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[Yudoken]

Disclosure!
I'm a long time Nvidia user and had experiences with AMD cards as well, currently owning two 970s (but soon I will sell one because I'm not really satisfied with SLI support).

I've found this video very good, it list how much Nvidia tries to hurt the (especially) pc gaming community as a whole by locking down their software so developers don't really use them as much as they could.

Nvidia needs to change

What do you think gaf?
What's your reason to get one card than the other?

 

[R8TEDM3]

SLI support needs to get much better in this day of age, and their GPU prices need to come way the fuck down!

 

[Stevey]

I'd never buy an AMD card, far too many stories of issues and problems.

 

[Kezen]

It's not being a "dick" so much as taking advantage of their hardware. The tessellation example is brought up many times but I never saw a problem with it as long as it could be disabled for those whose hardware could not keep up.
I'm sorry if AMD owners can't benefit from GPU Physx but the reason it was supported in games is because Nvidia are willing to foot the bill, so I'll take that over.....no GPU Physx at all.
The same could be said for many Nvidia tech actually, it's the price to pay for those effects to even make it, developpers are free to develop their own cross-vendor tech.

They perhaps could make their technologies more accessible but I don't blame them for not doing so, it's up to AMD to react and to adapt.

 

[Sarcastico]

nVidia collaborating with many developers is one reason why I buy their shit.

 

[Vic20]

SLI support needs to get much better in this day of age, and their GPU prices need to come way the fuck down!

SLI is not likely to get better as from everything I've read about DX12, it will actually become harder to use it. I've been an Nvidia customer singe their first cards, but I can't wait to go to single GPU as both SLI and CF are simply not reliable enough to be considered a good product solution. fortunately next year's GPUs will be able to handle 4K at a relatively good FPS rate, sans the most demanding games.

 

[IcyStorm]

Part of the reason I buy AMD is so that AMD doesn't die and let Nvidia become complacent and stagnant.

 

[darthbob]

It'd be nice if nvidia wasn't such a domineering force in the enthusiast graphics card industry so as to create better competition between themselves and AMD.

 

[epmode]

SLI isn't worth the headache. Just get a high end card and call it a day.

 

[Rushersauce]

I bought an R9 390 just to help AMD. It has its problems, but's a nice GPU. I know one sale means nothing for many of you, but in the bigger scheme it can help. Or so I think.

 

[VanquishUK]

I bought an R9 390 just to help AMD. It has its problems, but's a nice GPU. I know one sale means nothing for many of you, but in the bigger scheme it can help. Or so I think.

AMD need to help themselves.

 

[Shai-Tan]

PhysX doesn't bother me that much because the effects are typically low resolution, based on very few particles. They are far more ugly than good shader effects would look that are using fake physics e.g. compare water flowing based on PhysX vs various rain effects or water flowing in Bioshock. What bothers me is developers let Nvidia come in and put a bunch of ugly looking effects that sometimes have large performance penalties. That is, it's not as much of a differentiator as some people make it out to be. There are some effects where it's not distractingly ugly like hair or (some) cloth physics but AMD mostly has alternatives for that in games as well. it is shit that Nvidia or AMD can stake out high profile games as a differentiator for effects that should run perfectly fine on one card or another but the ones that developers don't make for themselves and Nvidia puts on top of games tend to be made in poor taste by engineers who have no clue about aesthetics.

Anyhow, none of that nonsense is why I bought a GTX 970. I simply bought it because it was the best price/performance at the time and had better software features for supersampling. AMD has been getting closer in terms of software but for features like their PhysX alternative I think it would be foolish to even consider as a good reason to get one card or another

 

[Smushroomed]

I'm pretty close to selling my second 980ti

I've turned sli off for some games and some like siege are outright broken

 

[becktionary]

I swore off of ATi cards almost a decade ago after having tons of driver headaches. Kept getting blue screens and the best suggestion they could give me was to try replacing everything in my computer. So I jumped ship and never looked back.

I know competition is good for the market but I will not put up with substandard performance and god awful drivers in the name of idealism. Hopefully AMD will stop floundering at every opportunity and help themselves and the GPU enthusiast crowd out.

