OR and Vive are both 90hz refresh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift#Consumer_version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Vive#Technical_specifications
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30min PSVR technical presentation (Feb.2016)
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
OR and Vive are both 90hz refresh:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oculus_Rift#Consumer_version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Vive#Technical_specifications
My bad, didn't spot that.
Yeah possibly. They will assuredly spend that extra technological value where it maximises their target markets utility. So it might be foveated rendering, or lightfield projection, or wireless, or something else, Cus PC's ain't bound the way PS4 is, its all engineering you see.
Ah true I forgot about that. It's pretty
likely imo since positioning themselves far away from the other two would be beneficial. Adoption is key.
I personally fall into the latter category. I want psvr and vive but of course if I could have decent sitting experiences on pc with psvr I could probably live with that.
Also, how likely is it that Sony will use psvr with ps5 (assuming it's a success)? Unless there is some breakthrough I don't see why they couldn't use it? Even if they update the camera (say, add another one for whole room setups) it's separate from the hmd and box
There is a breakthrough incoming in 2017/2018 which is eye-tracking (capable of tracking saccadic eye movement). The importance of this for VR cannot be understated. It will massively enhance visuals thanks to foveated rendering and it will open up a million doors for game design.
Perhaps, but I don't think they're going to push it very hard considering the drawbacks in quality. Valve for instance has opted out of reprojection/time warp, which has some performance gains with their stencil mesh implementation. Instead, they've recently demonstrated dynamic settings quality adjustments to maintain 90 fps through possible fluctuations. This can currently be observed using the SteamVR Performance Test tool on Steam.
Its what makes me hesitant about jumping in at gen 1 - it feels like the next gen of VR headsets are already coming with what could be significant improvements/features. I can see Sony supporting PSVR1 while it launches PSVR2 (and Move 2) with the PS5 (if not before PS5 turns up dependent on what develops).
Just spitballing I guess - PC VR definitely will move quickly - exciting times
ps3ud0 8)
Thanks!
I see but why would that affect the shape of the distorted image tho? It seems to me it has more to do with the optics than the rendering tech. I'd like more info about this as well.
True. It's definitely going to be a default feature of second gen VR headsets. It will also enhance the sense of presence quite a bit!
PuppetMaster
Member
In the Vision keynote shortly before Richard Marks did this breakout session, Palmer Lucky dropped that occulus had sold 200,000 DK1 &DK2 headsets combined.
I was actually shocked how low that number is. With how much they get talked about I thought way more people had one by now.
I was actually shocked how low that number is. With how much they get talked about I thought way more people had one by now.
Is that an official fact, maybe something you can provide a link to? I can't find any real proof of this, everything pointing in that direction is tied to DK hardware.
If that really is the case in retail hardware, the PSVR has by far the best screen, sharper and faster. Don't know how much separating the halves help the lense configuration though.
Late reply, but I just saw this.
I never said that it was.
Incorrect, the HMD does still update at 120hz even if the source is only 60fps.
This has been stressed many times already. It has been stressed just as much as the PSVR breakout box not doing much additional work, but we still see misinformation about that too.
I never said PCVR doesn't do reprojection. I was merely explaining why it's on by default for PS4 and maybe why it's not standard on PCVR yet.
I never said that it was.
Incorrect, the HMD does still update at 120hz even if the source is only 60fps.
This has been stressed many times already. It has been stressed just as much as the PSVR breakout box not doing much additional work, but we still see misinformation about that too.
Can I have a quote/source on that? Because they've never said that that I know of.
You was actually shocked by two extremely crude non-consumer development kits which was nausea-inducing and often difficult to even get up and running, and with experimental software library that sometimes was broken at every sdk update having sold 200,000 units..? How did you even come to that conclusion?
Oculus/Vive compatibility, and reprojection IS on at 90fps to get last minute rotation but without frame rate increase.
For the Vive it is known/proven.
Oculus straight out refuses to answer the question (but having true RGB oled is not something anyone would hide, especially when the competition is championing it).
Not much lower (1080x1200 vs. 960x1080 + secret sauce), so 25% more, but the difference will be similar to what we see today in non-VR games on PS4 vs. PC.
PS4 is typically "high" PC settings and often with a lower frame rate. If 60->120fps reprojection is as good as they are touting across most games (I've seen it with my own eyes in The Deep - buttery smooth and no artefacts that I could see) then PSVR will be quite comparable to 90fps on PC, but if you put the extra $ into PC you can obviously push better textures/shadows/lighting/AA but you are constrained as to resolution and frame-rate.
So many strange things happening in this thread..
Async timewarp is already a standard in the Oculus SDK for DK1 and DK2..
Now, with an even increased refresh rate on the coming HMDs this puts some serious demands on the GPU hardware/drivers and Windows to unlock finer preemptive granularity. But I think Nvidia already exposed this in their Gameworks VR drivers, no?
Its what makes me hesitant about jumping in at gen 1 - it feels like the next gen of VR headsets are already coming with what could be significant improvements/features. I can see Sony supporting PSVR1 while it launches PSVR2 (and Move 2) with the PS5 (if not before PS5 turns up dependent on what develops).
Just spitballing I guess - PC VR definitely will move quickly - exciting times
ps3ud0 8)
In 2018 I'll have had 2 years worth of entertainment out of the current headsets
The far bigger problem is disocclusion due to parallax movement.
Reprojection is certainly not a panacea.
It's very unlikely that PS5 will support PSVR1. VR hardware development is advancing at a breakneck pace.
