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[Diablos]

That they need so much more CPU and GPU processing tells me they really underestimated how much power would be necessary for carrying PS4 through an entire generation.

I'm not opposed to the idea of an "upgrade" but I just bought my console in December. I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a little burned right now.

 

[GlamFM]

No, but they won't put the best effort in ensuring they run as good as they would have had it been a single console platform launch. We've already seen it a bunch this generation.

I'm firmly in the, "going to PC" crowd or waiting for the first time in my life for a console for several years.

Logically it just doesn't make sense for me to stay a primary "console" gamer when the exclusives this generation have been absolutely lacklustre so far and I can get a way better experience for the same amount of money out of a PC.

The 4K will probably never surpass the PS4 in lifetime sales. There are good reasons to put a lot of effort into the PS4 version.

I see where you are coming from, but I wouldn´t worry too much.

 

[Springfoot]

I'm not that sure it's only for console limitations. SVOGI it's extremely expensive on PC too.

Sure, but people running current cards on PC are playing around with Nvidia's VXGI integration in UE4 right now. Also, if Epic had known they would be able to get something remotely close to a playable realtime GI solution, they would have invested in further optimizations (nearly every update they've done for the past couple years has improved engine stability and performance while simultaneously enhancing the visuals), but because they knew SVOGI and other similar techniques were so far outside the realm of what the PS4/XBO hardware could support for most projects, none of that stuff is getting developed at all.

It's not entirely impossible after all - The Tomorrow Children uses something similar (voxel cone tracing), but is a visually simplistic game in all other respects. Using a similar technique on something like Killzone, Halo, or Gears wouldn't work on the hardware we have. Hell, even the fully baked approach used on Halo 4 didn't allow them to get a stable 1080p/60fps without visible pop in and LOD transitions, let alone do something remotely close to realtime GI.

To be clear, I'm not upset. I would have loved to get better hardware back in 2013 that would have allowed us to push realtime rendering tech further, but we still got something decent that didn't scare everyone away, like PS3's $600 price tag. The point I was making was that the hardware we ended up getting did have an impact on what kind of rendering tech we're seeing right now, contrary to what that other poster was trying to pretend.

 

[Raide]

That they need so much more CPU and GPU processing tells me they really underestimated how much power would be necessary for carrying PS4 through an entire generation.

I'm not opposed to the idea of an "upgrade" but I just bought my console in December. I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a little burned right now.

Especially when they are betting big on VR. As soon as VR is introduced, power becomes a major issue.

 

[Impeccable]

The 4K will probably never surpass the PS4 in lifetime sales. There are good reasons to put a lot of effort into the PS4 version.

I see where you are coming from, but I wouldn´t worry too much.

I'm not worrying at all. I'm just waiting and switching if need be.

It's a disappointing move that I didn't expect coming from the console industry. I am not blind to how much cheaper it is to PC game so this is just a nudge that maybe I needed.

 

[Lt.Chips]

Were you buying a PS4 for multiplatform games instead of exclusives?

Good point, enjoyed Bloodborne but that's about it for exclusives so far. Waiting for Uncharted 4, but otherwise, it's been pretty lackluster. This is in stark contrast to PS3 where I enjoyed so many exclusives. Not what I expected when I purchased the PS4...

 

[Matthew23]

I'm not opposed to the idea of an "upgrade" but I just bought my console in December. I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a little burned right now.

Sony really should offer some kind of trade in program, specifically for those who purchased a PS4 within the year prior to whenever PS4K is released. PS3's long lifespan created high expectations for PS4 owners. Throw them a bone this time and next gen everyone goes in with their eyes open.

 

[Melchiah]

Good point, enjoyed Bloodborne but that's about it for exclusives so far. Waiting for Uncharted 4, but otherwise, it's been pretty lackluster. This is in stark contrast to PS3 where I enjoyed so many exclusives. Not what I expected when I purchased the PS4...

Are you comparing the PS4's current library with the PS3's lifetime library, or the first 28 months? Because the latter was more lackluster than what we have now.

 

[family_guy]

I hope Sony treats PS4K as a separate system in terms of DRM. It would be great to have a PS4 and PS4k both set as primary.

 

[Heavy Iron Industries]

Still waiting for an April Fools/just kidding post from somewhere regarding PS4k.

