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[Melon Husk]

So, had not realized until the other day that the Vive has no integrated audio.


What is everyone using for an audio solution? I have Turtle Beach XP Sevens that are pretty great, but I worry about cord length when using roomscale....

Vive has passthrough for audio, 1ft cable will suffice.

There's a clever "hack" in which you use a splitter cable to feed audio via FM-transmitter to a subwoofer (connected to an amplifier) to get that deep bass headphones can't deliver. I might actually go with PortaPros too cos they're so light.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

It also looks like the Oculus Touch controllers have been quietly pushed back to 'H2' 2016 now.......damn! Bit of a boon for the Vive anyhow.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

So I have a bit of a conundrum. I'd like to use headphones for proper 3D audio, but I also want to use my chair's bass shaker. Windows 10 doesn't natively allow simultaneous audio output to multiple device. Anybody know a solution for this?

 

[Fret]

Not really. It's different technology, but it's not significantly less accurate, and allows for room-scale in exactly the same maximum size as Vive. Palmer Luckey even showed off a layout where he was playing around with it. The difference is on Oculus you need a really long USB cable to move one of the cameras to the opposite corner of the room, and it doesn't have the useful built-in camera on the headset.

Lighthouse has big advantages compared with what Oculus has at the moment, which is all that matters currently, that may change in 6 months when they show off Touch

 

[ashecitism]

Yea I just saw your edit. I suppose the biggest differences are the CV1 require a higher resolution and framerate than the DK2. Besides that, the tracking is roughly the same though the CV1 has more possible points for the constellation tracking including on the back of the head in the strap.

Anyways, we're just over a week away from the games showcase Oculus is having at GDC and we're 24 days out from people receiving their Rifts so that's exciting.

Do we know if Valve or HTC will have a presence at GDC?



Well there's my answer! Awesome, GDC should be a good one this year.

adding to that

GDC – Developer Event

Mar. 14-15 San Francisco, CA

http://htcvr.com/us/

 

[Sky Chief]

Does the Oculus SDK 1.0 support the DK2? I know they've only rolled the 1.0 version of the SDK out to devs who have promised a game on March 28th so we haven't really seen much of what was added to that yet.

Yeah I just found a tweet where they've said it does, so I should be good to go. There aren't any feature breaking things missing off the dk2 so I should be good to go on any Rift exclusives.
If not, then oh well, but its nice to think.

I just saw a dev the other day who is bringing their game to the Oculus Store saying that their game will not run on the DK2. Don't remember what dev and what game but just because the DK2 can use the SDK doesn't mean that you can play all Oculus Store games on it.

 

[Akronis]

So, had not realized until the other day that the Vive has no integrated audio.


What is everyone using for an audio solution? I have Turtle Beach XP Sevens that are pretty great, but I worry about cord length when using roomscale....

External amp and DAC with either HD 700s for soundstage or Fostex TH-X00s for sound isolation running through the SBX DSP.

So I have a bit of a conundrum. I'd like to use headphones for proper 3D audio, but I also want to use my chair's bass shaker. Windows 10 doesn't natively allow simultaneous audio output to multiple device. Anybody know a solution for this?

nvm, misunderstood. You want 1 audio output to 2 devices. You'd have to get an audio receiver to do this I believe.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

nvm, misunderstood. You want 1 audio output to 2 devices. You'd have to get an audio receiver to do this I believe.

Correct. I do use a receiver, but that doesn't have a USB out, and I don't think it'd do multiple outputs either.

I think I can use software to force my computer to output to multiple devices. We'll see.

 

[asker]

Correct. I do use a receiver, but that doesn't have a USB out, and I don't think it'd do multiple outputs either.

I think I can use software to force my computer to output to multiple devices. We'll see.

Yes you can achieve this with something commonly called "virtual audio cable". There are a couple of software solutions that do this. Here is one that works fine. These might introduce a slight audio delay but with a bit of tweaking it can be minimized.

Speaking of sound for the Vive, would there be any benefit in plugging in a wireless headset into my external sound card vs. just plugging in corded headphones into the Vive's audio jack? With corded headphones I get noticably deeper and better audio from my external card but I don't know if that applies with wireless phones.

 

[Monger]

Correct. I do use a receiver, but that doesn't have a USB out, and I don't think it'd do multiple outputs either.

I think I can use software to force my computer to output to multiple devices. We'll see.

Report back if you find something that works. I have audio out through hdmi to my receiver and optical out to my A50s through an optical switch and my pc is the only device without simultaneous outputs. I don't use the headphones a lot but it's a pain if I want to switch in the middle of a game.

Apparently if it's different output devices you can make it work but I haven't tried to mess with it yet.