 

[ISee]

Video is not honest on all fronts. Gamework features like PCSS (Assassins Creed Syndicate), Hairworks (Witcher 3) and Ultra Godrays (Fallout 4) cost a lot of performance on Nvidida Cards too. Often enough to a point where the feature isn't useable even on higher tier cards.
For example I am not willing to turn on Hairworks, TXAA or PCSS in most games on my gtx 980 because the performance cost is too high. And Ultra good rays aren't doable in Fallout 4 (if you aim for 60fps) on a gtx 970...

In general most Nvidia gpu owners do not use gameworks features anyway, because a stable or high frame rate is more important with one (big) exception: HBAO+.

 

[Kezen]

AMD need to help themselves.

And they can, by releasing kick-ass products.

I'm very enthusiastic about both Gameworks and AMD's Gaming Evolved program, even when I'm fully cognizant my 980 will suffer in most AMD sponsored games if compared to its most direct GCN counterpart.
I know the next Tomb Raider is just not going to run as well on my 980 as it will on a 390/390X because naturally this game will be heavily tuned for AMD hardware.

I think that's totally fair, I'm not deluded enough to believe developpers put the exact amount of weight behind both vendors.

 

[R8TEDM3]

SLI isn't worth the headache. Just get a high end card and call it a day.

I got Nvidia's highest end Card, and it wasn't enough...had to get 3 more, although I could've just gotten TRI-SLI but at least now i'm satisfied! Just wish drivers for SLI were better, and if it's true what Vic20 just said, then damn...bye Felicia!!!

Gonna sell everything and just gonna play console games, even though it's gonna suck to play at such a inferior resolution, but at least I won't have to tweak for hrs. every Ubi, Rocksteady, etc etc game that comes out!

 

[Kezen]

I got Nvidia's highest end Card, and it wasn't enough...had to get 3 more, although I could've just gotten TRI-SLI but at least now i'm satisfied! Just wish drivers for SLI were better, and if it's true what Vic20 just said, then damn...bye Felicia!!!

Gonna sell everything and just gonna play console games, even though it's gonna suck to play at such a inferior resolution, but at least I won't have to tweak for hrs. every Ubi, Rocksteady, etc etc game that comes out!

SLI is asking for trouble these days, especially if you go above two.

But surely you already knew that, the most exotic your setup is the higher the chances of running into issues of various nature.

Hence why I have never been tempted by SLI. One card is enough for my purposes anyway.

 

[qa_engineer]

Long time ATi fan here. I am not a big fan of AMD CPUs, but I see their investment in GCN and GPU Compute as very forward thinking. This is one of the main reasons why I will continue to support them. My hopes is that they return to their glory days so that competition drives the price of GPUs on both sides WAY down.

Edit: AMD making their Gameworks library open source and dedicating resources to improving drivers and software releases is very promising. I see this as a shift in the companies priorities and hopefully the developer support starts rolling in.

 

[Shari]

Is not nvidia who has to do shit. They're doing what any company will do.

It's AMD who really needs to step the fuck up with their game and bring they quality levels for hardware AND drivers (and heating, while you're at it duh) and match Nvidia bang for buck so we actually have a real market here instead of "go to nvidia if you want the less problems".

Again, Nvidia practises with software are bad because they're allowed to do this kind of thing, give them a real competition and they'll have to stop being monopolistic jerks.

 

[60EffPeeEss]

I've owned two AMD GPU's so far. 7870 HD and an R9 390X. The only problem I've ever had was on the 390X where GTA5 would crash on start up, but that got patched.

Their version of Shadowplay called Gaming Evolved, though hamstrung by that Raptr rubbish, is actually amazing. I used to use OBS to record but it would have issues with my microphone, so I looked at other solutions and GE solved them. My only remaining niggle with it is that when you alt tab, GE no longer continues recording the game, so when I alt tab to my browser while dead in DOTA2 or CSGO, I lose footage.

