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How can you say thing when you don't know what the development environment will be like for the two SKU's? If they can develop for both the original ps4 and the PS4K using the same SDK then not much changes other than configuration settings and whether the game should use Ultra HD assets dependant on which console the game is running on.

Considering the rumour clearly states that it's the GPU clockspeed that is increasing (it's not a whole new architecture) I wouldn't be surprised if that is the case.

I'm not trying to say that they are changing the architecture, I'm just saying that if there are two PS4s on the market I feel like that statement is wrong. Yes, one might program for one PS4 and get it ready for the other (PS4K), but that doesn't mean they are going to have the same performance. I honestly hope to god that Sony enforces the 60-90-120hz rule, because I can easily see the OG PS4 getting the 45hz to 90hz reprojection instead of the 60hz one.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The problem here, which is why people are concerned, is that the PS4 version gets left behind when they went in expecting a full generation for their platform. That's why people are unhappy. It's not some crazy expectation that people had when they bought a PS4 since this has been the model for decades.

The question is what do you call \ mean by left behind .
Because if you mean worst performing games that was going to happen as the gen moved on anyway .
Just look at last gen and how GTAV was on those systems .

 

[SmiteOfHand]

The problem here, which is why people are concerned, is that the PS4 version gets left behind when they went in expecting a full generation for their platform. That's why people are unhappy. It's not some crazy expectation that people had when they bought a PS4 since this has been the model for decades.

2019 is a full traditional generational amount of time of support.

 

[nib95]

Honestly, I really think they should have just stuck with a standard cycle refresh, but kept it at 5-6 years instead or 8. That way people don't feel done over because late entrants to the cycle get super cheap pricing, and there's enough value for money for early adopters. No idea why They're splitting it up after 4 years instead. Might as well have just waited the extra year or two and done a proper refresh, having the VR etc backwards compatible with it.

 

[Maintenance]

I would've bought a PS5 in 2018.

 

[Anteater]

Neat, I'll jump on this, interested to see how the newer games perform.

Wonder if they'd patch the first party games to take advantage of the new hardware. Hopefully they do with games like uncharted.

 

[AstroNut325]

Fixed that for you. Seems Nintendo is getting more goodwill, all thanks to Arrogant Sony and MS pushing the console industry to edge of a cliff. It looks like Nintendo has to save the console industry again from exploding permanently.

I can't tell if this post is a joke or not. Nintendo is already following the iterative hardware model. And signs are pointing towards them following the iterative model for the NX.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The question is whether a ps5 will offer s generation leap compared to ps4k. The effect of a new console will be way less when the release of new hardware comes sooner than before.

That would depend on what tech leaps happen in those years .
For eg even with PSK4 coming out early next year it won't be using HBM2 .
And for certain PS5 will use that or a upgrade version and who knows what else .
Still we are hitting the silicon wall for chips so something has to happen .

 

[Marty Chinn]

The question is what do you call \ mean by left behind .
Because if you mean worst performing games that was going to happen as the gen moved on anyway .
Just look at last gen and how GTAV was on those systems .

What? GTA5 ran great on PS3/360 and they came out first long before any other platform. The performance on those games didn't suffer either.

 

[SolidusDave]

And you'll get the performance gains on your existing games when you upgrade. You don't get that with the PS4/PS4K.

True, didn't even think of this. PS4K will require a patch for each existing game lol.


Should at least throw in native PS3 BC to have a good reason for beefier specs on the PS4K...

 

[Moneal]

You're a visitor from another universe aren't you? Busted!

But do tell, which games run terrible on PS4 but great on Xbox One in your universe?

where did i say that? I said they were targeted for xbox1 and ps4 brute forced its way through. PS4 ran most games better just by being more powerful. many games have more time spent optimizing for xbox1 because it is the weaker console.

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

You should DEFINITELY get a PC if your aim is to be on the high end of the graphics spectrum. I love my PC.

I also love my consoles (exclusives). I'm not sold on the idea of upgraded midcycle consoles, but if the changes are worthwhile I may consider getting one.

Is it super expensive to keep your gaming PC relevant? I PC gamed heavily well over a decade ago when the first Everquest, Starcraft and Diablo came out. I am looking towards jumping back in and staying in for awhile. I was told to wait for the release of the new graphics cards so that's what I am doing.

 

[c0de]

That would depend on what tech leaps happen in those years .
For eg even with PSK4 coming out early next year it won't be using HBM2 .
And for certain PS5 will use that and who knows what else .

It will also depend on how often we now get hardware iterations. Still the difference between ps4 and ps5 will be bigger than ps4k and ps5.

 

[Saintruski]

Is it super expensive to keep your gaming PC relevant? I PC gamed heavily well over a decade ago when the first Everquest, Starcraft and Diablo came out. I am looking towards jumping back in and staying in for awhile. I was told to wait for the release of the new graphics cards so that's what I am doing.