 

[ashecitism]

http://blog.htcvive.com/us/2016/03/vive-shipping-price-explained/

We realize there have been some discrepancies around shipping costs for the Vive and wanted to clarify the situation and what we intend to do about it. A small percentage of individuals received shipping estimates based on our smartphone shipping rate card as pre-orders began. Once the error was identified, the shipping costs were corrected to reflect the weight/size estimate provided by our shipping partners. In light of this error we will honor the lower quoted shipping price for those affected.

Additionally, there are significant shipping variances from region to region that are based on the shipping options available in those markets. In some markets, “ground shipping” is offered and is the least expensive way to ship. In other markets, “express shipping” is the only option and this is where we are seeing the higher shipping costs. We are continuing to investigate shipping options in these markets.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Yes you can achieve this with something commonly called "virtual audio cable". There are a couple of software solutions that do this. Here is one that works fine. These might introduce a slight audio delay but with a bit of tweaking it can be minimized.

Hmm. I've used virtual audio cable in the past, but for a different reason. I'll look into it. The lighter the solution the better.

Report back if you find something that works. I have audio out through hdmi to my receiver and optical out to my A50s through an optical switch and my pc is the only device without simultaneous outputs. I don't use the headphones a lot but it's a pain if I want to switch in the middle of a game.

Apparently if it's different output devices you can make it work but I haven't tried to mess with it yet.

I'll look into it this evening and post in here.

The next hurdle I'll have is that I'll only want the bass shaker to be functioning, as opposed to my full 5.1 surround. One thing at a time, though!

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Ya Im in the same boat as you as I never gotten motion sick/sea sick etc. so I'm pretty sure I wouldnt get motion sickness from games that werent made with VR in mind, but we'll see.

How many non-VR native games are available for VR? Is it only Doom 3 and Elder Scrolls?

The reason it makes some sick is because the VR headset tells your brain you are running while your body is still.

His is why many games have you either teleporting, or in cockpit view.


However this doesn't affect everyone, and some(many) people are able to play these games with no motion sickness at all.


Though I can't be 100% certain, I have been blessed my not getting motion sickness, sea sickness, hangovers, headaches, etc that hit others when experiencing the same things. This gives me some relative confidence that it won't make me sick.


Also, certain games are being developed as VR remakes/ports (Ethan carter for example) that use standard FPS like controls and viewpoint. As well as many indie games built for and played in VR with the same type of view/control. And many have said playing games like Doom 3, even on non consumer versions of the rift, is an amazing experience. I have also seen games like Brutal Doom, Alien Isolation, Metroid Prime, Half-Life, etc played in VR with positive impressions all around and no mention of motion sickness.

But I guess we will see.

I too had never experienced motion sickness...

Until I played Half Life 2 in VR.
It can happen to you.

 

[Akronis]

Yes you can achieve this with something commonly called "virtual audio cable". There are a couple of software solutions that do this. Here is one that works fine. These might introduce a slight audio delay but with a bit of tweaking it can be minimized.

Speaking of sound for the Vive, would there be any benefit in plugging in a wireless headset into my external sound card vs. just plugging in corded headphones into the Vive's audio jack? With corded headphones I get noticably deeper and better audio from my external card but I don't know if that applies with wireless phones.

I didn't think Virtual Audio Cable could split audio between devices, only combine them.

 

[asker]

I didn't think Virtual Audio Cable could split audio between devices, only combine them.

All virtual audio cables I've tried could double the audio to two or more devices. For example the one I linked.

 

[Akronis]

All virtual audio cables I've tried could double the audio to two or more devices. For example the one I linked.

Wow, must've never stumbled on that functionality. I was originally going to point him to VAC, but only thought it could combine.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Yeah I'd used virtual audio cable software to combine in the past to combine audio. I didn't realize it could be used in this way.

 

[Bboy AJ]

I canceled my Rift since I preordered a Vive. But I only have a GTX 770. I could upgrade but Pascal pls. Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

Not a chance in hell.

 

[kinggroin]

I canceled my Rift since I preordered a Vive. But I only have a GTX 770. I could upgrade but Pascal pls. Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

You're already ded

 

[mrklaw]

I canceled my Rift since I preordered a Vive. But I only have a GTX 770. I could upgrade but Pascal pls. Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

Would it make you feel better if you'd be waiting at least 12 months for a 1080ti (the one you really want)? Then you could justify buying a 970/989ti/390x now and then sell it in a year

 

[Soi-Fong]

The breakout box doesn't do what you think it does. It processes the 3D audio and it unwraps the video to allow it to be sent to a TV. That is it and Sony has said that a thousand times now.

Yeah.. As a dev, this is really annoying to hear. The PS4 isn't as weak as what some people are thinking.

They seem to not get the benefits of a closed system.

 

[Compsiox]

I canceled my Rift since I preordered a Vive. But I only have a GTX 770. I could upgrade but Pascal pls. Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

980ti. do it

 

[Nzyme32]

Hmm GDC is going to be interesting

 

[Bboy AJ]

I'll trade someone a PS4 and BNIB Xbox One for a 980ti.

