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[swazzyswess]

it's not just a bad MGS game, it's an exceptional mediocre game overall. world building is poor, with arguably the most boring AAA open world in recent memory, the story is awkwardly conveyed mostly through audio tapes, and the missions are insultingly repetitive (and that's not even counting the interminable intros, helicopter drop-offs, etc).

most disappointing game of 2015 for me, and the final straw as far as trusting critical reviews is concerned.

 

[gypsygib]

I'd like it a lot more if you could save anywhere. The missions of protracted and slow. It would be nice to be able to save anytime and not have to rely on a checkpoint system.

The game's about an 8/10 imo.

Which is bad considering MGS is my favourite game series of all time.

Story and dialogue are completely lacking. Snake's silence speaks volumes but it's probably better seeing how poor of a fit Sutherland is. But an almost mute Boss doesn't work at all.

And sure, maybe MGS4 went a little overboard with cutscenes (not that I minded) but this game does the reverse with way to little story development. It's just a slow game.

I feel like I'm play a console sequel to Peacewalker (which I also found boring) but with much longer missions. Just getting across the map is a chore.

Pretty graphics though.

 

[KarmaCow]

I'd like it a lot more if you could save anywhere. The missions of protracted and slow. It would be nice to be able to save anytime and not have to rely on a checkpoint system.

I think you can trigger a checkpoint, or at least save the current state of the world by just moving some staff around though I've honestly forgotten a lot about TPP.

 

[Big_Boss_Snake_]

Loved every second of it and still replayng it right now getting all s ranks !!! Awesome game mgs 3 still my favorite tho

 

[half a moon]

I wasn't feeling it at all. Quit after mission 4.

 

[Chabbles]

Yeah, and you know if only an option to pick any available mission and "Go to mission start" was available, or something similar to keep things rolling. It could be a much better MGS game.

In the 21 or so hours i've put in, the long journeys between missions are becoming dull now. And when a large portion of the gameplay is getting from one mission to the next, thats alot of potentially dull gameplay.

 

[doofy102]

All that travel makes for a much milder version of Windwaker's thing.

 

[leng jai]

it's not just a bad MGS game, it's an exceptional mediocre game overall. world building is poor, with arguably the most boring AAA open world in recent memory, the story is awkwardly conveyed mostly through audio tapes, and the missions are insultingly repetitive (and that's not even counting the interminable intros, helicopter drop-offs, etc).

most disappointing game of 2015 for me, and the final straw as far as trusting critical reviews is concerned.

That's the thing - it's not even a 9/10 for me if you take out the MGS factor.

- Nonsense story with terrible characters.

- Boring and repetitive looking open world. It has potential for sandbox gameplay but no other redeeming features.

- Repetitive mission design.

- All the FOB and micro transaction bullshit.

- Motherbase was basically nothing.

- The whole game structure and Chapter 2 debacle. "Credits" at the end of every mission and having to constantly use the helicopter.

- The whole first hour.

- No good boss fights to speak of.

 

[Captains Curse]

I thought it was cool to see some origins of some of my favorite characters.

Chapter 2 felt like a chore. Call Pequot, get off, open your map, select markers, sneak for equipment, wonder why you are in the same mission again. Repeat.


I might go back in a few months but finishing a mgs game has never been more relieving.

 

[Dixon's Jet]

It's more than mission 51 being cut. It's guesswork, but the more I think about this game, the more I believe it's terribly butchered.

Ground Zeroes was probably gonna be the original prologue to mgsv. Battle gear was probably cut because Kojima didn't have time to make it work due to the rocks scattered all over the game, I don't know. The incredible shitshow makes it plain; they fucked up.

No reason not to think there's lots of cut stuff we'll never hear about.

 

[Gorillaz]

MGS V is such an interesting title. Especially in terms of development and reception. If MGS V wasn't a MGS would it have been appreciated more or hated more? same with development would Kojima be able to get as much control and direction in terms of budget and what it went to if it wasn't a MGS? Getting 5ish years and 80 million for one title is a big request. Unless you are the Houser Brothers pubs ain't trying to hear all that shit.


The choices made on MGSV felt like a "If I could I would have made any other game or new IP but since Im stuck with this one so I'm just going to make said new ideas but with a MGS coating".

Like this game comes off as Kojima saying "PLS let me make something new"


That said, one of the best experiences as a whole despite the stuff holding it back. Which, in my opinion, is an even bigger testament to what they were at least striving for.

 

[Natels]

I mean, calling it an awful game is just exageration.

Near perfect gameplay with bad story, character development and repetitive missions.

 

[Muffdraul]

Ground Zeroes was probably gonna be the original prologue to mgsv.

No probably about it, Kojima openly admitted it pretty much as soon as The Phantom Pain being MGS5 was officially announced.

