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[MUnited83]

So are you gonna do it, or are you just gonna to make it easier to not take anything you say seriously, Mr. "I can make Shenmue in 1 day"?

Good lord your reading comprehension is absolutely terrible. Way to miss the point

 

[Krejlooc]

Nice job of invalidating your post with the first sentence.

Dont worry, the rest of it was garbage anyways.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I mean, think about it. They created the kickstarter, asked for a certain amount of money to make shenmue 3 and then, after a few days and after they already got money from many, many fans Suzuki came out and straight up told people that, nah, they will only be able to make a REAL Shenmue 3 if they got at least 10 million. Seems like they kind of missed to tell us that when announcing the kickstarter?

Do you know how a stretch goal work?

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is that they're not finishing the story with Shenmue 3. "Shenmue comes back after over a decade" is a story. You get media attention with that. You get fans opening up their wallets. "We released 3 and now we want to make installment 4 of 7" doesn't have quite the same ring. Unless 3 does very well, both commercially and critically, they're going to find it difficult to keep the series going. And I'm speaking from personal experience as someone who has helped to resurrect a series that ended prematurely (Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness) - there was a story with "Indie developer resurrects RPG series for game 3 as a 16-bit style RPG" but few people in the media cared to tell the story of "Indie developer continues on and finishes with game 4 in the series." You can see this on Metacritic - we got 18 critic reviews for the 3rd game and only 6 for the final game.

 

[Andrain18]

Not nearly enough money to fund this game

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Not nearly enough money to fund this game

Stop it

 

[SilentRob]

This is exactly the point OP is trying to make. Why do words need to be twisted to become negative.

Why does focussing on story and gameplay suddenly translate into "make it look not terrible!"
Its a game with $6.3m in funding and expectations of visuals will be made according to that. You cant go about comparing to modern AAA titles with $30m-$50m budget.


Based on what you said , its obvious you didnt read the Eurogamer article and just made you own assumptions based on the headline.

WHICH IS EXACTLY what people are complaining about. The article itself is good , the headline on the other hand gets people like you to make their own assumptions.

This is the exact quote:

Can Suzuki make the game that he wants, though, with the resources and technology at hand? "I could do with a bit more money! The game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous visually - a lot of the money these days goes into the graphics. If we perhaps compromise on the graphics and put more into the story, we can make a good game. The most important thing, to me, is that the game's interesting, and that it's something people want to play."

The question was: "Can you make the game that you want with the resources and technology at hand?"

And his answer to that was:

"I could do with a bit more money!"

How is that not worrisome? He tells the interviewer that he'd need more money to actually make what he wants to make. How could you possible be angry at people raising eyebrows at that? How could you possibly not understand why media outlets would focus on the fact that a guy who got three times the target on his kickstarter campaign straight-up says that won't be enough to make what he actually wants to make?

If Ubisoft would Crowdfund, I don't know, Child of Light 2 via Kickstarter and then come up with THAT answer this forum would fucking IMPLODE. There would be violence. Cars would burn and pitchforks would be wielded. But because it's coming from Suzuki, this strange messiah-like figure you seem to build him up to in your heads (and I'm not saying that he's a bad person. But he is a person who reeeeaaaallly seems to want to make Shenmue 3, even when it doesn't hold up to his own standards. Passion can be a bad thing at times) you obviously have to ignore it. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

 

[twobear]

You understand that he would need to delay development ever further then right?

Because while he is developing Shenmue 3 with a $6m budget. He would be in talks to get additional funding.

Now lets say months later he secures this additional $10m. Now he would need to staff up, and scale the $6m project to a $16m project. And that would possibly cause a delay.

You can see how this idea is already making the project a lot worse.


Incoming Article - "Shenmue 3 delayed , $16m not enough"

I mean presumably the deals would have been arranged beforehand; 'if the Kickstarter breaks $X then we'd be willing to give up to $X additional funding'.

 

[Shadoken]

I mean presumably the deals would have been arranged beforehand; 'if the Kickstarter breaks $X then we'd be willing to give up to $X additional funding'.

But Suzuki said he wanted to start development as soon as he got the rights from Sega. I mean yea what you are saying is possible. Just like What Bloodstained did.
But I guess that was hit choice.