...its gonna happen, right?

 

[jimbobsmells]

Still waiting for an April Fools/just kidding post from somewhere regarding PS4k.

...its gonna happen, right?

Nope

I hope Sony treats PS4K as a separate system in terms of DRM. It would be great to have a PS4 and PS4k both set as primary.

That doesn't make much sense for them to do that, they are essentially the same machine and are playing the same games. I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[warheat]

Still waiting for an April Fools/just kidding post from somewhere regarding PS4k.

...its gonna happen, right?

I wish

 

[LoveCake]

So its not an April's fools then?

 

[FrozenCell]

So does anyone think this could be part of a strategy to drive 4K TV adoption given Sony's place in that market? I think its often ignored just how much PS3 and 360 did to drive flatscreen HDTV sales in the mid 2000's. My former Boss was the CFO of a large Australian electronics retailer in that era, and he once told me that while it wasn't the only factor, he credited PS3 and 360 for kickstarting the consumer upgrade push from the old CRT sets to flat panel HD.

Maybe they're trying to do that same for 4K? Give consumers a reason to upgrade by giving them a content source.

4K alone, which is currently what most sets offer, is meh for regular screen sizes at regular viewing distances, where 1080p already gives your eyes enough PPD (pixels per degree)

otoh, PS4K outputting HDR10 or Dolby Vision for games (which internally already process colors in high dynamic range) could easily drive HDR telly upgrades - which mostly implement HDR in 4K tho, but since it scales perfectly there's zero reason not to

 

[Death2494]

Scumbag Sony wont announce shit about PS4K until Uncharted 4 releases for a good window of time my guess is.

Lots of potential owners could go for it.

And then, they will just tell them that they can upgrade their hardware... fun times.

I trying to understand the argument here? Everything you guys are suggesting is completely conjecture. Try to understand that the base ps4 will still be Sony's primary focus because that is where they will be making the most profit as parts get even cheaper going forward. This is just an enthusiast version of the ps4. Sony understands that this will not sell as fast as the current ps4. The people who might get screwed are the ones who upgrade for marginal increased performance in their games. But don't, for a second, believe that developers will dismiss the current ps4 install for a smaller, hypothetical PS4K one. There are different tiers for almost all consumer products. Why should consoles be excluded? Final point, day one ps4 owners are probably the least likely to feel screwed because they have had the hardware for the longest and gotten the most out of it. This is targeted to those similar to myself. A hardcore day one who is ready for an upgrade.

 

[GlamFM]

So its not an April's fools then?

Of course not.

 

[jimbobsmells]

So its not an April's fools then?

These rumours have been circulating for almost 2 weeks. Longest, pointlessly drawn out April fools ever if so.

 

[Dahaka]

If Osiris reads this.

Will the PS4k als introduce a NEW Dualshock 4 generation which all PS4-variants can benefit from? Like longer battery for instance.

 

[MUnited83]

Good point, enjoyed Bloodborne but that's about it for exclusives so far. Waiting for Uncharted 4, but otherwise, it's been pretty lackluster. This is in stark contrast to PS3 where I enjoyed so many exclusives. Not what I expected when I purchased the PS4...

Yep, same here. I see little reason to ever upgrade when the exclusive library is so lackluster after almost three years...

 

[Elandyll]

As a current owner, I'm very pissed about this. Pretty much a guarantee that as I thought earlier the ps4 will get clunkier versions of many games going forward.

Not really, more like a guarantee that the PS4 will get PS4 level versions (1080p30/ 900p60), same as it has been getting, while the PS4K will likely get PS4K level versions (1080p60).

I see the circlejerk of overreaction is still going strong...

On a different topic and not adressed to the above poster specifically...

Has Osiris gooten back with the additional info at any point last night or this morning?

 

[KojiKnight]

Not really, more like a guarantee that the PS4 will get PS4 level versions (1080p30/ 900p60), same as it has been getting, while the PS4K will likely get PS4K level versions (1080p60).

I see the circlejerk of overreaction is still going strong...

On a different topic and not adressed to the above poster specifically...

Has Osiris gooten back with the additional info at any point last night or this morning?

I see the circle jerk of corporate apologism is still going... See what I did there? This type of thing contributes nothing especially when you don't have any more information than anyone else.