 

[Benzychenz]

I mean, calling it an awful game is just exageration.

Near perfect gameplay with bad story, character development and repetitive missions.

'Near perfect gameplay' I don't agree with though. Like, the core stealth mechanics are great, but calling in helicopters, and running across the map, and managing your mother base staff, developing items, and deployment missions etc etc are all part of the gameplay, and a lot of it is really bad.

But yeah, calling it awful is exaggerating, I'd give it a 7/10 personally.

 

[Zebetite]

there hasn't been a good metal gear solid game since 2005 so really what did they have to lose by going out of their way to make a bad one?

i do not hold mgs5 in the same high regard as i do the first three, nor do i hold it with the reverence that a lot of people seem to have for it right now, but its a pretty alright video game. i'll take it!

 

[dcb2821]

I actually love the game. That being said, the side missions do get repetitve at times and I don't think it needed to be open world.

 

[Mix Master]

we knew this since day 1 lol.

 

[Pachinko]

I'll go one step further and say it's kind of a mess. Really, think about what you spend most of your time doing in MGSV's game world. The answer is busy work.

After an insane "typical MGS" crazy hour long introduction sequence the game drops you in a seemingly wide open environment to rescue your old buddy , there are many angles to achieve this goal but ultimately it ends with a scripted chase sequence and an introduction to mother base- the oil rig converted into snakes operational headquarters.

Up to this point , the core game play feels like a wonderful culmination of MGS3 and MGS4's ideas of how to do stealth properly. It really does work quite well and it even feels pretty fun !

This love affair doesn't really last though , as you go through missions and side ops you might notice that every single level (outside of a couple) boils down doing pretty much the exact same thing - sneak into a base , deal with its defenses and capture a guard or save a prisoner. Each base/town/cave/whatever is pretty much the same shit , sneak in at night after riding a horse for 10-20 boring minutes (or wait 5 minutes for a helicopter and fly 5 minutes away) , put on the night vision goggles and knock out all of the guards very slowly , then wake one up and interrogate them and Fulton away any guards that have decent stats or special abilities. I was doing a combination of side ops and main ops just as I described and that leads to another facet of this game - the boring spreadsheet side. As you capture prisoners and soldiers they'll level up your base , this gives you access to better weapons and equipment which in turn is then used to capture more guys to give you better weapons and equipment. It never ends. In some games , much of this stuff would be optional but here ? it's pretty much mandatory unless you want to keep doing the exact same loadout on levels that blur together in their blandness as it is.

Sure the game eventually gives you a dog but it's at the expense of the faster travel the horse offers. You also get the much hyped Quiet but the core game is just doing the same tasks hundreds of times over and over again. As you fill up that spreadsheet with more men and more stuff the game will open up an online mode where you can steal junk from other players or even open yourself up to having your stuff taken. This FOB mini-game has recieved much flack for good reason , it's the ultimate goal Konami has in mind for players of MGS5. They want you to invest(waste) so much time playing the single player that you'll toss all that time online and risk it or spend money to get more faster... kind of like a bullshit mobile free to play game.

Now in some cases, a game like this might be worth playing for it's story but there really isn't a story in MGSV. There's just a bunch of lore that you have to listen to at your own leisure in the form of audio cassette tapes. So to sum up, this game is so boring and relies so much on time invested that they give the player something to listen to while the online portion plays itself. The longer you spend "logged in" to MGSV the more stuff happens. You can't even upgrade your base between play sessions for crying out loud. Nope, you've gotta wait 1-2 real world hours to build each of about 20 base expansions for mother base. So get back out in the field and collect shit for no real good reason.

Full disclosure for my personal play session - I made it to the first Africa mission 2 weeks ago and haven't touched the game since. It simply doesn't respect my time.

 

[NotLiquid]

It becomes really surprising to me when playing MGSV how evidently clear it becomes that you can throw millions of dollars onto a crack team that manage to work things down to the littlest details in creative ways that put most modern AAA to shame, and still come out with such a woefully misdirected game that wears out it's welcome really fast.

I enjoyed MGSV in the moment. It definitely felt engrossing, and it's an admirable attempt to finally bring the concept of organic game play full circle. But in time the lastability of each moment becomes all the more fleeting as missions become even more stale, even less memorable, even less enjoyable. It definitely felt like the spark of the MGS series as a whole was lacking in this one which is a shame because in spite of my woes that this was going to be the most unnecessary title, I actually found Ground Zeroes to be an optimistic piece of work as long as you didn't pay $40 for it - even if I didn't care much for the story at this point the game was interesting.

