bananafactory
Banned
Intent doesn't matter
It's in very poor taste and should not have been said
It's in very poor taste and should not have been said
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Sonic the Hedgehog's new PR person is incredible
- Thread starter Nachos
- Start date
- Status
Sometimes,
In reality, just sometimes, people's intentions lead to awful outcomes. That's it. I don't understand what people have twisted about this concept. You can 'intend' to do a lot of shit but intentions are wholly dependent on how people interpret them.
Usually, it's best to not act on intentions and assumptions.
I don't want Aaron to lose his job, he seems like a decent dude. But if you're going to make a shitty meme joke when said shitty meme was cultivated by shitty people -- like all memes are these days -- then maybe you should evaluate what you do.
He fucked up. He's holding an L today whether you or the thousands of anime niggas on twitter say otherwise.
God Dayumm
Banned
That tweet is transphobic.
The blame lies squarely and uniquely on otherkin and other tumblr subcultures that appropriated trans vocabulary and victimhood.
The blame lies squarely and uniquely on otherkin and other tumblr subcultures that appropriated trans vocabulary and victimhood.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Jokes aren't meant to adhere to people's delicate sensibilities. They are meant to be funny.
have you ever heard the term "comedy is misery"?
Doctor Ironic
Member
So what, are memes impervious to cultural criticism or something?
It doesn't matter what the intent was - the author is dead and only audience remains. You don't get to decide whether or not you hurt someone. If nobody believes they're the bad guy, how is ANYBODY supposed to ever be wrong?
Yeah God forbid I post my subjective opinions on an Internet forum.
I was hoping you'd be rational enough to understand I was posting an opinion when I talk about something as subjective as "is thing funny." Would it be better if I prefaced everything I say with "in my opinion?"
I love this quote solely because how beautifully tone-deaf, ironic and ignorant it can be.
The problem is I don't think this was said with any sort of malice or ill content towards anyone or anything in fact the reference directly reflects only upon Sonic in this case aka himself. And is how it should be interpreted I think the intention of those wishing to look upon this illfully are the ones with bad intentions and are attempting to over reach bringing an issue or creating one where there should not be one in the first place...
Choosing how you view and respond to a situation can show just as much ill content towards or against something if miss interpreted in the first place.
I'm in the middle of the dining hall and I'm fuckinh dying
This reminds me of this transphobic and incredibly offensive cyanide and happiness short....
....or you know, we could laugh and move on.
....or you know, we could laugh and move on.
Funyarinpa
Member
Okay, take this person X who's highly unfamiliar with the American history and society. He hears the N-word somewhere and uses it in a Twitter post in good humor. Is that the exact same thing as a racist bigot calling black people the N-word due to racist beliefs?
Come. The. Fuck. On.
Claiming intent doesn't matter in this case is (quite literally) saying that Sonic's PR is managed by a transphobe instead of someone who used a meme that offended some people. That's the difference here.
If you're saying intent is irrelevant, then you're saying this PR manager deserves to be treated as if they were transphobic. I think that's a bullshit (and rather alienating) attitude, compared to pointing out their mistake and moving on provided they don't repeat it. I don't think anything done in good humor carries quite the same meaning as said act done deliberately to offend people (kind of like how my friends and I call each other "son of a bitch" at times jokingly, offending nobody compared to how it's a very heavy insult otherwise).
A tangential but similar example is this: Think that you are not DUI and driving in perfect accordance with traffic rules. The car in front of you stops suddenly and you're a fraction of a second too late at braking and you crash into the car at the front, killing someone. You wouldn't be treated as a murderer the same way someone who stabbed a stranger for their wallet would, even though the outcome is death of a person in either case.
Long story short, I can respect that people can demand an apology for an accidentally offensive statement. I can respect the granting of said request by the offender. I can not respect people who get up in arms at the PR account as if they were deliberately spreading bigotry.
Agreed that one should indeed be more sensitive when it comes to issues like this when using a PR account of a franchise or a company.
edit:
1) Assuming that the meme is inherently transphobic,
2) Assuming the PR guy has no ill intent.
