Why would you need to play games from that angle?
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Normal New 3DS coming to the US with Happy Home designer bundle
- Thread starter James Scott
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Why would you need to play games from that angle?
Someone said there may have been reports of smaller units with IPS screens, but I've seen no evidence to support it. If there are non-XLs out there with IPS it's extraordinarily rare.
Toadthemushroom
Member
In this case the colours start shifting as soon as you move the N3DS in any direction, which doesn't help with super stable 3D. I chose the most extreme angle to show how bad the colour shift gets, but it's there when you tilt from around 20 degrees in any direction.
I didn't mind on the original 3DS as I always positioned it in the middle, but now I'm more lax with now I use the 3DS with the 3D on, and I was disappointed with the lack of a stable, non-changing image when tilting the N3DS and seeing the colours shift.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Ah, that's a shame. I don't think TN was a good choice for the smaller 3DS, even if it's more of a personal device that people don't watch you play over your shoulder.
The super stable 3D effect needs good viewing angles to work really well, which isn't what my system offers -- they shift far too easily and from all four directions.
You would not move 20 degrees while playing. The system will be straight, with maybe 5 degrees of tilt while you press buttons or use gyro. I am very sensitive to this and it was a problem on the XL (both old and new). On the XL, simply pressing the buttons caused "flickering". I didn't even remotely have this problem on the OG (which had far worse contrast and viewing angles) and only see it on the new at unpractical angles or distances.
I just did it two nights ago. Sonuva...
On a side note, what's it gonna take for store.nintendo.com to sell true white plates? Literally all I want at this point.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Yeah, I think 5 degrees is right, not 20, based on how I've used the system this evening, and also whenever I play on my New 3DS XL on a moving vehicle, where the 3D image will stay completely solid and unchanging.
That's the thing, I'm not talking about the flickering, I'm talking about the colour shift of the screen and how it changes with small tilts.
On the New 3DS it's pretty bad, just tilting the system a tiny amount causes the colours to change. If you combine this with a super stable 3D effect that works well up to around 40 degrees of tilt either way, it's not good.
I don't want to tilt my 3DS, retain the 3D effect and see the colours change. That's not acceptable in my eyes, and I know how I use my 3DS. I've held this New 3DS and seen the colours shift. I don't have this problem on my XL, which I do occasionally not use head-on.
Not sure why anyone would defend the poor viewing angles of the upper screen when they are clearly worse than the last four-five Nintendo handhelds: Even DSi had better viewing angles with a near flawless horizontal viewing angle. DSi XL had twin IPS displays with flawless viewing angles from any angle, 3DS has slightly better viewing angles than New 3DS, 3DS XL had decent quality TN panels with good viewing angles up to around 60 degrees of tilt, New 3DS XL has either that or an IPS panel with flawless viewing angles. Good viewing angles are an asset, users aren't always looking at the screen head-on, and it's nice to have a picture that doesn't shift colours drastically when it's seen from any angle, because it just looks *right* that way.
I like the New 3DS, it's a much better and more comfortable size than the XL, but I don't like the idea of the screen being an obvious downgrade. Every time I see the colours shift even slightly it makes my eye twitch, and reminds me of the DSi days when I would have to take a lot of care to hold the system properly so the colours don't change slightly. The colours don't shift in every scenario but I don't think it's crazy to expect better at all.
I think the huge thread fussing over the viewing angles of the TN panel New 3DS XLs, which have better viewing angles than the regular New 3DS, validates my concern.
Then I consider myself fortunate for either having a higher quality screen than you, or just not seeing it. My colours don't shift unless I angle the screen farther than I ever would during game play. Your post had me curious, so I checked all three systems I have and all seem normal.
I did have a loud click or grinding sound in my circle pad when rotating. I wouldn't usually care, but it would loud enough to hear over the game sound when playing quietly at night. I opened a second new system and transferred over today. No flaws in this one. Returning the first one to the store.
I did have a loud click or grinding sound in my circle pad when rotating. I wouldn't usually care, but it would loud enough to hear over the game sound when playing quietly at night. I opened a second new system and transferred over today. No flaws in this one. Returning the first one to the store.
Wowfunhappy
Member
All day every day. That's why I didn't want to get an XL. Haven't had issues with pocket lint, although I also use screen protectors.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Thanks for checking. That's why I asked in the first place really -- I'm pretty certain that Nintendo sources panels from different suppliers with this model as well, and I've just been unlucky.
Another friend of mine said his N3DS viewing angles are like mine, someone else checked and said they weren't. It's annoying as I would keep this bundle otherwise.