No...buy a nice card on a strong base system that meets your input needs with a quad core cpu that has solid single thread performance and it will last you a long while (people are still rocking 2500ks...hell I know people that still use 920s and q6600s even...) and just upgrade your card once in a blue moon. You'll probably be waiting till early 2017 for big pascal/vega with note worthy HBM2 attached. Otherwise little pascal and Polaris on new nodes (16/14nm) with substantial performance improvements drop this year with GDDRX5 with near the same bandwidth as HMB1, and higher capacity and cheaper cost, also it's more plentiful and ready available.

Edit: almost forgot to mention in an Nvidia user, but if you want your card to last longer...to get the most out of your card don't get Nvidia get AMD, Nvidia legacy support is poor, they tend to push you to update more often and faster. The driver support for older AMD cards is excellent and it shows in benchmarks. I get Nvidia because well EVGA exists and there awesome support, warranty, step up programs, cross shipping, etc...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

What? GTA5 ran great on PS3/360 and they came out first long before any other platform. The performance on those games didn't suffer either.

You are joking right GTAV ran at subs 30fps a lot of the time.
Plus it ran at 720p when most people had 1080p tvs .
Also how about TLOU or COD games on PS3 .

It will also depend on how often we now get hardware iterations. Still the difference between ps4 and ps5 will be bigger than ps4k and ps5.

Of course .

 

[nib95]

I would've bought a PS5 in 2018.

Agreed. Fact that some people may have spent $399 on something that only a year later will likely be far less important in terms of tech value proposition and prominence, is a really bad look. The current PS4 ought to be a minimum of $249-$299 at least whole year before any such new hardware is released, that way the people who bought in late don't feel as bad.

 

[NolbertoS]

I can't tell if this post is a joke or not. Nintendo is already following the iterative hardware model. And signs are pointing towards them following the iterative model for the NX.

What joke post?? Nintendo are releasing a NEW console, not a Wii U.5 or Wii U2. Nintendo aren't Market leaders, hence the push for a new console. They're aren't fragmenting their console fans?? Nintendo has never pushed super duper graphics, 4K, DRM into the Living room like MS and to small extent Sony tried stealthily. Nintendo seems in a perfect position to take the disgruntled market and shore up their position in the industry.

 

[duhmetree]

Stop crying.

Gamestop, as well as every other major retailer, will more than likely have a trade-in program. They would be foolish not to.

 

[nib95]

Stop crying.

Gamestop, as well as every other major retailer, will more than likely have a trade-in program. They would be foolish not to.

Doesn't mean that trade in programme will actually offer you much value proposition. I'd be surprised if their programme is more lucrative than simply selling one's console privately, e.g. on eBay, Gumtree, Craigslist etc. No doubt the value of the console will plummet once the new one releases as well.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Agreed. Fact that some people may have spent $399 on something that only a year later will likely be far less important in terms of tech value proposition and prominence, is a really bad look. The current PS4 ought to be a minimum of $249-$299 at least whole year before any such new hardware is released, that way the people who bought in late don't feel as bad.

I don't see why they would feel bad if this is price lets say $500.
Were they going to spend that sort of money to begin with ?
This system seem for people that like new tech but don't like waiting as long for eg people like me .
Price point is a much bigger deal when it comes to people buying a new system .

 

[Ranger X]

As long as the games are made so they run fine on normal PS4s and have extra beautiful for the PS4k I am ok with this (and not buying!).

If games will be made for PS4k and cheapened for being able to run on normal PS4s, you know this means games will run like dog shit...

 

[GHG]

I'm not trying to say that they are changing the architecture, I'm just saying that if there are two PS4s on the market I feel like that statement is wrong. Yes, one might program for one PS4 and get it ready for the other (PS4K), but that doesn't mean they are going to have the same performance. I honestly hope to god that Sony enforces the 60-90-120hz rule, because I can easily see the OG PS4 getting the 45hz to 90hz reprojection instead of the 60hz one.

You don't understand... This doesn't change much for developers if it is just a clockspeed change. They develop the game once and simply have different configurations for each version. It is not equivalent of having to develop/optimise for 2 entirely different consoles through different SDK's.

What joke post?? Nintendo are releasing a NEW console, not a Wii U.5 or Wii U2. Nintendo aren't Market leaders, hence the push for a new console. They're aren't fragmenting their console fans?? Nintendo has never pushed super duper graphics, 4K, DRM into the Living room like MS and to small extent Sony tried stealthily. Nintendo seems in a perfect position to take the disgruntled market and shore up their position in the industry.

It's nice to have dreams.

 

[flipswitch]

So GTAVI will be ( I'm guessing) optimised for PS4K, since it's still early in production.

 

[GlamFM]

This all sound very good!