 

[Bolivar687]

There's a lot of reasons to be concerned, Sony for sure deserves and needs to be called out for some flat out double speak about their role on the project. Obviously, we want journalists to be critical but it does feel like the media has an agenda against the game and its announcement at E3. Not to sound paranoid but for whatever reason journalists at/from the big outlets seem to get really weird whenever Japanese creators are taking center stage.

I don't know how many of you were watching the YouTube E3 stream but immediately after the conference, all of the panelists with Geoff were trying to downplay the big announcements, while the rest of the internet went insane. When the Kinda Funny Gamescast was discussing the FFVII remake, Greg straight up left the room, saying he does not like Final Fantasy VII. When Kojima left Konami, articles were being written about how it's the final nail in the coffin for Japanese game directors, despite Bloodborne releasing shortly before the split. It's kind of awkward to watch and it seems like it's been happening more and more as big console announcements come out of Japan.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Do you know how a stretch goal work?

It seemed to me more like what Keiji Inafune tried to pull with Red Ash in that the game we'll get feels incomplete. They came off less as stretch goals and more as pieces of a full game.

 

[Htown]

I have no connection to Shenmue myself. I never played it, I have no nostalgia for it.

I've never backed a Kickstarter.

I still think the media coverage of this thing has been bananas. Full on crazy.

 

[Jigorath]

So are you gonna do it, or are you just gonna to make it easier to not take anything you say seriously, Mr. "I can make Shenmue in 1 day"?

You can't be this dense.

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Some AMAZING SHENMUE news came out this week. Nocon kid has joined the development team for Shenmue 3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119958

Of course, the gaming media doesnt want to report this. They'd rather try and make Suzuki sound like a con man.

Disgraceful.

 

[Danlord]

The thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is that they're not finishing the story with Shenmue 3. "Shenmue comes back after over a decade" is a story. You get media attention with that. You get fans opening up their wallets. "We released 3 and now we want to make installment 4 of 7" doesn't have quite the same ring. Unless 3 does very well, both commercially and critically, they're going to find it difficult to keep the series going. And I'm speaking from personal experience as someone who has helped to resurrect a series that ended prematurely (Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness) - there was a story with "Indie developer resurrects RPG series for game 3 as a 16-bit style RPG" but few people in the media cared to tell the story of "Indie developer continues on and finishes with game 4 in the series."

I'm not an invested fan (yet) with Shenmue, but I can appreciate the desire to not wanting to end the story if you've built up such a great foundation. The idea you would want to continue telling a good story for as long as possible is okay in my book. (If that's what you were getting at)

(Off-Topic: I want Cosmic Star Heroine so bad! )

 

[Sumio Mondo]

If people would actually read the EuroGamer article instead of look at the headline and act like the game is "shady" and a "scam", then we'd be doing well in here. If certain people keep claiming they are well informed and then proceed to show ignorance to the latest info and don't want to clue themselves up on it, then we're just wasting our breath.

It's best that we just wait for the first screenshots and working footage of the game to come out before stating that it won't look good enough. Shenmue's engine and years upon years of research (and porting from Saturn to Dreamcast) was a large part of the cost last time around, now with the engine already there, the costs of the development will inevitably...go down. It's not that hard to figure out, yet people will continue their charade of "this is shady" and "game journos are just doing their job, how dare you". I'll just keep my head down and continue to wait for Shenmue 3 and enjoy the game once it comes out, thanks, "caring" journos.

 

[Yurikerr]

Some AMAZING SHENMUE news came out this week. Nocon kid has joined the development team for Shenmue 3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119958

Of course, the gaming media doesnt want to report this. They'd rather try and make Suzuki sound like a con man.

Disgraceful.

Hahhaha, sorry, i could not resist

 

[Shadoken]

This is the exact quote:



The question was: "Can you make the game that you want with the resources and technology at hand?"

And his answer to that was:

"I could do with a bit more money!"

How is that not worrisome? He tells the interviewer that he'd need more money to actually make what he wants to make. How could you possible be angry at people raising eyebrows at that? How could you possibly not understand why media outlets would focus on the fact that a guy who got three times the target on his kickstarter campaign straight-up says that won't be enough to make what he actually wants to make?

