mentioned anything about this "Authorized Reseller" thing. I know an MS rep had mentioned this but it sounded like complete bullshit. A system like that would require an incredible amount of planning given that this system would have had to be up and running at the Xbox One's launch (which was not far from when MS first mentioned this "Authorized Reseller" system. Loads of people would have been in on this system of "digital" resell, and yet nobody has ever talked about it whatsoever outside of one MS rep, I believe. I don't buy it.
Even if we assume they were 100% truthful, can we all imagine what the prices a retail store as a "reseller" would give? The way physical resell works right now is that GS or whatever other store buys your games for a certain amount and when that used game sells, they can expect anywhere from 4x to 10x what they paid for it. There's no way MS or any other publisher would be willing to give GS that kind of return.
That definitely makes sense if space is the issue. I actually rent out single family residences that I own, so space isn't really an issue. I do notice they rarely have anything to put in any of the rooms though, which is interesting to me. I mean some of these groups live there for 3-4 years so it's not temporary housing where you wouldn't move in your creature comforts. When I was in college, my dorm and apartment were filled to the brim with stuff that I owned that I loved to have around me. I was just thinking that maybe this is some kind of minimalist sort of living that is in these days.
Qwell
Member
Isn't that kind of a sign of how good we have it now? Because do you honestly think that your generation (not sure which one that is, but I assume an older one like mine) really had these long sprawling games that lasted months and months due to content? And not because you had limited income and options?
People put hours and hours into a game like Mike Tyson's Punch-Out because the gameplay was great, and even replaying it over and over was fun. We still have games like that, where the gameplay is just a ton of fun to utilize. What about a Castlevania game, Mega-Man, Contra, ActRaiser, Ghouls and Goblins. Yes you had the 40+ hour RPG, but even a meaty game like the Legend of Zelda or a Link to the Past wasn't some ultimate replay value game with new game+ mechanism. We just played them over and over because we enjoyed the gameplay, or because the difficulty was ramped up and we had to slam our head against the wall.
We still have 40+ hour RPG, we still have games with some fantastic gameplay. What I see is that people think you need "content" to keep you playing, you need a longer story, or even more mechanics to play with in order to get that value. Games are bigger than ever, stuffing even more mechanics then ever and have true content based replay value (well, some games at least). Not only that but when you take inflation into account we are spending far less on games than we ever had in the past. We seem to have just lost that fun of replaying a game because "playing" the game was fun. I still do that, I put a ton of hours into Destiny, Motorstorm, various Battlefield games, Far Cry games, Uncharted games. I remember playing Uncharted 2, beating it and then starting it right back up again as I sat on the couch. I just enjoyed playing that game, same thing with inFamous, heck I have GTAV on the PS3 and PS4, beat it on both because I enjoyed playing, and I'll pick it up for the PC as well.
I remember having to spend $80+ on Final Fantasy III, or N64 games that were $70-$80. These games were packed with content and replay, we played them longer because its all we had. Our options are so much greater now, and frankly I love it. I'm playing games way more now than I ever had when I was younger, probably too much honestly.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Last time I rented a video game was in 94ish. It wasn't really a thing in Finland after the SNES generation (or during it, after the fall of non-chain video rental places I guess). There was a brief period where you could rent games from R-Kioski kiosk chain around 2000's IIRC.
I already listed many advantages other than not having to stand up in this very topic. It's a service problem, not a problem of the format itself. Microsoft was gimped before they could even try it (but still require money for their service). Sony didn't even bother (unless you count PS Now, plus there are tons of extra fees too). Nintendo didn't even get internet to their HQ until 2015 I guess. Digital thrives on PC though, even on mobile. Mobile has it's own set of problems though.
Yea, that reason would be that they sign license agreements with all of their third-party providers, and they can't just decide to let everything sell their shit because they feel like it.
For any game released at retail at the very least, you could simply buy the physical version, and then from that point treat it as digital. It would still have most of the benefits of a digital copy today (minus preloading and 24hr check), would have benefits over digital today (sellable, faster install, retailer exclusives, stock clearance prices etc).
It would be in the publishers hands. Just as PS4 remote play and shareplay, and X1 backwards compatability are. They can't state that it'd apply to every game, even if in reality it would apply to the vast majority. If publishers want to fuck you out of trading a game in, they already have plenty of ways to make that happen... they don't tend to implement them though as they've historically drawn very poor response (cd keys, online passes, Catwoman DLC etc). Even today with the current digital landscape, if a publisher wants you to remain online to play, you will be (Final Fight Double Impact, Sim City, Elite Dangerous etc). It's just a balancing act of how many sales they'd lose and if it's worthwhile (which it usually isn't).
One thing I learnt during the 360's life is that outside of brand new purchases, that one advantage was enough to dictate what I played. If it's not immediately accessible, then I'll likely forget it exists... so XBLA stuff was played far more and was worth more personally. This hasn't been an issue this gen where everything I own is digital (excluding my Wii U library that never really gets touched as a result).
The only plan that got leaked was the gifting part. Nothing else was leaked and they had a while to talk about it but refused to(No roundtable at E3, etc).
Also this is a much better post of what I was trying to say -
Dreamgazer
Member
I don't know what MS rep thing you're talking about. Any links?
I incorrectly used Authorized when it should have been "participating"
From the very original MS policy announcement page:
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license
flatearthpandas
Member
My digital garbage is pretty limited across all consoles. A few mid-drought full price titles but mostly free or flash sale crap. Regret very, very little and in no way believe Xbone had the right idea at reveal.