The Phantom Pain was just kind of terrible in how it strung together the entire game portion. I honestly believe Ground Zeroes was a much better game. It had a much more memorable map, missions, setting, etc. that for the most of the part fell in line with how Metal Gear had been up til now. But The Phantom Pain introduces so much fluff it becomes unbearable. You're given a plethora of ways to tackle missions but dominant strategy makes it hard to go for anything else due to how poorly constructed the bases and levels are. There were only really two memorable facilities in the entire game and the setting as a whole was boring.

... But the crazy thing is I hesitate to say it's a "great game" even in terms of judging it from a non-Metal Gear perspective because most of the things I actually enjoyed in this game were on account of the things Metal Gear had established. I feel like I can appreciate good story, good mechanics etc. outside of whatever franchise they stem from but anything MGSV introduces that comes without a frame of reference is wholly misguided and pretty badly done. The story for instance, is absolutely terrible. I'm not going to claim that the previous MGS games were high art in this regard but they had definitive beginnings, character arcs and endings even if they were overly wordy and prioritized text over subtext most of the time. MGS4 was the first Metal Gear game I ever played and even though I didn't understand half of the things going on as a non-fan I still enjoyed it because the characters were fun and the story was consistently moving forward with a solid goal in mind. MGSV has none of that. Even when it goes for the whole "gotcha" moment twist that the game kind of revolves around it bungles it spectacularly in contrast to a game like MGS2 that spent the entire game building and pacing itself, mechanically and story-wise, to it's grand finale. There's no reason to care about anything that goes on in MGSV unless you actually care about Big Boss who is now a cardboard cut out, Kaz who is serving Angry McDonald's and Ocelot who is Troy Baker building themselves a villain outfit and then padding out the game time. Even mechanically the game rehashes too many missions, spends so much time dragging in it's mundane minutiae of farming materials to build equipment, doing lame sidequests etc. that quickly becomes a drag.

No, honestly, I think being a Metal Gear fan allowed me to actually overlook issues this game had that I wouldn't have done if I wasn't one. I have absolutely no desire to replay this game any time soon knowing that so much of my time is being wasted on downtime and set pieces that lack any sort of lasting impact.

 

[Natels]

'Near perfect gameplay' I don't agree with though. Like, the core stealth mechanics are great, but calling in helicopters, and running across the map, and managing your mother base staff, developing items, and deployment missions etc etc are all part of the gameplay, and a lot of it is really bad.

But yeah, calling it awful is exaggerating, I'd give it a 7/10 personally.

I agree with what you said but that is bad game design, nothing to do with gameplay imo.

 

[Sora the Cat]

I'll go one step further and say it's kind of a mess. Really, think about what you spend most of your time doing in MGSV's game world. The answer is busy work.

Wait, that's not the answer for me. In my case I spend most of my time having genuinely fun. And, as I have said before, I don't tend to like open world games nowadays, but in MGSV I was always enjoying myself, the game just never got boring. And believe me, I'm the kind of guy that leaves a game as soon as it gets boring or repetitive, that just didn't happen to me with this one.

So please, don't speak for everyone else, there are a lot of people here who really loved the game and weren't doing any kind of "busy work" while playing it.

 

[Vagrant]

I'll go one step further and say it's kind of a mess. Really, think about what you spend most of your time doing in MGSV's game world. The answer is busy work.

After an insane "typical MGS" crazy hour long introduction sequence the game drops you in a seemingly wide open environment to rescue your old buddy , there are many angles to achieve this goal but ultimately it ends with a scripted chase sequence and an introduction to mother base- the oil rig converted into snakes operational headquarters.

Up to this point , the core game play feels like a wonderful culmination of MGS3 and MGS4's ideas of how to do stealth properly. It really does work quite well and it even feels pretty fun !

This love affair doesn't really last though , as you go through missions and side ops you might notice that every single level (outside of a couple) boils down doing pretty much the exact same thing - sneak into a base , deal with its defenses and capture a guard or save a prisoner. Each base/town/cave/whatever is pretty much the same shit , sneak in at night after riding a horse for 10-20 boring minutes (or wait 5 minutes for a helicopter and fly 5 minutes away) , put on the night vision goggles and knock out all of the guards very slowly , then wake one up and interrogate them and Fulton away any guards that have decent stats or special abilities. I was doing a combination of side ops and main ops just as I described and that leads to another facet of this game - the boring spreadsheet side. As you capture prisoners and soldiers they'll level up your base , this gives you access to better weapons and equipment which in turn is then used to capture more guys to give you better weapons and equipment. It never ends. In some games , much of this stuff would be optional but here ? it's pretty much mandatory unless you want to keep doing the exact same loadout on levels that blur together in their blandness as it is.