If Ubisoft would Crowdfund, I don't know, Child of Light 2 via Kickstarter and then come up with THAT answer this forum would fucking IMPLODE. There would be violence. Cars would burn and pitchforks would be wielded. But because it's coming from Suzuki, this strange messiah-like figure you seem to build him up to in your heads (and I'm not saying that he's a bad person. But he is a person who reeeeaaaallly seems to want to make Shenmue 3, even when it doesn't hold up to his own standards. Passion can be a bad thing at times) you obviously have to ignore it. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

But he always said from the start that $2m is the bare minimum to get Shenmue 3 done. Just a conclusion for the fans. And $10m is where he could make a Shenmue 1 dobuita-esque scale game. We knew this from the start.

I mean had he started Shenmue 3 with a KS goal of $10 nobody would have believed it would reach that. So the $10m is stretch goal.

The thing is most people are upset over Sonys involvement and that is a valid concern. Even though Sony has gone on record to say They are handling Physical production.


But why would any article need to twist a line about "Focussing on Story" into "The game is going to look terrible"


And as for your Ubisoft comment , that would apply if Sega officially did anything to the KS. But they just handed over the rights to YS production and havent been involved at all. Sony is treating them just like any other indie studio. Its not some big AAA deal that they have struck.


Again Nobody is denying the issues with this whole KS. But why sum an entire article into "I need more money" , When there is sooo much more. It shows a false impression to people who are just skimming through the headline. If you actually read the entire article it highlights a lot of positives.

Basically this.

While the original articles during the kickstarter campaign could pass as criticism, the recent articles are just plain click-bait. I mean if you don't see that, you're in denial.

 

[LelouchViBritannia]

Hahhaha, sorry, i could not resist

ha, no worries. I thought that would get quoted. My point still stands however.

 

[Windom Earle]

If Ubisoft would Crowdfund, I don't know, Child of Light 2 via Kickstarter and then come up with THAT answer this forum would fucking IMPLODE. There would be violence. Cars would burn and pitchforks would be wielded. But because it's coming from Suzuki, this strange messiah-like figure you seem to build him up to in your heads (and I'm not saying that he's a bad person. But he is a person who reeeeaaaallly seems to want to make Shenmue 3, even when it doesn't hold up to his own standards. Passion can be a bad thing at times) you obviously have to ignore it. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Comparing the publisher Ubisoft to the person Yu Suzuki?

Also you should read the OP again if you are confused on why people are critical of the concerned media coverage.

 

[twobear]

But Suzuki said he wanted to start development as soon as he got the rights from Sega. I mean yea what you are saying is possible. Just like What Bloodstained did.
But I guess that was hit choice.

And none of that disagrees with what I said; Kickstarter money could be used as a gauge of interest to take to any additional sources of funding even if they start making the game immediately.

 

[Danlord]

Updated the OP with Spaghetti's excellent post, I implore everyone to read it.

 

[Garlador]

Some AMAZING SHENMUE news came out this week. Nocon kid has joined the development team for Shenmue 3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1119958

Of course, the gaming media doesnt want to report this. They'd rather try and make Suzuki sound like a con man.

Disgraceful.

Pretty much, and this isn't exclusive to Shenmue III either. A lot of backers get routine info dumps and exclusive coverage, that news media DOESN'T get, and yet they don't report on it when it happens.

I've backed several projects before, and while there are definitely some bad kickstarters out there, a LOT of the coverage has been based on misinformation or incomplete facts, created as clickbait articles. CREATING news rather than COVERING news.

As an outside observer, I've noticed it's been particularly hard on Shenmue for some bizarre reason. A lot of taking quotes out of context or spinning statements into untruths.

 

[Krejlooc]

And none of that disagrees with what I said; Kickstarter money could be used as a gauge of interest to take to any additional sources of funding even if they start making the game immediately.

Thats not how game development works. You don't start work without a known budget.

 

[TheRed]

Soon the fear mongering will reach Star Citizen levels once it takes a couple years before anything substantial comes out of this. People just can't handle seeing and waiting for a game right from it's earliest stages, no shit it takes long (mostly talking about Star Citizen).

 

[Yurikerr]

ha, no worries. I thought that would get quoted. My point still stands however.

Agreed, but this is just par for the course.

Almost every game gets new talent, but you don't see reports. But when a high level talent leaves some company there's dozens of doom and gloom articles.

That's the reality, almost always negative news and controversy get more clicks than every other theme.

 

[sechsterangriff]

While the original articles during the kickstarter campaign could pass as criticism, the recent articles are just plain click-bait. I mean if you don't see that, you're in denial.

