Wow, does it really bother you that much?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Universal Apps including Rise of the Tomb Raider have limitations on Windows Store
- Thread starter SerTapTap
- Start date
Didn't now Microsoft killed your pet, i'm sorry for that, now I get your hate towards them...
Yes just like every other ms pc gaming thing since the start of time. They all go so well.
Go play all the gfwl 1.0 games that don't work anymore unless you crack them.
I guess they shouldn't have made DX12, 11, etc... nor anything to help game developers either.
So just because you've made mistakes it means that you can't do something right ever again, this time the Xbox division is handling the PC gaming part, and I guess they know what they do, especially guided by Phil Spencer
Trying to using dx12 and the ported games to bludgeon people into accepting windows 10 and the app store is the same shit they pulled with vista and halo 2.
Uh-huh, because I'm sure people who solely get Windows 10 for Quantum Break and other Microsoft exclusives make the majority of the people who get Windows 10.
Do you deny it is the same exact thing they did with Vista and Halo 2? A game which was hacked to run on windows xp within like a day.
Actually I do deny it, since Halo 2 ran on DirectX 9 which ran on XP, not DirectX 10 which was Vista and up.
If Quantum Break is released supporting only DirectX 12, it will only run on Windows 10.
As for sticking with Windows 7, it's really time to just let it go. 8, had a lot of under the hood improvements which 10 built on. If you want to game with modern hardware with all of the new graphical features move on. Take the free upgrade.
Ah yes, the magical port code! Despite there yet to be a actual UWA APP/game that actually runs on both platforms! Despite Quantum Break having separate versions!
Let's be clear: as of yet, no, they don't share "the same code" more than Win32 programs do. And it's unlikely there will ever be a major game that is released as a UWA on Xbox One, so it's just a dumb statement altogether.
Let's be clear
Xbox One versions of games are not UWA apps
Ports to PC still need to be made all the same. Putting the method of delivery as a UWA app doesn't make the porting magically easier. That's not how shit works.
Then you are ignorant of history. There is zero reason they couldn't offer a dx11 version of the games other than trying to strong arm the market.
I'm saying the market has plenty of reasons to get Windows 10, they don't need to be strong-armed. Outside of a minority who like to stick with XP/7, 10 is actually a great OS, which is shown by its adoption rate.
Zero?
Does it not take any work/budget to make a DX11 version? Or could they just run it through a "converter" of sorts?
Thanks for letting me know how porting works and informing me how UWA development works. /s
Wow. You must really think MS is making UWA for no reason. But you can make your assumptions.
Oh yes, Xbox One development will now be exclusively UWA!
(no it won't)
For the love of god, stop parroting that shit until MS actually publishes a game as a UWA that is actually a UWA for both PC/Xbox, not different versions altogether and then claim that it's some kind of magic porting ability.
That's not what you asked. You asked if it was a similar situation as Halo 2 which ran on XP without any modifications other than bypassing the installer.
Creating a DirectX 11 version of any DirectX 12 game could be possible, but you won't be running those games on Windows 7 or 8 without the developer releasing a new binary.
LukasTaves
Member
Of course xbone games aren't uwa yet. These games were in development for years, the games releasing now on the store requires an SDK released last november.
It's completely unreasonable to expect them to be ported to uwa's so late in development, specially because there's a huge chance it wasn't even finished on the xbone side considering it was just finished on the desktop.
Good god, even UWA PC app is different than UWA Xbox app, there will always be differences between the two. PC development and Xbox development has always been close, moving towards uwa is just another step to make it closer. XBO will have certain parts of its system that is specialized (hence the 3 OSes where one is for mainly AAA dev). So to say wait and see before making my proclamation is no different than you saying that they will never be the "magical porting" at least mine has a precedent where that's what they already have done with PC and mobile and now it's Xbox turn (shit, HoloLens runs UWA right now).
Luckily, there's a product available which lets you avoid their PC offerings and still play their games.
LordRaptor
Member
Those are benefits for Xbox One owners, not for PC gamers.
And there certainly isn't a subset that do both. No way.
LordRaptor
Member
Of course there is, but it is highly dishonest to claim that those are universal benefits and that it is "ridiculous" to state otherwise.
dr_rus
Member
RotTR is UWA. Is it able to run on Xbox One?