Still thinking it over though, I really like the smaller screens and size of the system, and I got it for a really good price.
The only alternative is the NXL, which I found personally to be too large and bulky to be a daily driver. It fit in my pocket, but was obnoxious as all hell, and glossy to boot, so I never used it. I actually started a pretty decent JP eshop library until they announced this NA unit, and transferred my NewXL asap
Ugh, the flickering for the "super stable" 3d is so annoying.
Majora's Mask plates look gorgeous.
Majora's Mask plates look gorgeous.
FUCK
It really is. I had to turn it off. I still play games at max 3D though.
shinshoryuken
Member
I got my hands on the new 3ds and compared it to an ips new 3ds xl.......ips screen is superior. Returned the new 3ds immediately.
Booker.DeWitt
Member
I got the new 3ds.I already have a new 3ds XL with IPS screen. Although the image looks sharper on the new 3ds , I could not get used again with the TN screen. the IPS is much more vivid. I ended up returning my new 3ds and staying just with the new XL
It depends on what you value. If you enjoy the vivid handling of colours and blacks, trading accuracy for "pop", I can see why you would prefer IPS. See the endless debate regarding the Xbox One (which treats image quality this way). There is also evidence of dithering on the IPS, but I haven't looked into it personally.
If you enjoy accuracy, shadows detail, and non-crushed blacks, then TN is preferred. I imagine most modern gamers are attuned to the former after years of using LCD monitors and the Xbox.
I suggest that if the panel type is enough reason to return this new system, you weren't that interested in the first place. No harm in that. I have also looked for reasons to save money in this fashion.
If you enjoy accuracy, shadows detail, and non-crushed blacks, then TN is preferred. I imagine most modern gamers are attuned to the former after years of using LCD monitors and the Xbox.
I suggest that if the panel type is enough reason to return this new system, you weren't that interested in the first place. No harm in that. I have also looked for reasons to save money in this fashion.
Jo Shishido's Cheeks
Member
It's crap, had it turned off since the first week (...of the EU launch)
I'm at a loss when people constantly state how much better it is.
Granted I've never had a problem with the 'normal' 3D anyway.
Colour balance is superior on the smaller unit to my eye, colours are over saturated and blacks are crushed on the IPS screen, resulting in a loss of fine detail.
Agent Unknown
Member
Has there been reports from any regions on the Normal having the issue where playing long sessions of Smash eventually causes the analog nub cover to fall off?
chrominance
Member
Wait, what? Maybe this applies to the 3DS, but this seems to fly in the face of conventional wisdom about LCD panel types, unless I'm missing something very crucial here. TN doesn't even have consistent colour accuracy across a wide spread of viewing angles, I can't possibly see how TN panels would offer better accuracy if calibrated the same way as an IPS panel. Maybe the New 3DS XL's IPS panels are poorly calibrated?
DanteRavenkin
Member
I ordered a licensed Hori zero air protector from Japan via Rakuten Global for $5.61 Canadian and it's on it's way to me right now. Shipping can be more or less depending on how fast you want it or if you're picking up plates as well.
This isn't a big screen TV, nor a device for multiple viewers. It is a single user device used at a very specific distance. No one is viewing the screen at an angle which should cause any issue.
The IPS panels have black crush and inaccurate colour at all angles.
Agent Unknown
Member
I'm surprised so many XL fans are trying to convince folks the Normal either has a bad screen or is somehow seriously lacking. I've spent a lot of time trying out my friends' XL units and I've always found the screen to be a washed out, pixely eyesore. Aside from form factor, XL screen = the whole reason I had no problem holding out for the Normal. Maybe it has an IPS screen and maybe it can hold its color/clarity when viewed from the side but I still think the XL is ugly as sin and both the OG and Normal's screens look so much cleaner and crisp. Better PPI should almost immediately trump whatever screen type is in the XL.
I haven't heard much on the issue since the Smash demo/Smash launch. The rubber came off my analog on my OG while playing Smash and because of that I've adapted to using the C-stick for Smashes in fear of breaking my new models.
Agent Unknown
Member
Yeah, I'd like to know if the nub is better manufactured/fastened on better than the OG, I was playing Smash last night online and decided to go easy on it because of that. Seems like quality control at Nintendo began to gradually slide after Yamauchi left.
I've had it happen to my circle pad on my old system but what is there to fall off on the nub?
The circle pad should be your bigger worry IMO.
Agent Unknown
Member
Sorry, that's what I meant by "analog nub," the circle pad, not the C-stick.