 

[kinggroin]

I'll trade someone a PS4 and BNIB Xbox One for a 980ti.

Not bad.


Got rid of my bone and 3DS for this reason

 

[rje]

Budget Cuts looks like so much fun, shame it's not a launch title!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwtEw2ggPnA

 

[Dr.Acula]

I canceled my Rift since I preordered a Vive. But I only have a GTX 770. I could upgrade but Pascal pls. Someone help me feel better and say the 1080 will come out before the Vive.

I'd say wait a bit. You won't be able to play Elite at a satisfactory level, but stuff like Surgeon Simulator should run a peach.

 

[Onemic]

Not a chance in hell.

How about Polaris? Pls.

The mobile cards are releasing in April

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

UPDATE regarding my multiple devices output quandary from earlier today.

My integrated audio is Realtek. Realtek HD audio drivers comes with a virtual recording device called Stereo Mix that is disabled by default. Enabling it allows me to have my computer repeat my default device's audio to another device. The only issue is that this seems to introduce about 300-400 milliseconds of latency to the secondary device (in this case, my surround sound and bass shaker by extension). That's kind of a lot of latency.

I'm going to try one of the virtual audio cable deals to see if it handles the latency better.

UPDATE 2:

My Sound Blaster card had the same feature, called "What U Hear", which accomplishes the same task with near-imperceptible latency. Issue resolved!

 

[Durante]

So, had not realized until the other day that the Vive has no integrated audio.


What is everyone using for an audio solution? I have Turtle Beach XP Sevens that are pretty great, but I worry about cord length when using roomscale....

I'll use my trusty Audio Technica ATH-AD700. With the headphone plug on the HMD, I'm actually more worried about the cable being too long, I probably have to stash it somehow.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I'll use my trusty Audio Technica ATH-AD700. With the headphone plug on the HMD, I'm actually more worried about the cable being too long, I probably have to stash it somehow.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001E1Y5O6/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Mine came with one and it's perfect.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Yeah, it's a PC. I use mine solely to game and a Mac for typical PC use. I don't see your issue. It just sounds like fear mongering. Windows is on my gaming PC, sure, but it auto boots into Steam big picture mode.

 

[jabberwocker]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

So your asking for a steambox with Vive ?

 

[BlackBanditSho]

So your asking for a steambox with Vive ?

Cool. So i can treat the steambox like a console? If that's the case, that's exactly what I want.

Which steam machine meets the requirements, or do they all? Or is it the most expensive version?

EDIT - After doing some digging, apparently Steam Machines are too slow for VR.

http://vrfocus.com/archives/17736/htc-allegedly-suggests-steam-machines-too-slow-for-vr/

Ugh.

 

[jabberwocker]

Any thing with a 970 or a r290 or above will work

 

[Dreamwriter]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

What you need to do is get one of the Oculus-Ready PCs, the Vive has the same specs. Then set it up to launch into SteamVR by default, so you don't have to deal with the OS. Heck, I think if you get the Oculus-Ready Alienware Alpha, it comes with its own Windows overlay that can be controlled by gamepad, so you don't have to use Windows for normal Windows things.

 

[Compsiox]

Cool. So i can treat the steambox like a console? If that's the case, that's exactly what I want.

Which steam machine meets the requirements, or do they all? Or is it the most expensive version?

EDIT - After doing some digging, apparently Steam Machines are too slow for VR.

http://vrfocus.com/archives/17736/htc-allegedly-suggests-steam-machines-too-slow-for-vr/

Ugh.

They're linux anyway.

 

[Cartman86]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

Not possible. No matter what you do if games are developed for Windows you will always at some point see the OS or have a game that just doesn't like your special configuration of hardware and crashes to it. I mean you can still just have Steam Big Picture set as an icon that you can easily select to launch it, and have it default start on boot etc. It's still a Windows PC though and dollars to donuts no matter what your wonderful browsing of Steam in the headset experience will come to crashing halt at some point. If you care about high-end VR it's your only bet. I would suck it up. It's still better than it was 10 years ago.

 

[Zaptruder]

I know multiple engines, and Nvidia Gameworks, are rolling out VR SLI support. I read that the issue is that using SLI changes how the game is rendered. If devs are trying to get the best looking experience at a consistent framerate, delving into SLI means they'd have to plan out multiple ways to render their game.

I think at this point most games are far enough along that going back to add SLI support would cause delays, and a lot of devs are trying to target a certain release window, with the Rift and Vive coming out within the next month.

Ah ok. So it's not super hard, but it does require pre-planning to reduce disruption, and some design changes to make sure it works as well in SLI as single GPU.