 

[twobear]

Thats not how game development works. You don't start work without a known budget.

It would be an estimated budget plus whatever additional funding had already been secured, which is better than nothing at all.

 

[UberTag]

Updated the OP with Spaghetti's excellent post, I implore everyone to read it.

I've read it. And I applaud it. And I applaud you for ensuring it gets more attention.

 

[Maneauleau]

It's sad to think that had the financing been clearly laid out at the beginning, which should be the norm when you are publicly asking for money while being supported financially by private companies at the same time, then:
- The campaign would have been more successful.
- There would be less articles questioning the financing and more about other aspects.

Nonetheless I also think that almost all the articles that you listed are trash.

 

[Krejlooc]

It would be an estimated budget plus whatever additional funding had already been secured, which is better than nothing at all.

So, after all this fluff about shady practices and poor planning... You come put advocating terrible project management?

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

This is the exact quote:



The question was: "Can you make the game that you want with the resources and technology at hand?"

And his answer to that was:

"I could do with a bit more money!"

How is that not worrisome? He tells the interviewer that he'd need more money to actually make what he wants to make. How could you possible be angry at people raising eyebrows at that? How could you possibly not understand why media outlets would focus on the fact that a guy who got three times the target on his kickstarter campaign straight-up says that won't be enough to make what he actually wants to make?

If Ubisoft would Crowdfund, I don't know, Child of Light 2 via Kickstarter and then come up with THAT answer this forum would fucking IMPLODE. There would be violence. Cars would burn and pitchforks would be wielded. But because it's coming from Suzuki, this strange messiah-like figure you seem to build him up to in your heads (and I'm not saying that he's a bad person. But he is a person who reeeeaaaallly seems to want to make Shenmue 3, even when it doesn't hold up to his own standards. Passion can be a bad thing at times) you obviously have to ignore it. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

That's a bit much.

Yu Suzuki has a track record of being one the best of all time doing what he does. Shenmue was his big project and he's been fighting through so much Sega bs to continue it. Fans wanted it, he wanted it and what chance he had to make it, he went for it. Doing it through Kickstarter was the ONLY way to do so. A lot of Shenmue fans want this story to continue and would settle for anything to learn the rest. Yu is giving us a game and I have no doubt he will give the absolute best he can with what he is given to work with. The base goal was enough to just give us the simple game. With more money comes more features, bigger worlds and extensive little gems that made Shenmue the games fans have come to love. Talk to ANYONE making a game and ask them if a bigger budget would make the game even better.

 

[twobear]

So, after all this fluff about shady practices and poor planning... You come put advocating terrible project management?

I don't remember saying anything about poor planning?

 

[walltowall]

So what is your excuse for repeating the claim that sony is funding this, months after they've clarified they aren't?

Didn't Boyes come out and state that Sony was providing partial funding?

 

[4Tran]

This whole mess is the Dunning-Kruger effect in full display. The people speaking the loudest about how awful the Shenmue Kickstarter is are the very same people who have little idea about how Kickstarter works in general. It's disgraceful coming from gaming journalism, and it's embarrassing coming from gamers.

 

[Ogimachi]

Jeff Gerstman was right. Old school Sega fans really are the worst :/

There is nobody to blame here but Suzuki, the team behind the Kickstarter and Sony. They are responsible for the absolutely terrible messaging and for providing weeks and weeks of mixed messaging regarding the financing of the game.

You know what would have been shameful? If the media would have just bought into the hype of OMGSHENMUE and blindly told people how amazing everything about it is going to be.

I mean, think about it. They created the kickstarter, asked for a certain amount of money to make shenmue 3 and then, after a few days and after they already got money from many, many fans Suzuki came out and straight up told people that, nah, they will only be able to make a REAL Shenmue 3 if they got at least 10 million. Seems like they kind of missed to tell us that when announcing the kickstarter?

The campaign was a disaster, the PR was a disaster and, to this day, the messaging is a disaster. When you end you kickstarter campaign and then come out a few months later saying "Yeah, well, actually, we could need a lot more money to make it look not terrible", no matter in what context, then that project deserves to be criticised for it. If there was ever one kickstarter that was shady from the very get go, it's this.