 

[FrozenCell]

That they need so much more CPU and GPU processing tells me they really underestimated how much power would be necessary for carrying PS4 through an entire generation.

they we're constrained by both cost and thermal budgets

not opposed to the idea of an "upgrade" but I just bought my console in December. I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a little burned right now.

I think iPad 3 -> iPad 4 was proper trolling

 

[Diablos]

Especially when they are betting big on VR. As soon as VR is introduced, power becomes a major issue.

Makes me wonder if the real difference will be for VR. Will they simply aim for parity between 4K and 1080p for gaming? Thus, will traditional PS4k games really be "2x" better graphically?

 

[Elandyll]

I see the circle jerk of corporate apologism is still going... See what I did there? This type of thing contributes nothing especially when you don't have any more information than anyone else.

I have common sense and what is said in the OP? See what I did there?

 

[CyberPunked]

So its not an April's fools then?

The name, "PS4K", should be a joke.

 

[Iztok Mravlja]

You will get the versions you would have gotten regardless.

It´s not like they are going to make the PS4 versions somehow run worse just to fuck with you.

Why do I read this so often?

Depending on sales of the PS4K, games might be optimized for that instead. You don't see that happening? I find it inevitable. Maybe not across the board, but for certain games, at least.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

So are we taking bets that this is the reason why Rockstar hasn't been announcing anything for their next title? Because the real/true version of whatever it is, will be the one ending up on PS4K. -_-

 

[Raide]

Makes me wonder if the real difference will be for VR. Will they simply aim for parity between 4K and 1080p for traditional gaming? This, will PS4k games really be "2x" better graphically?

Even with this rumoured PS4k update, its not enough to run games in 4k. Even top end PC struggle. Throw in VR and it has no chance.

VR performance will be as it is now but probably much smoother and better detail. PS4 games will be 1080p@60 with more effects etc. Maybe some Downsampling added to further add detail and remove AA.

 

[jimbobsmells]

The name, "PS4K", should be a joke.

I have serious doubts it'll actually be called that.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Not really, more like a guarantee that the PS4 will get PS4 level versions (1080p30/ 900p60), same as it has been getting, while the PS4K will likely get PS4K level versions (1080p60).

I see the circlejerk of overreaction is still going strong...

On a different topic and not adressed to the above poster specifically...

Has Osiris gooten back with the additional info at any point last night or this morning?

Let's step back and think logically about this. What you're describing is the best case scenario, right? Nothing changes and everything you were ok with/enjoyed is still there. There is a worst case scenario however that they could do things like 3DS did (since there's precedence) that certain games will only work on the new system. It is also possible that developers what to hit x graphics or whatever on the new console and due to time constraints poorly adapt it to the lower hardware which could lead to worse looking graphics or much worse framerates we currently experience since they now have to test two different setups and one would think they would prioritize the more powerful unit first. I'm not going to argue whether this will happen but you can't hand wave that it never could happen or that there's no downside to this when it's definitely possible.

 

[Diablos]

Even with this rumoured PS4k update, its not enough to run games in 4k. Even top end PC struggle. Throw in VR and it has no chance.

VR performance will be as it is now but probably much smoother and better detail. PS4 games will be 1080p@60 with more effects etc. Maybe some Downsampling added to further add detail and remove AA.

Yeah which is why I think this is a bad idea. Risk isn't worth the reward. Of course they could have something like a custom bus or what have you that allows for better performance but I doubt it would be substantial.

The upgrade idea isn't a bad one but maybe wait a couple more years I would have to say. I think Sony is risking a lot.

 

[Jameson]

Surprise people are bringing up the NX as their savior, Forgetting Nintendo's completely ending their support for their current console after 3 years.

OG PS4 will out last both the WiiU/NX combined.

 

[Raistlin]

I don't think AAA like Bloodborne 2 or U5 will be PS4K exclusive, that is probably going to be the biggest fuck up than X1 announcement. But I expect a half ass performance on OG PS4 especially from Ubisoft which is why I'm upset with this idea.

I've seen a similar line of thinking repeated throughout this thread, and I'm honestly curious where it comes from.

The more likely scenario is if any version is going to be shortchanged, it would be the 4k version since the user base is with the OG and will be for some time ... maybe for the entire gen.

 

[GlamFM]

Why do I read this so often?