Not saying it hasn't for you but I'm a PC and console gamer and on PC I've had numerous driver issues in recent time - like broken updates, requirement to download updates to fix game-specific bugs, requirement to update other software to work with newer drivers (GTK), specific drivers (for a time) to use certain oculus SDK. Has been worse with me with AMD, better with NVIDIA. There will always be issues but it's improving.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
When you look at a virtual girl she will smile back. Characters can make true eye-contact with you (or notice when you're perving). "Don't roll your eyes at me!".
When you look away from a window a silouette slowly appears (and hides again when you look back).
Game designers can record heat-maps based on eye-movements during focus testing, which can help them make better interfaces and level cues.
There is no secret sauce.
PS4 is typically anything from "high" to "low" PC settings depending on the game and individual setting. (Occasionally, lower than low)
No, don't you see, in 2015 Sony invented the technique Carmack gave a presentation about in 2014, and which I believe was actually described by Abrash earlier than that.
Are you sure about that? I would expect them to use frame-packing in HDMI, as is used with 3D video, to send two 1920x1080 images, since that would require very little effort to split to the two screens.
I know that it is available to PC VR HMDs, I just didn't know it was turn on by default for all games. Is that the case? If so, cool then. Something I didn't know, but now do. Thanks!
Great strawman, thank you for your post.
Not enough bandwidth to do that at 120Hz native, plus I think the symmetry screen only updates at 30fps
I'm no VR developer, but I don't think there's much mandatory when it comes to an open platform.. In my mind it wouldn't make much sense to leave ATW off if it's available anyway.
it is actually very likely that it will. This release new version every 2 years wont work for consoles. They are selling things at manufacturing costs (which means that they are not recovering money they invested into it), and building up a userbase so more software can be sold. If they change hardware every two years, it does not make sense.
Plus, unless first generation sells well, there wont be 2nd generation. Game developers wont spend millions developing games for console that end up catering to tiny user base. It just does not work financially.
We already know they will be using same Move controllers they introduced years and years ago. So with PS5, they wont kill their existing PSVR userbase that spent $500 to buy one.
Yeah, that makes sense, I agree. Thanks.
backbreaker65
Banned
eventhough it's been around forever, and wasn't invented by either of these dudes, but we can't let that get in the way of a good spin.
If either you or Durante had taken the time to actually read through the discussion I was having, you wouldn't have needed to build and tear down these elaborate strawmen.
But alas.
Thank goodness bj00rn_ took the time to read and respond.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=188320637#post188320637
ie. More bang for your buck, possibly to do with the lens distortion.
So their secret sauce is rendering at a lower resolution and lower frame rate. Interesting.
They rely on re-projection to "hide" it, but i highly doubt it's going to be as good as actual 90fps and the higher resolution.
Edit: It can be good enough for a lower price point (I would assume ~400$)
vpance
Member
Quality that is still comparable to the others at half the price will be very good.
Games can reduce fidelity and render natively 1080p120. We know of a few titles taking this approach and Marks has hinted at more.
This stuff is more for games shooting for todays top quality graphics in VR. Even the reprojected games don't look terrible but I would have to see for myself to judge image quality and artifacts. But its interesting to note that a few developers have stated often overlooked things like geometry detail can mean more in VR than the quality or fidelity of your shaders and effects.
backbreaker65
Banned
Apologies to you.
Do you mean the same "secret sauce" Valve talked about a year ago?
PSVR is not comparable to Rift or Vive.
Sure it is. Na-nana-naa-nah.
RadicalVelocity
Member
Except they are. We're not talking an order of magnitude difference, as we would be between a galaxy S6 and any of the 3 headsets you mentioned. Whether you're speaking of resolution, framerate, per-pixel gpu resources (recommended spec, which most sane developers will be targeting for the next half year or better), they're within spitting distance (less than 50% drop between Vive/Rift to PSVR, often much closer, or in the case of display refresh rate, the PC headsets are notably inferior). If you single out CPU, you can actually make a point, but you didn't.
Of course, this is the platform zealot mentality that 12% is "MASSIVE," despite the prevalence of comparisons where there are differences of literally 1000%+ (as in console generations, mobile vs dedicated GPUs, etc). And ridiculous beliefs like "PSVR will have to render at early PS3 or PS2 levels" will endure.
SteamyPunk
Member
Games will be able to render only the area of the screen you are looking at at full-res. This means everything will be much more efficient. It will be like doubling, tripling the resolution with no hit to performance.
He asked about new types of gameplay.
There's a video of an 8 year old or something playing her parent's at-home dev kit PSVR, that cartoony fps game, forget the name.... she plays it for a solid 10 minutes or so and has no issues. Device must be light and optics must work for smaller heads. I guess they'll advise that kids be supervised and as usual play in short bursts, but that's the same advice we've had for everything for years.
Sadly idk if much has been done
in this area. Personally using psvr idk if it would fit small heads. You're best bet probably is people using their own dk1 and dk2 and gear vr/cardboard.
There's also the warnings on video games (particularly 3D) for visual development but I never
knew how serious those were
es as
Put it in my veins. The applications for horror in vr (especially with eye tracking) are staggering. Having some silent hill esque creatures always hiding in your peripherals...I'm hoping for a Renaissance with horror movies and games.
And I never thought about the heat maps. That has interesting implications. They could inject that tech into movies too.
Yeah me too. While I'm glad they'll support move I'm still hoping they will come out with a move with an analog stick. I understand fragmenting the market but the experience would be so much better and not all games would require it. It would be like wii motion plus or the circle pad pro and could be marketed similarly.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Quick question: how readable is text while playing VR games?
With the newer headsets, it's perfectly fine.
World War Toons.
This is where the video used to be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m63tRjAbp_k but now it's private :/
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