I just don't understand peoples annoyances with AMD, but I guess I wasn't around for the "AMD has no drivers" days. I just wish some of Nvidia's more non-competitive practices would end, because it really does drag down performance in some games like The Witcher 3.

It's AMD who really needs to step the fuck up with their game

You do realise they can't do much against Nvidia when their libraries are closed source, pissing all over their performance on games with Gameworks?

 

[Mivey]

Has AMD really such a disadvantage at tesselation effects? Because, if so, I don't see how the onus is on Nvidia to not push one particular thing their cards are better than he competitor.
And really, having exclusive "stuff" is not something Nvidia invented. Anybody does it, and AMD sure as hell would too, if they were in a position were they could spend serious money on R&D.

 

[Kezen]

Has AMD really such a disadvantage at tesselation effects? Because, if so, I don't see how the onus is on Nvidia to not push one particular thing their cards are better than he competitor.

The argument is that Nvidia are only doing it because AMD cards take a bigger hit, in effect tessellation does little to improve IQ in some games like Fallout 4.
I do not agree with Crysis 2's tessellation use however, in some cases like the infamous concrete it appears unneeded but in many other cases it affects the game tangibly.

We can make the case that this is not fair competition, but personnally I value the results more than ethics. Between tessellation impacting AMD cards more vs no tessellation at all I'll side with the former. Essentially I'm okay with X vendor being shafted for the visuals to be included, it could very well work against Nvidia and my position would not evolve.

I don't really see a problem with Nvidia creating a unique selling point as long as they aren't actively trying to hamper performance on competitor cards

According to AMD this is precisely what Nvidia are doing, under elaborate pretence like Gameworks.
Well, I think my position on the subject has not really changed, Gameworks features are by no means hardware agnostic (not to be confused with running on AMD hardware) and it would be better for gamers if they made is so, but we do not live in a perfect world. So I can see where AMD are coming from, they do not see this as a positive thing for the industry at large but all it takes is a better (open source) alternative.

 

[thequickandthedead]

I don't really see a problem with Nvidia creating a unique selling point as long as they aren't actively trying to hamper performance on competitor cards

 

[Dictator93]

OMG

The horribly inaccurate tech report article about Crysis 2 tessellation still is making rounds and influencing narratives and discussion.

Amazing.

 

[Shari]

You do realise they can't do much against Nvidia when their libraries are closed source, pissing all over their performance on games with Gameworks?

AMD perfomance is crap in many games without gameworks. Obviously Nvidia is doing shit by not allowing anyone to access the code to fix possible perfomance problems but the thing is that AMD has went so down that they now control the market enough to be able to do this and get away with it.

If you didnt experience any problems with drivers you only have to go check any performance thread for any AAA game, everytime I come in one of those to discuss performance I end up feeling I've dodged a bullet by not having an AMD gpu.

 

[funkystudent]

Its a shame there isnt a viable alternative to Nviida.


As someone who had a AMD card for a few years I am not touching them again. Too many horrible experiences with driver updates.


The whole "gameworks gimps games for AMD users" thing is way down the list for reasons I would not go back to AMD. My issues with AMD are issues with AMD itself.

 

[Swarna]

Can't watch the video yet but I do agree with the overall point about NV being complete dicks. Why does the 970/980 only come with 4GB? Why don't these cards support freesync? They're dicks.

 

[sirap]

It gets really hot in Malaysia, and I'd love to move to a single setup but unfortunately 4k with all the bells and whistles turned on is impossible without an SLI setup.

 

[MehsterChief]

There are reasons to criticize Nvidia (e.g. pricing) but it's very strange to accuse them because they keep their own technologies (aka selling points) to themselves.

It would be stupid of them to do so.

 

[Zalusithix]

I got Nvidia's highest end Card, and it wasn't enough...had to get 3 more, although I could've just gotten TRI-SLI but at least now i'm satisfied! Just wish drivers for SLI were better, and if it's true what Vic20 just said, then damn...bye Felicia!!!

Gonna sell everything and just gonna play console games, even though it's gonna suck to play at such a inferior resolution, but at least I won't have to tweak for hrs. every Ubi, Rocksteady, etc etc game that comes out!