There are games coming to PC that otherwise wouldn't be. How is that bit a universal benefit?
This situation will likely have no effect at all to those who don't want it. If you are simply anti-MS and don't think they should leverage their IP into profit (which is the goal of any company that owns IP) then you can
just continue to buy games the way you normally do. You'll miss out on MS games, but then again, you weren't going to be playing them anyway.
Signor Rossi
Banned
Oh they are making it for a reason. Its obvious really. They are making UWA to artificially bind "apps" to their store and OS.
Just wait until MS scraps their current shop because it failed like GFWL and has lost it's support because MS gave up on their phones and comes out with their new and better system. Have fun re buying your stuff on the next thing Microsoft thinks will succeed.
LordRaptor
Member
Your consistent replies to me in this topic dismissing my concerns by implying I have an agenda are getting very tiresome, and I have been extremely patient in fully explaining what my and others concerns with UWA are.
You are a little late, MS has already given up on their phones, lol.
GhostTrick
Banned
Truth to be told, I doubt the Windows Store is going to succeed in any of it. It's not about being 'anti-MS", it's just about having short term memory, because GFWL was shut down 2 years ago. And download have been stopped this month.
So, when the very same healthy and wealthy company comes back, with a similar service but worse, with no backup of their previous mistakes, there's no chance to give them.
UWA, GFWL, Store being closed, Microsoft lack of trust... every of this can't be fixed. It can't. At this point, every sane consumer should call them on that. Because consumer look for what is best to them.
It's not a universal benefit because you don't fucking need to publish it as a UWA to put it on PC..
As it stands, there's no real benefits, except if you want to play Quantum Break on a Windows Phone in 20 years :lol:
Yep. Why the fuck would someone trust MS when they have yet to fix the GFWL situation and let people download their legally bought games when they are a damn multi-billion dollar company is beyond me.
Really? So my awesome Lumia 950XL is just a fake, and the weekly updates of Windows 10 mobile preview is just me dreaming, also the new third parties Windows 10 phones coming this year from VAIO, HTC, Acer and HP must be just toys...
It's true that market share of Windows Phone isn't comparable to Android or IOS(also because there are way less WP devices), but that doesn't mean it's dead, or that would mean that Apple Mac is dead too
They have resigned themselves to a distance 3rd place(1% or 2% marketshare). They will throw some bones every now and then, but don't expect much support. You are getting updates(fixes for a broke ass Win10Mobile) because they might as well since the OS's are tied now and they might as well keep it around. That HP device is not a consumer phone anyway. What HTC phone is coming this year for WM? The 950, while a great device, is over priced for the market(MS wants to make a little money and not lose money on each device sold, lol) and was sent to die in the marketplace.
btw, I also own a WP.
Not true. The HP Elite was the most interesting phone in quite sometime.
HP are aimed to companies thanks to their continuum and productive stuff, but any consumer can buy those, and Microsoft is still working hard on Windows 10 mobile, as i said they're releasing updates every week in front of the full version of Windows 10 which should be released sooner, they're hardly gonna get close to IOS or Android, but they won't give up, there is not need to lead in the market as long as you have even your niche of market, i'm sure Microsoft will focus on release 2 flagship phones, likely the Surface Phones, and 2 Lumia low/mid end phones every year, plus the third parties. They need to be into the mobile phone business as their plan of unify Windows 10
Auto-Reply
Member
I'm a windows phone user myself and I'm actually quite happy with the phone. But not because of the app situation on it, there is tons of stuff not availabe for it you will only get on Android and iOS. The last thing was when Bethesda announced Fallout4 their free Fallout Shelter phone game, I was like "Nice... oh... only on Android and iOS"
I'm simplistic when it comes to smart phones though, I don't really use them beyond browsing the internet on commute and texting friends, sometimes snap a picture. Don't really play games on it or do other stuff.
Everyone who is looking for a smartphone and wanting to do more than I'm doing, I would advice to stay far away from windows phones. Similar to the situation now with the Windows 10 store, you don't have any standards and just want to play the games in whatever state they come, go right ahead. You want more, stay far away!