So... "Ur only offended because u choose to be, just be not offended instead"
Brilliant.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah I don't think he meant it to offend either but a quick sorry doesn't hurt anyone. We really aren't at a point of acceptance that a good bunch of us can just brush it off since for many transgender individuals this might be something they regularly get in their lives so that might be fueling some passions. Overall, quick apology and back to the jokes everybody's happy.
This is getting blown out of proportion, and I say that as someone who does think he should apologize, while fully believing he meant no ill.
It's like, sure, he screwed up, who hasn't. I bet he'll just apologize and then we'll all move on. The way this is being discussed (and I don't even mean just GAF specifically but other Internet places I've checked) we're all drowning in a glass of water.
It's like, sure, he screwed up, who hasn't. I bet he'll just apologize and then we'll all move on. The way this is being discussed (and I don't even mean just GAF specifically but other Internet places I've checked) we're all drowning in a glass of water.
why not just stop making shitty meme jokes
GetDigitized
Member
It does matter, but if we can't agree on something as simple as that then there's no way either side is going to concede to the other.
You;'re inferring something which I haven't said. That meme doesn't have anything to do with cultural criticism. It's barely related to trans issues.
It wasn't you posting your opinion. It was HOW you posted your opinion, as to demean the other sides view. You don't need to type IMO, but don't look down on the other side simply because they have a different view to you.
.
I wasn't stating that they were wrong, I was pointing out that using definitives doesn't make you any more correct or any more wrong. I can see why you think that, but that's clearly not what I meant.
I don't think the people who are most offended are trans either, some people just need a reason to be angry and vent on the internet.
TBiddy
Member
If everyone was to stop making jokes, good or bad, everytime someone might get offended, the world would be a sad place.
Because that's 99% of what sonic_hedgehog does.
Just put on the twitter page Trigger Warning: Contains DANK MEMES.
More like "Why try to be offended when clearly offense was not intended toward you."
There are also obvious cases where this isn't true also.
Should shut down the entire sonic twitter for that :^)
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Woah, 2 new pages, I wonder wh-
oh god.
oh god.
Try to explain why it isn't without using tu quoque nonsense.
I think it is important to look at intent and context, the Sonic twitter handle has been fun and playful since the start of this thread.
If people are offended by the tweet are they then not operating under assumptions that it was to offend transgendered? It would seem to me that you're attaching way too much value to this tweet which is largely intended to be a harmless regurgitation of yet another internet meme, which not everyone knows the historical origin of every internet meme.
I don't know this Aaron, but going off his work I don't think he would mean to offend anyone, you're asking for this guy to re-access his entire body of work over what should account for at best a minor mistake, which seems excessive.
Did he mess up? I suppose he did. Should he learn from his mistake? Sure. Should he apologize? That's on him. Calling it an "L" just seems like vitriol and comparing me to the "anime niggas on twitter" just seems hostile.
No one says its the same. But its fucked up either way. You teach the person, whether they change or not is up to them. Point still stands, intent dont matter. If you fucked up, you fucked up. Live with it.
Live and learn.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
I guess that is the world we need to live in so no one gets offended anymore.
TBiddy
Member
What does "L" mean?
I think most of the annoyment is directed at those that get offended on behalf of someone else.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Why not get a sense of humor
I genuinely don't think Aaron was being a dick either. He comes off on his twitter as a pretty sensible dude, really.
Acknowledging that he did fuck up isn't the end of the world. Just take it, and don't do it again. That's it. That's literally all the dude has to do. I've said plenty of insensitive jokes in my time in and out of the workplace, and when I'm called out I just apologize like any other normal human being would do.
I can't believe people are against the idea of someone just saying sorry and move on.
Taste is subjective.
still wouldn't have any meme jokes
who the hell follows a twitter for sonic the hedgehog anyway
what weirdos do that
(I like Sonic)
L = Lost, Lose, Losing, Fucked Up, made a mistake. Holding an L means accepting your mistake.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
That could be true but how does that make it okay exactly to the people that are trans?