Sure the game eventually gives you a dog but it's at the expense of the faster travel the horse offers. You also get the much hyped Quiet but the core game is just doing the same tasks hundreds of times over and over again. As you fill up that spreadsheet with more men and more stuff the game will open up an online mode where you can steal junk from other players or even open yourself up to having your stuff taken. This FOB mini-game has recieved much flack for good reason , it's the ultimate goal Konami has in mind for players of MGS5. They want you to invest(waste) so much time playing the single player that you'll toss all that time online and risk it or spend money to get more faster... kind of like a bullshit mobile free to play game.

Now in some cases, a game like this might be worth playing for it's story but there really isn't a story in MGSV. There's just a bunch of lore that you have to listen to at your own leisure in the form of audio cassette tapes. So to sum up, this game is so boring and relies so much on time invested that they give the player something to listen to while the online portion plays itself. The longer you spend "logged in" to MGSV the more stuff happens. You can't even upgrade your base between play sessions for crying out loud. Nope, you've gotta wait 1-2 real world hours to build each of about 20 base expansions for mother base. So get back out in the field and collect shit for no real good reason.

Full disclosure for my personal play session - I made it to the first Africa mission 2 weeks ago and haven't touched the game since. It simply doesn't respect my time.

I'm sure your experience was as you say it was, but just to clear up a few things I think you have wrong:

It isn't a scripted chase sequence. the chase sequence doesn't even have to happen, you can sneak right past. For main missions you never have to ride the horse for 20 minutes, not unless its something like mission 9. The dog doesn't mean you have to go slow, you can use a jeep.

Also, no offense but it sounds like you played the game in a very grindy and repetitive way (always at night, forcing yourself to do side missions you didn't want to do), that may have contributed a lot to burning out on it quickly.

 

[bomma_man]

best game i've played in years.


as opposed to the worst movie i've ever seen (mgs4)

 

[Yopis]

Loved every second of it and still replayng it right now getting all s ranks !!! Awesome game mgs 3 still my favorite tho

Same rank for me. MGSV is second favorite in series to me. Best gameplay ever. So many ways to tackle things great stuff.

 

[Vagrant]

IYou're given a plethora of ways to tackle missions but dominant strategy makes it hard to go for anything else due to how poorly constructed the bases and levels are. There were only really two memorable facilities in the entire game and the setting as a whole was boring.

What is this dominant strategy?

 

[Roni]

After an insane "typical MGS" crazy hour long introduction sequence the game drops you in a seemingly wide open environment to rescue your old buddy , there are many angles to achieve this goal but ultimately it ends with a scripted chase sequence and an introduction to mother base- the oil rig converted into snakes operational headquarters.

Scripted? You can go wherever you want within the AO and you can even skip the chase by either slipping away undetected or even calling the chopper to another LZ.

...notice that every single level (outside of a couple) boils down doing pretty much the exact same thing - sneak into a base , deal with its defenses and capture a guard or save a prisoner. Each base/town/cave/whatever is pretty much the same shit , sneak in at night after riding a horse for 10-20 boring minutes (or wait 5 minutes for a helicopter and fly 5 minutes away) , put on the night vision goggles and knock out all of the guards very slowly , then wake one up and interrogate them and Fulton away any guards that have decent stats or special abilities.

This is you finding a way to deal with the game and sticking with it. The game offers you so many more options and instead of exploring and seeing how all these little things stack up and interact with each other, you keep doing the same thing. No wonder this game isn't impressing you. You're expecting European Extreme when the game doesn't even have a selective difficulty mode.

Why not infiltrate during the day? Why not use Quiet and get a vehicle to move around the map? Why not ditch the night vision googles? Why not go on a run with only unsilenced weapons? Why not see what happens when you go in with the worst weapons? Have you used decoys? What about sleep mines? Have you tried out D-Walker? How challenging is it when you equip the flamethrower and get great short-range firepower, but sacrifices range? Have you tried engaging in a firefight without dismounting D-Horse? How much more effective are you if he's equipped with the best armor? How does the Naked and Standard fatigues differ in terms of camouflage?

These are only a small sample of questions you can answer in the game...

You still haven't even reached Normal difficulty by what I read. The game only gets challenging once you start finding S-ranked soldiers on the field. There's much for you to learn about it.

it's pretty much mandatory unless you want to keep doing the exact same loadout on levels that blur together in their blandness as it is.

So you complain that getting new weapons is pointless, only to turn around and complain that you it's feel mandatory because otherwise you never get new weapons?

It simply doesn't respect my time.

Sounds like you're not respecting your own time by aiming to beat MGSV instead of simply enjoying it.

 

[Undead]

What is this dominant strategy?

Tranq EVERYONE, fulton those who may be a good addition on mother base, headshot those who wouldn't be.

Why are people praising the opening? it was awful, sooooo fucking slow and annoying, snake flopping around on the floor like David Hasselhoff.