AgentOtaku
Member
My stupid new 3DS already has the bottom touchscreen bezel causing scratches on the right side of the top screen. It took my JP model a year to develop scratches in the same place. Damn it I should have bought a screen protector
WAAAAAAT!!!!!???????
It's alright. Apparently Nintendo will repair this for free if I send it in during warranty. Still, not having the 3DS during that time will stink.
My stupid new 3DS already has the bottom touchscreen bezel causing scratches on the right side of the top screen. It took my JP model a year to develop scratches in the same place. Damn it I should have bought a screen protector
Really? I wasn't aware this was an issue. It it because of the shape of the bottom bezel or something?
Guess I'll have to look in to a screen protector now...
Worthintendo
Member
Soo happy I got mind right before I flew out to Japan, soo many faceplates ^_^ picker up the Spaltoon one, hopefully will find the glow in the dark Boo one soon
It's an issue that plagues virtually every 3DS I've ever owned. I thought it was fixed on the new ones, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Never had that on my nXL. In fact, I can see the bumper separation working perfectly on mine too.It's an issue that plagues virtually every 3DS I've ever owned. I thought it was fixed on the new ones, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
does anybody have the N3DS Hori slim hard pouch? is it any good? I remember some of their OG 3DS pouches just being rebranded DSi ones so things didn't fit snugly
which Boo one glows in the dark?Soo happy I got mind right before I flew out to Japan, soo many faceplates ^_^ picker up the Spaltoon one, hopefully will find the glow in the dark Boo one soon
Maybe it's fixed on the XL, but it on the standard
Agent Unknown
Member
My stupid new 3DS already has the bottom touchscreen bezel causing scratches on the right side of the top screen. It took my JP model a year to develop scratches in the same place. Damn it I should have bought a screen protector
Great, so Nintendo STILL hasn't fixed the grease line/scratch line problem on the N3DS? Seriously, when did quality control become a problem with Nintendo?
Edit: I looked through my N3DS with the clamshell closed and it seems like the bottom isn't touching the screen so maybe the bumpers on my unit are separating it properly. But I'll keep an eye on it.
I feel for ya!Maybe it's fixed on the XL, but it on the standard
PreyingShark
Member
What happened with my regular XL was that that gap turned into a huge problem. Dust and shit got stuck between the top screen and that bottom ridge, causing scratch marks on the top screen. Over time they accumulated and turned into thicker "marks" and it looks like shit.
Agent Unknown
Member
Catch 22? :/ I always keep my N3DS in my Club Nintendo Zelda pouch when I'm not using it or carrying it in my pocket, hopefully that will help.
Refreshment.01
Member
FACEPLATE No. 50.
There's some amazing things they do with faceplate, hopefully the concept is brought back and evolved in their next handheld. Or at least other cool new faceplates such as this one.
Sadly when I visited Japan this Cover Plate was nowhere to be seen. And on import sites it's $50.FACEPLATE No. 50.
There's some amazing things they do with faceplate, hopefully the concept is brought back and evolved in their next handheld. Or at least other cool new faceplates such as this one.
Ah I see, I bought the other Boo faceplate, the Kyary Pamyu Pamyu collab one.
probably my favorite faceplate, glad I found a restock for cheap (~$25)
Toadthemushroom
Member
(post deleted, for some reason it double posted)
Toadthemushroom
Member
Yeah, I much prefer the smaller screens, especially as a lot of games are designed around them when you consider the font sizes and the "vertical" dual screen layout. Your eyes have to move a lot to take in all the information across both screens on a N3DS XL, whereas they don't on a regular system (try reading the notebook on Majora's Mask 3D on an XL, it's hard).
Except neither panel is colour accurate. Yes, the New XL's IPS panel has been calibrated in a way that emphasises more saturated colours, but the TN panel in the New 3DS is hardly accurate as this review of the screen shows. Its white point is 8500K when the ideal should be 6500K and the gamma/saturation curve isn't right either. So I believe that point is moot in both cases.
The handheld that comes closest to true colour accuracy is the PS Vita-2000, which is a close match for my iPhone 5s and indeed employs a high quality IPS LCD panel, one that displays 100% of the sRGB colour gamut and displays those colours as they are intended. Points off for a small amount of backlight bleed near the bottom though.
The New 3DS XL/New 3DS don't offer 100% of the sRGB spectrum of colours for a start, and they aren't calibrated properly.
It's dangerous to associate TN with one thing and IPS with another as it causes people to generalise so I'm only talking about the TN panel in the New 3DS and the IPS panel in the XL. Both TN and IPS can show completely accurate colours if 1) They are capable of displaying 100% of Adobe sRGB and 2) They are properly calibrated at the factory.