Depending on sales of the PS4K, games might be optimized for that instead. You don't see that happening? I find it inevitable. Maybe not across the board, but for certain games, at least.

First of all - you always target your biggest audience. That´s one of the reasons 3rd parties could not be bothered to wrestle with the Cell processor last gen.

And 2nd - they will just optimize both versions. The boxes will basically have the same architecture - it´s not a 360 and PS3 kind of situation.

I have serious doubts it'll actually be called that.

I think it´s a great name. Marketing is probably all over it.

 

[Raide]

Yeah which is why I think this is a bad idea. Risk isn't worth the reward. Of course they could have something like a custom bus or what have you that allows for better performance but I doubt it would be substantial.

The upgrade idea isn't a bad one but maybe wait a couple more years I would have to say. I think Sony is risking a lot.

I guess they are stuck really. They want to push VR because the one who gains a foothold within VR has a strong chance of taking control but the console they are pushing it for is just not powerful enough to push VR. SO they either push VR on a lower platform for a couple of years and hope people latch on and then upgrade, or jump in early and hope people are ok with suck a short generation.

Either way, they risk the chance of utterly messing up. I guess MS has the luxury of doing an upgrade, while letting Occulus do the VR push and they can just support it. Sony is pushing more products in different directions.

 

[Setsuna]

That they need so much more CPU and GPU processing tells me they really underestimated how much power would be necessary for carrying PS4 through an entire generation.

I'm not opposed to the idea of an "upgrade" but I just bought my console in December. I'd be lying if I said I don't feel a little burned right now.

Systems could have launched with SLI Titans and it still wouldn't be enough

 

[QaaQer]

Just noticed SemiAccurate had an article from oct 2013 about how Sony was not going to follow the traditional console cycle with ps4 and was going to go incremental upgrade with die shrinks.

I guess this wasn't reactionary at all.

And Ps5 is supposed to be the following die shrink. This might be a long gen after all.

I guess they are stuck really. They want to push VR because the one who gains a foothold within VR has a strong chance of taking control but the console they are pushing it for is just not powerful enough to push VR. SO they either push VR on a lower platform for a couple of years and hope people latch on and then upgrade, or jump in early and hope people are ok with suck a short generation.

Either way, they risk the chance of utterly messing up. I guess MS has the luxury of doing an upgrade, while letting Occulus do the VR push and they can just support it. Sony is pushing more products in different directions.

ps4 can and does push vr though.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I have serious doubts it'll actually be called that.

It would be a shame to waste a name on whatever could come out now. Wait for the third iteration in 2020 where 4K native may be feasible, then the PS4K name is all too perfect.

 

[Orin GA]

So it is April first and no ones fessed up yet. I guess this is real then.

 

[qa_engineer]

First of all - you always target your biggest audience. That´s one of the reasons 3rd parties could not be bothered to wrestle with the Cell processor last gen.

And 2nd - they will just optimize both versions. The boxes will basically have the same architecture - it´s not a 360 and PS3 kind of situation.



I think it´s a great name. Marketing is probably all over it.

Yep. PS4K, followed by PS5 and then PS5K. The K moniker can be used to signify the high end model, similar to Intel adding K to their enthusiast, unlocked CPUs

 

[MchugN]

Let's step back and think logically about this. What you're describing is the best case scenario, right? Nothing changes and everything you were ok with/enjoyed is still there. There is a worst case scenario however that they could do things like 3DS did (since there's precedence) that certain games will only work on the new system. It is also possible that developers what to hit x graphics or whatever on the new console and due to time constraints poorly adapt it to the lower hardware which could lead to worse looking graphics or much worse framerates we currently experience since they now have to test two different setups and one would think they would prioritize the more powerful unit first. I'm not going to argue whether this will happen but you can't hand wave that it never could happen or that there's no downside to this when it's definitely possible.

So would Xbox One owners get screwed over too on multplat releases in this scenario? I find it odd that with such a large install base with XB1/PS4 developers would start duping those games in favor of the console that will have a smaller install base for quite some time if not indefinitely.

 

[AmyS]

In terms of true next generation consoles, it's going to take going to the end of these GPU roadmaps, and maybe the middle of the HBM roadmap to get a true generational leap from PS4/Xbox One, and to make native 4K (2160p) gaming possible using the equivalent of midrange PC tech.