 

[NotLiquid]

What is this dominant strategy?

Empty magazines, fulton and tranq gun, cruise control for successful infiltrations. Build up for a sniper rifle and you'll be even more set for life.

With the exception of missions where I have to destroy things (which were incidentally the worst missions in the game, exception being Mission 13 and others where I could just place explosives and sneak back to the helicopter before detonating) I didn't even need to use half of the other gimmicky stuff the game allowed me to build just because of how much of a winning combination it was. "Here's about fifty different lethal guns you can build - wait, what's that, there's a Fulton mechanic and you score more for going non-lethal? Welp, pack it up guys".

 

[PandaAttack]

I'm buying it for MGO. I don't think I'll play SP.

 

[alterno69]

MGSV might be a good game but it's not a good MGS game, the world is relly boring to look at, yes the sandbox is good but every location looks exactly the same, part of what made me love the series was the amazing locations, and of course the crazy cutscenes, both are missing here.

 

[Alebrije]

Tranq EVERYONE, fulton those who may be a good addition on mother base, headshot those who wouldn't be.

Why are people praising the opening? it was awful, sooooo fucking slow and annoying, snake flopping around on the floor like David Hasselhoff.

Naaah, use grenade launcher with decoys while listening Rebel Yell...

 

[Duxxy3]

By far the worst in the main series IMO. Still regret buying it digitally.

 

[Soyongdori]

Tranq EVERYONE, fulton those who may be a good addition on mother base

This is the main reason why any other tactics in MGSV becomes completely meaningless. There is basically no challenge at all and base building is just another chore to the game that already feels like a chore.

 

[Muffin Awesome]

I am extremely perturbed in regards to my feelings for this game.

I sold a PS4 after playing Ground Zeroes to build a PC so I could experience this game at the best possible everything.

I made it to chapter 2, abruptly stopped playing. This was 3 weeks ago, I just don't feel like playing anymore, I have played every single game with Metal and Gear in the same title...

I am so disappointed in this experience, I don't know what I was expecting. After Ground Zeroes I thought I was in for more of that type of game, pure open stealth, then story advancement and more gameplay, I don't know this game just felt disjointed to me.

MGS V to me =

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

reminds me a lot of FF XII...

in that, you got a bad reception from those who expected a certain thing, but a good reception from those who (whether or not they liked/expected that other certain thing) enjoyed the new thing even more


dunno if I'll place MGS V about MGS3... but definitely waaay above MGS4 and I hated MGS2 so yeah... I'm satisfied lol


plus, series aside, the sort of build a base, recruit an army, do jobs across an open world is awesome. Mother Base is maybe my new favorite 'player base' in a game, whether it be XCOM's base, Suikoden or Dragon Age's castles, Payday or GTA safehouses, etc... not in terms of gameplay but in terms of story, purpose, just visual design... definitely Mother Base

 

[Vagrant]

Empty magazines, fulton and tranq gun, cruise control for successful infiltrations. Build up for a sniper rifle and you'll be even more set for life.

With the exception of missions where I have to destroy things (which were incidentally the worst missions in the game, exception being Mission 13 and others where I could just place explosives and sneak back to the helicopter before detonating) I didn't even need to use half of the other gimmicky stuff the game allowed me to build just because of how much of a winning combination it was. "Here's about fifty different lethal guns you can build - wait, what's that, there's a Fulton mechanic and you score more for going non-lethal? Welp, pack it up guys".

You said it was hard to use other strategies because of level design. But, I don't see how you're making the case for that. It sounds like you found one way you liked and stopped trying other ones. It's an easy game, every strategy can become the dominant strategy practically. You can easily beat every mission without a tranq, sniper rifle, or magazines. I can easily say the dominant strategy is rocket fist. Or assault rifle and decoys. Or D-walker. Or sleep grenades and bionic arm. Or tanks. Or shotgun and heavy machingun. Any one of those could be used to beat most missions just as easily as your prescription of a dominant strategy. If you keep using the same strategy, that's on you. This game doesn't force you to play in any one way. It's completely up to the player to determine how to play, and trusts them to vary it up on their own. Other types of playthroughs are completely possible and valid in this, especially compared to any previous MGS, where tranq gun was by far the best tool at all times. Here it isn't.