Here is a 2012 IPS LCD display, which is colour accurate. Three years later and Apple still uses it, but with a low end device, the 16GB, $199 iPod Touch 6. It is also leagues ahead of the screen in the New 3DS in terms of colour accuracy, calibration, black levels, overall brightness, and it can display 100% of the sRGB gamut. I don't even think the New 3DS's display is as good as the display that shipped in 2010's iPhone 4, also shown in that display review.
I'm not expecting a high end screen with the New 3DS, but I'm expecting Nintendo to care about colour accuracy, and also not ship TN "junk" that is poorly calibrated and has an off-white point. The same goes for the New 3DS XL, though at least they had the decency to source a higher quality panel there, but the calibration lets it down. They are getting there at least, as it's much better calibrated than the original 3DS and XL, and it has a fantastic anti-reflective coating.
What's disappointing is that Sony went down this route, focusing on a colour-accurate, well calibrated panel with the PS Vita-2000. But the audience didn't care, to them it was a big downgrade from the PS Vita-1000's poorly calibrated and flawed second generation OLED display. People now associate LCD screens with "undersaturated colours" which is depressing, though I don't blame them -- it's easy to have your eyes be trained to inaccurate colours and see them as the normal. So I certainly get where you're coming from when you say that the New 3DS isn't necessarily a downgrade due to the calibration of the New 3DS XL's IPS panel being wonky. But the New 3DS isn't well calibrated either, it's just better calibrated.
This. The IPS panels aren't well calibrated, but the TN panels in the New 3DS aren't either. Though it's still a huge leap over the original 3DS, and the anti-reflective coating on both handhelds' displays is much welcome.
So is my phone, but I'm not always holding it head on. Likewise, sometimes I use my 3DS on the table in "laptop" mode, or I'm not facing it head on when holding it with one while standing on public transport, or tilting the device etc etc.
Furthermore, it cheapens the feel of the device to see the colours shift so dramatically when you're not viewing it head on, you can't really appreciate the design of the thing. I get that you won't be using the 3DS off-angle for the majority of the time, but really, the system should "just work" in that there shouldn't be a time where I see the colours shift or where I have to align my head with the screen to see things clearly.
The N3DS TN panels have inaccurate colours that shift too, but yes, the blacks are indeed crushed on the N3DS XL IPS panel. I'd rather have superb viewing angles than slightly better colour calibration. If the N3DS had perfect calibration and 100% of sRGB (thus displaying a much more vivid picture all around, but not too vivid to be inaccurate) then I'd have switched immediately. But I feel the trade-off isn't worth it, as I'm still choosing between two 3DSes with poorly calibrated displays.
In my case it's more that I much prefer the smaller screen, but in this day and age I expect an IPS display, and I'm willing to take larger pixels and slightly worse colour accuracy over terrible viewing angles. I deeply care about colour accuracy as I hope the rest of this post displays, as should my love for the PS Vita-2000's well calibrated display.
Agent Unknown
Member
That's what I'm saying, even if on a technical level the XL's screen is supposed to be "the better kind" what's the point when it makes colors and pixels look worse? And "better viewing angles" is kind of a moot point, who needs to be twisting their 3DS on a regular basis to play their games? I can finally do things like gyro aim in OoT/MM properly without problem and my games all look beautiful, all that's needed.
Toadthemushroom
Member
I don't think the colours are necessarily worse, because both screens aren't accurately calibrated, and I honestly prefer the deeper blacks since this is now going into subjective territory (different matter if one was accurate, one wasn't).
As for the bigger pixels, it doesn't bother me when we're looking at 240p, which will never look crisp or "retina" at any reasonable screen size. The only issue I have with the XL, as I mentioned, is for games that use both screens at once: it's simply too much for my eyes to take in and they have to do a lot of glancing around to see stuff that's easy on a regular 3DS.
I think I got a N3DS with a panel that came with a lower tier supplier, as the viewing angles shift incredibly easy. I move the system a slight amount and I already see the colours washing out in the corners, which isn't a good sign...
Even here, tilting the system a slight amount shows the colours beginning to wash out on the left hand side, it's more distracting IRL:
And this is how bad it gets once you tilt all the way:
DanteRavenkin
Member
I just received my Hori Zero-Air screen protector for N3DS. Order one of these if you have a New 3DS. I cannot believe how easy it was to apply. Was nervous at first cause I only ordered one and didn't want to screw it up, but it went on easy, and you can't even tell it's there. I'm actually amazed at how easy it was.