Making fun of people who think they're the physical incarnation of anime characters (otherkin) is and always will be funny. The Attack Helicopter meme has been great for this.
Are you confusing this meme for making fun of trans people? Because it's not about that. It's about the tumblr kids who think they're actually Kagome and Naruto. I don't know why it would be inappropriate or offensive to make fun of someone who thinks they can go saiyan in real life.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Then stop trying to force yours on other people
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Looking at twitter, it definitely attracted the crowd who aren't great.
Why not be a decent person and understand that a joke could harm people?
TBiddy
Member
Thanks, I didn't know that!
And no, most meme jokes aren't funny. But I thought this was quite clever.
Which is the funniest thing. "People are getting offended when they aren't even the target, so I, the person that's not the target of this anger, am offended."
Then stop trying to force yours on other people
I'm...I'm not? lol, I don't care what you think dude. I don't understand the hostility in the idea of disagreeing with how something is handled. I don't understand why people in the thread are confrontational about other people pointing out that someone made a mistake.
Humans, in reality, have different tastes. These same humans -- the people who are outside, you see -- probably don't like what you consider to be 'ok.'
Look at things from an objective view of the world, and accept why some people have...you know, preferences. If you're incapable of doing that then I don't know what to tell you homie
literally every single joke could be taken as a means of offending someone. do we just ban humour because there's a possibility of someone being offended?
Funyarinpa
Member
I'm just arguing against the lack of a distinction between the two scenarios made by many detractors ITT who say intent doesn't matter.
I infer that people see no distinction between the two situations when they say "intent is irrelevant". I don't see people saying "Sonic PR said something transphobic accidentally", I see people saying "It doesn't matter at all that they were not trying to be offensive".
I'm not seeing the inherent implication that people who claim intent doesn't matter think that there's a distinction between intentional and unintentional bigotry.
If you do realize that there's a difference between this situation and Sonic PR trying to be transphobic, then we agree. However, that does mean intent matters- intent matters, but to a certain extent. If you're saying intent doesn't matter, how can you even distinguish between the two scenarios of Sonic deliberately or accidentally being transphobic?
Doctor Ironic
Member
"I identify as ______" is a phrase that, 90% of the time, ends in male/female/queer/trans and other gender identities. It's a phrase specifically referring to people's statements of gender identity, and early criticisms included "I identify as mayonnaise" and Mike Krahulik's own "I identify as Batman."
Bartholomuse
Member
I got very confused at first, I thought it was actually referring to tails' floating, helicopter ability and the fact that he is kinda neurotic. Never seen that meme up until now, so I didn't know, who's in charge of the account? Is it just one dude?
edit: Nevermind, didn't know it was "THE Sonic the Hedgehog" twitter, thought it general fandom twitter.
edit: Nevermind, didn't know it was "THE Sonic the Hedgehog" twitter, thought it general fandom twitter.
How I feel about this thread right now.
As small a chance either side has on making other people see your point on subjects like this one, feel free to float your view on things even if they've been reiterated a dozen times in the past few pages, but stop being passive aggressive dicks to each other.
In short knock it off.
Vital Tundra
Member
I have to agree. Saw someone say they are their moms diamonds and were upset their mom couldn't accept they were dragon kin or some shit. Was hilarious.
Holy shit lmao no one's asking to ban humor, calm down.
Right, I apologize if my posts came off as such.
MotionBlue
Member
This wasn't news until certain subreddits made it news. Where were the feelings police when Sonic made fun of other people?
The entire Internet would be shut down.
Two people run that account now I think.
Not Old Man Murray!
I wouldn't go as far as to say 'feelings police' but it's perfectly fair to think that yes, there are a group of individuals who don't find things at all humorous. And yeah, those people are sometimes incredibly hyperbolic to the point that their claims come off as like, outrageous!
RIP Sonic Twitter
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