As for needing the fulton mechanic, you get volunteers for beating missions. More if you don't fulton. Try getting a no traces bonus, watch how many volunteers you get. And you only score marginally more for going non-lethal. Less in fact than for not using reflex, but most people aren't afraid to lose that bonus. Plus speed is the number one determinant with rank, and lethal usually is faster than non-lethal.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

another thing is that you can still fulton a lot of people by playing lethal... you don't have to go slow, stealth, tranqs/NL rubber bullets to fulton ppl....

lethal can result in injured victims pretty regularly if you're careful where you shoot. you can still fulton a lot of people if you use lethal smgs, rifles, lmg but just try go for extremity shots... leg shots, etc. i'll go into a guard post and just spray the eff out of it with a lmg or smg, and if you're careful to not 'over shoot' them (lol) and mostly aim for the legs and arms, you still can fulton a lot of people

especially once you get up around 50K Heroism and your Medic team is probably more reliable in saving injured people. it's riskier and you do get less, but you get them at a much faster rate too (and faster also means more volunteers per mission)

 

[NotLiquid]

You said it was hard to use other strategies because of level design, it sounds like you found one way you liked and stopped trying other ones. It's an easy game, every strategy can become the dominant strategy practically. You can easily beat every mission without a tranq, sniper rifle, or magazines. I can easily say the dominant strategy is rocket fist. Or assault rifle and decoys. Or D-walker. Or sleep grenades and bionic arm. Or tanks. Or shotgun and heavy machingun. Any one of those could be used to beat most missions just as easily as your prescription of a dominant strategy.

As for needing the fulton mechanic, you get volunteers for beating missions. More if you don't fulton. Try getting a no traces bonus, watch how many volunteers you get. And you only score marginally more for going non-lethal. Less in fact than for not using reflex, but most people aren't afraid to lose that bonus. Plus speed is the number one determinant with rank, and lethal usually is faster than non-lethal.

I never said it was hard to use other strategies. Dominant strategy means that if you're given a better option to dispatch enemies there is no reason not to use it, and Metal Gear Solid V is designed in such a way that there's almost never a reason not to go with said loadout because the benefits you get in terms of score, mother base resources and such makes it more beneficial to go non-lethal, and the tools which allow you to do so are available from the start, and crazy trivial.

None of the things you mentioned are the best option in MGSV because you get less score for doing lethal runs, don't get the mother base benefits and you're bound to draw an insane amount of attention by running in guns blazing. That's not a dominant strategy. Rocket Fist might be useful but it's just a gimmick and apart from a fun novelty I never needed it once I got the sniper. Decoys are are a worse alternative to empty magazines since they put guards in a caution phase. The Bionic Arm is useless since you already have CQC to knock out enemies. All of those are just gimmicks that are fun to use once but never actually find themselves in regular rotation once I'm actually trying to beat a mission the best way possible.

This isn't Just Cause 2. I don't get any benefits from doing any wicked elaborate trick shots. I don't get rewarded for concocting an elaborate scheme - in fact I lose Heroism half of the time because I get put into an alert phase when trying to do something cool. The game rewards you more for going in fast, getting out fast undetected, collecting a bunch of shit and you have the best possible load out to do that right from the start. Only reason I had to go lethal was to build my buddy ranking with Quiet so she too could get a taste of the non-lethal Sniper that was the only thing I looked forward to actually building.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

^well it depends... the biggest factor in Rank score is probably time and then Stealth

so bum rushing a mission with a silenced lethal assault rifle is one of the best ways to get at least an A rank

and you get a ton of Volunteers (and complete more missions per hour therefore more volunteers per hour), and if you consider how much faster you finish the mission, you probably earn a similar number of top-rank Soldiers per hour as had you slowly fulton-ed everyone (which makes getting total stealth a lot harder/slower because it's very fast to stay stealth lethally; less so when you have to fulton everyone).

 

[Vagrant]

I never said it was hard to use other strategies. Dominant strategy means that if you're given a better option to dispatch enemies there is no reason not to use it, and Metal Gear Solid V is designed in such a way that there's almost never a reason not to go with said loadout because the benefits you get in terms of score, mother base resources and such makes it more beneficial to go non-lethal, and the tools which allow you to do so are available from the start, and crazy trivial.

None of the things you mentioned are the best option in MGSV because you get less score for doing lethal runs, don't get the mother base benefits and you're bound to draw an insane amount of attention by running in guns blazing. That's not a dominant strategy. Rocket Fist might be useful but it's just a gimmick and apart from a fun novelty I never needed it once I got the sniper. Decoys are are a worse alternative to empty magazines since they put guards in a caution phase. The Bionic Arm is useless since you already have CQC to knock out enemies. All of those are just gimmicks that are fun to use once but never actually find themselves in regular rotation once I'm actually trying to beat a mission the best way possible.

Did you even read my post completely? I addressed your part about score and volunteers and you completely ignored it. Tranq, magazines, and fulton aren't dominant strategy by your standards even, if you're using those you're going slower than lethal and scoring less points. Btw did you use reflex, yes or no?

As for the second part of your post, you aren't guaranteed to get a combat alert because you used lethal weapons, try them sometime. So how is a tranq better than a rocket arm against an armored guard? If you think decoys have to cause an alert you need to get better at using them (btw protip: they're better for armored guards than tranqs too).