SK Hynix HBM and AMD/Nvidia GPU roadmaps

That Nvidia roadmap is a year old, may get updated next week at GTC 2016, we'll see.

 

[spwolf]

Double the gpu power and a new CPU isn't a fundamental hardware change? It's an upgrade and the Sony will focus all of it's efforts on getting you to buy it, they wouldn't do this if they thought it was fine for everyone to not get this and just stick with the PS4.

I can't believe people are actually even in support of making consoles like cellphones.

More people will continue cheaper version than more expensive one... thats just common sense. If you believe Sony might tomorrow shut down complete Playstation business, be my guest.

As for the cellphones, we have 2 models - Apple that updates once per year and Android headsets that are updated twice per year. How is this the same as PS4K coming 3.5 years later, I am not sure... 1 or 1/2 =3.5?

 

[spwolf]

So would Xbox One owners get screwed over too on multplat releases in this scenario? I find it odd that with such a large install base with XB1/PS4 developers would start duping those games in favor of the console that will have a smaller install base for quite some time if not indefinitely.

apperantly developers will ignore everyone but new PS4K overlords who will likely sell maximum of 5 million consoles in 2017... they will just throw their companies down the drain and say F U to 60-70m userbase.

 

[Elandyll]

Let's step back and think logically about this. What you're describing is the best case scenario, right? Nothing changes and everything you were ok with/enjoyed is still there. There is a worst case scenario however that they could do things like 3DS did (since there's precedence) that certain games will only work on the new system. It is also possible that developers what to hit x graphics or whatever on the new console and due to time constraints poorly adapt it to the lower hardware which could lead to worse looking graphics or much worse framerates we currently experience since they now have to test two different setups and one would think they would prioritize the more powerful unit first. I'm not going to argue whether this will happen but you can't hand wave that it never could happen or that there's no downside to this when it's definitely possible.

Well, let's indeed step back and use both what was said (reportedly) during the presentation meeting and common sense.
Not sure why we would use 3DS though, not similar situations, markets or company.

First, in the meeting, it was apparently clearly said that PS4K optimized games would also run on PS4 (and before you or anyone jump on the "significant sacrifices", it has been amended, and I'm sure that a drop from 1080p60 to 1080p30 with perhaps a few less effects would indeed be described as significant by many). So no talk of exclusives (which clearly wouldn't make sense anyway).

Second, about common sense, which scenario makes the most to you?

- A dev having the "weaker" platform with a 55m+ install base as lead and targeting a satisfying common experience (1080p30 stable), knowing that the stronger one will improve from there and also be relatively easy to scale being an iteration, not a new platform

Or

- Targeting baseline (1080p30) on the strongest hardware, knowing you will be likely to either have a shit show on the weaker hardware, or drop specs so much that the F-up would be obvious to all?

When (actually IF) we ever see a 1080p30 "barely hanging there" PS4K game and its PS4 version at 900p30 struggling, then I'll call BS.
Until then, I call overreaction.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

You will get the versions you would have gotten regardless.

It´s not like they are going to make the PS4 versions somehow run worse just to fuck with you.

You keep saying that but you don't know for a fact. Games aimed for that 2x GPU power will look and run like shit on regular PS4s.

I doubt for a single second that they are aiming for 1080p60 upscaled.

Much like what happened with this generation, people expected next gen to be 1080p60. They just used that extra power to make prettier looking 1080p30 games.

 

[GlamFM]

You keep saying that but you don't know for a fact. Games aimed for that 2x GPU power will look and run like shit on regular PS4s.

They will be aimed at the largest install base. Developers like selling their games to as many people as possible.

 

[MchugN]

You keep saying that but you don't know for a fact. Games aimed for that 2x GPU power will look and run like shit on regular PS4s.

They'll look like shit compared to the superior version or they'll look like shit compared to what games look like now?

 

[Raide]

They will be aimed at the largest install base. Developers like selling their games to as many people as possible.

Developers also like to have more power to do more and prettier things. Install base is not the only reason. Some developers like to push and given that extra power, they would logically target that and scale down.

 

[JustenP88]

Developers also like to have more power to do more and prettier things. Install base is not the only reason. Some developers like to push and given that extra power, they would logically target that and scale down.

PC exists...