I'm simplistic when it comes to smart phones though, I don't really use them beyond browsing the internet on commute and texting friends, sometimes snap a picture. Don't really play games on it or do other stuff.
Everyone who is looking for a smartphone and wanting to do more than I'm doing, I would advice to stay far away from windows phones. Similar to the situation now with the Windows 10 store, you don't have any standards and just want to play the games in whatever state they come, go right ahead. You want more, stay far away!
dampflokfreund
Banned
No exclusive fullscreen mode? That means it will perform like shit on laptops with optimus.
No thanks.
No thanks.
Based on what Satya said and what makes the most sense for them is to leverage their continuum paradigm o get back in the phone OS war but I don't think they are gonna try to become the next iPhone or anything like that, they proabably want to be the next Android, basiclly have OEMs make phones (and give them a value for it to customers, like the HP Elite x3) for businesses at first before going back into the mainstream market. It seems like a smart play if it can work. I think Continuum is the only way they could make ish work for their phone OS. A surface phone that can be your phone (duh), laptop, desktop, and tablet would be intriguing. Obviously there's that app issue that's the main reason for MS' failure in the market.
That's why they are trying to make this universal thing so they can get developers to make apps and the only way to do that is to have people, hence why they gave Windows 10 away for the first year (over 200 million people active on it). That's also why they are putting more 1st party games on the store. Get engangement to the store so that they can tell developers how many people go to the store and look and possibly buy stuff (hardest part for a store is getting people to go in it...a la Malls). So release good apps (AAA titles) on the store to get that engangement and gaming is the number one thing people buy on app stores. This why some people in these threads say it's much bigger than just a GFWL clone.
Xbox succeeding helps the whole Windows ecosystem (one of the three big products as stated from Satya, Office and Azure are the others). If gaming can't take off for Windows store, it will have a cascading effect on their other products unless they can bring another device (hololens) that sparks the interest and build from there. But Xbox and Windows are very intertwined in what they need to succeed in the near term (where Hololens is a longer term play for consumers). If xbox succeeds, then they can get app developers to use their store to release games and apps on their platform, and since it's universal, it's easier to port their code to the phone with minimal work, then their phone os business will have their biggest issue "solved".
MS is betting the farm on the success of Windows 10, and everything around it to help it become that, and that includes Xbox.
Damn, I didn't mean to type that much.
EDIT: I agree with your advice Auto-Reply. I do the same when people ask me about phones.
I understand what your concerns are. But they are largely based on how MS handled what was primarily a PC gaming platform, several years.
In this case Microsofts UWA initiative is much broader in scope, and frankly, having a hand in PC gaming is a tiny component of their overall aims. So to assume this is a attempt at a hostile takeover of the PC gaming industry is to completely ignore what MS' goals actually are.
Obviously, they want to make more money. But they want to do it buy giving developers a way to access more customers across more devices, which in turn, gets their customers more software to use, including gaming software.
MS isn't going to scrap their store after giving away 200million+ free copies of there OS in hopes that sales in the store will replace that revenue. you too think this is about gaming. But the scope is much larger.
same as above.. The store isn't closing. And it isn't just about games.
I get the mistrust. But to label this a GFWL, like everyone else, is to miss the point.
I went from WP, Iphone 6 plus, and now Android and I really miss WP. If my work offered it I'd go back. I love that damn OS.
Well RoTR itself certainly can... I have no idea what the app container on the XB1 version looks like behind the scenes... but it's certainly not a case of a game only a PC can run, because not only a PC does.
The thing here is, we'd likely never know that an XB1 release for a full retail game is a UWA, as it's hardly something you'd put on a box. We know on PC because they tell us these things in order to clearly differentiate the apps from standard Win32 apps. MS constantly says however that UWAs are making the porting of games between the platforms easier, and there are a lot of upcoming games being produced for both platforms concurrently with the Windows 10 version being confirmed as a UWA, so I don't really understand the logic in suggesting that MS is going to extreme lengths to lie about the porting benefits (typically at developer focused conferences no less), when there'd be very little benefit in doing so.