The reward for playing in an uncreative and boring way is marginally different than the one for keeping it varied. Actually the latter is better since the game is ya know, more fun.

 

[bargeparty]

You said it was hard to use other strategies because of level design. But, I don't see how you're making the case for that. It sounds like you found one way you liked and stopped trying other ones. It's an easy game, every strategy can become the dominant strategy practically. You can easily beat every mission without a tranq, sniper rifle, or magazines. I can easily say the dominant strategy is rocket fist. Or assault rifle and decoys. Or D-walker. Or sleep grenades and bionic arm. Or tanks. Or shotgun and heavy machingun. Any one of those could be used to beat most missions just as easily as your prescription of a dominant strategy. If you keep using the same strategy, that's on you. This game doesn't force you to play in any one way. It's completely up to the player to determine how to play, and trusts them to vary it up on their own. Other types of playthroughs are completely possible and valid in this, especially compared to any previous MGS, where tranq gun was by far the best tool at all times. Here it isn't.

As for needing the fulton mechanic, you get volunteers for beating missions. More if you don't fulton. Try getting a no traces bonus, watch how many volunteers you get. And you only score marginally more for going non-lethal. Less in fact than for not using reflex, but most people aren't afraid to lose that bonus. Plus speed is the number one determinant with rank, and lethal usually is faster than non-lethal.

None of this matters when every mission is the same, the story is garbage, the characters are not interesting and there are 2 basically empty zones that are a pain in the ass to traverse.

 

[NotLiquid]

Did you even read my post completely? I addressed your part about score and volunteers and you completely ignored it.

Volunteers won't carry you in terms of benefits - you still get more out of fultoning, not to mention the act of doing so completely removes enemies as a factor in stages that you have to worry about. Not only does it remove them from the battle field, it gives you an extra bonus back at your base, so your volunteer point has literally nothing to do with my point and how it optimizes strategy greatly.

The ratio of speed in terms of going lethal ain't worth the concession of bonuses or the mounds of frustration experienced when the bases go into total lock down. Not to mention - a majority of the missions in MGSV contain side objectives that are most optimally cleared playing non-lethal which still plays into a better end result. Metal Gear is and has always been a game that has favored infiltration over detection which is still mechanically where it's more satisfying and adaptable to play. To that end there are very few benefits you get going lethal as opposed to going non-lethal.

 

[Roni]

I never said it was hard to use other strategies. Dominant strategy means that if you're given a better option to dispatch enemies there is no reason not to use it, and Metal Gear Solid V is designed in such a way that there's almost never a reason not to go with said loadout because the benefits you get in terms of score, mother base resources and such makes it more beneficial to go non-lethal, and the tools which allow you to do so are available from the start, and crazy trivial.

None of the things you mentioned are the best option in MGSV because you get less score for doing lethal runs, don't get the mother base benefits and you're bound to draw an insane amount of attention by running in guns blazing. That's not a dominant strategy. Rocket Fist might be useful but it's just a gimmick and apart from a fun novelty I never needed it once I got the sniper. Decoys are are a worse alternative to empty magazines since they put guards in a caution phase. The Bionic Arm is useless since you already have CQC to knock out enemies. All of those are just gimmicks that are fun to use once but never actually find themselves in regular rotation once I'm actually trying to beat a mission the best way possible.

This isn't Just Cause 2. I don't get any benefits from doing any wicked elaborate trick shots. I don't get rewarded for concocting an elaborate scheme - in fact I lose Heroism half of the time because I get put into an alert phase when trying to do something cool. The game rewards you more for going in fast, getting out fast undetected, collecting a bunch of shit and you have the best possible load out to do that right from the start. Only reason I had to go lethal was to build my buddy ranking with Quiet so she too could get a taste of the non-lethal Sniper that was the only thing I looked forward to actually building.

Why do you play games?

 

[NotLiquid]

Why do you play games?

Cause I greatly enjoy games and believe the medium to be a true source of inspiration in more ways than one.

Unfortunately MGSV is too devoid of context for me to appreciate its style that lacks in substance.

 

[swazzyswess]

Tranq EVERYONE, fulton those who may be a good addition on mother base, headshot those who wouldn't be.

this is the game in a nutshell. yes, there are many other gadgets to use, but why would a person avoid a strategy that is the most efficient way to handle the game's grindy metagame?

edit: ...so basically what NotLiquid said above much more eloquently than I did.

 

[Vagrant]

Volunteers won't carry you in terms of benefits - you still get more out of fultoning, not to mention the act of doing so completely removes enemies as a factor in stages that you have to worry about. Not only does it remove them from the battle field, it gives you an extra bonus back at your base, so your volunteer point has literally nothing to do with my point and how it optimizes strategy greatly.