Or you could just run a single high end card, bypassing all the SLI/Crossfire headaches, and still play games with (much) higher than console settings with virtually no tweaking required. There's a huge middle ground between being able to run at super high resolutions and framerates and running at console levels.

 

[Jams775]

OMG

The horribly inaccurate tech report article about Crysis 2 tessellation still is making rounds and influencing narratives and discussion.

Amazing.

I don't remember hearing about this. What was inaccurate about what the guy in the video said?

 

[Shari]

Why does the 970/980 only come with 4GB? Why don't these cards support freesync? They're dicks.

This is pretty much like asking why a xbone wont support a ds4.

The only reason FreeSync is an open protocol is because AMD knows that they wont get anywhere fighting with propietary software/hardware against nvidia so they are appealing to the conscience of the buyers but, like on this thread, performance and hassle-free solutions prevail over conscience.

If you want to be on the market you gotta compete and the client wont mind how you do it, and he doesnt have to.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

First question prosed in the video; "Why doesn't Nvidia Play nice?"


Because Nvidia effectively dominates the market. There is no incentive for them not to be assholes, because there is nowhere else for the customer to go. That's what most companies do. A companys responsibility is not to be nice or care, it is just to maximize profit.
It is only nice for you to tolerate them enough to buy their shit. If they acted really shitty people would go AMD, but they have been good at keeping it at the line. Just screw people enough for that extra mark-up.


The value of things is determined by what the consumer is willing to pay, not what the consumer feels is a fair price or what the consumer feels about the company. It's why companies like Activision and EA get away repeatedly, decade after decade with this shitty behavior. Buying products as a result of shitty behavior is effectively enabling that behavior.
I say this as a Nvidia/Intel person. Have never tried AMD / Ati. And don't want to. So I say this with great hypocrisy.
Capitalism really goes out the window when realistic competition goes out the window. progress is slowed, prices become steeper and more excessive. It's bad form all around.

 

[JaseC]

SLI isn't worth the headache. Just get a high end card and call it a day.

My pair of 670s served me well over the ~two years I had them, but, yeah, multi-GPU support is too much of a hit-or-miss affair these days for me to justify buying a second 980.

 

[UnrealEck]

Gonna sell everything and just gonna play console games, even though it's gonna suck to play at such a inferior resolution, but at least I won't have to tweak for hrs. every Ubi, Rocksteady, etc etc game that comes out!

You won't have to tweak but you won't be able to anyway. Whatever preset the devs try to run on the console, you're stuck with.

 

[Inspectah_Deck]

So much false information in this thread it's incredible.
All this "AMD has shitty driversupport" nonesense ist getting old and is simply not true in this day and age.
Much twisting of nvidias bad business practices also present, Kind of reminds me of Applefans.
I guess nothing beats good marketing...

 

[Bolivar687]

AMD perfomance is crap in many games without gameworks. Obviously Nvidia is doing shit by not allowing anyone to access the code to fix possible perfomance problems but the thing is that AMD has went so down that they now control the market enough to be able to do this and get away with it.

If you didnt experience any problems with drivers you only have to go check any performance thread for any AAA game, everytime I come in one of those to discuss performance I end up feeling I've dodged a bullet by not having an AMD gpu.

You're making things up.

As bad as Nvidia's closed and proprietary solutions have negatively impacted PC gaming, I'm more troubled at how they've mobilized their fan crusaders, who care so much about the marketing brand war, that they will seek out discussions where they can mislead and distort the facts, regardless of how uninformed they are.

 

[Yudoken]

I got Nvidia's highest end Card, and it wasn't enough...had to get 3 more, although I could've just gotten TRI-SLI but at least now i'm satisfied! Just wish drivers for SLI were better, and if it's true what Vic20 just said, then damn...bye Felicia!!!

Gonna sell everything and just gonna play console games, even though it's gonna suck to play at such a inferior resolution, but at least I won't have to tweak for hrs. every Ubi, Rocksteady, etc etc game that comes out!