The main point however being that there are no games so far as UWAs that are logically out of scope for an Xbox One, so "games that can be run only on PC" simply isn't a use case that applies to anything right now. You can have a super high end game like RoTR or Fable Legends, but it'll always be viable as an Xbox One game as well (as long as this gen lasts at least). At this point the onus of proof would really be to show that an Xbox One can't (and definitely doesn't) run code that resembles the Windows 10 version of the same game. Because in absence of that, MS is basically the best source of the benefits
LordRaptor
Member
Yes, their strategy is clear.
However, the reason why many PC users (both producers and consumers) are wary of it is that instead of going the route that people would want and that would probably gain them marketshare - making all Windows Phones run all windows programs, which immediately solves any 'lack of apps' issues - they are again following their Apple-envy by trying to push developers into a walled garden because thats how Apple does it.
It is a flawed strategy because it does not offer enough enticement to people already in someone elses walled garden, and it alienates those who do not want a walled garden at all.
But again, nobody has described any benefits to PC gamers that are not the same benefits that GFWL had. Benefits to people who don't have an Xbox One or have any interest in MS making as much money as they possibly can.
No .exe and no exclusive full screen are huge offenders. Anyone making apologies or saying "stop whining" are shills and should honestly stfu I feel.
Not being able to properly use Steam BPM or my steam controller is ridiculous. Not everyone is tethered to a desk with a mouse and keyboard desktop setup.
Not being able to properly use Steam BPM or my steam controller is ridiculous. Not everyone is tethered to a desk with a mouse and keyboard desktop setup.
To those people, who don't want to play MS games, or finds it objectionable that MS doesnt want to line the pockets of another entity or enhance a 3rd parties marketplace in order to distribute their own IP, than there is no benefit, but there is also no negative.
These people can continue to get apps and games in the exact same manner they always have.
To suggest with certainty that MS wants to erase any and all alternative methods of app distribution, based on a failed attempt at a PC gaming platform, whilst ignoring the difference in scope of these two programs AND MS' recent and current actions across their entire company just doesn't make sense.
I think everyone agrees the limitations imposed by these are huge offenders though... So...
GhostTrick
Banned
What makes you think the store won't be closing ? What if the market change ? Heck, do we even know how they handle removed downloads ? Will we be able to redownload games removed from the store ?
It's not GFWL, it's worse. What's with all the apologism ? Multi billion company retired its old service, is launching a new one two years later without getting the situation fix, and we should all smile and say "mistake happens !
" ?At this point, I understand why people don't want to buy on the Windows Store, considering the one who bought on Steam their GFWL games can still play and download them while those who trust Microsoft with the store can't anymore. I understand why people wants to buy these games on a reliable store/service.
Because Microsoft sure isn't. I'm tired of people calling others with an agenda when they don't trust MS on their service. Yes, I have an agenda. It's called a consumer agenda. I'm pro-consumer, and I don't accept that multi billion companies kill services and launch same one without bringing solutions to their past mistakes.
LordRaptor
Member
If distributing software through third party vendors (as has always been the case) is so objectionable to MS, then you have to wonder why MS developed software such as Visio, Visual Studio or non-mobile Office isn't only available as UWAs through the Windows 10 Store.
e: the real answer is that the Xbox division wouldn't dare to try and impose the limitations of UWA on successful divisions.
A cynic might say that the reason high performance software that by its nature is a poor fit for UWAs is being only distributed as UWAs by the Xbox team, is that if a high profile game release sold substantially better on Steam than on the Xbox One there would be more serious questions asked internally about the point of the Xbox team having control over gaming than are already being asked.
I am fully aware of what their current goals are with Window Mobile and Windoes 10. Continuum has marginal use at this point and heck the main draw of the HP is to basically stream all the programs businesses might actually need to use.
The problem they had with Win8 and what they will continue to have with universal apps is that the apps that matter on mobile are not the apps that matter on desktop and certainly not on Xbox. So the idea of the additional userbase of Win10 driving development that might help Windows Mobile is a bit dubious. Games that would be developed for Win10 and Bone won't have much crossover appeal either. Mobile games aren't great on TVs in general, which is something the AppleTV has also had to deal with.