It seems for more graphically intense games, it'd be a good way of providing gamers with more graphical options that they'll eventually be able to use - or can use now with SLI.

 

[mhayze]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

So why not buy a cyberpowerpc box (or similar) that meets min requirements for $1200 to $1500, it comes ready to go. Go through a an initial signin process roughly comparable to an intial signin for an iphone, download steam via a browser and enter your existing steam credentials (you can sigup for that via Mac if you haven't already). That should be about it for 'dealing with windows'. You can make steam run full screen everytime you turn on the box.

Consider it a single use device - running VR.

 

[Owlowiscious]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

I'd suggest just waiting for PSVR and going that route since you're not a PC guy.

That said I've seen vr ready machines start to finish built for $700~

 

[Turin Turambar]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

Using Windows isn't going to kill you, you know, even more when it's barely a few clicks. Just put Steam to start with Windows and you need a pair of clicks to install a game and another one to launch it.

 

[metareferential]

Using Windows isn't going to kill you, you know, even more when it's barely a few clicks. Just put Steam to start with Windows and you need a pair of clicks to install a game and another one to launch it.

Even better: no password/user on windows, steam on startup, xb1 controller always connected: turn on pc, wait a few seconds, press guide button and he'll be in Steam's big picture mode (even in VR, it already works perfectly).

 

[Vuze]

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/htc-vive-erfahrungen-test/ (German)

Welp, reading through this article it seems like the low pixel density is still distracting and clearly apparent, often making text hard to read. That's really my main concern with any consumer headset, here's to hope next generation GPUs will power higher resolution displays in the next iterations of the hardware.

 

[Krejlooc]

So, had not realized until the other day that the Vive has no integrated audio.


What is everyone using for an audio solution? I have Turtle Beach XP Sevens that are pretty great, but I worry about cord length when using roomscale....

I have a pair of Skullcandy PLR2 wireless headphones. Yes yes, I know I know, skullcandy and all, but cutting the wire was my main concern. I've had them for like 3 years now.

 

[Krejlooc]

Curious about what you VIVE/PC guys thoughts are on a self-contained setup. I'm a console guy who has been excited about VR since the first murmurs. This video finally sold me on the VIVE , but I'm not only a console guy, but a MAC guy who's deep into that ecosystem personally and professionally. Lucky Palmer might have been a bit rough around the edges with his comments on MAC, but he was actually correct: It's just not happening.

I've ZERO desire to get involved in a PC environment. If somebody told me that I could buy a closed box that meets all of the recommended specs with a GUI/Interface that I interact with totally through the VIVE, and it cost 1200.00 to 1500.00, I'd honestly consider saving up to get it. I don't want to deal with windows or linux or anything else. I just want to use the VIVe and whatever Steam store/browser/app experience made for it. That's it.

I suspect there are MANY people out there who might feel similarly. Do you guys think that something like that could take off?

Buy one of these:

http://www.alienware.com/landings/oculus/

install steam on it, run big picture mode and check the box that says "start steam and run big picture mode when my PC boots." Set the PC to boot without any password prompts.

Bam, you have what you asked for. You'll never really have to interact with windows again. Your PC, when you turn it on, will take you directly to this:

It's controllable with an ordinary Xbox pad, or a keyboard, or a mouse, or a steam controller. It has a built in Webbrowser that is gamepad compatible. You can install and uninstall things on your PC from within steam's interface, using your gamepad. You can launch and reboot and turn off your PC from within this interface. All your friendslist stuff is in this interface. You can launch steamVR games from it.

If you wanted to go one step further, you could also install Kodi on your computer, then add a link from Steam to it, so you could launch this from that interface:

That would handle all your media needs. It's also controllable with an xbox controller. You can add an icon to Kodi from steam so it smoothly integrates.

 

[metareferential]

http://www.computerbase.de/2016-03/htc-vive-erfahrungen-test/ (German)

Welp, reading through this article it seems like the low pixel density is still distracting and clearly apparent, often making text hard to read. That's really my main concern with any consumer headset, here's to hope next generation GPUs will power higher resolution displays in the next iterations of the hardware.

Text hard to read is more a software thing rather than a hardware one: some games ate perfectly fine tuned (live for speed) and text is sharp and readable, while others aren't.

I understand though that text-heavy games could suffer anyway.

 

[mhayze]

This past week was crazy busy and I somehow missed the Vive pre-order until Thursday. I thought about it for a day (dat $799 pricetag) and then pre-ordered yesterday. It still said "Ships in May" but that could just be static text on the page - the actual confirmation message didn't say anything about an expected ship date (unlike the Rift pre-order).

I wonder which I will receive first, my slightly late Rift pre-order, or my relatively more late Vive pre-order. My only worry now is that it will take so long for the Oculus touch controllers to ship that it will be harder to decide which one I keep and which one I sell, until the resale value starts dropping.