That's like totally how it not works.
Even the worst pc ports beats the console version if you have a decent rig.
Yes, that includes Arkham Knight.
I just said that a second card isn't worth it for me.
I just play on a 1080p tv and a single 970 can downsample most games from 1440p with a bit lowered settings on the newest games just fine.
A few games like Titanfall and some older games somehow had problems with SLI which I was not able to fix even with support from Nvidia and various forums but that's not really something you have to worry about.
Also what Nvidia does is not as bad as MS or Sony does with time exclusive stuff.
They're way worse than Nvidia ever was.

Sometimes I really can't believe how uninformed and weird some people here are.

 

[Maintenance]

I always had terrible performance with the AMD/ATI stuff that I bought, so I'm not going back, probably ever.

 

[Shari]

You're making things up.

As bad as Nvidia's closed and proprietary solutions have negatively impacted PC gaming, I'm more troubled at how they've mobilized their fan crusaders, who care so much about the marketing brand war, that they will seek out discussions where they can mislead and distort the facts, regardless of how uninformed they are.

Sure mate. So much brand war that my last GPU was a 7870M (that died on me because overheating). I still have my Alienware M17x R4 running on integrated graphics card to prove it.

Also, you say I'm making things up but you don't point to any part.

Let's take the last AAA title and have a look.

But probably this issues are also Nvidia's or Gameworks fault, even though a special driver was released by the dev to fix the graphical issues.

 

[Caayn]

currently owning two 970s (but soon I will sell one because I'm not really satisfied with SLI support).

Same here. I've just sold my second 980ti due to the lackluster SLI support.

 

[Herne]

I've never been a fan of closed, proprietary tech. I've owned cards from both companies over the years but I find Radeon cards to offer equal or damn near equal for much less then their GeForce counterparts, so I've been going with them since the 4870 (previous card to that was the 8800 GTS). I just upgraded to a 390X a few months ago and I love it, though it's more of a stopgap until GCN2.0 arrives with HBM2 and 14nm.

Open source all the way.

 

[scogoth]

Nvidia is a for profit company as is AMD. If they put in the money to do R&D or buy a company that has they want to make a return. There is nothing wrong with them wanting exclusivity with their IP and working with developers to promote it. If they can't make money doing it they won't and the advantages that they earn in market share show that it is worth it to promote their new technologies. The alternative is neither Nvidia nor AMD develop new technology and nobody wins.

For the people who say "it should all be open source and free to everyone" then go help optimize the OpenGL platform and write your own tesselation and PhysX drivers. There are people who want to make it free but it's not going to come from for profit companies.

 

[LilJoka]

My opinion, Nvidia supports the devs, their tech winds up in games, its not their fault that the tech is propriety.
AMD doesnt support the devs as heavily, their tech winds up in fewer games, even if its open source.
Devs need help implementing either specialty tech into their games.

 

[MrCunningham]

SLI support needs to get much better in this day of age, and their GPU prices need to come way the fuck down!

I think SLi support is going to be coming to an end in the foreseeable future. Especially now that DX12 is going to be supporting multi GPU and cumulative RAM across different video cards. I could only imagine Vulkan following suit as well. I think AMD is eve throwing in the towel for Crossfire because they know this.

 

[WarlockTheWise]

I wonder how many people who boycott nvidia use Intel products.

 

[scogoth]

I wonder how many people who boycott nvidia use Intel products.

I run a Motorola 68000, to hell with all your newfangled x86 CPUs

 

[x3sphere]

I've been supporting AMD since the 5870 but they dropped the ball with Fury. Ended up switching to Nvidia for the 980 Ti and also getting a Gsync monitor so I guess I'll be locked into their ecosystem for awhile.

 

[hodgy100]

I wonder how many people who boycott nvidia use Intel products.

I don't boycott nvidia I just get whatever card is the best price / perf at the time.

But this comparison really doesnt work AMD cpu's just dont have the performance for the same price . whereas AMD's gpu's do.

AMD just seem to loose out of power useage and their FURY lineup is overpriced.