The fact that Shenmue fans don't wanna see this because, hey, it's Shenmue? Fine. I can accept that. But the way they pile onto the media because they dont blindly buy into the hype, stay wary and ask weridly unanswered questions is pretty - yup - shameful.

Also:



and yet



What am I missing here?

None of the campaign's problems justify the extremely misleading titles and clickbait shit.

 

[Spaghetti]

The question was: "Can you make the game that you want with the resources and technology at hand?"

And his answer to that was:

"I could do with a bit more money!"

No, his answer was:

"I could do with a bit more money! The game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous visually - a lot of the money these days goes into the graphics. If we perhaps compromise on the graphics and put more into the story, we can make a good game. The most important thing, to me, is that the game's interesting, and that it's something people want to play."

As you quoted in your own post.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

It seemed to me more like what Keiji Inafune tried to pull with Red Ash in that the game we'll get feels incomplete. They came off less as stretch goals and more as pieces of a full game.

All the remaining stretch goals were on expanding area already in the games, improving features already in the game and adding mini games.

I don't see how it's akin to Red Ash.

 

[Tain]

The question was: "Can you make the game that you want with the resources and technology at hand?"

And his answer to that was:

"I could do with a bit more money!"

every game director on every project ever

 

[Jigorath]

If Ubisoft would Crowdfund, I don't know, Child of Light 2 via Kickstarter and then come up with THAT answer this forum would fucking IMPLODE. There would be violence. Cars would burn and pitchforks would be wielded. But because it's coming from Suzuki, this strange messiah-like figure you seem to build him up to in your heads (and I'm not saying that he's a bad person. But he is a person who reeeeaaaallly seems to want to make Shenmue 3, even when it doesn't hold up to his own standards. Passion can be a bad thing at times) you obviously have to ignore it. Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Great comparison. Ubisoft and Yu Suzuki are clear in the same boat. Why don't you compare the guy to Bill Gates next? I'm sure he can afford to fund Shenmue III. Why can't that hack Yu Suzuki do the same?

 

[Krejlooc]

Didn't Boyes come out and state that Sony was providing partial funding?

Nope

 

[sechsterangriff]

Didn't Boyes come out and state that Sony was providing partial funding?

If by "funding" you mean assisting with the PS4 version and marketing (otherwise only we would only have a pc version of the game at best), then sure! Those things cost money I guess...

 

[Shadoken]

No, his answer was:

I could do with a bit more money! The game itself doesn't have to be gorgeous visually - a lot of the money these days goes into the graphics. If we perhaps compromise on the graphics and put more into the story, we can make a good game. The most important thing, to me, is that the game's interesting, and that it's something people want to play."

As you quoted in your own post.

And this is why games have PR. You interview a non-PR person and your words get twisted by the media.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Because they came in with a $2mil goal, but then said "Well, we have some nebulous 3rd party backing, oh and also need $10mil on the Kickstarter to do it right."

Frankly I think the Kuchera's piece nails it, albeit somewhat snarkily.

Then don't back it then. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Buy the game when it releases but don't bitch and cry about wanting it when it didn't look like it would ever release.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

Nope

Should help if it hasn't been posted yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dL198n2d0o

 

[Atlas AS7-K]

I've tried to read this whole thread, I'm not convinced that skepticism of this thing isn't healthy and natural, Its not like its HBS we're talking about.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I'm not an invested fan (yet) with Shenmue, but I can appreciate the desire to not wanting to end the story if you've built up such a great foundation. The idea you would want to continue telling a good story for as long as possible is okay in my book. (If that's what you were getting at)

I think what you should do in this sort of situation is to end the main story with the new game but don't do anything final like killing off the main character. That way, you give fans completion and you give yourself an out if the game doesn't do well, while at the same time, you can always go back to the world and make more (new story, same world & characters) if it's a success.

 

[walltowall]

Nope

OK, What did he mean about 1:50 into this interview then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZzuTwTEUE

 

[jrDev]

Sounds like the die hard fans are the only ones hurt by this "shameful" news. Others who aren't die hard can see how this can be a huge disaster. Rose tinted glasses can be fashionable.

.

I'm sorry guys, but this campaign was(is?) a mess, I still don't understand what's going on with this project so I didn't back...

 

[Krejlooc]

OK, What did he mean about 1:50 into this interview then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRZzuTwTEUE

They are helping publishing the ps4 version, not development