Hope the go for the faster CPU.

Can´t wait!

 

[Marty Chinn]

You are joking right GTAV ran at subs 30fps a lot of the time.
Plus it ran at 720p when most people had 1080p tvs .
Also how about TLOU or COD games on PS3 .

Can't take you seriously anymore. That whole generation ran at 720p so it's silly to point out that we had 1080p TVs.

 

[nib95]

I don't see why they would feel bad if this is price lets say $500.
Were they going to spend that sort of money to begin with ?
This system seem for people that like new tech but don't like waiting as long for eg people like me .
Price point is a much bigger deal when it comes to people buying a new system .

Because for only $100 more, they could have waited only a year and got more than twice the hardware performance. That's utterly ridiculous.

 

[doorframe]

Why are people thinking a 2x jump is worthy of a new generation? Going from PS3's 250ish Gigaflops to the PS4's 1.8TF is a 7-8x increase. That's a generation leap.

Fair enough, don't know much about the technical stuff. Just that having these sorts of specification upgrades and sending out dev kits for its is something we haven't experienced with new iterations of previous consoles, well I think anyway.

 

[Mung]

Very interesting. I think this is partially a consequence of a cheap launch price and conservative hardware.

I'm sure the basic ps4 will continue to sell very well.

 

[tskeeve]

Yep, super pissed - the performance sacrifice issue reared its head, as expected. I really enjoy Sony's first party games, but I'll never buy a console again if things continue down this path.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

$399/499 is a bad play. Needs to be $349 and discontinue the old SKU, just like PS2/3 revisions.

This is not a revision. This is a stronger SKU, which will cost more than the old one. I don#t like those smartphone / tablet comparisons, but in this case, you might compare it with different iPads: Right now you can choose between iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro. PS4 and PS4k will use the very same approach: Entry-level PS4 for the masses, PS4k for enthusiasts. Makes sense from a business perspective, if Sony is able to get enough PS4 uses to churn to the new SKU, that is. Which is to be seen. I am positive this will work out for them.

 

[ElTorro]

Why are people thinking a 2x jump is worthy of a new generation? Going from PS3's 250ish Gigaflops to the PS4's 1.8TF is a 7-8x increase. That's a generation leap.

A meaningful definition of a generational leap would be the loss of upwards compatibility. That is, that the old console can't play the games made for the new console.

 

[TheHolyTurnip]

Ease of use , having physical media , having one online store , other media options (Blu ray streaming option etc etc ) .
Easy to play and talk with friends etc etc but this don't really change much for consoles when it comes to certain people .

Ease of use doesn't really matter for me, learning is a thing in willing to do.
Physical media is probably the biggest thing for me really but with a PC i can pirate or emulate something that is no longer available (mostly, grrr original Xbox) so that's not as much of an issue as it could be.
Streaming options are readily available on PC, i don't have friends on any of the console eco systems and rarely find a multiplayer game i like anyway so that's also a non issue.

The biggest things that contributed to me not going PC originally were exclusives and the physical media, but PC had its own exclusives while console seem to be getting less and less, and according to most people here digital is going to take over anyway so I should just move on to the future. Starting to think they may be right....

 

[tskeeve]

This is not a revision. This is a stronger SKU, which will cost more than the old one. I don#t like those smartphone / tablet comparisons, but in this case, you might compare it with different iPads: Right now you can choose between iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro. PS4 and PS4k will use the very same approach: Entry-level PS4 for the masses, PS4k for enthusiasts. Makes sense from a business perspective, if Sony is able to get enough PS4 uses to churn to the new SKU, that is. Which is to be seen. I am positive this will work out for them.

That's a fair comparison (iPad Air 2 and iPad Pro), but the problem is that Sony is waiting 3 years to release the "Pro" version. It's pretty strange to have an enthusiast-level device release in the middle of a console generation, since most enthusiasts would have already bought into the generation by now.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

A meaningful definition of a generational leap would be the loss of upwards compatibility. That is, that the old console can't play the games made for the new console.

This + traditionally 8-10x the power of the old one. And still people will struggle to see any differences these days ("diminishing returns").

 

[ninjablade]

Can't take you seriously anymore. That whole generation ran at 720p so it's silly to point out that we had 1080p TVs.

Those games ran like shit though, sub 30fps frequently, and the whole generation was 720p but 720p was really outdated by then.

 

[hesido]

A meaningful definition of a generational leap would be the loss of upwards compatibility. That is, that the old console can't play the games made for the new console.

This is exactly what I'm asking from Sony. Have the PS5 backwards compatible. Don't make my PS4 play PS5 targeting games in a shitty way.

 

[Wind's Howling]

As long as I can play Uncharted 4 with 1080p/30 and that is the kind of level of fidelity I can expect with future games on the PS4 I am fine with the PS4K being introduced in order for people with a 4K TV to truly enjoy their screen resolution.