Teletraan1
Banned
My only digital garbage is NBA2K14. I barely played more than a few matches. It was a bug ridden mess.
Petrae
Member
Cutting down on required storage space for discs/carts, helping the environment, and avoiding disc rot are all reasons that I've seen cited here for going digital. There are more advantages than just enabling lazy behavior.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
A few of my digital titles are no longer available due to the publisher's license expiring. I would imagine that even if there was a way to resell, those titles would be exempt.
Ah if there was a blog post that may have been it. I might have been mixing up different oral statements made by MS reps (as MS reps were saying a lot of stuff in interviews as much as they were doing actual written statements).
But my original point still stands. I don't see how this system could actually have been in place when nothing so much as an anonymous reddit AMA has appeared from these "participating retailers" about this system. This new system of resale would have required:
-Tremendous employee training on the retailer side which takes lots of time and money
-Retailer systems would have had to be linked to XBL pretty deeply
-MS and publishers would have had some sort of link to the retailers to update pricing in real time
-etc, etc, etc.
I mean this would have been a real paradigm shift and not something that you just implement or blow up at the drop of a hat. With all the communication and contracts this would have required between MS, every game publisher, and every retailer participating, you certainly wouldn't be able to just call it all off in the matter of 13 days (blog post on 6/6/13, and then the update on 6/19/13). Like I said I don't buy it at all, that this was real at any time.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The storage space one always cracked me up. Unless you're a pack rat that never sells anything, or the person that buys everything, I don't see how those thin cases present a storage headache.
You should've seen back in my day with our big ugly cartridges, and blah blah blah
I dunno. Would a license transfer be considered the same as the creation of a new license? I don't believe it would considering it'd be the online equivalent of transferring a disc-based license, as opposed to pressing a new copy. A game's license expiring doesn't generally prevent you from redownloading the games, or recovering it to a new console for that matter... I'd imagine used copies would work in much the same way.
Of course if they handled it like PS+ (throwing the license away, and then attempting to reacquire it), then those games would have been fucked. I doubt it'd work like that though.
LukasTaves
Member
It wouldn't make a difference? If you have all those games installed already.
Hmmm consoles most of my digital stuff is multiplayer focused, the ease access is great, jump from games without much delay, so at the moment it's good for those kind of purchases
Single player stuff is hardly digital unless it's 20 or less
I just run through them once or twice and that's it, gotten in habit of waiting till black Friday for all physical purchases now
Sucks that i have to wait, but if they'd let me rent it for a month half price that be cool
Single player stuff is hardly digital unless it's 20 or less
I just run through them once or twice and that's it, gotten in habit of waiting till black Friday for all physical purchases now
Sucks that i have to wait, but if they'd let me rent it for a month half price that be cool
My digital garbage is confined to games that were bought so cheap I wouldn't sell anyway or games I would never sell if I bought full price (like Bloodborne).
Only semi regret was buying The Last of Us digitally on PS3, no way am I straight up double dipping on PS4, ironically I bought GTAV physically so I'm open to getting the PS4 via trade.
Only semi regret was buying The Last of Us digitally on PS3, no way am I straight up double dipping on PS4, ironically I bought GTAV physically so I'm open to getting the PS4 via trade.
family_guy
Member
haha they sound like a content publisher's wet dream.
Dyson Industries
Banned
*snort* Ah yes, the mythical land of rainbows and sunshine that was being peddled as a last ditch effort to salvage that train wreck of a "feature". No story from a MS exec was the same, and it was painfully clear that they had no plan at all.
It was heartwarming to see the gaming community collectively tell Microsoft to shove their digitally controlled future right up their arse.
"if we gave them the opportunity"? What are you smoking? If it's such a big deal to Microsoft, they can go implement it now.
Mihos
Gold Member
I would be willing to bet access to your digital content will be gone long before the effects of any disk rot take place. Closest thing I have had to any kind of rot is having to change a battery in some older Nintendo cartridges.
Neuromancer
Member
Selling digital games back to the storefront you bought them, or to other players with the storefront/publisher/developer getting a cut, is a great idea. I don't see any reason that MS/Sony/Nintendo etc couldn't do it without all of the other horrendous shit that made the Xbox One vision such a disaster, if they wanted to. That's the crux of the issue, I don't think they do want to. They probably think it wouldn't end up making them more money although I think you could argue it would, similar to how most Gamestop trade-ins go towards buying new games.
family_guy
Member
Your console will rot/die long before any disc will.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'll never let go on this.
Microsofts original plan allowed you to buy physical and have the price you pay for physical but all the convenience of digital. Once you're done with the game, delete it and then trade in the disc. I know they said select retailers at first for trade ins but I'm sure that would have expanded over time.
Microsofts original plan allowed you to buy physical and have the price you pay for physical but all the convenience of digital. Once you're done with the game, delete it and then trade in the disc. I know they said select retailers at first for trade ins but I'm sure that would have expanded over time.
Petrae
Member
I don't agree with the reasoning-- I'm #TeamPhysical myself-- but am citing what I've seen here on GAF.
My own collection of disc-based games dates back to SEGA CD, and I'm still all systems go after more than 20 years.
No... no they can't... it doesn't work like that. The games are now licensed differently. It's not too dissimilar to why they can't just throw any BC game out. The original plans would have been run by every major publisher and retailer who would have agreed to it, seeing benefits on their end as well. Those benefits are now gone and so their response would be a very simple "fuck no" to any digital only application of resales.
I can't believe people keep saying this shit without giving it even a little bit of thought.