The ratio of speed in terms of going lethal ain't worth the concession of bonuses or the mounds of frustration experienced when the bases go into total lock down. Not to mention - a majority of the missions in MGSV contain side objectives that are most optimally cleared playing non-lethal which still plays into a better end result. Metal Gear is and has always been a game that has favored infiltration over detection which is still mechanically where it's more satisfying and adaptable to play. To that end there are very few benefits you get going lethal as opposed to going non-lethal.

Did you use reflex?

Non lethal bonus is 5000 points. marginal. Non-lethal =/= combat alerts. Shooting someone also removes them from the field. Volunteers are plentiful and you don't need *that* many guys.
Speed is by far a greater factor than non-lethal. Should I upload some videos for you? pick a mission and we will see who scores higher with your loadout vs some random one I pick with no tranqs, magazines, or snipers .

 

[120v]

reminds me a lot of FF XII...

in that, you got a bad reception from those who expected a certain thing, but a good reception from those who (whether or not they liked/expected that other certain thing) enjoyed the new thing even more

there's that, and they're both unfinished games

 

[SuperAngelo64]

It's a terrible Metal Gear game, but it's a really good game.

I love the Metal Gear series, but 5 is something new. Very few moments felt like Metal Gear Sold (mainly indoor areas, like the mission to find

Spoiler

Code Talker

) and during those missions I had a brief moment of 'oh yeah, I remember why sneaking indoors was so much harder...'.

Still really loved 5 and I think it will go through the 'Mario Sunshine' cycle; where some radical change is introduced after people have been waiting for a new installment and they go 'we were waiting for THIS?! Fuck Kojima/Miyamoto/Sakurai/SEGA! THIS isn't the thing you said was THE THING!' and then once a new installment comes along afterwards we look back on it and say 'Oh yeah, wow, FLUDD was kind of a cool idea'.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Non lethal bonus is 5000 points. marginal. Non-lethal =/= combat alerts. Shooting someone also removes them from the field. Volunteers are plentiful and you don't need *that* many guys. Speed is by far a greater factor than non-lethal. Should I upload some videos for you? pick a mission and we will see who scores higher with your loadout vs some random one I pick with no tranqs, magazines, or snipers .

yeah and the benefits of extra soldiers can be rather overstated... extra combat, support, intel, medic, etc don't make that important of a contribution... i mean, really, I play with No Markers and even going back to E or D rank support, intel, etc you're really not that disadvantaged. heck... the game is even more fun that way ;p

my first file was mostly tranq/fulton at least half, maybe upwards of 75%... my new one is basically full rambo, and while i'm 'less advanced' at, say, Mission 10 then my first one, i feel about the same at 'Hour 10' ... progress per hour doesn't seem that much difference. i mean, which is the 'best'? i mean, i dunno... there are so many other things to factor... i mean, also fuel?

farming missions very fast like Rambo also generates a lot more fuel.. so, what's better? faster fultons of B and A rank solders for your intel and support teams, or faster fuel? i'm not convinced that slowly fultoning everyone really unlocks 4/4 MB and FOB or S rank volunteers faster...

and most of those earlier soldiers are all going to be deleted anyhow

you could be better off completing the game 2-3x faster and unlocking S rank volunteers sooner

or just bum rushing through missions and farming fuel to get a 4/4 MB/FOB faster and then worrying about getting 1400 S rank soldiers after you finish the game much faster than if you tried to tranq/fulton everyone

i played about 250 hours or so one way (up to about 515,000 Heroism) basically pick up everything, fulton most ppl, etc and now i'm about 50-75 hours going full rambo... i don't find the difference 'per hour' in 'total progress' (so, story unlocks to higher Rank soldiers... Fuel... MB 4/4 platforms) to be that much... both seem viable.

 

[NotLiquid]

Did you use reflex?

Non lethal bonus is 5000 points. marginal. Non-lethal =/= combat alerts. Shooting someone also removes them from the field. Volunteers are plentiful and you don't need *that* many guys.
Speed is by far a greater factor than non-lethal. Should I upload some videos for you? pick a mission and we will see who scores higher with your loadout vs some random one I pick with no tranqs, magazines, or snipers .

You're getting too hung up on the scoring itself, mate. The benefits you get from fulton extraction, non-detection, resources, heroism, bonuses etc. still strongly benefit from an overall non-lethal approach because there's no reason not to gun for that if you're trying to avoid detection. The long term benefits are much better overall, and more importantly it's easier to do so because the starting kit is crazy good and lets you avoid confrontation better than most of anything else you get down the line. That is the main key you're ignoring here in terms of it being a dominant strategy.

I have no interest in competing for who gets the better score at a mission, I really couldn't care less.