I just dont see any of this stuff being a boost to Windows Mobile. I've been a big supporter of WP, got in at the ground floor, lol. Still use one now(1020 was godly before I dropped it on some bathroom tile). They made the right choice to stick around for fans of the platform and possible opportunities in the future to make a move.
Oh and as long as the Snapchat CEO hates MS, WM is doomed as no one under 18 will want that device, lol.
I don't think that distributing through 3rd party is objectionable to them...they do it all the time. It's just that distributing through 1st party means is preferable, provided one has the infrastructure and audience to make it worthwhile.
I don't think I have to explain the benefits of cutting out middle men...
Edit:
Wait are you saying that the Xbox division is behind UWA implimentations, and the technical limitations are by design as opposed to it being due to the tech being in its infancy? I don't know how to respond to that silliness. Hopefully I'm just misunderstanding you.
If a cynic thinks that everyone at MS isn't fully aware that their games would sell more copies on steam. Then that cynic is an idiot. That cynic needs to realize that the UWA initiative represents a long term investment into the Win10 platform as a whole. They are willing to forgo potential revenues from Steam, in exchange for the opportunity to showcase the the content in their own marketplace. That's all this is about. Revenue from AAA PC games sales is a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue they hope to bring in in the coming years-decades from the Win10 store as a whole .
LordRaptor
Member
Again; cui bono?
As an MS shareholder, yes, I can definitely see the benefit to being the sole vendor of a product.
As a consumer, no, I cannot see benefit in eliminating vendor competition.
How is MS eliminating competition?
Does the Steam store cease to exist simply because MS is selling a couple games in their own store?
Are customers losing their ability to patronize more than one store at a time?
Do you think Valve would sell half-life 3 on Origin? Didnt valve handcuff Half-life 2 to steam for similar reasons?
Is tesla not competing with Lexus because they sell their cars at tesla store instead of dealerships.
Is Netflix not competing with Hulu because they both create and distribute their own exclusive content?
The idea that a first party selling their own shit, is "eliminating competition" makes no sense whatsoever... NONE. customers can still pick and choose either, neither, or both...
As to cui Bono, we've talked about that. If your a customer who enjoys the idea of a unified experience across all your devices you benefit. If you are cross buying you benefit. If you want to play Xbox games, but on your PC you benefit. If your a developer looking for a low resistance way to reach customers on multiple devices, you benefit. If you're a Windows customer and you want your platform of choice to attract more software, you benefit.
If you are interested in none of that, you carry on as usual
Dinky Dino
Member
If that was the case their solitaire and mobile like games would suffice to attract all those millions of people no which would leave them satisfied? Why would they bother with the "Core" pc stuff and risk alienating their xbox fans since the tiny portion wouldn't affect their store that much as you say? You don't really need the store for other stuff people have always bought and used those programs on their own like office but I guess people call them apps now.
The xbone partly failed to pick up much steam when their first e3 presentation was less about the core games are more about tv, kinect, sports, apps and all the "cool things" you could do people didn't care about. Then MS and phil turned around and started saying they made a mistake ignoring the core gamers on the xbox as well as windows as a gaming market. GFWL failed for good reason and then ms left because they couldn't profit off pc as much as they wanted too with a live fee. Then tried the non core gamer approach with the "all in one" xbox and failed losing to sony who made a better presentation. The core matters more than you think because it's the base that will likely serve to attract more people.
If out the gates you have people against the closed nature of the windows 10 that bad pr will lead to a low number of people using it on windows and going back to steam, gog, uplay, origins whatever. Locking them out of that profit and potentially cause more people to shy away from windows as a whole. If they play their cards right and work on those limitations, you now have a bunch of core pc users coming in and buying your games as well as spreading news on how well it's improved.
You mention that if they release something like halo people would come. You are right even with the limitations you will get some people but these guys will either wait for a sale and buy that one game and never use the store for anything else. Or hold out for improvements. Remember, gears of wars 1 was BIG at the time and it wasn't enough to save GFWL with the already negative pr out of the gate. MS, like steam can put other games on their platform and get a cut like steam does but who would care when steam gives you the other goodies and ms just restricts it?
In any case MS could really reel in some cash and positive pr from everyone on pc if they address those issues. They'd be stupid not to.
Similar threads
- Poll