The moment I hear or learn that devs start developing for PS4K and games get terrible performance issues on the PS4... That is when I will seriously start to consider going back towards Nintendo.

 

[Roshin]

All I'm thinking is how long will it be until they release an upgraded model again? Another 2-3 years?

I need to see how this all turns out, but I'll likely be PC only from now on.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

I think this whole upgrade model will be met with some resistance, but in the end people will simply adapt to it and buy whatever new version of the PS4 comes out.

Similar to mobile phones.

 

[cripterion]

Oh I guess that explains that early Deep Down footage...it was running on PS4K.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Those games ran like shit though, sub 30fps frequently, and the whole generation was 720p but 720p was really outdated by then.

This revision history of how last generation was so shitty running at 720p and subpar framerates is very amusing.

 

[XxRampage07xX]

I can understand your reasoning but I feel like we're going in circles. Yes, every PS4 will be the same as another PS4, while evey PS4K will be the same as another PS4K. However, they will be selling together, like the 2DS/3DS/N3DS, so the games will have to deal with 2 configurations, PS4 and PS4K.

This is not like PS3 vs PS4, PS4 and PS4K are - apparently - on the same "gen".

So... are you worried that PS4K will have better VR performance than PS4? I think it will because PS4K will have more power, which means devs can choose to use better textures and assets or improve frame rate for the PS4K version. But don't worry, I don't think VR on OG PS4 will be too bad since OG PS4 owners will be likely the first to purchase PSVR and surely, Sony won't want to piss off their customers and leave bad impressions which will hurt PSVR sales as time goes by.

 

[joecanada]

Honestly, I think this gives Nintendo a real chance to get back in the race. If they can release at a comparable price point, and be as powerful as the 4K consoles, I will just buy an NX instead of having a second PS4.

So evil sony upgrades after 3 years but good guy Nintendo waited about 4. Well at least we know the threshold now. also wiiu probably had half the actual games in that time too but maybe not I can't check now

 

[LightOfTruth]

So because I supported Sony relatively earlier, I'm being punished by getting stuck with an inferior product?

This is complete bullshit. Fuck this if true.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Can't take you seriously anymore. That whole generation ran at 720p so it's silly to point out that we had 1080p TVs.

It's not silly at all people upgrade there TVs but we were still stuck on 720p .
Your whole point of PS4K going to make devs make worst games on PS4 don't make any sense.
Devs were going to do that either way as time goes on in fact it happening even early on in this gen .
They only difference now is some of us don't have to be stuck with that .

Ease of use doesn't really matter for me, learning is a thing in willing to do.
Physical media is probably the biggest thing for me really but with a PC i can pirate or emulate something that is no longer available (mostly, grrr original Xbox) so that's not as much of an issue as it could be.
Streaming options are readily available on PC, i don't have friends on any of the console eco systems and rarely find a multiplayer game i like anyway so that's also a non issue.

The biggest things that contributed to me not going PC originally were exclusives and the physical media, but PC had its own exclusives while console seem to be getting less and less, and according to most people here digital is going to take over anyway so I should just move on to the future. Starting to think they may be right....

Well i was just answering you question of what is the point of consoles lol
Everyone not going to have same gaming habits and needs.

 

[T-0800]

Sony have this gen in the bag and something like this is likely to do more harm than good. Not sure how PS4 sales for the rest of the year can be as good as they would have been without this waiting in the shadows.

 

[GHG]

Because for only $100 more, they could have waited only a year and got more than twice the hardware performance. That's utterly ridiculous.

No it's not. This is exactly how it works with PC's, phones, tablets, etc.

I for one am glad that the console space will no longer be subject to long periods of stagnation while the rest of the world moves on. Especially in a world where VR and 4K are being pushed as the new standards. Waiting 5-7 years for new hardware is ridiculous as we saw with the dropoff in sales last generation and the speed of early adoption this generation. The world is a different place now, people are willing to upgrade their technology more frequently provided their old software purchases carry over.

 

[flipswitch]

It's not silly at all people upgrade there TVs but we were still stuck on 720p .
Your whole point of PS4K going to make devs make worst games on PS4 don't make any sense.
Devs were going to do that either way as time goes on .
They only difference now is some of us don't have to be stuck with that .

I upgraded to 1080p in 2009. So midway through ps3's cycle.

 

[doofy102]

My next Sony console will be the PS5.5. The PS4.5 and the PS5 both feel like garbage purchases now, for different reasons.

edit: Probably not true, but fuck.

 

[nib95]

So evil sony upgrades after 3 years but good guy Nintendo waited about 4. Well at least we know the threshold now. also wiiu probably had half the actual games in that time too but maybe not I can't check now

If the PS4K comes out in 2017, that would be 4 years in to the PS4's life cycle...